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slm
1:17 AM
@derobert - you around?
 
1:34 AM
@slm yeah, sort of. At home watching a not very good anime...
 
slm
I need LVM help
I have a server who's HDD is dying, I attempted clone it disk-disk using clonezilla
that seems to have worked but now I'm stuck with a error when I try to do lvm vgscan -v from a centos 5 rescue disk
says it's finding all VG's
then tries to open /dev/hdd and it fails with "read-only file system
/dev/hdd was the device assigned to the disk when I did the cloning from /dev/hda I believe
I suspect I need to change this on the actual LVM partition but do not know how
 
@slm odd... What's the device now? And is that one in the lvm config file?
I think there is an lvm cache as well...
 
slm
when I boot it using CentOS 5 rescue DVD it shows up as /dev/hda
yeah there's some sort of cache but I'm unfamiliar w/ this aspect of lvm
 
Seems like it shouldn't be there on a rescue disc anyway
 
slm
where exactly is the cache? On the actual LVM disk/vg?
 
1:43 AM
I should grab my laptop, chat on the phone is sub optimal. And no lvm manpages...
I think the cache is stored on the filesystem.
 
slm
any help would be extremely appreciated. Need a win
 
Have you tried the obvious cheat, and just cp the device file, so you have a hdd?
 
slm
no didn't think of that
there is one on the rescue disk already
 
Read only filesystem error is weird, too. strace might tell something useful.
Yeah, I mean create an hdd with the device number for hda. Or whatever.
 
slm
it's not available via the rescue disk
 
You could grab a livecd as a rescue disc.
 
slm
when I run lvm vgscan -vv I see it scanning for VGs and it shows a list of everything and when it gets to /dev/hdd it has a size for it and then when it opens it it fails
any particular one you have in mind for a rescue disc?
 
Odd, maybe the lvm manpage will say where the cache is, or how to disable it...
 
slm
I was using the centos 5 install disc
 
I've always just grabbed an Ubuntu disc for that...
Or a Debian install disc, though that'll suffer the same lack of utilities.
 
slm
1:53 AM
let me get a ubuntu disk. I also have the original HDD unplugged at the moment, I wonder if I should reconnect it?
I'm confused by the lvm vgscan -vv output. It shows /dev/hdd's size at 8986304
I believe that's the size of the original /dev/hda
 
No idea. Also... How ancient is this to still have hda instead of sda?
 
SAS?
 
slm
it has both
sata + ata
The os is on the ata since that's what I had when I built it
 
wait.... it's one interface per section of disk?
 
slm
no the MB has both interfaces
 
1:57 AM
I thought even IDE with libata showed up as sda
 
slm
it's centos 5, not sure
I've always seen it as /dev/hd*
@derobert - how do you go about cloning LVM devices?
 
bets is a weird bug
 
slm
I thought I'd done this before but it's been so long I cannot be certain
 
Seems like copying should work...
It'll have duplicate id's and such, so you'd not want them both plugged in, but...
 
slm
yeah that's what I thought, it shouldn't matter as long as the original HDD was removed
I"m about to just scrap and do a clean install and then copy files over directly
getting fed up w/ this
no patience for it tonight
alright I'm just going to re-install centos and then rsync everything over
thanks for your help
 
2:31 AM
@FaheemMitha why was that pinned?
 
2:56 AM
 
 
5 hours later…
7:56 AM
@Braiam No idea. And by pinned you mean starred, I presume.
 
 
11 hours later…
6:51 PM
Who here speaks English as a 2nd Language?
 
@eyoung100, english is not my mother tongue.
In that case if english can be considered as 2nd Language, I speak English as 2nd Language.
 
@Ramesh Are you offended when Native English Speakers like me edit your posts. (Hypothetically) Read the Comments Here: askubuntu.com/questions/571412/…
 
@eyoung100 According to US college admissions people, me.
 
@eyoung100 No not at all.
 
@Ramesh I'm trying to come up with an appropriate response to the Don't touch my English Comment...
 
7:04 PM
@eyoung100 sorry dude, that was a rude response from the OP towards you.
 
@Ramesh I think so too, so as an Editor now, here, and later there, am I supposed to keep a list of people who dont like their english corrected?
 
@eyoung100 No. There are always people who do not wish to be corrected even if they are wrong. But we are not doing these corrections for the OP but for the community. So, just ignore such baseless comments and let us continue the good work towards the betterment of our community :)
 
@Ramesh I agree but he rolled it back... I, over in the AU room too, asking advice
 
7:20 PM
@eyoung100 if he rolled it back, I'd drop the matter. It happened to me once. The vast majority of people don't respond. I do a fair amount of editing. Though mostly minor grammar and typo fixing.
 
@eyoung100 I see no wrong in your edit. And in fact, it is approved by other users in AU (which says your edit is correct and valid). So, better notify some mods in AU.
 
@Ramesh Notify that about what?
 
@FaheemMitha, I felt the comments were unwarranted for.
 
@Ramesh Oh I've raised it there, even to the point they invited him to the chat room lol
 
You mean
And do not touch my original English please. — swift 50 mins ago
? I'd just drop it, personally.
 
7:23 PM
yeah
 
@FaheemMitha Yes, look at the difference between his English and mine... I just wanted advice on how to handle it. I corrected it because the answer was correct, not to punish him. And correctnes validated @Ramesh statement about the good of the community
 
@eyoung100 Some people don't want to be corrected. So, let them be.
Fortunately they are rare. I think I only ran into one person who rolled back my edits. And, like others here, I've made hundreds of edits.
 
@FaheemMitha True
 
Does this qualify as an answer?
 
7:39 PM
@eyoung100 At some point, you give up and just flag it for moderator attention.
@Ramesh I suppose so, minimally. It could certainly be improved some (e.g., with a better description of the program OP wrote).
 
@derobert I left a nice Comment... never thought of flagging it... ill do that now
 
@Ramesh Someday I'm probably going to leave an answer like that to unix.stackexchange.com/questions/68345/…
 
@derobert Never got an answer, huh?
 
@FaheemMitha Well, I looked too, I don't think there is such a tool. I half wrote one, haven't ever gotten around to finishing it up.
 
@derobert When you finish it, you can answer your question.
 
7:52 PM
Yep.
 
I didn't realise the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man was specifically invented for the Ghostbusters movie till now. How embarassing.
 
Does /proc/net/tcp qualify as an answer for this question?
 
@Ramesh Well, if you added some code to read the file, maybe. Though that isn't really a file for that purpose
 
@derobert, yeah. Of course, we need an already established tcp connection and this is just to answer the OP's question.
He needs to know if there is any file. I don't know any other way other than ifconfig and ip addr show.
 
Yeah, I don't think they're actually in /proc or /sys. And strace -e open -f /sbin/ifconfig and strace .. ip -4 addr ls don't show one
 
8:11 PM
@gilles - If people who try to answer your questions misinterpret your (incidentally not particularly specific and clear) instructions, don't get mad at them for coming up with a solution that doesn't meet your needs. To downvote their well-intentioned answer is a hostile act -- it's not a normal reaction, for sure. — Mico 9 mins ago
Wow, that's not at all the kind of reception I was expecting from TeX - LaTeX
(especially given that the answer contradicted a very explicit requirement in the first version of my question)
 
8:33 PM
@Gilles TeX prides itself at being friendly. BTW, I don't see Mico's comment, so I presume he deleted it.
 
@FaheemMitha I flagged it, maybe a mod removed it
 
On of the high rep users, Andrew I think, even made a sort of policy statement in Meta some time ago, saying they discouraged downvoting. And most people seemed to agree with him. Especially the high-rep users.
@Gilles Yes, maybe. You downvoted the answer? How would anyone know it was you?
 
and the consequence is an answer with several upvotes, but that directly contradicts a core requirement of the question
 
Wonder where that statement from Andrew is. I don't remember exactly.
 
@FaheemMitha no prize for guessing it was me… the downvote came within minutes of the question posting and I commented at about that time
 
8:36 PM
@Gilles True. But TeX likes upvoting. Like I said, they're friendly. Which is no bad thing in a hostile world.
@Gilles I see.
 
@FaheemMitha there's something wrong with the correlation of downvote = rude or upvote = friendly, you are either right or wrong, the voting is nothing personal towards you
 
@FaheemMitha TeX - LaTeX has the lowest dv/uv ratio of the network:
 
@Braiam Hmm. I dunno. It can come across as unfriendly. Though I guess neither you or Gilles think so.
 
tex                 5.74  0.06 0.010453
craftcms            3.52  0.04 0.011364
tridion             4.45  0.07 0.015730
gardening           4.64  0.09 0.019397
genealogy           5.19  0.13 0.025048
that's the bottom 5, here's the top 5:
 
@Gilles Unsurprising. I don't think I've ever been downvoted there. Though I may be mistaken.
 
8:41 PM
webapps             2.84  0.54 0.190141
meta                7.95  1.57 0.197484
wordpress           1.20  0.25 0.208333
politics            3.87  0.83 0.214470
islam               3.30  0.91 0.275758
this excludes deleted posts, so it depends to some extent on the propensity of deleted posts (especially low-scoring closed questions) to get deleted
 
@Gilles Can you interpret the cols, please? I've seen these before, but I don't remember what they are.
 
unix                3.12  0.14 0.044872
at rank 30/126 (where 1 = downvotes least)
@FaheemMitha site name, average upvotes per post, average downvotes per post, $3/$2
data as of last August
 
> 21 million upvotes; 3.2 million downvotes

So, for each 7 upvotes, there is at least one downvote. Cool.
 
@Gilles Thanks.
 
^ from the blog @Gilles
(I hope they excluded Community)
 
8:43 PM
@Braiam I suspect they didn't: why would they?
and that would be presumably including deleted posts
 
Community cast a downvote for each spam/offensive flag
 
and also for VLQ posts that get closed or deleted
 
that would skew very bad the numbers
 
@Braiam while downvotes may or may not be unfriendly in themselves, there is definitely a correlation between downvoting and friendliness on the network. As measured by other, perhaps less tangible, criteria.
And TeX is definitely very friendly. Short of following you around and offering to do your work for you, it is hard to imagine how they could be friendlier.
 
@FaheemMitha They (well, two people) could refrain from insulting someone for downvoting
 
8:48 PM
@Gilles If you mean the Mico comment, yes, that was a little uncalled for. I don't do it. I don't criticize other people for doing it. Was there someone else too?
 
> Whoever downvoted this answer: Unclear instructions are no justification for contempt!
(also now deleted)
 
I think TeX should aim for friendly, not Stepford Wives.
@Gilles Hmm, yes, that's also a little uncalled for.
contempt? good grief.
 
@FaheemMitha He might have a point if my original question had been ambiguous, but it wasn't
 
Is web scraping from stack overflow sites on google allowed?
 
@Gilles Ok.
 
8:50 PM
and even then contempt was out of line
 
For instance, I searched what is j at end of email? in google and I get the english.se result in a textbox.
 
@Ramesh you mean to put on other sites? I think the license is CC, isn't it?
@Gilles yes, "contempt" is a bit much. I wonder what he was thinking.
Still, perhaps better than some sites, that practice the reverse with enthusiasm.
 
@FaheemMitha, google gives results from stack overflow sites in a textbox. Is that reasonable?
 
@Ramesh yes
why you think is not?
 
@Ramesh Oh, I misunderstood you, maybe. I'm not sure what you mean. WHat is a textbox?
can you give an example?
 
8:53 PM
@Braiam Isn't it a case of data scraping?
 
@Gilles do you use TeX regularly? And if so, then LaTeX, I presume.
 
@Ramesh no...
 
@FaheemMitha search for what is j at end of email in google and you will see what I mean.
 
they always has been scrapping
otherwise, how would they know that those pages have the keywords you want?
 
@FaheemMitha google.com/… The first result is in a TextBox
 
8:54 PM
@eyoung100 Oh, that.
I guess that is Google trying to be helpful. Or something.
 
@Ramesh is pointing out that while the search result is valid, sometimes the answers given here are so long they wont fit in the box
 
56
Q: Is Google doing something new with this site's data?

SammayeI just saw this in my Google result: You can even give feedback as to: What is this and is it something new or has this been viewed before?

 
@FaheemMitha I used to back when I was a computer scientist. Now that I'm a developer, not so much.
 
@Gilles I see.
 
I have to use Word a lot. I hate it.
 
8:57 PM
@Gilles I can imagine.
 
@Braiam wow, thanks.
 
My previous boss was a Word fan, and a my-way-or-the-highway attitude. My current boss has a whatever-gets-the-job-done attitude, so I do use LaTeX sometimes.
 
I generally dislike all word Processors. But I specially hate proprietary word processors.
@Gilles Why not most of the time?
 
@Giles As A developer myself the customer base has no idea what we do unless we use Word, and I hate it too
 
TeX is less than perfect. Programming in it is a hair-raising business. But for the kind of thing it does, it is the only game in town.
 
8:58 PM
I actually prefer Word slightly to OpenOffice. It has fewer minor annoyances and no more major ones, apart from having to run on Windows.
 
@Gilles Oh
 
@FaheemMitha If I'm co-writing a document with someone who only knows Word, I have to use Word.
 
@Gilles I see. You not tried converting people, then?
 
Word is boring. I had to do my thesis in word only and it was painful.
 
And I'm worried that if I leave the company, no one will be able to maintain my LaTeX stuff.
I've used pandoc quite a bit recently. It was easy to learn from me because I'm fluent in markdown, but even for someone who isn't, it's pretty straightforward.
 
9:00 PM
@Gilles you use latex to automatize documents?
 
But it's limited.
 
oh, documentation
 
@Braiam I write quite a bit of documentation (design specs, API descriptions, etc.)
It's not fire-and-forget like writing a paper. Someone has to update the documentation when we add new features.
And of course there's the body of existing Word documentation that will stay in Word because nobody has the time to rewrite it
 
Basic LaTeX isn't that hard to work with. Unless one throws programming into the mix.
Since I've been spending time on tex.sx, my documents have become more and more complex. Though I still have only a shaky idea how things work.
 
@FaheemMitha did you use latex for your dissertation work?
 
9:05 PM
@Ramesh I did, yes.
Most people at the mathematical end of the sciences do.
tex.sx is a pretty good resource. It's now easily the best TeX resource on the planet. Nothing else even comes close.
Maybe one day I'll actually learn how to program in TeX.
 
9:32 PM
Dammit, the guy posted a second answer that looked promising at first glance, but at second glance I don't see how it could possibly work
 
@Gilles You could use LyX. That keeps much of the nice features of LaTeX while giving an easy enough UI.
 
@derobert Yuck.
@Gilles Just politely tell him why it doesn't work. :-) Check it first, of course. They're pretty helpful over there.
 
@FaheemMitha Really? Curious what you have against LyX. I use it to write the (fairly long at this point) 'how to build all our systems' document...
 
The main problem I have is that I usually don't understand their solutions. Then I camp out in chat and ask silly questions.
@derobert Well, yuck may be overstating it. But I just think it is rather limited. Maybe Ok if you really have no interest in TeX/LaTeX and just want to get something that works. But you cannot do anything even slightly powerful or custom via LyX.
@derobert I'd have thought you would write LaTeX directly...
 
@derobert I don't want the UI! That's my main annoyance with Word for technical specs. The output is ugly but I don't really mind. But the UI-centric approach makes it impossible to do things in a repeatable way.
 
9:41 PM
@FaheemMitha Well, you can insert raw LaTeX into the documents. Which you have to do sometimes...
 
@derobert I know. But does the combo work smoothly? Does LyX cope well with macros?
 
e.g. I write the documentation of an API. In LaTeX I define an environment \begin{definefunction}{name}{parameter list} description \end{environment}. Then I specify how to style it, and I add the name to an index.
 
I experimented with LyX briefly some years ago. I think it has been a while. I've not tried it recently.
@Gilles Fancy.
 
In a visual editor, I'd have to: set a style for the description paragraph, set a style for the function name, set a style for the parameters, all of these separately. And add an index entry for the function name.
for
every
damn
function
 
@Gilles Yes. You'd have to do that in Word (well, maybe you can actually accomplish that with scary enough macros). But not with LyX.
LyX is not a WYSIWYG editor.
 
9:45 PM
I'm curious what LaTeX styling for functions looks like.
 
@derobert Oh? How would I do that in LyX?
If there's a decent way to do it, that might be an acceptable compromise between me and my not-going-to-learn-LaTeX colleagues
 
@Gilles You'd add it to the list of environments, then you'd select that environment from the menu, and enter in the parameters... (or of course set a keyboard shutcut, to use it often)
 
@derobert Oh! Does LyX support arbitrary TeX? At least in the header of a LaTeX document?
 
@Gilles Yes.
You can add arbitrary LaTeX in the header, or actually inline anywhere you want.
 
@derobert thanks for that, I'll try it out
 
9:54 PM
@Gilles you'll want to check out Document -> Settings. "Modules" is a way to make reusable bits of LaTeX to insert into your documents. "LaTeX Preamble" is where you dump raw LaTeX code to put at the start of the document.
Insert -> TeX Code lets you put arbitrary LaTeX anywhere in the document
Obviously, with both of those, you're responsible for not breaking it (e.g., by syntax errors, forgetting to close your environments, etc.)
 
come on, SF is already at -16, and math at -15
oh, and one more for this one please
 
10:17 PM
@Gilles You should submit an ad for that post, "help defeat Server Fault - vote me down"
 
@derobert so LyX works well for you? Have you done complicated stuff using it?
 
@FaheemMitha Not crazy-complicated, but it works well for normal things.
 
@derobert Ok. I find plain LaTeX works well enough. What advantage does LyX provide?
 
@FaheemMitha Less work to get started. You can open it up, pick things from the menu, and produce a LaTeX document. I prefer to pull it out for small things, even when I don't need to worry about anyone else ever having to edit it (e.g., a letter).
 
@derobert I see. I find I do a lot of cut and paste myself. So you use LaTeX for letters? So do I. Any special document class?
 
10:59 PM
@FaheemMitha No special class. There is one that LyX already has in the menus. It works well enough.
 
@derobert not the regular letter class, then?
 
@FaheemMitha I don't recall which one it is...
 
@derobert Ok. I use the standard letter class, though the cognoscenti look down their noses at it.
 
It probably is the standard letter class I use.
But its very easy to pick a different one in the menu. LyX has something like 5 or 6 it supports out of the box.
 
11:17 PM
@derobert Oh, Ok.
 

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