The Nineteenth Byte

TheNumberOne

1:08 AM

I'm back!

LivingInformation

No, you're @TheNumberOne

3

TheNumberOne

@LivingInformation Hello, you're new.

LivingInformation

Hey. Yes, I am. I lurked for a few months before finally posting my first question on Friday

got me enough of a score that I could actually talk in chat

TheNumberOne

Good job ;)

LivingInformation

I take it you're a regular?

TheNumberOne

1:11 AM

Fairly so; even though I haven't been on here for the last 5 weeks.

Doorknob

1:30 AM

Hi @TheNumberOne! Haven't seen you around in a while :)

TheNumberOne

Hi, @Doorknob! Vice versa.

I was working as staff at a scout camp.

Basset Hound

Learning Python right now. Does using backslash hold an effect on strings until another backslash is put?

Or does it only escape the character after?

Doorknob

@TheNumberOne Oh, nice! I'm actually in Boy Scouts.

@BassetHound The backslash escapes the next character only.

Basset Hound

@Doorknob Alright, good to know. The book I'm reading doesn't make that clear.

Sp3000

1:57 AM

@BassetHound But not all characters need escaping, so something like "\/" is actually a length 2 string

TheNumberOne

3:06 AM

I have Windows 10 now! Hooray!

@PhiNotPi How well did you do on your ap tests?

Dennis

@TheNumberOne What did you have before?

TheNumberOne

Windows 8.1. I also dual boot with Ubuntu.

Dennis

Is it better than 8? I can't imagine it's worse. :P

TheNumberOne

So far it's better :P

Chris Jester-Young

3:21 AM

Windows 10 is so awesome, I've taken to calling it Windows X. :-P

@TheNumberOne I also recently installed Windows 10 through Stack Exchange's MSDN subscription. ;-)

aditsu

3:38 AM

does it have a start menu?

also, "Windows X" suggests 2000-year-old technology, which is probably not far from the truth :p

TheNumberOne

Goodnight (http://@aditsu@ChrisJester-Young)[] aditsu and Chris.

Chris Jester-Young

\o

aditsu

that's a weird url

TheNumberOne

Tried to make it an invisible link. Must of forgotten how.

aditsu

g'night, don't let the code bugs bite

Chris Jester-Young

3:44 AM

@aditsu Yes. You can have a Windows 7-style start menu, or a Windows 8-style start screen.

(it's configurable. Start menu is default.)

aditsu

sounds good, a few more improvements and it can match windows xp :)

2

Chris Jester-Young

;-)

(I actually recently installed XP (thanks, MSDN subscription) on a virtual machine to do some IE8 testing.)

XP is a little...interesting with HiDPI displays, of course.

aditsu

you can get free vm's from modern.ie

Geobits

I imagine it's like those toys I had when I was a kid. Like a scope thing with faceted glass on one side. Look through it and you see "like a bug".

aditsu

a kaleidoscope?

Reto Koradi

3:50 AM

@Geobits A kaleidoscope? Yes, those were fun.

Too slow. I had to look up if it's spelt with a c or k in English

Geobits

No, a kaleidoscope is the kind with mirrors and confetti-type stuff in it. This has no mirrors, you just see a bunch of everything, one through each facet.

aditsu

so.. a crystal?

Geobits

Umm, something like this:

puddleglumsrest.org.uk/charles/gallery/bugeye/bugeye.html

Chris Jester-Young

@aditsu But but but...my MSDN copy doesn't expire, and has valid product keys. ;-)

aditsu

@Geobits anyway, what are you talking about? hidpi displays in xp?

Geobits

3:54 AM

Yes, but I feel the attempted joke has been killed quite thoroughly at this point.

aditsu

better get a shotgun and make sure

Geobits

Well, the sheer amount of blood pooling on the floor is a good indication, but okay...

Chris Jester-Young

@aditsu LoDPI screenshot of an XP update I did recently (I took it to demonstrate to someone that you still can download existing updates; it's just that no new updates have been/will be provided since April 2014):

And now I'll take a HiDPI screenshot, just for comparison. ;-)

Geobits

Looks better than 8 ;)

Chris Jester-Young

;-)

aditsu

4:01 AM

bah, my flight is still not boarding

I should answer a challenge

Geobits

Silver lining found :D

Chris Jester-Young

10

Q: CipherSaber encryption

Implement a CipherSaber encryption program, as described below. Guidelines: The smallest entry, in bytes, wins. However, in a departure from code-golf norms, you are welcome to post interesting entries, even if they aren't serious golf entries. An entry would typically be a program that take...

aditsu

too complicated :p

Chris Jester-Young

Gee, thanks. :-P

Dennis

9

Q: All your bijective base are belong to us

Background A bijective base b numeration, where b is a positive integer, is a bijective positional notation that makes use of b symbols with associated values of 1 to b. Unlike its non-bijective counterpart, no symbol has a value of 0. This way, each non-negative integer n has a unique represen...

code-golf math base-conversion

Chris Jester-Young

4:07 AM

(My work HiDPI setup is 185 DPI (24" UHD screen), but my MacBook Pro 13" retina has 227 DPI, so, I'm transferring the virtual machine to that for maximum HiDPI fun. Screenshot will be coming soon. :-P)

Thank goodness for AirDrop. Makes file transfers so easy.

(My work computer is also a MacBook Pro, but it's a 15" retina, which has 220 DPI.)

Alex A.

5:06 AM

@ChrisJester-Young You have excellent taste in computers. ;)

Chris Jester-Young

@AlexA. That's standard issue for SE developers. ;-)

feersum

XP is standard issue? :P

Chris Jester-Young

^ Windows XP on HiDPI (running on VMware Fusion on my MBP 13" Retina).

@feersum No, most of our devs run Windows 8.1 but a couple of people (including me) have switched over to Windows 10.

feersum

I have a laptop where I was forced to use Windows 8 instead of 7

Maybe I'll try 10 because 8 is so unstable, I have little to lose

Basset Hound

Heh.

Chris Jester-Young

5:15 AM

2 hours ago, by Chris Jester-Young

Windows 10 is so awesome, I've taken to calling it Windows X. :-P

feersum

Just worried about drivers

Going from 8 to 8.1 even broke the graphics driver

Chris Jester-Young

@feersum What GPU do you use? I tested Windows 10 on a 3-year-old computer with a RADEON and it worked well.

feersum

it's an Nvidia

Chris Jester-Young

Oh, it should totally rock then.

LivingInformation

7:01 AM

0

Q: Take It or Leave It II: A Game Show for Computers

This is the second in a series of puzzles that I will be posting every Monday at Midnight PST. The first puzzle is located Here. Context: A reclusive billionaire has created a game show to attract the world's best and brightest programmers. On Mondays at the stroke of midnight, he chooses on...

code-challenge game

New Main Posts

0

Q: Take It or Leave It II: A Game Show for Computers

This is the second in a series of puzzles that I will be posting every Monday at Midnight PST. The first puzzle is located Here. Context: A reclusive billionaire has created a game show to attract the world's best and brightest programmers. On Mondays at the stroke of midnight, he chooses on...

code-challenge game

Beta Decay

7:22 AM

Here's the code for the oracle:

pastebin.com/20tNsK9t

Maltysen

@BetaDecay you forgot the turn management for it

but I'm doing it :)

LivingInformation

gist.github.com/livinginformation/03da477a53563688460e

oh dang, management isnt on in there

Maltysen

and theres no need for a temp var because you know len(next) == m

Beta Decay

facepalm

@LivingInformation Are we allowed to save the value of read() and oracle() in a global variable?

LivingInformation

I'm okay with anything, so long as the people who use the controller use it in the spirit of the game

Beta Decay

7:30 AM

Ah okay, so basically not messing around with the boilerplate and leaving the stack alone

Maltysen

@BetaDecay I got it

LivingInformation

Yeah. Anything that makes the code easier to write, to expose the algorithm underneath as best as possible.

Maltysen

gist.github.com/Maltysen/879f5ad17efb8c476fc2

Beta Decay

@Maltysen That was quick ;)

Maltysen

haha well it was just a single function

LivingInformation

7:33 AM

OP updated with attribution to you, @Maltysen. Thanks!

Maltysen

now to make an actual algorithm! ;)

LivingInformation

I'm curious to see how people deal with the Oracle() function, and whether it will have any impact at all on final scores

Beta Decay

Haha I see. So could you just take and get a decent score?

Maltysen

85 ~ 90 k

well with the oracle you can at least know the next value exactly

LivingInformation

Nope, you need to have an M > 10

feersum

7:36 AM

Oracle seems nearly useless

LivingInformation

>=*

Maltysen

no, oracle(99) = 5000.5

feersum

If there are 11 elements left, you could determine the last one exactly, but other than that

LivingInformation

@feersum Do you think I should lower the base value?

Maltysen

and you know current value with read()

feersum

7:37 AM

I'm still interested in the original challenge..studying it a bit now

I think the new one doesn't really add value

LivingInformation

@Maltysen do you believe the Oracle isn't useful?

I'll drop it to M>=5

Maltysen

you might be able to use it right now for heuristics, but I don't see why lowering it to 5 could hurt

LivingInformation

Relaxed the oracle to 5 turns

Actually. Im changing it to have no minimum. Letting people see 2 cards could be interesting.

gist.github.com/livinginformation/70ae3f2a57ecba4387b5

Maltysen

cool

LivingInformation

That seems like it could actually be a useful function now

oops, the oracle code appears to count the current envelope as part of the calculation

fixing that

Maltysen

7:53 AM

@isaacg got multiline inputs working and with permalinks. Putting in pull request.

Beta Decay

I can't seem to get more than a measly $60,000

LivingInformation

8:14 AM

How does this sound for a basis of a puzzle? Its a rough sketch right now, i'm probably going to tweak it a bit.

pastebin.com/raw.php?i=ic7KXQX7

Beta Decay

9:25 AM

@AlexA. I really want a dosa now :O

2

New Meta Posts

9:57 AM

0

Q: Unary, the destroyer of challenge ideas

Recently in the sandbox I've had two challenge ideas pooh-poohed because it would be easily won by Unary, or one of its derivatives. Now, I'm not saying exclude from the whole site because it can be use din ingenious ways, but what's the best way of excluding the language from challenges where i...

every. single. time.

:D

10:14 AM

;)

Sp3000

Beaten by 3 min :P

Beta Decay

Aren't all of these languages just Lenguage programs?

Sp3000

More like the other way around, Lenguage came last chronologically

Beta Decay

But all programs in the other languages are valid programs in Lenguage?

Sp3000

Yes, except MGIFOS (different encoding)

Beta Decay

10:19 AM

Hm. Would be cool to have something like an Unary Python

> It has been noted that there are more stars in the Hello World program than there are particles in the observable universe - but this is just a minor setback.

Beta Decay

10:46 AM

Wait @MartinBüttner when did you become a mod?

Martin Büttner

@BetaDecay about 4 months ago

Beta Decay

Oh haha. :D

Can't believe it's taken me until now to realise

New Main Posts

11:07 AM

0

Q: Convert any number (up to 1e3000) to text

Given an input, calculate the correct suffix and output the number in a readable format. The suffixes must go to at least 10^3000, in which the rules for calculating them can be found here, or a list can be found here. For example: 10000 = 10.0 thousand 135933445 = 135.93 million -2 = -2.0 -2.3...

code-golf

Sp3000

11:26 AM

^^ I feel like that's a dupe of something

trichoplax

I think I remember a dupe it may be a dupe of

Beta Decay

@Sp3000 codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/32151/…

Sp3000

Hmm I was thinking of this, but that's the reverse

Beta Decay

11:50 AM

No doubt bash is going to win ;)

Optimizer

1:16 PM

@BetaDecay @Sp3000 l- rebmun should work, right?

Sp3000

Hm?

Oh, right.

Nathan Merrill

@MartinBüttner are you going back to questions you missed and answering them all?

Martin Büttner

@NathanMerrill no, I just found that one while I was looking for another of your challenges and thought it looked fun for CJam

Nathan Merrill

out of curiosity, which one were you looking for, and why?

I don't think I have any notable questions, my top question happens to be my least favorite

Optimizer

the more you hate it, the more it gets upvoted

Martin Büttner

1:26 PM

@NathanMerrill determine the rotation of a square. Peter was looking for a duplicate.

Nathan Merrill

that had a duplicate?

odd

Nathan Merrill

1:41 PM

@LivingInformation I thought you last challenge was pretty great, but part II is even better. I'm quite excited you are part of the site

Sp3000

1:51 PM

@MartinBüttner Help - tips for golfing in TIS-100?

aditsu

@Dennis I'm back :p

Nathan Merrill

@Sp3000 great answer lol

do you count the @1, @2, ect as characters?

Sp3000

Yep

Martin suggested using the save file, and I think it's probably the most fair scoring method (since starting up new nodes should add bytes)

Nathan Merrill

are you able to copy/paste code from the actual game?

Sp3000

You can open the save directory and put files there

Nathan Merrill

1:56 PM

if you use the save file, it might store additional data

or is what you pasted the save file?

Sp3000

I opened the save file and all I did was remove all the @s for empty nodes

(it still works without them)

Nathan Merrill

so, there isn't an undo history or anything

cool

what's the line between tokens (think Ans in TI programming) vs characters?

because MOV in TIS-100 looks a lot like a token to me

PhiNotPi

I really feel that my envelope strategy is on to something.

I attempt to answer the question of "if my set of envelopes is X, what is my expected score?"

Sp3000

Personally... I'm not sure. There's a pretty obvious encoding for TIS, but until one is properly made I don't think it'd count

Having said that, making a TIS interpreter public might run into some copyright issues

Nathan Merrill

@PhiNotPi I tried to mathematically start calculating that, and the equation gets big with just 4 envelopes

PhiNotPi

2:02 PM

I found a pretty good way to estimate it when the envelopes are approximately uniformly distributed over some interval.

Look at my data I just added to the bottom of my answer: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/54199/2867

Nathan Merrill

while uniform distribution is often close to the situation in the challenge, it doesn't have to be the case

Dennis

@aditsu Where had you been?

Reto Koradi

I have a policy/ethics question: Is it ok to use somebody's solution from question A, and submit the same thing to question B, as long as you give credit to the original poster? This is in a case where solutions to question A are automatically valid as solutions to question B.

Dennis

If that's possible and competitive, vote to close as duplicate.

Sp3000

Policy wise, B should be closed as dupe

Nathan Merrill

2:14 PM

@Sp3000 technically, but not for this question: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/54206/…

Reto Koradi

This is for the game show questions. The assumption is that it should be possible to create better solutions for B, since you get more information. But solutions for A form a reasonable baseline.

Nathan Merrill

@RetoKoradi I'd ask in a comment.

Reto Koradi

I asked in a comment if we could consider the solutions to A being automatically submitted to B. But now somebody took my solution from A, and submitted it to B. With full credit.

Well, except that they misspelled my name.

Nathan Merrill

ah, I saw your comment, and was the one that upvoted it :P

Sp3000

They should have left a comment before they did that, especially considering how recent the other problem was

Nathan Merrill

2:17 PM

@RetoKoradi how similar are the two?

Reto Koradi

@NathanMerrill The problem or the solution?

Nathan Merrill

or are they identical?

the solution

Reto Koradi

It was translated from C++ to C#, and one variable renamed. But it's the same. And there's no disguise. As I said, they do give the source of the solution.

Nathan Merrill

@RetoKoradi the policy that should be followed is given here meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/75/… and here meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/4986/…

however, I don't believe we have a meta question on what to do when somebody feels like their code has been stolen

Reto Koradi

@NathanMerrill I wouldn't call it stolen since credit was given. If somebody had copied it and were presenting it as their own, I would know what to do!

Nathan Merrill

2:24 PM

perhaps stolen is the wrong term

but I can't come up with a better one

copied-with-attribution-without-permission

Reto Koradi

Ok, I left a somewhat friendly comment there. Well, at least I tried to keep it constructive.

Beta Decay

Hey people, can any of you explain to me how to coerce a list to a set and vice versa in Pyth?

Sp3000

set -> list you can use S for sort

list -> set I think is just {

Beta Decay

That seems to return with {(1,2,3,4)}

aditsu

@Dennis flying.. and before that, to Japan

Sp3000

2:31 PM

What are you using it on?

Beta Decay

The result from .p

Optimizer

@aditsu how was Japan ? What did you do?

Sp3000

.p returns a list of tuples, so you'd get a set of tuples? Is that not what you want?

aditsu

very hot but nice, visited some friends and a few nice places (around Matsuyama)

Optimizer

do you know Japanese?

TheNumberOne

2:33 PM

@PhiNotPi How well did you do on your ap tests?

aditsu

not really.. very little, I just learned how to read Hiragana

Beta Decay

@Sp3000 Uhh yeah, that is what I want... Never mind ;)

Sp3000

Should have totally got aditsu to buy a Japanese iTunes card for me :P Markup online is expensive

Beta Decay

@Sp3000 While you're here, to get the element at index n of a list, is the only option to use .(?

Geobits

Thief!

Sp3000

2:42 PM

Do you want to remove the element at the same time?

Geobits

:P

Dennis

@BetaDecay That's what @ is for.

samgak

Hi everyone. Sorry for the dumb question, but can anyone link me the list of assumed #defines that people seem to be using for golfing in C? I've search meta but can't find it. Kind of similar to the C++ suggestions here: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/5611/…

feersum

@samgak there are no such things as assumed #defines

Geobits

@samgak There isn't really one, and there are no assumed #defines for C (or C++). If you read the answers to that question, you'll see that there is no agreement for using them at all.

Beta Decay

2:45 PM

@Dennis Brilliant, thanks :D

samgak

@feersum @Geobits ok, thanks. That's what was confusing me. there doesn't seem to be any agreement, but people seem to be using them. Do you just go ahead and do it and see what people will let you get away with?

Geobits

Where do you see people using them? Normally this is pointed out in comments and downvoted in my experience.

samgak

ok, maybe I'm just mistaken about what is actually compilable C

Beta Decay

Do you mean compiler flags?

Geobits

That's possible (I had similar issues looking at Java here at first), but remember that many golf answers are just functions, not complete programs.

PhiNotPi

2:52 PM

@TheNumberOne All 5s

TheNumberOne

Yay! Good job. Same here.

Nathan Merrill

@samgak we technically don't require compilable C. if you need a library, you will need to use a #define, but if you simply want to create a function, then you don't need any of the framework (such as the class definition) around it

samgak

aha. that's what I was missing.

Nathan Merrill

actually, in C, can you create a function without anything else, and have it compile?

I don't know. For Java, it requires a class, but I'm not sure about C

Beta Decay

Yes, I think you can

For GCC certainly

Geobits

2:56 PM

Even if it compiles, will it do anything if run? Where's the entry point?

Either way though, for most golfs bare functions are allowed so it isn't an issue.

Nathan Merrill

true

well, you could technically say that about the STDIO library. It doesn't have a entry point.

samgak

#BetaDecay I meant both (obviously there is some overlap since you can #define stuff on the command line)

Dennis

@NathanMerrill Sure. That's how you create shared objects.

Beta Decay

@samgak Ahh. I thought you meant when people define on the command line but don't declare it as part of the total byte count

samgak

when I saw that "can we have a golfinated C++?" question it made me wonder if there was already a "golfinated C"

Geobits

3:01 PM

There's CJam, but I wouldn't exactly call it golfinated C ;)

Nathan Merrill

lol

2

samgak

When I first saw CJam, I kind of assumed "CJam is to C as Pyth is to Python". All these golfing languages are new to me though

Optimizer

you can press UP key and edit that back in

aditsu

CJam is to C as Pyth is to Pascal

TheNumberOne

@PhiNotPi If you knew what all the envelopes were exactly, what would be the best strategy?

Reto Koradi

3:11 PM

@samgak Not sure if this is what you're observing: In C, you can call functions without declaring them first. Modern compilers will typically give you a warning, but it's still legal. So you can call standard library functions without including any headers.

PhiNotPi

@TheNumberOne Technically, the player always knows what all of the envelopes are exactly, by knowing that there's 10,000 of them and keeping track of which ones he's seen.

TheNumberOne

I meant if you knew the order :)

PhiNotPi

It would be the "heaviest increasing subsequence" problem.

This problem: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/54159/…

TheNumberOne

Thank you :)

Reto Koradi

The leading solution uses that for the "end game", by solving the heaviest increasing subsequence problem for random permutations of the remaining envelopes.

samgak

3:17 PM

@RetoKoradi that's part of it. another other thing is people declaring variables without giving a type (assumed int). I had no idea that was legal

Reto Koradi

@samgak Yes, that too. It feels dirty if you're normally spending your life trying to write good code. But it's part of the game here.

2

Dennis

3:41 PM

@RetoKoradi codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/40013

Martin Büttner

3:53 PM

@Sp3000 nice :)

Sp3000

Fixing a bug atm though :(

Optimizer

bugs also need cash.

don't fix it

Sp3000

But golf tips so far: JRO beats JMP for single jumps, ADD instead of MOV if using once, ANY beats everything but UP

Beta Decay

Is TIS only on Steam?

Martin Büttner

@BetaDecay GOG maybe?

@Sp3000 let me know when it's undeleted

Sp3000

3:57 PM

It breaks on cases like 3 -5 which aren't in the tests in the OP :P

Beta Decay

@MartinBüttner Yep it's on both

undergroundmonorail

I just came here to ask @Sp3000 why they deleted their minmod answer. I got a response really, really quickly :P

Sp3000

Yeah, bugs :P

undergroundmonorail

For the record

Optimizer

Deadpool | Trailer Trailer [HD] | 20th Century FOX

►

Trailer Trailer

so wow. very dead. much pool

Beta Decay

3:59 PM

Is that actually the trailer of the trailer or just a typo?

Optimizer

watch

undergroundmonorail

People don't seem to have an issue with the way I scored my TIS-100 answer(s? i forget if i did one or two) and the way you scored yours pre-deletion hurt your score. If people decide your way is more fair I'll gladly change mine though.

Martin Büttner

@undergroundmonorail you posted TIS answers?

linky?

undergroundmonorail

I used to think I typed pretty fast but there are 3 messages between "For the record" and the thing I was saying for the record :P

Sure, one sec

3

A: Convert C header names to C++ header names

TIS Node Type T21 Architecture - 85 bytes This answer is just for fun; the language came into existence after this challenge was written and I therefore cannot win with it. (Not that I was going to.) Okay, I had a little fun with this one. I probably should just call the language "TIS-100", b...

It's just the one, I started another but never finished

Beta Decay

That is cool :)

Martin Büttner

4:02 PM

I just noticed that throughout the entire game I haven't written to ANY a single time.

undergroundmonorail

Basically I scored based on how it looks in-game, Sp3000 scored based on how the game saves it.

Martin Büttner

@undergroundmonorail surely you can JRO 3 instead of JRO -5?

undergroundmonorail

I thought that JROing to the end would run the last command but now that I think about it I have no idea if that's true.

Martin Büttner

@undergroundmonorail I prefer Sp's scoring (I actually suggested it in the TIS chat I think), because this way opening a new node costs bytes (which I think it should).

also MOV UP ACC;SUB 46

undergroundmonorail

Mine costs 1 byte per extra node (represented by newline) the which I thought makes sense because it's the same as our rule about multiple files, but if there's opposing consensus I'll gladly change it.

I actually thought that was the code I had written and had to go check my answer to see what you were correcting, haha

Martin Büttner

4:06 PM

@undergroundmonorail well it's a bit trickier than multiple files, because there's an important spatial arrangement to the nodes which is specified by the @ lines in the save file

undergroundmonorail

My memory is better at golfing than my conscious brain I guess

Okay, that makes sense to me. I'm convinced :P

I just tested, it fails with JRO 3 replacing JRO -5

Sp3000

@MartinBüttner Undeleted - things got a little messy :(

Node 9 looks very poorly optimised

... oops left a stray instruction in

undergroundmonorail

How do you guys feel about input/output location? I moved them both to the very left because I didn't need more than 3 nodes. This seems fair to me since you can create a custom puzzle that puts them anywhere you like, but Sp3k used the sandbox instead...

Sp3000

Can you set where the input comes in from?

undergroundmonorail

Yeah

feersum

4:15 PM

What if we need a stack ?!

Sp3000

(How do you specify? Trying to find in the manual)

feersum

not in manual

undergroundmonorail

You can create custom puzzles with stacks but they show up in the save file as an empty node so I have no idea how they should be scored

You go to the specification editor and write a spec in lua :P

feersum

We need to create our own interpreter so all the things just work

Sp3000

Oh... right. Spec editor :/

I'm... not sure tbh

undergroundmonorail

4:17 PM

Originally I was writing Lua code to generate test cases and the proper outputs for them

Sp3000

Also, I don't Zach would like it if an interpreter was out, just saying

undergroundmonorail

but then I realized I can just use math.random to check the seed and just have 4 things hardcoded lmao

@Sp3000 there are emulators in progress/available

feersum

I googled high scores and someone had an automated scoring verification system on reddit

Sp3000

... but that just gives people a method to easily play the game without the game

undergroundmonorail

The language != the game

If someone distributed an emulator and also all of the puzzles, I'd see a reason to be concerned.

Sp3000

4:21 PM

In this case, it's basically 90% of the game's intellectual property

(also I'm not sure about the stack thing - surely the positions of where stacks are should count for bytes, but counting the whole Lua thing also doesn't seem right...)

undergroundmonorail

In any case, Zach moderates /r/TIS100 and I don't think he's commented on any of the emulators or anything, but he hasn't taken them down either... People have said "hey if Zach wants me to get rid of this I will" and he hasn't

I'm kind of wondering if the only fair thing to do is have stacks for free? It makes no sense on the face of it but the only other solutions I can think of at the moment is an arbitrary penalty for using them (which would be weird if it was the one language on the whole site to have something like that) or just disallowing stacks (which seems like a shame).

Maybe stacks are just something TIS-100 happens to be really good at, like how things are verbose in some languages and a single character in others

OR maybe

you still have to have @## for the stack node, it just has no code in it

so you still have the penalty for using the node, but there's no code in it because, well, there's no code in it

Optimizer

Welcome to Essay writing chatroom.

2

feersum

This is the overflow room for TIS-100 Self Help

Optimizer

we should really avoid anything "over"

undergroundmonorail

...I was mistaken about the way the save data represents stacks

The node with the stack in it is not in the save data at all, and every node after it has its number reduced by 1

Sp3000

4:32 PM

Stacks for free definitely feels like cheating now :P (unless it's stack sandbox)

undergroundmonorail

Maybe you should be forced to use a sandbox?

Or at least, if you're going to make a custom puzzle, make the layout the same as an existing sandbox.

Sp3000

Too bad stack sandbox's stacks are really far from each other though

undergroundmonorail

Yeah

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