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12:20 AM
@FaheemMitha ouch.
I've just created ; do we like it?
 
Bootloaders of the world, unite. You have nothing to lose but your chainloads!
2
 
\o/
 
Test
 
@BadrHari please don't.

Sandbox

Where you can play with chat features (except flagging) and ch...
 
12:35 AM
?
Did it really bother you that much, eh?
 
it's annoying
and I wish you had gone to the right place
 
No one's even talking here... and I already tested it here
 
...
@strugee mm... can stand as the only tag in the Q?
yeah, no, grub is already fine
 
@Braiam possibly
feel free to remove it if you want
 
suddenly feels destructive
 
12:43 AM
heh
 
you have os-prober?
 
on the GPT drive? yeah
 
add the output to the question with the drive connected
for me grub installed in different disks chainloads automagically
 
which drive?
 
the one you are trying to chainload
 
12:50 AM
so you want me to plug in the drive (not boot from it) and run os-prober?
 
yeah
 
ok
ugh, something's really messed up. I gotta reboot
 
@Gilles who we have to poke with a stick to get this implemented?
 
Michael
I think
ok, this is gonna take a while. sorry
 
don't worry, I normally take my time too
 
1:03 AM
@Braiam two mods
 
the help page too?
 
slm
Can we just close this already?
0
Q: setting up a Linux based cluster

Don UI would like to set up a cluster that has the ability to compute in parallel. (Think Hadoop using AND simulating a CentOS or Ubuntu server). I would like to get the traditional experience of setting up and managing a cluster, so AWS and other cloud is out of the question. I have a budget of $1,00...

he edited it but it's like wheels spinning in the mud.
I really don't feel like doing someone's shopping list
 
we just need one more
 
puts the last nail
 
slm
Thanks.
I told him to take it over to SU
We could help but I'm tired
I just did 2 back to back 300 days
Trying to catch Gilles
Does anyone else have this problem with NM that l0b0 does?
1
Q: NetworkManager no longer auto-connects on login

l0b0I've configured nm-applet to run during X login, and I've connected to my home Wi-Fi network many times. Recently it no longer tries to connect to the network after logging in. In the connection's "General" tab "Automatically connect to this network when it is available" is checked. The wired ne...

I do as well w/ hidden SSID networks
Another issue I never thought to ask about 8-)
 
1:18 AM
a. I haven't had that problem, no. but my networks aren't hidden.
b. BSSIDs are useless. you may as well turn them off, all they do is provide a false sense of security.
 
actually hidden bssid's is more a security risk
 
@slm holy crap
@Braiam really? how so?
 
slm
@strugee Have to stay ahead of graeme 8-)
plus I had 2 weeks where I was super busy and didn't have much time, trying to catch up
@strugee Yeah they have it turned on at work and I showed them in like 2 secs you can find the hidden SSID using kismet
total joke, not worth the annoyance of having it off
 
@strugee starting by "is not even defined in the spec", and that post that I found in sec.se but I can't find now
 
I mean, yes, they don't work. it's trivial to sniff BSSIDs (and in fact, Windows 8 does that by default - no joke)
but I dunno that they're an active security threat as @Braiam seemed to be implying
 
slm
1:25 AM
30
A: How risky is connecting to a hidden wireless network?

Thomas PorninThe risk here is in believing that a "hidden SSID" changes anything to the security. A non-hidden SSID means that the router will shout at regular intervals "hello everybody, I am Joe the Router, you may talk to me !". A hidden SSID means that the client machine (not the attacker's machine) will ...

 
btw, there's also the issue that you can without knowing leak the network password
 
@slm that's what I was saying but I wasn't counting "false sense of security" as an active threat. I guess we have different definitions.
@Braiam with BSSIDs?
hadn't heard about that one
 
slm
@strugee I've never heard that you're more vulnerable with it off, just the false sense as well.
 
there was a really good Q on SU about this, lemme find it
133
Q: Is it really possible for most enthusiasts to hack people's Wi-Fi networks?

kvhadzhievI heard from a trusted computer security expert that most enthusiastic users (even if they are not professionals) using only guides from Internet and specialized software (e.g. Kali Linux included tools) can break through your home router security. People claim that even if you have: strong ne...

 
@strugee with honeypots and if you configured to probe every other time
 
1:30 AM
@Braiam ? I don't understand, sorry
 
the client broadcast "hey joe, are you there?" at set intervals, and attacker can come and identify himself as "joe" and steal your password
I think that's the gist of it
 
@Braiam ah, right
1
Q: Why is it said that SSH key authentication is less vulnerable than ssh password authentication when SSH is exploitable?

jostenI'm not asking about password vs key authentication. I've seen a few times (and even Amazons AWS) says that even if SSH has a major vulnerability that key authentication would make such an exploit less vulnerable. But, what if there is an exploit with how the keys are verified; isn't this just ...

 
Gilles can correct me if I'm wrong
 
assuming that OP isn't just misquoting someone, that should turn into an interesting Q&A
@Braiam no, that sounds about right
 
slm
1:50 AM
@strugee My attempt to answer it
0
A: Why is it said that SSH key authentication is less vulnerable than ssh password authentication when SSH is exploitable?

slmI think what you're referring to is what's called the challenge-response model. With this approach the key pairs are never exposed in a manner that they could be sniffed off the wire, as is the case with sending a password over the line. And so it's deemed much safer because of this fact. One of...

I tried to keep it high level, didn't really want to get into the semantics of the whole thing, but just enough to show the diff.
 
yeah
basically "passwords are sent in plaintext"
I think OP was probably just misunderstanding
ah, looking at that itsec question, it's not sent in plaintext
hmm
I get it now
that's where the "when SSH is exploitable" part comes in
 
 
1 hour later…
slm
3:27 AM
Ohh the coveted gold linux badge
 
4:12 AM
@slm \o/
I may be part of the reason it took you so long...
I aggressively remove
 
4:23 AM
 
5:20 AM
@Gnouc please don't answer questions like this:
-1
Q: I want a script to do following simple task?

SAMMy input is : a a l a c g b c ... and so on rando alphabets. A command or a awk statement which will give me: a-1 1-2 l-1 a-3 c-1 g-1 b-1 c-2 basically counter for all alphabets and initialization when a particular alphabet starts.

while I appreciate you trying to help, answering a bad question like that creates a pattern for the asker that says that he can just dump random questions here and get people to write stuff for him, which we won't
this guy is somewhat of a Help Vampire right now; we can train him out of it but if you reinforce the behavior nothing can be done
 
@strugee FYI, chat ping only works on people who have been in chat at some point. Possibly somewhat recently.
 
@derobert ah, ok
grr, I'll ping him on main
there
 
 
3 hours later…
8:03 AM
@slm congrats
 
8:16 AM
@strugee Not exactly what I had in mind.
 
8:44 AM
@strugee by a fellow 15 year old.
 
9:06 AM
@mods please delete this question unix.stackexchange.com/questions/125765/…
i can't able to do, because it contain answers.
 
9:49 AM
gOOD MORNING
is there any difference between those two command ?
find "`pwd`" -size +20M
#or like this:
find $(pwd) -size +20M
 
10:25 AM
@Kiwy according to the bash man page there is only difference when the command substitution contains special characters. Since "pwd" doesn't the answer is no
 
 
2 hours later…
12:40 PM
@Kiwy you didn't quote the $(pwd) one so it will make a difference if the directory has IFS characters in the name. I actually changed this in your question earlier. Also, backticks are now considered deprecated and many advise against using them at all - wiki.bash-hackers.org/scripting/obsolete
 
@slm congratulations! You're the third to get a gold tag badge.
@Kiwy you can change $(pwd) to $PWD. And like Graeme says make it "$PWD"
and I know we have a question on backticks vs dollar-parenthesis
 
1:18 PM
@slm Nice! Well done :)
 
1:54 PM
@Graeme - what was that question about line increment on stdin?
 
@mikeserv do you mean this one? unix.stackexchange.com/questions/125649/…
 
Yeah. Check out this answer in a few minutes.
It took me awhole day for like seven lines.
thanks, by the way
 
2:10 PM
@mikeserv no prob. That would surely be have one of life's crueller moments if you spent so long on it then couldn't find the Q.
Also, don't be stealing all the rep today, am currently 44 away from the 10k milestone :)
 
slm
2:23 PM
@Graeme hang on I'll push you over
@Graeme - you're 10k now, congrats
 
2:43 PM
You can have it, @Graeme. This question is already a day old - I won't get anything off of it.
 
@slm thanks!
 
slm
@Graeme - congrats that was a quick10k 8-)
 
I'm just gonna go ahead and hit save now while I'm still working on it. @slm's not a bad guy if you lay off the caps lock, I've noticed. Pretty ffriendly after all.
 
slm
@Graeme - I knew you were close and I'd normally push users over but knew you had a 100 rep coming from a bounty but why wait 8-)
@mikeserv - I try to be friendly and helpful 8-)
 
@slm there's still a few days to go on that one I think.
 
slm
2:47 PM
@Graeme - yeah like 3. I finally threw in the towel on it. Was searching high and low for an actual tool to do what you did but none exists that I could find.
 
i know you do @slm. There are thousands of points below your little icon irrefutably attesting to that fact.
0
A: How do I break up a file like split to stdout for piping to a command?

mikeserv_linc() ( ${sh-da}sh ${dbg+-vx} 4<&0 <&3 ) 3<<-ARGS 3<<\CMD set -- $( [ $((i=${1%%*[!0-9]*}-1)) -gt 1 ] && { shift && echo "\${inc=$i}" ; } unset cmd ; [ $# -gt 0 ] || cmd='echo "no args!"' ; echo printf '%s ' 'me=$$ ;' \ '_cmd() {' '${dbg+set -vx...

 
@slm it really is something that is missing though - a good 'tell me about this device' tool
 
slm
@mikeserv in case it wasn't obvious 8-)
@Graeme definitely, that's what was irking me all weekend while i was trying to figure out an alternative.
@Graeme - nice and you got another 200 rep day. Keep collecting those and you can get the 150 days @ 200 badge.
 
@slm not so many people got the one for 50, never mind 150
Just you, Gilles and Stephane
 
slm
3:10 PM
@Graeme - agree the 50 is good to have but most ppl don't have the breadth of knowledge to get 200/day. You and Patrick are 2 that seem to be able to A a variety of Q's so I would encourage you to chip away at the 150. 8-)
 
@terdon a reminder to respond to my email. I need written permission to add an acknowledgement, afaik. Also, let me know if the wording is Ok.
 
3:34 PM
@slm no doubt I will get it eventually. But for now I think a break for a few days is in order. Especially since we are currently having a rare run of days where it is actually sunning in Scotland
 
slm
@Graeme - Don't stay away too long. 8-)
 
@Graeme whohoo! Well done :) It's very deserved, you've been giving some great answers lately
@FaheemMitha Done, sorry I hadn't seen it
 
@terdon Read it. Thanks.
And replied too.
0
Q: Is it necessary to ask permission before including someone in the acknowledgements of a research paper?

Faheem MithaI had the impression that obtaining written permission before including someone in acknowledgements was required. Therefore, I just wrote to someone asking for written permission to include him in the acknowledgements of a paper, and he said he didn't think is was necessary. I don't actually reca...

 
3:50 PM
Hey guys look at h=the very bottom of that answer again if you would - thats what I thought was cool.
 
@FaheemMitha heh, let's see. I have been included in the acknowledgements for about 10 papers now and have never before given written confirmation.
 
hi
i need help about lazarus on linux
some one can help me?
 
@terdon Hmm. I've definitely seen that requirement written somewhere. maybe it is not universal though.
 
@Gustavo usually it is better to post a question rather than asking in chat. There is more space to explain your problem. If it is something very trivial, sometimes chat is easier.
@terdon thanks :)
 
@terdon on one paper i acknowledged a bunch of people on the #postgresql channel, and it wound up being a bit of a business. I had to track them all down. fortunately they all knew each other.
 
4:03 PM
@slm doubt it, I'm way to much of a Linux geek for that.
 
@Graeme are you going to try to get a tan?
 
@Graeme
 
@terdon they all seemed quite surprised too. I got the feeling it had never happened before.
 
@FaheemMitha ha, I don't know about that. Though, in the interests of science I will happily conduct an experiment to see if it is possible.
 
@Graeme for some reason this makes me think of Doonesbury. And Zonker.
 
4:06 PM
 
Though I don't suppose there are any Doonesbury fans here.
 
@Gustavo sorry, I have absolutely zero knowledge on Lazarus nor is Pascal one of my languages. Although generally I would say that you need to add more information to the question about what you tried and how it doesn't work (with error messages if possible).
 
@Graeme if we are looking at the same question, i don't see a reference to pascal.
 
@FaheemMitha don't really know Doonesbury at all
 
@Graeme Well, it has it's moments. Zonk was training to be a champion tanner at one point, as a recall. tanner == someone with a really good tan.
@Graeme what languages do you use?
 
4:18 PM
@FaheemMitha I googled Lazarus and found it was a Pascal IDE... I assume the code is Pascal, though I really wouldn't know.
@FaheemMitha C/C++ and Python mostly
 
@Graeme oh, i see. I actually didn't think people used pascal any longer. you never seem to hear about it.
@Graeme me too. though C++ reluctantly, and not if I can help it.
 
@FaheemMitha C++ can be a pain, though sometimes it can be nice. I once read somewhere that it is mad to use all the features. I have to say I agree...
 
@Graeme I've never found it nice. I have to agree with the pain bit, though.
BTW, I've heard rumors of people in the UK getting a tan. It is probably mythical, though.
 
@FaheemMitha generally using it in combination with Qt is what makes it up most of my "nice" experiences.
 
4:33 PM
@Graeme Ah. I've never used Qt. Isn't that was KDE uses? So GUIriffic, I suppose.
 
@FaheemMitha yes, KDE is based on Qt. There is a fair amount to Qt that is actually not GUI orientated these day, the portability and documentation are what really make it excel though. I think I have raved about this on here before though...
 
@Graeme I see. I don't recall any earlier discussions.
 
4:58 PM
@Graeme ever tried common lisp?
 
5:10 PM
@FaheemMitha never, once wrote a script for Gimp in Scheme though.
 
@Graeme ok. so you know scheme then?
 
5:26 PM
@FaheemMitha nah, just figured out enough to write that one script. Plus Gimp only uses TinyScheme which is only a relatively small subset of the real thing. My main takeaway was that trying to pick up functional programming 'on the job' isn't such a good idea as you really have to reorganise they way you think about writing code.
 
@Graeme Well, it depends what you are already used to. So, perhaps.
I notice michael doesn't seem to be in this room these days. how you contact him if you need to?
 
@FaheemMitha I take it you are an old hand at functional programming then?
 
@Graeme No, not at all.
I've been trying to learn CL in the last year or so.
It takes some getting used to. I think it would take a fair period of regular use to internalise it.
The main difficulty I've had is the lack of the expected markers that exist in other languages. A bit like trying to drive without road signs.
The other problem is that the existing free implementations have significant deficiencies, and development is seriously undermanned.
 
Clojure seems to be the Lisp that seems to be getting some good reputation these days. Have you tried that?
 
@Graeme Not really, no. I've played with it a little bit.
I'm not a big fan of building things on top of the JVM.
 
5:41 PM
@FaheemMitha Yeah, never been so much of a fan of anything Java related. There is a very cool new IDE for Clojure though - lighttable.com. It supports Python as well, but I haven't had much success getting all the features to work with it though. Not sure how it fairs with other Lisps.
 
@Graeme yes, someone asked a question about that the other day.
I've only ever used emacs/slime
 
ugh. Java.
spits
 
slm
@FaheemMitha It was strugee I believe.
 
@slm oh
@Graeme not in debian yet
so far, just an ITP. bugs.debian.org/736917
 
6:00 PM
@slm not me
someone (@terdon I think) posted it in chat and I commented on it but I didn't post anything on main
 
@Graeme you've seen this?
0
Q: Okular doesn't work any more

TimUnder My Ubuntu 12.04, Okular worke fine until I recently run apt-get upgrade. Now I can start Okular, but when try to open a pdf file, Okular just flashes and exits. Here is the output when I run it from the terminal: $ okular 1.pdf Got bus address: "unix:abstract=/tmp/dbus-42dKIwE1xj,guid=c6...

A stable release shouldn't be breaking libraries. Of course, this is Ubuntu.
4
I made the obvious suggestion - that he rebuild.
 
6:26 PM
$ echo '_ZN11KActivities16ResourceInstanceC1EmP7QObject' | c++filt
KActivities::ResourceInstance::ResourceInstance(unsigned long, QObject*)
can't read that bloody message without c++filt
 
@derobert translation?
 
But yeah, why is an LTS release removing a symbol? That's messed up...
@FaheemMitha Well, KActivities::ResourceInstance::ResourceInstance(unsigned long, QObject*) is the translation. That's what it'd actually look like in the C++ source code.
Changelog shows they pulled in a new upstream release
Although, that wasn't recently. So that's confusing.
 
@derobert Ok, I see.
@derobert anyway, the poster (Tim) could fix it just by rebuilding most likely.
 
Maybe. It'll either fix it, or error out if they actually broke API instead of just ABI.
 
He seems to somehow have got over 3000 rep by just asking questions. Quite impressive.
@derobert if the former, that would be pretty bad, even for Ubuntu
 
6:38 PM
It's more common than you'd think... there were complaints on meta.SO about people getting to 10k or even 20k via questions only
I think they may have limited the amount of rep you can get from questions only at some point
But Tim apparently asks pretty good questions, at least judging by the votes on them in his profile.
 
 
3 hours later…
slm
9:32 PM
@FaheemMitha yes I brought him up the other day. Seemed like an odd pattern of asking such a variety of Q's
 
@slm That's not so common, then?
 
slm
@FaheemMitha - I didn't think so but apparently it is more so on SO at least from the looks of deroberts comment
That pattern seemed highly unusual to me, esp. given the varieties of Q's
gilles didn't think it was that odd either
 
@slm Yes, there were quite a lot of questions - approx 200. And so in your experience people don't ask a large variety of questions?
@Faheem: It turns out that after I remove Okular and then dkpg from the deb file I created last time, Okular works again. I wonder how that can be because of some dependencies upgraded? — Tim 22 mins ago
Ok, that's weird.
 
slm
I hadn't noticed it in my dealings w/ SE
 
@derobert what do you think?
@slm I see.
Debugging segfaults really seems offtopic here. what do you guys think?
0
Q: Segmentation Fault on execution

user65800I am getting this segmentation fault (core dumped) error on excecuting my c++ program on Centos. I am compiling my code using g++. Everything was executing fine for hours. Suddenly, on executing the same executable I got the segmentation fault error. I did strace -eopen executable and got this...

Mind you, SO will probably be even less hospitable.
 
10:07 PM
@anthon @Gilles @Graeme thanks for the info, I will use $() now.
 
should we vote to close on the segfault question? what do people think?
 
@FaheemMitha in my opinion it's still on scope
also thank you for my resume last week
also in my opinion it is low quality
 
@FaheemMitha i'd call it in scope, but as it stands now it is unanswerable without someone hand-holding him to post something that can actually be used to answer the problem
right now I'd call it opinion-based because none of us can offer anything but a guess at what the problem is
:)
 
@casey I would call it low quality instead of opinion based, but I guess it's a matter of opinion ;)
 
@casey debugging a segfault long distance without the actual code would be pretty difficult.
Unless he can come with a MWE, but that sounds unlikely.
 
10:17 PM
@FaheemMitha agreed on the difficulty of actually answering his Q
 
segfaults are not the kind of thing i would ask help for, because they are so difficult to debug for third parties
 
compounded by his inability to give pertinent details
 
that too
anyone else thinks it weird that okular problem was solved by reinstalling? i would not have expected it to do anything.
 
Another weirdy here-doc one. These are my favorite:
0
A: Bash Function Decorator

mikeservI've already discussed the hows and whys of the way the below methods work on several occasions before so I won't do it again. Personally, my own favorites on the topic are here and here. If you're not interested in reading that but still curious just understand that the here-docs attached to t...

 
10:40 PM
@terdon well, the question got one answer, and a few comments, but no real concensus as far as I can tell. I think I'll just carry on asking for permission. It seems safer, and certainly more polite.
@mikeserv here-doc?
 
@FaheemMitha yes.
 
@mikeserv not sure what that means
 
cat <<HERE
you usually see it like that..
It's an inline-file
 
@mikeserv that's interesting, but complicated compare to the fact of replacing that repeated code by a funciton
 
You mean a function to edit the shell script? With regex or something?
It's not complicated at all either. cat <file
That's the exact same principle, only I write the file myself.
In any case - that's the question he asked isn't it? How to put them in all single function?
 
11:00 PM
@FaheemMitha I did once write this that sort of introduces the way I think about here-docs, if you're at all interested:
3
A: Bash Script getting stuck during execution

mikeservSo I have answered this before, but I found it and it sucked. Hopefully I'll do better here. Here's the short and sweet - a heredoc is basically a file streamed to a file-descriptor. Most people don't denote the 0<<descriptor and so you get it on <&0 stdin. ssh passes stdin to its invoked proce...

5
A: How to define similar bash function at once

mikeserv_gem_dec() { shift $# ; . /dev/fd/3 } 3<<-FUNC _${1}() { [ ! -e 'Gemfile' ] && { command $1 "\$@" ; return \$? } || bundle exec $1 "\$@" } FUNC for func in guard rspec rake ; do _gem_dec $func ; done echo "_guard ; _rspec ; _rake are all functions now." The above will ....

And that one's linked in the other answer, but - forewarning - it's really long. The first is probably more than enough for any sane person.
@Kiwy - one thing I use that here-doc function declaration for is something like python's lambdas or zsh's anonymous functions. It's pretty handy if you're the functional type.
 

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