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00:00 - 18:0018:00 - 00:00

12:15 AM
@Runer112 hi :)
I don't plan to let others just commit whatever they want, but patches are welcome
yeah I've been quite busy in the last few weeks, and also under the weather for a few days
and just did the GCJ qual 2 days ago
I have a merge request somewhere, I promise I'll get to that, I just can't really say when
@MartinBüttner eval or ascii? or what if you want to compare them as strings?
 
12:49 AM
I don't know how to submit a patch
 
do you know how to make a diff?
 
not really, no
I've never had to do version control outside of version control before :p
 
in linux there's a diff command... anyway, alternatively you could simply copy and paste the modified code to a file
version control can usually also give you a diff of the changes in a revision
 
I can give that a shot
although I've made a bunch of individual changes to Ops, so I'll see if I can actually factor them out into individual patches
probably should've been committing them along the way...
 
1:15 AM
BF Interpreter in Element =>
 
1:28 AM
In hidden spoiler text, code shows up as a grey block with yellow characters printed on it when you're not moused over it. Is there a way to fix this?
 
1:54 AM
random idea: create a file extension for Element. (yes, I know that the only thing it would accomplish would be to confuse people)
 
7
Q: Code in Spoiler broken (again?)

Martin BüttnerThis one looks pretty funny actually: Found in this answer. This is in Chrome 38 on Windows 8.

 
 
2 hours later…
3:35 AM
elections are special ?
I have 200 rep on SO and I still can see up/down splitup
(in the election nominations)
 
 
2 hours later…
5:40 AM
@grc thanks, grc!
 
Hey,@xnor your pointy part of your icon is poking mine. stop it.
Ah that's better.
:)
I'm trying to add generalized cell handling like J. It's so confusing...
 
i'm just trying to feed in my output!
 
If a verb is being used with an altered rank, then (conceptually), the specified cells need to be boxed (or otherwise partitioned) and recursively call the same verb upon the boxes, collect the boxed results, pad and extend to uniform shapes, then unbox the results into an appropriately sized (frame+cell) result array.
I'm stuck on step 1: collect the cells into boxes.
@xnor I forgive you!
I never noticed before that your icon is the symbol for your namnemonic.
And rendered small, it looks like a little devil. pretty cool, dude.
 
at least you don't have a dirty mind like some others whose visualized something else...
 
maybe if you rotate it...
Mine's a line drawing made of 9 enneagons.
Not at all sexy, but very mysterious.
I've successfully allocated the box array to hold the boxes of the cells. Then I think I need another block of memory to hold array headers for each cell, but these can indirectly reference the appropriate offsets in the original (frame+cell) array so I just need headers for the cells.
 
6:17 AM
The syntax for an array of headers looks funny, but the alternative is making lots of copies which seems wasteful if it can be avoided.
dang, it's more complicated. Even headers can have a variable-length shape list at the end. So I can't just index them like a simple array. I have to calculate the pointers accounting for the length of the shapes.
Ugh. I'm sleepy. 9 lines of code written today. :(
 
 
1 hour later…
7:34 AM
@aditsu ascii. if I want to compare them as strings, I'll turn the character into a string
 
 
2 hours later…
9:28 AM
hi @MartinBüttner
hi @orlp
 
morning
 
I added a bounty.. I can't have a python script winning a fastest code competition :)
I was wondering... if there is some model to make collaborative work attractive
maybe people have already thought about this?
my overall goal is to increase the level of awesomeness of the answers :) And having being work on each other's ideas seems seems one way to achieve it
@MartinBüttner and i bought a raspberry pi 2 to run mathematica following your example! Thanks
 
there's not really a model within the framework of stack exchange... but of course you occasionally get people to work collaboratively on something and just "donate" all the rep to one of the participants
@Lembik hah, very nice :)
 
@MartinBüttner it's an amazing deal.. do you understand why they are doing it?
I mean I run it headless and use remote desktop to access it.. so it's like having mathematica on my desktop
 
"they" being wolfram or the pi foundation?
 
9:33 AM
but 850 euros cheaper :)
wolfram
I mean I just said about 850 euros and it's exactly like having it run on my desktop
 
@Lembik the best example I remember btw is codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/36187/8478 which was power-golfed by 5 people to meet the size restriction
other than that, there's been a good amount of collaboration in cracking some of the posts in cops and robbers challenges (predominantly the Unscramble the Source Code)
 
@MartinBüttner Those are wonderful pictures!
ah.. cops and robbers
interesting
or koth I suppose
 
hm yeah, although in KotHs I rarely see people actually working together. like, there's often a lot of strategy discussion in chat, but rarely collaborative submissions.
 
I think tweetable art should be clickable
in other words the JS should be encoded in the url :)
assuming that is possible
 
what?
which URL?
 
9:37 AM
the tweet could be a url
which when you click on it shows a picture
in your browser
I assume this is possible
 
right. except the challenge was in C++, not in JS ;)
 
:) a new challenge!
 
I doubt that would be very popular now ;)
 
boooo
I suppose it doesn't have to be art
maybe a pop-con for the coolest web page you can encode in a url of tweetable size
or maybe not :)
 
10:05 AM
is there a fixed English phrase for playing music straight from sheets? like playing by notes, or playing from notes, or something like that?
 
Sight reading.
Looks like I missed some fun with MathJax.
 
@PeterTaylor thanks
@PeterTaylor oh well :/
 
@Lembik Why remote desktop? Can't you just forward X11?
 
10:33 AM
god, my English music theory vocabulary is awful...
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Martin BüttnerSight Reading Music code-golfmusicimage-processing This is still a vague idea, but I'd like to gather some feedback before fleshing out the details. So here is the basic idea: take as input a (raster) image of a musical score and generate an audio file playing the music. I will provide cons...

 
also, @Peter, now that you're back, I was hoping you might weigh in on the meta post about tag wikis :)
 
10:50 AM
I'm not sure I have much to add.
(Except that half of the most popular tags are pretty pointless because they're used so randomly)
 
11:31 AM
@PeterTaylor X is very slow I find over anything but a local ethernet network
@PeterTaylor I think the problem is basically latency. X seems to require a huge number of small objects of data to be transferred
 
@PeterTaylor I completely agree but I thought improving the tag wikis might be a nice first step towards improving this situation.
 
But what can you do with a tag like ? Any restrictions on usage which might be added would disqualify (probably dozens of) existing questions with the tag, but unlike vs there's no obvious way of splitting it and gradually migrating existing questions.
 
I don't even mind tags like . It's broad but it's usually obvious when it's applicable.
 
11:54 AM
this is the most efficient conversation I've ever seen on reddit.
 
12:08 PM
Going by the tag wiki, it's applicable to every question that takes input or produces output which is neither an image nor audio.
 
12:27 PM
hm yeah, but that's what I mean... the tag wiki needs improvement... but the tag itself is not generally a bad idea.
(honestly, even image or audio is a string in some sense)
 
@PeterTaylor also.. I quite like getting a full desktop which I am not sure how to do with a normal X11 connection
 
1:33 PM
curse you @Optimizer
 
:D you cannot do shorter?
 
I only got to look at the cube faces question now and you've already got a CJam solution
well, I might be able to beat you by a byte
but it would be so similar
 
and you dont get to say curse you without upvoting :P
 
fine :p
 
*or downvoting
 
1:38 PM
@MartinBüttner that is extra mean
he was trying to not be mean
curse + up vote is neutral
 
yeah true, he might have been serious though, so downvoting would definitely be a legitimate course of action :P
 
nah, he's a bro
@MartinBüttner you would have gotten 100s of downvotes if the reason is a valid reason to curse :P
 
ah, but I didn't say what's a valid reason to curse... I said cursing someone might reasonably accompanied by a downvote ;)
 
but he's not cursing me, that is the point :P
he's just challenging himself to find an even shorter solution.
(which he probably will)
 
yeah, I just want to get something in there
before we get our butts kicked by J or APL or something
 
1:56 PM
@PhiNotPi your proposal reminds me that I've still got a certain code challenge controller to finish...
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

PhiNotPiProgramming Tetris Blocks (Even More Literally?) In this challenge, you will write a Tetris AI. There's one twist though: the AI will operate from the perspective of the Tetris blocks themselves. Note: I am worried about the novelty of this question. The key is "the perspective of the Tetris ...

 
2:10 PM
@MartinBüttner Which one?
 
it's all implemented except process communication
 
@MartinBüttner In what language is it implemented?
 
C
(which is the root of the problem :P)
 
Actually, this could be a good thing
Separation of responsibilities and whatnot. Your C program doesn't need to know much about process communication
I'm pretty sure you can just reuse the process invocation from any of the past KotH challenges.
 
but then people need to run both the C controller as well as the Java (or whatever) program doing the process communication.
then again, this would make things pretty easy, because the game is already controllable via STDIN
 
2:16 PM
Not if you compile and package them yourself into an exe
Game.exe and Communicator.exe (not malicious just believe me)
Ok so that is a bad idea.
I believe there are tools that can compile and run both C and C# yes?
Maybe not. I can't find one
 
you can compile C++ to CIL, so C might also work
but then .NET :/
despite Mono, I just know that'll get too much hate from the Unix folks
 
I was holding my tongue on that one ;)
 
I'll probably just have to read up on C process communication in both Windows and Unix and implement both
"some time after exams"
 
6-8 weeks?
 
In windows it's the very worst
 
2:29 PM
What is the very worst?
 
process communication
chrome uses it for the native plugins
and it's very buggy
 
Sounds like Chrome is very buggy
 
I've never had much problem with Chrome plugins on Windows. Which ones do you mean?
 
It might be chrome, but I think it has more to do with something in the buffers
Not chrome plugins, but native plugins
 
@Geobits indeed :D
 
2:31 PM
@Runer112 pretty sure xnor is gonna come up wit ha weird mathematical equation to do the job
 
probably
 
I had to develop one for work, and after two or three days I decided I would communicate between processes with sockets, so much easier
 
I guess I don't really understand what it means for Windows process communication to be buggy. I've never had any issues with process communication using Java (on Windows) or C# (on Windows).
If the communication is buggy on Chrome, I blame Chrome.
Then again, I haven't really dived into the finer points of it. Java and C# cover up the details.
 
I blame chrome anyways
enough blame on windows already
 
Meh. I use chrome on windows, ubuntu, and android. If there's something overly buggy about it, I haven't noticed.
Maybe the behind-the-scenes implementation is weird, but as far as user-facing bugs go, it seems as good as or better than much commercial software.
 
2:53 PM
It's not something really visible in chrome, really, since it's really uncommon to find native extensions, it's just how windows handles piped streams between processes, if implemented using the winapi one can lose his mind
And I'm not trying to blame windows on it, but their retrograde winapi, which is the worst to use
 
but... but this is the internet. You have to make an overly broad assignment of guilt.
 
Oh, okay, then... f**k windows for the worst api, f**k apple for their closed system and f**k linux for their ugly interfaces and lack of commercial-grade programs
 
Much better
 
here to please
 
@rcrmn I am a linux user and there is nothing better than cat!
:)
 
3:02 PM
Not true. A dog is better than a cat.
3
 
controversial!!
f**k nature with its many different animals
 
In a utility sense, I don't think it's controversial at all. Cats don't (or won't, the smug bastards) do work if needed.
 
@Geobits although you are objectively right... see gov.uk/report-dead-animal
no cat listed :)
almost makes me feel bad for them
 
That's so racist! leaving cats out because they can be less friendly...
 
I think it's more like the listed species are possibly someone's working/farming animals. Cats are useless :P
 
3:08 PM
speciesist?
 
@Lembik That
@Geobits Not useless, just misunderstood
 
Don't get me wrong, most pets are "useless" if you're not counting intangible benefits (companionship, teaching kids to care for animals and lessons in empathy, etc). Cats just don't have much place outside pethood, either, unlike some.
I guess you could make a case for rat/mouse hunters, but dogs can do that too (and most like to).
 
Personally I distinguish between proper dogs and not proper dogs, where proper dogs have to be roughly wolf sized, I see no purpose for not proper dogs and am generally opposed to the notion of pets as opposed to working animals
 
The case is, I dont need a pet, so the practicality of a pet, if I had one, would not be one of my first concerns... But I find funny that the gov. page to report accidents with animals basically assumes cats are unworthy
@VisualMelon I share that view: if a dog weights less than a cat, it is not a proper dog
 
quite so
 
3:23 PM
Maybe doesn't need to be wolf sized. Beagles/hounds are primarily bred for hunting, yet are far smaller than a wolf. Smaller than a cat? Yes, that's just a toy :)
 
Beagles and larger Spaniels might cut it
 
Here, these "toy" dogs are called "kick" dogs
 
Ah, "ankle biters" is the most common here.
 
if you can't lose a fight with it, why would you have any respect for it?
 
I think some people get them specifically because they can't lose a fight with it.
 
3:25 PM
I pity those people
 
Why is the chatroom called the nineteenth byte? why the 19th?
 
I think some people may be confusing this chat with the pets.stackexchange.com chat. Over here. HTH, HAND.
 
They named their chat room The Litter Box??
 
30
A: Let's think of a creative name for our chatroom

dmckeeWell, the traditional generic name for the country club bar is "the nineteenth hole", which suggests The Nineteenth Byte or something like that.

 
your house is litterally a litter box when you have pets
 
3:32 PM
do americans say "Here, pussy"
to their cats?
 
@ProgramFOX Thanks!
 
I entered at a weird time.
 
"here, pussy"
 
Im trying to compile here x_x
 
3:50 PM
@Runer112 What doesn't kill you makes you stronger!
 
I am the master of hardcoding solutions! :p
I'm happy I finally got a chance to show off my super-ASCII compressor
literally super-ASCII, in that it uses a base larger than 256 but it fit in the ASCII range anyways
 
so I just have to do 22 ?
I guess I will wait for isaacg/jakube for some real competition :P
 
4:06 PM
look at this trash talker here
good luck getting 22, you'll probably need a wildly different method :p
there may actually be a way to more intelligently arrange the vertices and faces, but I can't think of one
 
I am waiting for xnor to answer so that I can beat him and you :P
oh, and if it was not clear, the above line translates to "so that I can copy his algorithm and implement in CJam"
 
sounds like you already have an answer in mind
oh
well, unless he makes his answer in Pyth, in which case you're SOL
 
SOL ?
and he doesnt do pyth
 
he did Pyth on the last question I answered
thankfully my answer was in like a day before his so I managed to collect a lot of the upvotes before he could
I occupy the middle ground between fastest answer and best answer
 
while Sp3000 or Martin always take away the richest answer :P
there you go
 
4:26 PM
That looks like a good, intelligent algorithm to copy :p
 
can't chunk it down in sub 23 in cjam at least
Pyth can do 20 I think
 
I might try converting it, but I have too much stupid pride to post such an answer
 
oh wait
 
4:40 PM
err
this solution doesn't work, does it
well, it does
but his optimization of flipping even faces doesn't
wait, I don't know any more
jk, it's fine
 
It is 68 degrees at my workplace :(
 
wow, people really want me to look like an arse by specifically starring my such messages :D
2
@Rainbolt how do you manage to walk ?
the ground is at 0 degrees for me and I still find it difficult to walk
 
are we talking F, C, or K
 
because those correspond to quit your whining, you're boiling alive, and you're frozen solid
2
 
4:45 PM
@Optimizer Well, my brain sends signals to my muscles that make them contract and relax.
 
@Rainbolt whoah! damn my brain is useless
@Runer112 degrees is a unit in itself too
 
well, sure
but describing a workplace as having a certain angle doesn't make a lot of sense
 
and by your recent starred message, neither does missing out the heat unit
 
@Rainbolt According to Google, that's still warmer than it is outside. Back to work! ;)
 
@Geobits we are software "engineers", no heat, inclination or missing out a heat unit can stop has from working
 
4:50 PM
True. It's chat that does that.
 
personally I don't recognize "degrees" as units
 
@Geobits Meh, you just need to Optimize a bit more
 
because they don't work properly
 
@VisualMelon you always talk in radians in geometry ?
 
A radian-preacher in the house? :)
 
4:51 PM
Wikipedia (on degrees): "It is not an SI unit, as the SI unit for angles is radian, but it is mentioned in the SI brochure as an accepted unit.[1] Because a full rotation equals 2π radians, one degree is equivalent to π/180 radians."
 
I prefer bradians
 
@Optimizer well now I look dumb, I meant degrees C, F, etc. ;) (kelvin not being degrees) - but I do prefer radians to degrees, it's just everyone else seems to use them, and they do work
 
Sometimes it's just easier to use rational numbers ;)
 
Kelvin isn't degrees?
 
no no, I agree, angular degrees are fine
 
4:53 PM
@Runer112 Not anymore
The "degree Kelvin" (°K) is a former name for the SI unit of temperature on the thermodynamic (absolute) temperature scale. Since 1967 it has been known simply as the kelvin, with symbol K (without a degree symbol)
 
I just don't like them, degree C etc. is madness
 
My kid is constantly saying that Kelvin is a bully. Probably not the same thing.
 
sorry, enough of my opinions for one day, just don't get me started on chemistry exams and percentages
 
At least degrees C makes some sort of sense. F is fairly arbitrarily scaled.
As in, I had to Google it the other day to figure out what 0 degrees F was scaled to.
 
I can guess why people still say "degrees Foo". It allows people to make it plural. You say "2 seconds". You don't say "2 Celciuses" (celscii? celsae?)
 
4:56 PM
cels
 
Let's all just use BTUs :P
 
F is very non-arbitrarily scaled
 
The plural is just celsius apparently
 
0F is damn cold, 100F is damn hot
 
@Runer112 its an absolute relative percentage
 
4:56 PM
@Runer112 Yea, that's pretty arbitrary in my book :D
 
as a scale for use by human beings, it's very useful
 
So is a foot, but it's still arbitrary.
 
40C? is that going to hurt if I touch it? who knows
 
Are you saying that Farenheit has a "hot to touch" number?
 
100F doesn't hurt if you touch it either.
My hot water comes out of the tap around 130F.
And it turns to ice at 32F.
So, subtract 32 from F and it makes it more useful, if still arbitrary.
 
5:00 PM
@Runer112 Isn't that just a matter of what scale you're used to? o.O
 
I agree that the metric system is better for almost everything
but mainly because of the power of 10 scaling
 
I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with the metric system.
 
whatever
imperial versus SI
 
Again, unrelated.
 
seems pretty related..? the standard imperial temperature unit is F and the standard SI temperature unit is C?
 
5:02 PM
Wikipedia doesn't say anything about that :(
 
CJam users, is there a variable which defaults to 256 yet?
 
I wish
 
@PeterTaylor nope
 
@Runer112 Would you mind linking to somewhere that says that Farenheit is an Imperial unit?
And that Celcius is metric?
 
5:04 PM
look, if I'm wrong, just tell me I'm wrong
 
there, get rekt
 
well, and K is an SI base unit, where C is just a more convenient offset for everyday use.
 
yeah, apparently
also, looks like someone fudged up the formatting for the description of what Kelvin is on this wikipedia page
actually, they're all screwy, so maybe my browser is fudging them up instead
 
5:17 PM
so that post is off-topic, but I'm not sure where it's on-topic
 
I'm on the fence. Is it off topic? I mean, it's not a challenge, but it is about programming puzzles.
 
just because it contains the words "programming puzzles" doesn't really make it about programming puzzles ;) ... to me it sounds more like he's asking about categorisation of computational problems. CS maybe?
 
he says puzzles, but really it's just problems in general
 
Or programming problems,at least. I'm unsure where the line is between puzzle/problem. here.
 
ninja'd
 
5:21 PM
This absolutely must be settled while I eat lunch:
0
Q: What unit system does Farenheit belong to?

RainboltWikipedia's page for Imperial Units does not list Farenheit. The corresponding page for SI Units lists Kelvin as an SI unit, and Celcius as a derived SI unit. This leads me to believe that Farenheit does not belong to a system. Farenheit is listed as a page belonging to the Imperial Units categ...

 
Ninja'd hard :(
 
@Rainbolt you might want to fix all of that to "Fahrenheit"
 
That is embarassing
 
also the UK uses a very weird mix of imperial and metric units. (so much that Randall Munroe wrote a UK-specific foreword about this in his What If? book)
 
I did qualify it with "mostly"
Does that still not accurately describe the situation?
If you have a more accurate description, then seeing as how you are a UK-dian I give you permission to edit.
 
5:37 PM
Wat.
 
"UK DIAN"
so I live in the IN ?
 
no, you live in de "AH" (sorry)
 
what ?
 
India/In de ah
 
that was lame
 
5:41 PM
indeed it was
 
the "ah"
but funny
a bit. ticklish
 
don't feel you have to subdue any wish to express your displeasure at my petty antics
 
I hate esc.
 
I hate etc.
 
Anyone knows any easy-to-digest articles/tutorials about compiler design?
 
5:48 PM
probably
 
Sometimes I just don't agree with other people's humor.
 
probably
 
This time I did.
 
@Rainbolt I don't claim to understand how units work in this country.
(I just felt that "mostly" gives them more credit than they deserve, from a continental European perspective ;))
 
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