/dev/chat - 2015-03-30

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2:12 PM

1

A: How to take variables from another Makefile in shell script

Make can read a makefile from stdin, so you can give it a here document that is a makefile. Here, it includes your kernel makefile and adds a new wildcard target, %.var (which assumes you don't have any files or other targets that end in .var, of course). showvar() { make -f - ${1}.var <<'EOF' i...

... Wow, that's a neat solution. Wish I'd thought of it :-P

2:44 PM

Hey @derobert.

Hey

3:00 PM

So, survived the taxes thing?

@FaheemMitha Yep. Amazingly, nothing went wrong this year. Except for the form my mortgage company failed to post online... had to search a while to find they did indeed send me a paper one

3:22 PM

@derobert do things usually go wrong, then?

umm in my /etc/apt/sources.list why do I have % at the very last.

[$] cat /etc/apt/sources.list [20:51:01]
#### testing #########
deb http://http.debian.net/debian/ jessie main contrib non-free
deb-src http://http.debian.net/debian/ jessie main contrib non-free

#testing-updates, previously known as 'volatile' (only after jessie is released)
deb http://http.debian.net/debian jessie-updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://http.debian.net/debian jessie-updates main contrib non-free

at the last non-free there is a %

if I do file /etc/apt/sources.list I get the following :-

[$] file /etc/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list: ASCII text

sorry [$] file /etc/apt/sources.list [20:55:12]
/etc/apt/sources.list: ASCII text

@FaheemMitha any ideas ?

@FaheemMitha Oh yeah...

Forms sent to me (from employer, or financial companies) are wrong. Or missing stuff entirely.

But it all appears right this year. Need to give it a final review before filing, but other than that...

@shirish Ummm... did you type a % there? What happens if you delete it?

@derobert , nope I didn't type the % there. If I open it in a GUI text-editor (like leafpad the % is not visible)

so dunno from where the % is coming from.

it's only when I do a cat that the % is visible.

@shirish how about cat -v /etc/apt/sources.list ?

even in nano the % is not visible.

even with cat -v /etc/apt/sources.list the % is visible.

3:36 PM

Odd... how about xxd? What does it show the % as?

umm... what's xxd ?

Hex dump tool.

If you don't have it installed, I'll figure out the syntax using od

derobert - I don't have it installed and it doesn't seem to be in debian.

derobert - there is xxdiff but that seems to be a diferent tool altogether.

@shirish It's in vim-common ... but let me figure out the od syntax

sure, I do think though that I have xxd installed as well.

the last line/dump it says is this
0000380: 6e2d 6672 6565 n-free

$ xxd /etc/apt/sources.list - that was the command I tried.

3:40 PM

Oh. Ok. That % is your shell prompt or something—the last line is missing the trailing newline

So that's why you're not seeing it in the editors—it's not something extra there, it's something missing.

derobert - ohk... So probably something due to zsh.

If you used vim, it'd tell you [noeol] in the status line. At least if you have the status line on.

derobert - aha, haven't used vim or emacs frankly, am not a developer (at all).

Anyway, a quick echo >> /etc/apt/sources.list (making sure to get append >>) will fix it.

derobert - thank you for sharing that, I made a blank new line, saved it and then did a cat again, this time the % is not there.

@derobert think did the same, but yours would have been faster method :)

3:44 PM

od -tx1 /etc/apt/sources.list is apparently the od line I'm looking for. Or close enough.

haven't used hex dumping tool ever, dunno the use-case for them (except if something is closed-source and trying to reverse-engineer it) that's the reason I guess most FOSS developers would be using (graphic drivers) , probably blackhats as well when trying to hack at some place/s .

@shirish hi. sorry, was afk

Did @derobert fix your problem?

@FaheemMitha no issues, yes @derobert is/was extremely helpful :)

@shirish Hex dumping tools are great for figuring out what is really in a file. Like we just did.

@derobert That must be a drag.

3:49 PM

@derobert - would need to spend some more time with them to get some more understanding as to how they are useful and how should the output make sense.

@shirish yes, Anthony knows everything, and more importantly is willing to help.

nice :)

@FaheemMitha Not everything! For example, I didn't know people were still using dump: unix.stackexchange.com/questions/193402/backup-of-a-nas

4:17 PM

@derobert well, perhaps they shouldn't be?

I'd guess not.

4:54 PM

@shirish does deity.gov.in/sites/upload_files/dit/files/… actually mean anything?

And do you know the background of this?

Faheem you read the news at well, cool.

well, I also don't know what to make of it. Section 7 is/seems to be troublesome otherwise seems good.

@shirish I got it via the Debian India ml. Via Suji Sunny.

yup, it was announced at other places too and the same issue has people worried

Clause 7 :Exception -

"However, in certain specialised domains where OSS solutions meeting
essential functional requirements may not be available or in case of
urgent / strategic need to deploy CSS based solutions or lack of
expertise (skill set) in identified technologies, the concerned Government
Organization may consider exceptions, with sufficient justification."

Any idea how this came about? Yes, Section 7 seems like a loophole the size of a motorway.

@shirish I forget, do you do actual Debian consulting in India? If so, are any of your clients from government?

I think there are similar things appearing in South America, but those seem to have teeth.

@Braiam any idea about SA?

I do quite a bit, but mostly private, with govt. it's too much hassle and too much corruption.

4:59 PM

@shirish You do paid Debian work?

yup, a bit.

mostly installation, trouble-shooting that kinda thing.

@shirish Ok. And other OSs, presumably.

@shirish For small companies, I'm guessing.

and consulting, in debian though it's all voluntary.

yes.

Do you have problems getting them to pay? I think you (or someone else) said that is an issue in India.

Probably an issue elsewhere too. :-)

"in debian though it's all voluntary." Not sure what you mean.

@FaheemMitha mmm... no... technically the caribean is neither SA, CA or NA just caribean

5:03 PM

in mean in debian.org, putting up issues in debian, making mini-debconf's etc.

for small companies not so much of an issue, sometimes there may be an issue but then that is more to do with their expectations and ours (just like any other business).

@shirish Ah, Ok. You do paid Debian work for people, but you are talking here about work for the actual project?

@Braiam Not really the point. I was asking about FOSS govt provisions in your region. Are you familiar with them? I think South America has a few now.

Though I don't know of a definitive source.

@FaheemMitha ah, no, none

@Braiam I'm guessing the DR doesn't have one. It's hard to believe India has one. In any case, I predict it will be completely ignored. That's usually the fate of sensible laws in India.

@FaheemMitha correct, with people paid work, with the project voluntary work, I like it as well :)

@shirish ok

@shirish ok

5:09 PM

@FaheemMitha agree with the bit on sensible laws in India, LOL, sad but true :(

@shirish :-)

Crowley had been extremely impressed with the warranties offered by the computer industry, and had in fact sent a bundle Below to the department that drew up the Immortal Soul agreements, with a yellow memo form attached just saying: "Learn, guys."

That Pratchett/Gaiman collaboration.

@FaheemMitha if that is supposed to be a hyper-link I can't get it.

It's true. MS shrinkwrap warranties make interesting reading.

@shirish No, there was no link there. But that's from "Good Omens", if you are not familiar with it.

@FaheemMitha no idea what you are talking, is it a movie or a drama TV-series.

@shirish A book

And a radio adaptation.

5:19 PM

@shirish Neither. It's one of those now obsolete things called books.

But primarily a book.

People used to do this weird thing called "reading".

It was when you would stare at a lump of dead wood for hours.

lol, ok. Well, I do love books, I did buy a handful recently, am one of those obsolete people :P

But it is not so popular in the 21st century.

I know, I know :P

5:20 PM

@shirish Don't mind me. I'm just being a little bitchy.

@terdon And not yet a film.

Unfortunately. I'd like to see that.

@terdon What, the film version of "Good Omens"?

Yeah, if it were well done anyway.

Pratchett and Gaiman haven't been so popular with HW. Probably not enough explosions and too many words.

Plus HW doesn't really get humor.

BTW, HW == Hollywood. There has been some confusion on that score.

@terdon what are European policies on free software these days? What is the EU position? We were just talking about some new Indian thing.

I don't really know.

5:26 PM

@terdon ok

@terdon seems Gilliam wanted to do it. That might have been interesting.

Good Omens: The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch (1990) is a World Fantasy Award-nominated novel written in collaboration between the English authors Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman. The book is a comedy about the birth of the son of Satan, the coming of the End Times, and the attempts of the angel Aziraphale and the demon Crowley to avert them, having become accustomed to their comfortable situations in the human world. A subplot features the growing up of the Antichrist, Adam, and his gang, and the gathering of the Four Horsepersons of the Apocalypse. In 2003, the novel was...

@FaheemMitha Ah! Yes indeed!

Didn't happen though.

Maybe Gilliam should steal some money from Marvel's next superhero film. Or he could ask Stan Lee, nicely.

@shirish There must be a story behind this announcement/paper/whatever it is. There are some quite active free software activists in India. Maybe they have been at work.

@FaheemMitha I think probably the best person to answer that would be Venky Venkatesh Hariharan of former Redhat fame, see flossexperiences.wordpress.com/2015/02/22/…

I wish we had recorded his keynote but that was not to be :(

5:41 PM

@shirish Do you know if he was involved, or are you speculating?

@shirish keynote where?

@FaheemMitha speculating atm, but is possible as he routinely talks with GOI.

Oh, and do you think this will make any different to free software consultants in India (like yourself)? Work wise, I mean.

@FaheemMitha that keynote was at minidebconf IIT-Mumbai, about couple of months back.

@shirish ok.

@shirish Oh, I see.

for people who have financial bandwidth it would make a difference for sure.

5:43 PM

Venkatesh came to the minidebconf?

for small-time people like me, probably not so much.

yes, he did. We invited him :)

@shirish financial bandwidth?

@shirish Oh! Heh.

the 6 months waiting period between execution and getting the money+ being able to share some with your customer (bribe).

@shirish that's financial bandwidth?

Might make a difference to Red Hat India.

that is at least my definition for it.

it has multiple meanings.

yes, middle-level organizations like Redhat would stand to gain from it, for sure.

5:46 PM

How is your friend Praveen doing? He told me he was quitting his job with Red Hat to start his own consulting business.

Yup, he did and he has.

He's down south, in Kerala doing his own thing.

Maybe I should buy some RH india stock. :-)

We are planning to do a mini-debconf in Pune in couple of months.

@shirish Do you know what he is doing? He used to live in Pune, right Did you know him from before?

that would not be a bad idea, keep a horizon of more than couple of years though.

5:47 PM

@shirish what's not a bad idea?

@FaheemMitha we know each other going back some 5-6 years or more.

@shirish Ah, Ok. I only met him once, but he seemed like a nice guy.

@FaheemMitha buying RH India stock with 2-3 years of scenario.

@shirish there does not seem to be a corporate entity such as RH India.

he is, a bit too nice for his own good .

5:49 PM

@shirish yes, I can imagine.

@FaheemMitha have no idea m8, do know that RH is listed in NYSE, dunno if it's listed in BSE or NSE.

@shirish I can't find anything. So probably not.

@FaheemMitha ok, afk. Going to make chai, bbiaw.

@shirish Ok. Take care.

2 hours later…

7:56 PM

@FaheemMitha sorry, was busy with blogging flossexperiences.wordpress.com/2015/03/31/… - hopefully it helps people and in turn helps the community as well.

@shirish httpredir.debian.org

that's the official replacement for http.debian.net

oh, didn't know that, when did that happen.

Fairly recently, within the last few months.

Last time I checked, it didn't even have a web site there explaining it. Now finally it does.

@derobert, do you know of a mail which announces that, would update it now then if there is a link with such a mail, as well as update my own /etc/apt/sources.list and try that out.

@shirish Not sure where it was announced. Let me check the obvious place (d-d-a)

8:01 PM

sure, going there myself as well :)

hah, check http.debian.net ... look what it tells you to use now. It's the same person, and same codebase, BTW.

Just hosted officially now.

@derobert - forgive me, but that seems to still state to use http.debian.net

@derobert, bah, my cache was giving me a stale webpage

@shirish Odd. Refresh? Other than that, must be mirror-desync... mine actually says the new one

just doing F5 , gives the new info.

@derobert - crossed fingers, updated my /etc/apt/sources.list, now updating the archive, hopefully it will work.

@shirish Same code base, so should work basically the same.

8:07 PM

@derobert, know that, now just need to hunt where and when the change happened, I'm sure a mail would have happened then.

@shirish I don't see one. Nor could I find any announcement on Google.

Maybe email Raphael Geissert and ask...

same here, am going to mail to robert and see if I can find more.

8:31 PM

@derobert - I know it's a longish read but if there is anything else you would like to point out, would be happy to correct/add to it.

the post is mainly for students who would be taking part in a mini-debconf being held in Pune in couple of months.

2 hours later…

10:53 PM

@shirish I didn't read through the whole thing, just FYI.

@derobert ohk...

Looking at it again now.

thanks :)

sudo apt-get source netspeed ← no reason for sudo there, AFAICT

that'll also silence that warning

or just use svn co to get the source (in that case)

that'll also let you know if there is unreleased work already done

finally, installer testing on a VM is somewhat useful, but bare metal testing is I'd guess far more likely to find bugs

also probably want to point to the release notes debian.org/releases/testing/releasenotes

now is also a good time for people to contribute to the release notes. That's also something anyone can do, don't need any programming or packaging experience

ok, finished reading it

11:12 PM

hmm... ok all of those are valid points, I didn't use svn co because for a newbie he probably wouldn't know svn co and more importantly wouldn't know where the repo sits.

ah yes, do agree that bare metal testing is much better than testing in VM, so probably should reverse the advise given.

11:34 PM

@shirish well, tracker.debian.org/pkg/netspeed will tell you where the repo is. Or apt-cache showsrc netspeed | grep Vcs

true, both true.

@derobert do you know/remember the command to only listing contents of a commit id/number in svn ?

just like in git it's $git show commitid

@shirish svn diff -c REVISION gives the diff. svn log -c REVISION gives the log. Not sure if there is something exactly like git show

@derobert it seems both of those don't show me what got changed. I cloned the netspeed applet (from anonscm.debian.org) the last commit is 44192 which says :-

r39018 | jbicha-guest | 2013-07-28 09:51:50 +0530 (Sun, 28 Jul 2013) | 2 lines

use canonical Vcs-* fields

svn log --diff -c REVISION is closer to git show

$ svn log --diff -c 39018 svn://anonscm.debian.org/svn/pkg-gnome/packages/unstable/netspeed
------------------------------------------------------------------------
r39018 | jbicha-guest | 2013-07-28 00:21:50 -0400 (Sun, 28 Jul 2013) | 2 lines

use canonical Vcs-* fields


Index: debian/control
===================================================================
--- debian/control      (revision 39017)
+++ debian/control      (revision 39018)
@@ -21,7 +21,7 @@
                libiw-dev (>= 28~pre9) [linux-any]

right, wonder than why I run svn info, it gives Revision : 44192.

[$] svn info [5:02:04]
Path: .
Working Copy Root Path: /data/shirish/Games/netspeed
URL: svn://anonscm.debian.org/svn/pkg-gnome/packages/unstable/netspeed
Relative URL: ^/packages/unstable/netspeed
Repository Root: svn://anonscm.debian.org/svn/pkg-gnome
Repository UUID: db0db5de-e4c8-0310-9441-90abf70311f7
Revision: 44192
Node Kind: directory
Schedule: normal
Last Changed Author: jbicha-guest

anyways thanx.

11:44 PM

well, revision is repository-wide. Note all of pkg-gnome is one repository

So all the revisions after 39018 are elsewhere in the repository

oh, I think -v will show just the file names, not the diff

@derobert but as far as patches are concerned, don't think just having subversion cuts it, for that they would need to download the source and see the patches directory.

cancel that. it seems the patches are also put into the svn

see r27451

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