The Nineteenth Byte

@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC I'm not that old. Almost 19

12:17 AM

is anyone here familiar with 05ab1e

What's your question?

how would i set an element of an arry

arra

array

As far as I'm aware there isn't a way; you should probably be using stack manipulation of some form instead

@Adnan

What are you trying to do with it?

There might be a better way

im like

trying to

set

a value of an array in a for each loop\

Roght but I mean what is the for loop for? Also sounds like you should be using for each and pushing each value on the stack then wrapping that in a new array

12:32 AM

good idea

Actually probably would be better to use the global array

Can't type them on mobile but look at extended commands 7 and 38 in info.txt

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

@DJMcMayhem that was to betseg, but 0k

@Oliver you can edit your posts

Ik

ok

thanks @quartata

Np. Keep in mind though that a lot of commands vectorize over lists so you might not need to do anything at all depending on what you're doing

mınxomaτ

12:40 AM

So that happened: wikileaks.org/…

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

1:10 AM

@mınxomaτ this is evil...

mınxomaτ

@Shebang I though "hasParents" was a bit lame.

New Sandboxed Posts

0

Categorize the asymptotic behavior of a consumer/producer system Given two functions P(t) and C(t), output the correct category for the behavior of P(t)-C(t) as t goes to positive infinity: Ideal: P(t)-C(t) goes to 0. Stable: P(t)-C(t) oscillates, with the time spent as a positive value equal ...

Anonymous

Could you possibly take the debate commentary to another chatroom so that those of us who don't care to see it don't have to?

Sure :)

Anonymous

Thanks :)

Anonymous

1:19 AM

Bonus points if you move the existing commentary there :P

Stuff nobody wants to see

Uh, politics and debate, I guess

→ 17 messages moved to Stuff nobody wants to see

Woo! I finally used my sweet RO mega-move powers :)

Anonymous

You're the best :)

I sincerely doubt that ;)

Anonymous

(don't tell Dennis)

:O

Pythagoras Cup (Greedy Cup) filled with Mercury

1:26 AM

►

1:49 AM

@HelkaHomba (294,392,490) (98 * (3,4,5)) is pretty small at 1176, but not sure if smallest.

should my 2d esolang have mirrors?

Anonymous

@JonathanAllan It's the smallest with a,b,c < 500

should my 2d esolang only have mirrors?

how esoteric do you want it to be?

Your 4d esolang should have only mirrors.

1:59 AM

in terms of flow of control, not the entire thing, I meant

Laser input, mirrors for flow control. Nothing else.

Anonymous

@Geobits And rotations define the commands?

Uh, sure >_>

Anonymous

Now that gives me ideas

Anonymous

It would be like an unholy combination of Befunge/><> and Wierd

Anonymous

2:02 AM

You could define it in 3D by having "time" as a psuedo fourth dimension - flat mirrors "reverse the time direction" by making the laser go backwards

And half-silvered mirrors for threading lol

Anonymous

And some conditional mirrors for flow control

Anonymous

Ok yeah I'm going to make this now

:D

Anonymous

Brb learning quarternions

2:04 AM

I've forgotten most of what I knew about quaternions :/

Quaternions are confusing until you understand that they form a group and that's pretty much all there is to them.

Anonymous

And they're ideal for representing rotations

Yes.

Only if you don't like gimbal lock.

Anonymous

Of course not

2:05 AM

@Geobits That's what makes them ideal. :P

Anonymous

Though I guess a rotation matrix could do the same

Anonymous

Though since the only rotations would be right-angle rotations, quarternions might be a bit overkill

No forty-fives?

Nvm, I'm stupid.

someone ought to make a 3d or 2d language where there are multiple angles of rotations and it isn't on a grid

Floating point nightmare o_o

Anonymous

2:10 AM

Simplifying math is always good

Anonymous

Except I have no idea what symbols to use for mirrors with an in/out component

Any interesting double-slashes in unicode?

Anonymous

I'm aiming for ASCII only

Hmm. Y could work as a gate. Maybe something with X.

Or a T instead of Y

Anonymous

Y would be split/combine (depending on direction)

Anonymous

2:15 AM

X would be any-to-out

are lasers only cardinal?

or can they go diagonal?

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill Yes

what's the purpose of combining?

actually, its useful if it only outputs a laser if both sides hit it

That's what I meant by a gate

ok, then second question: are the lasers always going? Aka, do the lasers need to be combined at the same time?

2:19 AM

Continuous vs burst?

or can the second laser come 20 ticks later?

right :)

Burst could be tricky, but it would be interesting

with burst, you'd have to develop some sort of looping mechanism that would keep a burst in a cycle until its ready

actually, with spitters, you may be able to convert a burst into continuous

er, almost. You could make it continuous every other tick

Anonymous

The lasers will be continuous, just like lasers.

Well there are bursty lasers :P

2:23 AM

@Mego ?

Anonymous

Here's what I have for mirrors (first letter is src, second letter is direction):

Anonymous

/ : RD, DR, UL, LU
@ : RO, IL, OR, LI
_ : DD, UU
C : IR, RI, LO, OL
% : ID, UO, OU, DI
! : OD, UI, IU, DO
| : LL, RR
O : OO, IO
\ : UR, DL, RU, LD

O? I?

I?

@Mego @HelkaHomba, (294 392 490) is the smallest by sum.

Anonymous

2:24 AM

O is out (coming out of the screen), I is in (going into the screen)

Oh right, 3d

Anonymous

Not to be confused with O (the out/in deflector)

oh, this is 3D.

what happens if up into @

Anonymous

Actually 4D

2:24 AM

time doesn't count

Counting time?

Anonymous

Yeah, but time is weird and I haven't figured out how to work it in yet

also, you're missing 2 source directions

@Mego woah, the language Actually in 4d

@Mego Is that its name? Actually 4D? :P

Anonymous

2:25 AM

So none of those change the time direction

Anonymous

@Geobits Oh god no

Really 4D sounds better

Supposedly 4D

only 81 other primitive triples with smaller sum, none of which have multiples summing to less where each leg contains a 9 in base ten.

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill Which ones? I'm fairly certain that's all of the combinations of src/dest except for straight through (which would be space)

Anonymous

2:26 AM

Since it's a combination of Befunge and Wierd, I'm going to call it BeWierd

@Mego coming from Out or In

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill Look at it again.

you have 6 in directions, and 6 out directions

@Mego Is it actually called wierd, or is it weird?

weird.

2:27 AM

@Mego ah, so what happens if the in direction isn't listed?

Anonymous

@Geobits catseye.tc/node/Wierd

oh Wierd"

does the laser die?

Anonymous

There are exactly 6 cardinal directions in 3D

Anonymous

North, East, West, South, Front, and Back

2:28 AM

esolangs.org/wiki/Wierd

I prefer Up/Down for my 3D world ;)

right, but what happens if / get hits by a Back laser?

Anonymous

@NathanMerrill / : RD, DR, UL, LU

Anonymous

DR

oh wait

I mean Back

Anonymous

2:29 AM

Nothing

Stop or through?

so it passes through?

Anonymous

Yep

...oh I see Mego linked to catseye :)

Anonymous

@JonathanAllan Yeah I figured the website of the guy who wrote it would be a better resource :P

2:30 AM

:)

do mirrors that don't list an effect for some direction block or allow passage through for those beams?

Anonymous

@Geobits Blockers are different from mirrors, and will have their own set of characters

so effectively, its: / : RD, DR, UL, LU, FB, BF

Anonymous

There's also redirectors, that redirect in a constant direction regardless of source direction

><^V ?

Anonymous

2:30 AM

@NathanMerrill Yes, but I left off the passing-straight-through parts for brevity

right :)

Anonymous

@Geobits Yep, and whatever I choose for I and O (I might repurpose O to not mean I/O mirror)

Anonymous

Which I decided to do - G is now II, OO

Anonymous

And I decided instead to use the direction letters (LRUDIO) for redirectors, so <>^v can be used for joiners/splitters

Makes sense

2:33 AM

what symbol to use for replacement? all letters are used, and the generic mirror redirect chars are used

Super cool: USA river basins

Anonymous

Beams will be continuous, with c = 1 (taxicab geometry)

Anonymous

Mirrors and redirectors are instant

actually, that's not true

you'd need 6^7 = 279936 symbols

6 directions, plus stopping

Anonymous

I'm only going to use 2D splitters/joiners. Beams will have to be redirected if they're not vertical or horizontal

2:36 AM

2D in what plane?

@Geobits SmoothLife does it fine

Anonymous

The screen plane

Also what is this

oh I'm making a beam language too

is there ever a case where a reflector does not, given XY, have YX, y and x being direction

2:37 AM

so, 3D redirection is basically "go up to the next level?"

@DestructibleWatermelon I hope not, or it's not much of a mirror >_>

Anonymous

Yep

so why so many redundant pairs?

Anonymous

Source will be written in plain files, with a special character marking the end of a plane

Is this a 3D language?

Anonymous

2:38 AM

4D

Anonymous

Scroll up :)

then in the interest of golfing, wouldn't it be better to have a "hopper" that simply moves you up X levels?

you could do like 1,2,3,4,5 to move up 1-5 levels, and 6,7,8,9,0 to move down 1-5 levels

Be sure to add portals too.

@Mego Aiming for what

or you could just do a single level hopper, doesn't really matter

2:41 AM

@Mego So it's actually just 3D with mirrors that bounce the beam back?

Would lowercase o be omnidirectional flat mirror?

Anonymous

@ASCII-only Only ASCII characters used in source code

Anonymous

I have no idea what all of the characters will do yet

Anonymous

I took a golf break

@Mego Golf break?

I assume you'll be golfing in Go forever from now on per the orders of your new overlords

2:46 AM

So how do you get planes to align

Wheat Wizard

Hey guys I just made a language! I would appreciate feedback if anyone would like to take a look. github.com/Wheatwizard/Wise/tree/master

Anonymous

@ASCII-only I'm answering a code golf challenge

Anonymous

@quartata Hahahahahahano

Anonymous

I like Actually too much to give it up

Anonymous

@ASCII-only Planes will be separated by a special character. They lay right on top of each other.

2:50 AM

I'm not sure if that's the best idea for golfing, looks like it would make it harder to golf

So how exactly would things like IO work, and how are lasers spawned/how are integers and tuples represented

@Mego maybe you should Actually Go with Seriously

@DJMcMayhem looks like another intense battle between Jolf and V >:D

Anonymous

@ConorO'Brien I'm starting to think that dragons don't exist for a reason

@ConorO'Brien Damnit I'm barely beating Jolf

Anonymous

@ASCII-only This isn't a golfing language

wait a minute

Anonymous

2:56 AM

@ASCII-only The beam changing directions causes a command to be run (based on the direction change). I don't know what commands there will be, yet.

wouldn't that challenge be kind of good for turtlèd...

@Mego but I exist. regardless, our main reason for living is for puns of varying quality, most worse than others

@ConorO'Brien Haha, the only difference is that neither one is competitive, lol

this is true :P

@Mego Still, I don't imagine it'll look too nice when you have a small plane and there are too many newlines

2:56 AM

@ASCII-only which language?

I'll see if I can shorten it any

Anonymous

@ASCII-only Who cares about how it looks? This is all about creating a monstrosity.

@ConorO'Brien The only language that is more ASCII-art oriented than both Jolf and V

I added compression too late for this though ;_;

@DJMcMayhem please do. jolf shouldn't be able to outgolf submissions. it's poorly designed and the person who made it made half the commands for like three challenges

@ASCII-only charcoal?

@Mego I wouldn't call anything a monstrosity unless it's worse than either Malbolge or Java

2:58 AM

@ASCII-only maljava

Anonymous

It might very well be

Anonymous

@ConorO'Brien So Java code that's been run through an obfuscator? :P

@Mego basically. that, or decaf coffee

@ConorO'Brien Yeah, looks like Jelly is insanely short because of its compression

yeah. I have compression, I forgot about that

3:00 AM

@ConorO'Brien Well, I'll try but I won't make any promises. V isn't really that great at KC because it doesn't have any fancy-shmancy compression

Yodle

For anyone not on reddit: i.imgur.com/Jj7bCn9.jpg

Or builtin strings

that is true

Also Osable

thanks schoco, it did nothing to my string :P

3:01 AM

That "compression" in the Jelly answer wasn't anything built in

wait there only like 19 chars in that

easy compression

OMG TURTLÈD is competitive!

nice!

@ConorO'Brien Shoco is only good for words

not winning, but beating a at least one golf language!

3:03 AM

@ASCII-only true enough

@DestructibleWatermelon which one?

@quartata It's pretty much built in

Indexing builtin + alphabet builtin + baseconversion builtin = easy compression on par or better than most compression

Gah! v.tio is so slow! It's obnoxious for long programs

Actually, J and V

Tying with Jolf

@ConorO'Brien Muahaha, 13 bytes off!

Also D: Charcoal's compression isn't working for this challenge, link

A: Take a ride on the Reading, If you pass Go, collect $200

3:14 AM

@ConorO'Brien Your turn. :P

1

V, 75, 62 bytes iFKCIIBAVWMG NPTNCCSPPSVCSPELSB JCVCORIBCMGkò2|9é lá òddÍ./& Try it online! Note the trailing space. Since the contains non-ASCII characters, here is a hexdump: 0000000: 6946 4b43 4949 4241 5657 4d47 0a4e 5054 iFKCIIBAVWMG.NPT 0000010: 4e43 4353 5050 5356 4353 5045 4c53 420...

Thanks for making me do that. It was fun!

I think that's the shortest answer that doesn't use compression

Anonymous

Technically if your code is shorter than the output, you're using compression :P

Yeah, but I'm not using bijective base 23/250. :P

3:29 AM

Time to add more builtins to Charcoal

@ASCII-only Is there a charcoal tutorial yet? It looks interesting

$ git clone git@github.com:vsl-lang/VSL.git
Cloning into 'VSL'...
Permission denied (publickey).
fatal: Could not read from remote repository.

Please make sure you have the correct access rights
and the repository exists.

I swear git hates me

@DJMcMayhem Not yet, I will work on that soon when there are fewer builtins to add

just realised I need a new char for down in my esolang

@DJMcMayhem Also most of the time you can just use verbose mode, look in test.py for examples, verbosegrammars for verbose syntax, run with ./charcoal.py -v -c code or ./charcoal.py file -v, use -dv for to get non-verbose code

3:34 AM

I guess I could make a "code page"

(replace literally one char with a unicode char)

seriousy, best nonalpha char for down halp

I'm guessing you're already using v?

all alpha chars are used, yes

I could make all but v, but doesn't seem right

Hehe, another 3 bytes off. This is fun!

! might be good...

question: can someone tell me output of ls -al ~/.ssh

3:40 AM

... why do I get the feeling you are trying to trick into running that command...

even though is just ls

C:\Users\me>ls -al ~/.ssh
'ls' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.

:P

Anonymous

@Downgoat Use https://github.com/vsl-lang/VSL.git

Anonymous

Everything works fine when you follow the instructions

... ಠ_ಠ

it turned out there was actually some weird unprintables in my ~/.ssh/config file which caused bork

@Downgoat
[elendia@web455 ~]$ ls -al ~/.ssh
total 16
drwx------   2 elendia elendia 4096 Jul  2 04:28 .
drwxr-x---+ 13 elendia elendia 4096 Sep 18 23:25 ..
-rw-------   1 elendia elendia 1743 Jul  2 04:28 tempRSA
-rw-r--r--   1 elendia elendia  411 Jul  2 04:28 tempRSA.pub

3:46 AM

what should char for replacement be?

@El'endiaStarman thanks :)

Anonymous

VSL is licensed under GPL3? Yeah I'm never using it.

;_; i did poll and everyone chose GPL3

I wanted to do apache-2.0

Anonymous

Copyleft licenses are barely better than copyright licenses - they're just as restrictive (completely excluding the possibility of using it in copyrighted code), but yay you get to see source code and modify it (as long as modifications and redistributions are licensed under something GPL-compatible)

we should of used WTFPL

Anonymous

3:51 AM

MIT is great. It lets anyone do anything with the software, as long as it stays MIT licensed

> should of

Anonymous

@DJMcMayhem I wasn't going to point it out. If someone pointed out every time he made a spelling or grammar error, this room would be 90% people pointing out Downgoat's spelling and grammar errors. :P

Jul 16 at 23:48, by Downgoat

@Doorknob idk, i thought it was well established the goat is not good with words :|

i was gonna do witty remark but eh

not sure how to i/o in my new lang...

You're allowed to make grammatical/spelling error, but "should of" is particularly egregious.

:P

3:55 AM

@DJMcMayhem Perhaps I should get a keyboard made have bigger keys

you complain about my grammar, i complain about your complaining

infinite loop of complaining

i.e. life

Dennis

♫ Life is life! ♫

Anonymous

I really hope you speak better than you type :P

@Dennis Just out of curiosity, how long would this answer be if it didn't have the weird string compression/base-conversion?

Anonymous

3:59 AM

Leaked footage of Downgoat's first music class

5

@Mego pls stahp stalking/releasing personal footage, this is very unprofessional -1

@Mego i speak in Gaot++ so my speaking is up to your preference on gaot++

yesterday, by Helka Homba

...we talk about goats way too much in this chatroom...

Dennis

@DJMcMayhem 58 bytes

challenge-idea-request: I need to think of challenge involving goats and ASCII-art

i was thinking of some goat heredity diagram but im sure that'll be a dupe

Oh, nice! I got to 59, so that's pretty good

milestone!

codegolf.stackexchange.com/help/badges/64/…

4:05 AM

@DestructibleWatermelon Nice!

I just got this one

4 day old goat meets 4 month old puppy

►

yay!

and people say goats are crazy...

I'm currently trying to figure out the substitution thing in my 2d lang

has it been discussed before, whether making upvoting cost reputation would improve the quality of voting? i tried searching and haven't found a discussion on it yet

4:11 AM

That sounds like a terrible idea. Everyone would vote less

why is that bad?

oh noes you somehow ninja'd me after I posted

@MitchSchwartz Because then good content will not rise to the top in the same way

how does that work

good content rises to the top?

4

4:12 AM

also socks don't care about the cost

@MitchSchwartz also good point

1 byte builtins rise to the top

Optimizing For Pearls, Not Sand

Jeff Atwood on June 13, 2011

In March 2010, we rebalanced our reputation system to favor answers.

hardly applies here

And not to mention, if it were to apply retroactively, ConorO'Brien would lose every single point he has. :P

Dennis

PPCG's voting culture is a bit broken. I hope that most upvotes on answers that do not really deserve them are cast by newcomers that found us via HNQ, but I'm not so sure...

Anonymous

Thoughts: what if, instead of HNQ, there was "Curated Network Questions", where the questions that appears would be based on the votes cast by people with a certain repuation level on that site?

4:24 AM

I'm not sure how to prioritise matches for substitution in my 2d esolang when the substitution isn't left to right...

@DJMcMayhem :( But Charcoal was designed not to really need a tutorial

@DestructibleWatermelon Not left to right?

you can substitute matching up to down

based on the direction of impact on substitute command

French HW halp pls: love or friendship

@DestructibleWatermelon What are you not sure about

i do not understand how this is related to french but teacher asked

4:26 AM

@Downgoat 0/10 SE doesn't do your HW, also PPCG doesn't do French HW

@ASCII-only well, I definitely don't want the substitution to match any part of something already subbed in

@ASCII-only ;_;

@ASCII-only @TuxCopter pls halp how to build vsl

@Mego I don't know if it's as simple as that but it sounds like a good idea

;_; no default maek target

and I'm not sure whether I want to start from one side or another

4:27 AM

@Downgoat I haven't pushed mine yet, I have default but badly borked, and the grammar is really unfinished and also borked

pls push your

i do not understand penguincopter's maekfiel

wait, I got it now

@Downgoat Is the question just those three words

I just realised my issues didn't exist

@ASCII-only yes

4:28 AM

hooray

"l'amour ou l'amitié"

stupid autocorrect

@Downgoat No internet ;_; the earliest time I can push is in like 4 hours, also it is too borked to push, is c9 okay?

@ASCII-only wait wat if no internet how u tyep?

btw pls username consistency, r u ascii-only, mars ultor, or somebody

dis is very difficult

also my lang will have no conditionals

@Downgoat This is not my laptop (also my laptop is almost dead and I need to save battery for when I get internet, also I've been non-Unicode for ages already)

Well, at least on chat

4:33 AM

Wait a second, ASCII-ONLY == Mars Ultor?

@DJMcMayhem ~~Wait a second how did you not realize for so long ;_;~~ nvm that isn't me, my only isn't in uppercase

@ASCII-only can you do a zip -r . | base64 and paste output here?

Idk

I think that sohuld work

@Downgoat What do you mean/do it where/I don't want to manually type a really long base64 string

4:36 AM

it will base64 encode a zip of the folder outputting to stdout

@Downgoat Do you mind waiting 1 hour? I really don't want my laptop to refuse to turn on when I get internet

Qwerp-Derp

@ASCII-only I still have issues with SDL

not sure how to take i/o... also should I use some magic chars for matching for substitution?

@ASCII-only i will be fast asleep in 1hr

maybe try to upload to GH and i can see tomorrow then

@Downgoat Why not C9

@Qwerp-Derp What issues

Sp3000

4:46 AM

@MitchSchwartz I feel like this would be good in theory, but I'm not sure about the effects in practice... perhaps if there's some restriction such as the rep cost only applying for sufficiently high enough rep users

0_0 that sounds even worse

It's a privelege to be punished for voting?

Qwerp-Derp

@ASCII-only same issues as last time

betseg

@ASCII-only wat i don't realize too

it's interesting, using the word "punished" here. one might think of it as a donation that (supposing it's e.g. -1 for you and +10 for them) magically increases in value when given :)

Qwerp-Derp

Can someone help with an SDL issue?