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7:15 PM
They usually spend their holidays in __________ mountains. in or on mountains @DamkerngT. @M.A.R.
 
I would say "at the". Definitely not "in" unless they're going into caves or something. (I'm not a native speaker though).
 
14
A: In/On The Mountains

Sydney'On the mountain' and 'on the mountains' means 'on top of' [EDIT: better explanation, 'on the surface of' - see comments below], like goats or trees or snow. One house can also be 'on a mountain' but not 'on the mountains' (unless it's a really big house!) 'In the mountains' means 'among/in betw...

 
ok
Thanks.
 
Yeah "in the mountains" makes more sense than "in mountains". I was too harsh on "in" at first.
 
7:36 PM
8. Q: Is he working?
A: No, he's on _________________ vacation.
NO ARTICLE
a
the
 
I would say that there's no article. You could say he's 'taking a' vacation or even 'the' vacation in some weird special case though.
 
@user62015 This kind of test could make your English worse, actually, IMO.
 
I agree.
 
I'm pretty sure a native speaker will think all the choices are correct, depending on the intended meaning or context.
 
7:51 PM
Yes.
 
Yes, on vacation is idiomatic, but if a student who takes this test walks away with the idea that the other two choices are wrong, I think the test is bad.
 
.com alert!
 
@DamkerngT. The test is always bad. Some tests are the worst
 
.com = I want to make money.
 
7:53 PM
Agree.
 
@DamkerngT. Yeah. Would you think that 'taking a vacation' is more common than 'on a vacation'? They might just have different meanings though.
 
So be careful with .com sites. (I'm not saying that all of them are bad, BTW.)
 
@DamkerngT. esp. ell.stackexchange.com
 
@Heihej Each would have its own use. I'm sure you can feel it.
 
@DamkerngT. Hmm, because it's more expensive?
 
7:54 PM
@M.A.R. Haha! :D
@M.A.R. Because they can't get .gov or .edu. ;-)
Or .org.
So, basically, .com = everyone.
 
Point
 
> Choose the correct (and most natural-sounding) response to complete each sentence:
This is bad enough already, IMO.
 
Well at least they say "most natural-sounding". They could just leave it at correct and it would be worse.
 
I don't think any well-regarded standardized tests will use "correct" this way.
 
I agree.
I have two questions
I always listen to____________ (radio/ the radio) in the morning.
I choose radio but it says the radio
 
7:58 PM
Hmm... I'm not sure, IIRC, it could be different on the two sides of the pond.
 
Okay.
 
"the radio" seems more natural to me.
 
Yes, me too.
 
Thanks.
 
I would choose "the radio", never the anarthrous version.
 
8:00 PM
Although it's a bit weird since it seems to be indicating a specific radio (machine) even when we're just talking about radio programs in general. Maybe it's an artifact from back when the radio was just a single channel or something?
 
@Heihej Yes.
 
Like it seems to be analogous to "I always listen to music" which clearly shouldn't have a 'the'.
 
Yet, Apple will get you to listen to Radio. :P
 
@Heihej The version with a would denote a specific vacation.
When you say it without the article it's more as if taking vacation is a single action or whatever.
I don't know if that makes sense. Or perhaps it might mean taking vacation days.
 
Hmm... taking vacation is weird to me.
 
8:04 PM
@userr2684291 in some sense yes. But what do you think the difference between "on a vacation" and "taking a vacation" is?
'Taking vacation' is weird. But maybe user2684291 was just trying to explain the meaning without the article?
According to dictionary.com there are two definitions:
"a period of suspension of work, study, or other activity, usually used for rest, recreation, or travel; recess or holiday:"
and
"a part of the year, regularly set aside, when normal activities of law courts, legislatures, etc., are suspended. "
 
@Heihej The usual phrase is take a vacation, but I don't think taking vacation is impossible.
 
Maybe an article invokes the first one, and the second one is used when there's no article.
 
time.com/money/4455911/millennial-workers-vacation-shame "and 30% said that not taking vacation was a way to show their"
 
Anonymous
@Hanaa Home by itself works as a preposition phrase. Traditionally, it would be called an adverb, but in post-Jespersen linguistics, it would be considered a preposition all by itself. That's why home ends up working as a preposition phrase by itself, much like We took the bus back to New York.
 
@Heihej When you say I'm on a vacation, that's a specific vacation you have in mind.
 
Anonymous
8:10 PM
In traditional grammar, prepositions had to have noun phrases as complements, so they didn't know what to call it and stuck the "adverb" label on it, because that's the label they used for everything when they weren't sure what it was. But it isn't like other adverbs, and it is like other prepositions. The only tricky thing is that it doesn't take a complement, so we call it an intransitive preposition in modern grammar.
 
@userr2684291 maybe. The previous sentence did have 'taking a vacation' though, so it might be a typo. I'm not saying it's impossible though. It just sounds weird to my ear. If you're a native speaker you know better pretty much by definition though :).
 
Anonymous
@Araucaria I would like to post an answer! I need a little time to convert my thoughts into answer format, though :-)
 
You'd usually continue it with in <some place>.
@Heihej I'm not a native speaker of English.
 
@userr2684291 the sense where "taking a vacation" doesn't refer to a specific vacation didn't occur to me at first though. It seems to be how it's used in the time article though, so I think you're correct.
 
Anonymous
Taking vacation sounds unusual to my ear. I think it might work with certain meanings, but it wouldn't mean quite the same thing as taking a vacation.
 
8:13 PM
Thirty-seven percent of Americans reported the number-one reason for not taking vacation was “a fear of returning to a mountain of work.”
It's not a typo. Google "taking vacation" -"taking a vacation".
 
Anonymous
At some companies, you can build up an allotment of "vacation" (or "vacation time") measured in hours or days, and then you can choose to take a certain amount of that.
 
(Because Google is stubborn.)
 
@snailplane do you think that "taking a vacation" is referring to a general vacation or a specific one?
 
Anonymous
And when I hear the phrase take vacation, the interpretation that occurs to me is using some amount of vacation time.
 
Anonymous
Like (made-up example): I have thirty hours of vacation saved up. I'm not feeling well, but I'll have to take some vacation next week instead of sick leave because I've been sick too often already, and I can't take any more sick days without going on disability.
 
8:15 PM
@Heihej I simply contrasted it with taking vacation. I wasn't making things more specific than that.
 
Anonymous
In this example I made up, I'm trying to use vacation as a non-count noun.
 
Anonymous
Whereas in take a vacation, vacation doesn't refer to using an amount of vacation time, but instead refers to an entire trip.
 
Yeah I think "vacation" without an article is talking about some span of time and with an article it's talking about a specific trip, at least in most cases.
 
@Heihej You can say taking the vacation. "Do I need to take a vacation? I really wanna take a vacation." ~ "Take the damn vacation!"
 
Anonymous
In userr's example, take vacation sounds fine to me but means "take time off of work", and doesn't mean "go on a trip to enjoy oneself".
 
Anonymous
8:19 PM
@Heihej We seem to be in agreement! Yay :-)
 
@snailplane I think so!
 
Anonymous
For what it's worth, I'm a native speaker of American English, and what I've been typing is just what my intuition tells me. I haven't attempted to confirm my intuition by looking through real examples, and I think vacation may be one of those words that is used differently in British English.
 
Anonymous
I can never remember exactly how vacation and holiday are used in BrE.
 
I'm not sure how useful coming up with explanations for all of these is. It might be that the meanings don't have any general rule and are just defined in usage. And english seems to be pretty flexible with leaving out articles.
 
Anonymous
I think the difference between the examples is because count vacation has a slightly different meaning from non-count vacation.
 
Anonymous
8:23 PM
The article is doing what it's normally doing, but the difference in meaning is probably specific to vacation.
 
That's interesting. I'm just going off my intuition as well. I have no idea what variant that should be placed in though. I'm not a native speaker, but learned English in Beijing at a British school, after only a year of actual teaching in Finland (so in BrE), but then immersed myself in mostly american media. So I can never tell which english I'm using.
Did you see this?:
"a period of suspension of work, study, or other activity, usually used for rest, recreation, or travel; recess or holiday:"
and
"a part of the year, regularly set aside, when normal activities of law courts, legislatures, etc., are suspended. "
 
@snailplane I wonder if the difference is still that different. I hope it is, though.
 
I think I can see this distinction between those two definitions (both from dictionary.com)
 
Anonymous
@Heihej The second meaning there had not occurred to me.
 
Sounds like the British usage.
 
8:25 PM
Pretty much.
 
Anonymous
I suppose that meaning is also possible with non-count vacation, although it isn't what I was talking about.
 
To me that sounds like the meaning that is invoked when there's no article. It's talking about 'a part of the year' as opposed to a 'suspension of work'.
 
Hmm...
 
We shouldn't take dictionary.com as gospel though. I don't even know who wrote it.
 
Anonymous
No, that is definitely not the meaning I was thinking of.
 
Anonymous
8:30 PM
And that is not the meaning in userr's example.
 
Anonymous
I would have to look through corpora to find an example that fits the "normal activities of law courts, legislatures, etc." being suspended one.
 
Anonymous
I don't think there's anything wrong with dictionary.com's definition there, I just think it's another meaning, somewhat different, that we hadn't discussed up to that point.
 
I suspect that the article omission will be extremely rare in this sense of vacation.
Except for on vacation, of course.
 
Yeah I think I didn't read the second meaning closely enough. It sounds like it's describing a legal concept now that I read it more closely.
 
9:01 PM
@snailplane @DamkerngT. Didn't you see my question?
 
@Hanaa On the main site? I'm sorry, I haven't looked!
Hmm... you didn't have any new questions on the main site.
Okay, after browsing through the chat log, I think it's still about the postpositive participle phrases, right?
I guess I can't explain when we'd use the votes required and when the required votes, except for generally the required votes would be more normal.
I can't explain why we do use the votes required sometimes, besides that would be the intended meaning (in that specific sentence).
 
@snailplane I've tried my best to explain and show research... here's hoping: english.stackexchange.com/questions/380674/…
 
My mind can only come up with "the votes required" putting more emphasis on the actual votes "the votes required to pass this legislation are hard to collect" vs "we have the required votes to pass this legislation" putting more emphasis on the requirement. I'm not at all sure though (I'm not sure how useful my musing based on my intuition is. I figure you'll just ignore me if you want to.)
 
9:16 PM
And this is why I don't ask questions on ELU. sigh
 
@Catija What? I don't see many problems except a dupe vote, which doesn't matter much anyway
 
@M.A.R. A downvote.
 
Well, that's ELU.
I need to sleep. Good night all
 
@M.A.R. Night.
And that was my point.
 
9:51 PM
@M.A.R. Nighty night.
@Catija Aww
If I remember correctly, those sentences (e.g., That that is is that that is) originated from a computational linguistic class. There must be a web page for it somewhere. Maybe that Wikipedia page has a link to it.
But compared to Wikipedia, my memory is much less reliable! :D
Huh? Someone just gave that question another downvote, I think, right?
 
@DamkerngT. Yup. :( Clearly, ELU has issues.
 
sad
 
10:10 PM
@DamkerngT. that that is is that that is not is not is that it it is
 
LOL
James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher
 
{imagine me posting the one with lots of buffalo-s} Buffalo buffalo.
 
Hehe!
 
11:11 PM
@Catija It seems so strange to me that that community doesn't want to go beyond the obvious "yeah, it's grammatical. But maybe not if grammar is about usage. You're not one of those prescriptionists are you?" Your question seems like a great opportunity to explore some of the more esoteric aspects.
 
@ColleenV That was what I was hoping... I thought that I'd put a lot of effort in, showed some good research. I find it amusing how they complain that the site's turning into single word requests - R - US and then they don't even respond positively to questions looking to really understand a usage.
 
SWRs are easy to answer - anyone can. Your question actually requires an expert not just an enthusiast (I think, I'm no expert!)
I wish there were an English equivalent of xkcd's "what if": what-if.xkcd.com
 
Me neither. I'm hoping that snailplane will help me out when she's up to it.
 
@Catija do you know off-hand if protecting a question prevents comments as well as answers?
 
@ColleenV It does not, I believe... You mean protecting in the sense that only users with 10 rep + can answer?
... as opposed to locking.
 
11:18 PM
Yeah
I don't really want to lock it though, but the “How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb?” question is getting a lot of stupid comments
because everyone loves to be funny
or try to be funny
 
Yeah, comments are still possible, if only because you have to have at more than 10 rep to comment anyway... though I've heard some mods complaining that protecting should block comments from users who don't have sufficient rep on site.... so even if you have enough rep to comment due to the association bonus, you can still comment.
 
Yeah I would like the association bonus to not count toward comments as well
Comment anywhere is 50 rep I think
 
I think Monica has an MSE request about it.
 
I will search - thanks!
 
40
Q: For protected questions, require local reputation to comment

Monica CellioQuestions are occasionally protected when they start attracting unwanted input -- because the question was on the Hot Network Questions list, because it hit Reddit, because it's about a hot-button topic that everybody wants to weigh in on... Protection allows a community to prevent some stuff tha...

I'm such an MSE junkie... though I haven't been spending as much time there recently.
Also... I apologize in advance for being a detractor.... enough so that the CM response uses it as a valid point.
 
11:23 PM
Hey, no need to apologize - disagreement is just grist for the mill that churns out excellent ideas instead of just good ones ;)
 
Yeah, well, as Jefromi has told me many times, don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
 
Well, people tell me that a lot too. In a lot of cases that old saw is just an excuse to be lazy instead of really think about something
 
Hm, I guess that's true. :) Often, if it relates to programming I sort of let it go at that point because I don't really have any sort of concept of how complicated it would be to make those sorts of changes as I'm not a programmer.
 
I am a programmer and I have no idea how complicated it might be :) As clients it's our obligation to ask for exactly what we want, and let them figure out if it's possible or the best way to do it. As long as we aren't saying "Just put another for loop in - what's the big deal?" I don't see the problem...
Anyone who hasn't seen the code has no idea how the best way to implement it would be.
 
Ah. Fair enough.
 
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