2:48 PM
@JamesRyan how do you figure that I'm publicly saying I think my work is better than theirs. I'm not at all. I am concerned privately that that may be the case, but I never say to anyone that I think my work is better. I explained my internal reasoning here so that people would better understand my perspective and concern. Even then, it isn't that I expect my work will be better, but that I am concerned it will be
-2
In lieu of any answers that have really fully addressed the question I'm trying to ask about getting a discussion back on track from a professional photographer being out of control, I did want to share what I've come up with as my way to avoid this problem entirely in the future. Previously, I ...
I didn't interfere in any way. I am a professional who knows what does and does not interfere with a reputation SPECIFICALLY built on not getting in the way. I know many here don't want to accept that, but I did nothing to interfere with the photographer.
The fact is I'm passionate about wedding photography. It matters a lot to me and it matters to me that my friends and family have good photos. I can't turn off seeing moments that the hired photographer has no shot of or is not getting well. This is a major source of stress that prevents me enjoying an event, so my options are to call them out (which makes conflict) or simply take a moment to capture it myself when I notice it as a guest and can do so without interfering.
You seem to only want confirmirmation that your view is correct when actually it is wholely unreasonable. The hosts have picked that photographer because they have seen their work and they trust them. Offer someone better, be there in a working capacity, or let them do their job. Photography is artistic, there are multiple ways to cover it, there will be plenty of moments that they get that you miss. Learn to turn off.
@JamesRyan - I think maybe I see where you were coming from now. I was not clear enough about what I would actually be working out with them. Do you still believe that it is unreasonable? If so, please do hop in chat. I would really, seriously, like your feedback, but that isn't exactly what this question is about and comments are not the place for discussion.
2:50 PM
3:11 PM
hey @JamesRyan thanks for stopping by. did my response on your answer make sense? I'm wondering if part of the confusion is just a miscommunication about what happened and what I was asking about
3:54 PM
@JamesRyan replying here again, simply because I don't want to extend the comments further, but I do agree on the number of photos too. In general, I take less unique images as a guest than most guests. I know exactly what images I'm looking for and focus on getting those. I do end up with a higher image count at the end of the night than most guests, but that's because I often shoot in more limiting situations, so I'll shoot some pretty aggressive bursts to make sure I get a good shot
for example, on the end of the dances, I turn my flash off to avoid interference during the hugs/kisses
generally only one or two of those comes out sufficiently not blurry and if I'm very lucky, I catch one of the photographers flashes as actual good lighting
if I was covering a wedding of that length professionally, I'd have about 2300 to 2600 photos roughly covering many many distinct images. Instead, I shot about 500 photos covering about 35 distinct images of the couple and about 100 to 120 personal interest shots that have no meaning to the photographer
@user2989297 I was using a higher end kit than they had, but that's also the same kit I use for any casual photos. The only time I shoot with my smartphone is if it is a total throw away image or I don't have the time to get to my 5D before the moment passes
I guess at that point, it is basically a toss up between my ability to not focus on the photo taking (by using a camera that is natural and second nature to me) or trying to use something that will be difficult and frustrating vs the photographer feeling insecure for some reason. I still don't really see how simply having good gear says I don't trust the photographer if I'm shooting like a guest. It just says I'm someone who likes to take photos and wants my own memories
which is really the truth of the situation. It is also true that I don't trust the photographer, but not because I really don't trust them so much as because I'm paranoid about anything that can go wrong
1 hour later…
5:21 PM
From my perspective, as a person getting Married, with a vendor in the family (Bride's Father) we made the decision to use someone else for our own reasons. If you showed up at the wedding with even a point-and-click camera we would just ask you to leave. They chose a different professional, you should not even bring a camera, if your that uptight about it. Let them enjoy their day. Let them have it their way.
1 hour later…
6:30 PM
@coteyr for what it's worth, if a family member asked me, I'd actually decline unless they had no ability to get anyone else
I really, really don't want to be a professional photographer at weddings of close friends or family
but I also can't relax if I don't take some photos unless I really know the photographer myself and even aside from that, I really prefer a few photos for myself that wouldn't be of interest to a professional. Are you planning an entirely offline wedding and asking no guests to take photos or would you just specifically restrict someone from taking photos simply because they know what they are doing?
Also, comparing food to photography is a bit unfair too. Everything else you described isn't really artistic work and/or can't be done without added costs, so it doesn't make sense. But lets say I did have a backup cake in my car and didn't take it out unless the bride got the the reception hall and absolutely hated the way the cake came out
sure it isn't practical to make a backup cake on that possibility since it would be a waste if it wasn't used, but guests take photos
so I get some good ones and if (and only if) the bride or groom complains about the official photos, then I offer what I have
it is slowly improving with better quality of reviews and such, but portfolios can be very misleading and it's far more common (and far more permanent) for people to be unhappy with the photos than a venue or food
if the food is bad, you'll remember that the DJ was good and forget about the food. If your photos are an eyesore, you have to look at them for the rest of your life
now, that said, if my friends said that they really didn't want me to shoot any, I'd honor that for them, but I've never once been asked that. The closest I ever came was my sister was worried that I would hide behind the camera and not be in any photos, but I explained why and how that wouldn't be the case and then she was enthusiastic about it too
7:15 PM
@AdamDavis hey, can we continue in here. I would like to hear your thoughts and I did try to clean up the question a bit too
btw, I tweaked the question a bit further to try to narrow in a bit. I was still a bit emotionally charged when I wrote it and wasn't honestly expecting the backlash it got, though I can kind of understand it after re-reading my initial question phrasing from a position that didn't have the extra details that are in my head
*"I know exactly what images I'm looking for and focus on getting those. "*
*"I'll shoot some pretty aggressive bursts"*
*"...professionally, I'd have about 2300 to 2600 photos... Instead, I shot about 500 photos"* (ie, you "cut back" to 20% to 25% of your normal take)
*"I was using a higher end kit than they had"*
*"I'm shooting like a guest"*
*"I'll shoot some pretty aggressive bursts"*
*"...professionally, I'd have about 2300 to 2600 photos... Instead, I shot about 500 photos"* (ie, you "cut back" to 20% to 25% of your normal take)
*"I was using a higher end kit than they had"*
*"I'm shooting like a guest"*
7:28 PM
You are close to the family, which means you'll be in many, if not most of the "important" shots. Your camera has a relatively loud shutter noise. You chose to bring it up only during the "important" parts, when the other photographer was also trying to get a shot - a shot that included you without your camera. It must certainly have been a very frustrating experience for them.
and my camera only goes up if I see every working lens at the time and none can possibly have me in them
It's quieter, but not "only a foot or two away in a quiet room" quiet: youtube.com/watch?v=Rup3T6j_r9s
At any rate, I see you feel you've gone above and beyond the call of duty in avoiding the ire of the photographer, and are still surprised that they are irritated. The push back is people telling you that you're wrong, and you simply aren't accepting it. I don't know what to say other than what I've already said.
7:43 PM
@AdamDavis let me ask a different question then. The main reason I'm resistant to the idea that I was somehow interfering is that I've done this exactly the same (or even more aggressively) at over a dozen weddings of close friends and family. In every other case, the photographers have actually commented on how refreshing it was to have someone so good at avoiding causing issues
and actually thanked me, if not asked for my contact info (though sadly in those cases, it was outside my areas that I work)
As a professional, don't you usually spent such "down time" planning out the next sequence, discussing things with your seconds and the wedding planner/officiant/DJ/etc? You might give a guest a little bit of time, but I'd expect you have better things to do than spend 5 minutes discussing the reasons why another off-duty photographer's actions are causing problems.
7:54 PM
Perhaps you've never come across this in the world, but professionals who do a lot of work often find as they get busy, that it's easier to work around a problem, and assure the problem that they are not a problem than it is dealing with them and trying to educate them.
7:59 PM
@AdamDavis I'd settle for something as simple as "you are going to take our sales away". I've got a reputation of being invisible and not being in the way. Just about any other reason would have been ok. She chose the one I know isn't possibly correct unless it was just that her second never tried the shot
I think a real reason I'm a problem is needed before they ask a guest to stop taking photos when guests are being allowed to take photos
2 hours later…
9:43 PM
@AJHenderson "... I want to know how to get her to calm down and talk respectfully, professional to professional..." By also being hired to cover the event, and by having insured that the other photographer was aware of this in advance. If she's been hired to cover a gig, and someone else shows up with pro gear shooting like they are a pro that she was not made aware of in advance she's not going to see you as a pro. Even if your name is Walter Iooss, Jr.!
10:07 PM
Actually the only reason I haven't up voted your answer is that I disagree that the pro can stop a guest from shooting unless they've cleared that with the client before hand, but other than that I agree with your answer. I know I would never dream of pushing something on a clients guest that I wasn't absolutely sure the client would back me on
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