/dev/chat

Braiam

12:29 AM

@derobert man, your life sucks :/

unix.stackexchange.com/users/prediction-data

overactor

12:52 PM

I hope no one minds if I advertise my proposal on area 51 a bit here

I think it's relatively on-topic

52

Open Source

Proposed Q&A site for questions regarding motivation, marketing, organisation and licences pertaining specifically to open source projects.

Currently in definition.

derobert

1:18 PM

@Braiam Don't worry! Today I get to repeat for etch and lenny.

And vi.se is 100% committed, wonder how long 'til beta starts. Must start thinking of vim questions...

Faheem Mitha

3:20 PM

Strange, very few questions today. Did everyone switch to Windows? Or maybe OS X?

I just realised that Ask Different and this site have significant overlap in theory. But I don't think I have ever seen questions migrated to AD from here. I guess in practice not many OS X questions are asked here, probably because of the existence of AD.

derobert

3:33 PM

@FaheemMitha Nah, we're all busy upgrading libc

Braiam

unix.stackexchange.com/questions/181583/… this doesn't seems a good question.. I mean, what I'm supposed to answer?

btw, testing was patched several days ago MUHAHAHAHA

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Upgrading libc?

Hmm. I didn't see any of the above activity till I reloaded this page. Does anyone else experience that?

The last comment I saw was

23 hours ago, by Braiam

so yeah, patch your systems yet again

And here I was wondering what happened to everyone.

@derobert Oh, you're patching old systems? Why are you running sarge?

@overactor I sense a certain about of balkanization going on. In 20 years SE will have 10,000 sites including sites for manga, anime, kite-flying, origami, and horse riding. I actually don't know why there isn't a site for some of those now.

I think Anthony should propose an anime site...

derobert

3:51 PM

@FaheemMitha Ancient telephony software. Same reason we're running etch.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert What about security issues? Can't the ancient telephony people rebuild their sw for more recent releases?

derobert

@FaheemMitha They may have... but upgrading requires us to change a lot of things too. And they're rock solid, so we try not to.

They're not really that exposed. But unfortunately DNS lookups is one thing they do...

E.g., on these systems even shellshock was irrelevant.

Faheem Mitha

@derobert oh

overactor

@FaheemMitha As long as there is a good community for it and the topic lends itself for a Stack Exchange style Q&A site...

Anime could likely work well.

Faheem Mitha

@overactor I guess.

@derobert there you go. ^^

I'm tempted to propose anime as a joke. Surprised nobody else has...

derobert

3:54 PM

It already exists.

Anime & Manga

overactor

yeah, anime and manga

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Yes, so I just discovered.

There are so many sites now I don't even know which exist.

overactor

Its stats look rather healthy on area 51

Faheem Mitha

777 days in beta. Wow.

overactor

There is a beta for coffee

derobert

3:56 PM

Faheem Mitha

Still in Beta, though. The anime site, I mean.

derobert

LOL, the VM has had a disc error on its CD-ROM drive :-P

Faheem Mitha

@derobert Haven't seen an etch prompt in a while.

overactor

@FaheemMitha beta takes ages these days

derobert

@FaheemMitha well, yesterday it could have been the sarge one

Faheem Mitha

3:57 PM

Now I forget which was earlier.

@overactor So it seems.

overactor

board and card games has been in beta for 1561 days

derobert

@FaheemMitha sarge came before etch

Faheem Mitha

@derobert oh

@overactor I didn't even know there was a site.

derobert

woody (3.0), sarge (3.1), etch (4.0), lenny (5.0), squeeze (6.0), wheezy (7.0)

Faheem Mitha

I think more people should commit to Health. The site, that is.

derobert

3:59 PM

Thankfully, no machines running woody!

Faheem Mitha

131

Health

Proposed Q&A site for medical specialists, students, dietitians and anyone with health-related questions

Currently in commitment.

Now, that's a site worth supporting.

Still waiting for the kite flying site.

Last commitment to the Health site was Jan 19th. Needs more advertising, imo.

Braiam

Jun 20 '14 at 0:40, by Braiam

WTH is "Craft CMS"?

Jun 20 '14 at 0:47, by Gilles

@Braiam one of several CMS whose existence I learned when they launched an SE site

Faheem Mitha

org-mode looks pretty cool. anyone here using it?

derobert

@FaheemMitha ** TODO: install vim … TODO: apt-get remove --purge emacs

I've used devtodo. Problem with a lot of those things is Windows folks have issues. Of course, there is Trello.

(Windows folks are, of course, always issues)

Faheem Mitha

4:31 PM

@derobert I don't care about Windows. In the immortal words of Dilbert: "here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a better computer". Of course these days you don't even need a nickel...

tomayko.com/writings/that-dilbert-cartoon

@derobert apt-get remove --purge == apt-get purge.

derobert

@FaheemMitha Yes, it is now... but I don't think apt-get purge has always existed.

No, just checked, it doesn't exist on the sarge VM

Faheem Mitha

@derobert It probably hasn't.

derobert

Or etch.

Faheem Mitha

4:46 PM

It's a bit of sugar someone added, relatively recently.

derobert

dpkg-buildpackage output is almost 60MB, over 100k lines, and its still going...

deostroll

5:05 PM

What do I do if I want to download a file, and shutdown computer in one go from a terminal...I can't exactly do wget <file> && sudo shutdown now. This will ask for a password, and kind of defeats the whole point...

casey

@FaheemMitha I use org-mode

Faheem Mitha

@casey How do you like it? See

1

A: Replacing columns in a delimited region of a file

If you were using Emacs 24.4, I might recommend doing this with rectangle-mark-mode (C-x SPC), kill-ring-save (M-w) and kill-region (C-w). With earlier versions, you could take largely the same approach by using CUA mode's rectangular selection and replacement tools. However, this is also pretty...

casey

@deostroll you could start the wget and then use sudo to run something like wait PID && shutdown, where PID is the process ID of wget.

deostroll

anyway I can immediately get PID of wget in a script?

derobert

@deostroll you could configure sudo not to ask for a password when running shutdown

Braiam

5:19 PM

@deostroll probably

derobert

@casey that would be hard, wait only works on your children

deostroll

14

A: How to get pid of just started process

What can be simpler than echo $!? As one line: myCommand & echo $!

What does this do? ^

echo $!

derobert

@deostroll some-command & followed by echo $! should give you the pid of some-command

deostroll

how to store that in a variable?

derobert

var=$! ... it's not special

casey

5:26 PM

@derobert ah yes, i overlooked that (and should have known better, because I know wait(2) well...). You could still do it, but it would be quite a pointless mess to make work

derobert

@casey yes, of course it could be changed to kill -0 polling...

casey

@derobert yes, my proposed solution wasn't optimal (or even good). If it had been an actual Q on the site I would have made sure it was helpful :)

derobert

Yeah. Building libc6 again, got some weird errors in the log (which, honestly, the build scripts ignored, so maybe they're fine... Will see if they occur again.)

(Also gave the VM more memory in case that was it.)

Braiam

5:51 PM

you know what would make your time worthwhile, @derobert? building on a live system ;)

derobert

@Braiam LOL, I'm pretty sure my VM is faster...

Faheem Mitha

6:11 PM

@derobert rebuilding libc is the sort of work I'd try to fob off on someone else.

casey

6:25 PM

emerge sys-libs/glibc easy :)

derobert

@casey yes, but you have to patch it first. But yeah, the actual build isn't that hard...

something like script -c 'dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us -sa' ../log

casey

gentoo also makes the patches easy. If I make a directory /etc/portage/patches/sys-libs/glibc and throw a patch in there it gets auto-applied by portage before building

derobert

Patching it wasn't hard either, it uses quilt

The harder part was the patch didn't apply cleanly, that was the only real work

Then its just waiting for a very long build to finish...

At least I only have to do that once. Unlike emerge :-P

(Well, twice, since I'm somewhat concerned by the weird errors it ignored the first time)

They are testcases, I'm guessing ones known to fail, that'd make sense for them to be ignored.

casey

I've been on glibc 2.19 forever though, so no need to rebuild or patch for me afaik

derobert

Yeah. Not going to try upgrading these ancient machines. Would have to rebuild the entire tel server stack...

Including finding new versions of everything to work with the proprietary Dialogic libs

And then do serious testing on them...

casey

6:34 PM

true, I only look after my own machines (4). Makes things a lot easier.

sometimes, though my problems are usually my own fault :)

derobert

@casey Yeah, much easier.

OK, seem to be getting the same errors on the second build, which is finally almost done. buildd log looks to have gotten them, too.

Amazingly there was a log for that old version still.

Faheem Mitha

6:55 PM

@derobert debuild -uc -us

derobert

7:09 PM

@FaheemMitha yes, that saves typing -rfakeroot, I suppose. And does a bunch of checks on the package that I don't really want...

Well, and I used the wrong version :-( ... so time to build again. Well, time to go to lunch.

(with the build running, of course.)

Faheem Mitha

@derobert and creates a build log automatically. and how do you know you don't want the checks?

Braiam

8:17 PM

@derobert Noooooooo! why?

Faheem Mitha

8:58 PM

@Braiam why what?

casey

9:09 PM

playing with link time optimization is sooooo fun...... :/

Faheem Mitha

@casey context?

casey

@FaheemMitha most things compile fine. some are a pain in the ass to get to compile and some just wont.

Faheem Mitha

@casey All true statements. Did you have a speciifc application? :-)

casey

@FaheemMitha yes, compiling everything with link time optimization of course

Faheem Mitha

@casey Ok. Still not very specific. Are you working right now?

casey

9:13 PM

where "everything" is the roughly 1600 packages installed on this machine

Faheem Mitha

@casey you're compiling your distribution with link-time optimization? is this some strange technological form of masochism?

casey

where I don't mind building 1600 packages because I also want debug symbols for most things

just curious as to the state of LTO with gcc 4.9 and if there is any improvement over normal compile time optimizations

a full rebuild only runs me 12-14 hours, so I can start it in the afternoon and its done before I wake up

not a big deal

Faheem Mitha

@casey i guess not if you are running Gentoo.

casey

its just a pain having to look at build logs of ~300 of the packages that failed to build and figure out which of the 4 fail cases took place and to put them in their corresponding piles and rebuild them with success

the biggest pain is that emerge -e world rebuilds everything but doesn't sort into dependency order, so some of the failures are due to out of order rebuilds. Normally doesn't matter but in this case it does

Faheem Mitha

I'm just impressed that a complete rebuild is even a practical possibility.

casey

9:26 PM

it helps to use a source based distro :)

Faheem Mitha

@casey it does.

casey

for rebuilds there is no fetching, its all already here

Faheem Mitha

@casey you keep the source around?

casey

I keep around the minimum to build my current install

and purge the outdated stuff at regular intervals

its roughly 10-12 gb of source at any given time

a bit inflated because some of my packages are "live" e.g. they build from git,hg,bzr,svn rather than tarballs, so having a git repo with full history cloned can take a bit more space than a tarball

but if you think that space is wasteful, let me direct you to my logical volume with 5 gb worth of debug symbols separated from their binaries. :)

Braiam

9:59 PM

wait, @casey gentoo is still using eglibc?

@casey you need debile!

Faheem Mitha

@casey I feel the urge to post an xkcd cartoon right now. I'll control myself, though.

@Braiam debile?

Braiam

10:24 PM

@FaheemMitha is a debian project trying to rebuild the entire distro using clang instead of gcc, it's capable of figuring out build dependencies and build them in order

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam first I've heard of it. Link?

Braiam

@FaheemMitha github.com/Debian/debile

Faheem Mitha

@Braiam Thanks.

casey

11:30 PM

@briam portage resolves build deps under normal operation.

And you can tell it to build using GCC, clang, icc, etc.

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