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12:05 AM
you could always get the Win10 developer preview
 
@FUZxxl Nice solution. I couldn't found the way to pad/cut one of the lists. Also thought that o. is for trigonometry only (in a sense it is) but turns out it's pretty useful here. :D
(codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/47282/7311 if anyone else interested in J)
 
already upboated
 
12:29 AM
haz arrived.
 
leaves
 
awww
 
(I vow solemnly, this is purely coincidental)
 
k. c ya
I haven't been participating as much around here lately. I got drafted into being a bass-player for a local theatre.
Now I have to learn how to play it! (mostly classical techniques that never came up in the college jazz band)
I'd be saying this in the music chatroom. But there's never anybody there. :(
 
@MartinBüttner Is it possible to do "pop if zero, else keep the element" in CJam? (I feel like I've asked this before)
 
12:57 AM
nvm too long for ladders anyway
 
1:11 AM
@Rainbolt How about this as a way to get Windows 8.1? windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/…
Actually, that may or may not require a product key.
It might be worth a shot.
 
1:49 AM
@Geobits More ethical than my roommate apparently. He's gotten our internet shut down five times in the last twelve months. I'd prefer a legal way. I just assumed that somewhere there must be a cheap way to get a 64 bit version of Windows Vista. It's almost a decade old.
 
It's kinda weird how it's impossible to find older versions of Windows.
 
I can translate the top half of the ice cream cone to inca, but I'm stumped on the bottom half.
It's an apl dialect. So it should use a jot-dot table, I think.
So I just need a triangle function (x,y)->bool
y<abs( x/2-m/2) ?
 
2:26 AM
@Rainbolt Check out your company. A lot of places have deals set up with MS where employees can get a steep discount on software for home use. I've seen it as low as $15 for the whole Office suite. Never checked the OS itself, though. If not, well, it was worth asking I guess.
Also, how bad do you have to be to get your internet shut off these days? I'm not saying I download stuff I shouldn't (cough), but I haven't really heard of that happening in the last five years or so.
 
2:44 AM
getting somewhere here.
        c10
   ((((
 ((((((((
 ((((((((
((((((((((
((((((((((
   VVVVV
    VVV
    VVV
     V
     V
the cone is too skinny
 
It looks like an ice cream cone to me.
It looks exactly 1/2 of the needed width.
 
Yeah. I'm getting tired though. The workflow is terrible.
inca only has a REPL. So i'm editing in vi. Then to test, I have to exit, cat the file, highlight+copy. start inca. paste. call the function.
It's hard to remember what I'm actually trying to test.
 
That sounds... painful.
 
Yes. But if I modify the interpreter, then it's no longer valid for the challenge!
Hmm. I suppose I could modify my local copy.
 
I would suggest modifying your copy to make it easier. If you've found a solution, test with the original and post.
 
2:55 AM
oh. I know. I can just add the call to the file and cat the whole thing.
 
okay
 
just input redirection. I've been making it harder than necessary.
 
3:46 AM
@MartinBüttner I'm glad someone noticed :D
 
4:31 AM
@Geobits Hmmm... I'll have to check that out. Thanks for the suggestion. As for the pirating, we get shut down every time he downloads a movie that's still in theaters, once for an older movie, and once for a porn (I had a blast reading that notice and I bet they had a blast writing it). My ISP sucks but it's the lesser of two evils in this city.
I don't pirate at all. Haven't since I was 18. The scare tactics worked on me. If there's a one in a million chance that they'll come after me randomly for hundreds of thousands of dollars, I don't want to take it.
I do stream movies from rainiertamayo.com though.
 
4:47 AM
Alright! First valid submission of an inca program.
Crap! I was supposed to be looking for problems to use my postscript library for, not inca.
 
5:25 AM
@luserdroog Is it a self-written J-like language?
 
Yes. exactly.
 
with (currently) smaller instruction set
 
But I'll bet J can do better, using trains.
And implemented in 1100 lines of C.
It's pretty macro-heavy.
 
It always bugs me that if J would use 1-letter operands it could beat all golf languages
 
Yes. The downside of the alternate choice is more parens to disambiguate monadic from dyadic uses.
In my jot-dots I need extra parens around the right arg to disambiguate from dot-product.
 
5:29 AM
how does inca's "control flow" works? like trains in J
and hooks/forks?
 
Inca has no trains, but it can interpolate.
All variables are single letters, but a variable can be an array or a user-function or a base function or derived function.
My favorite example is a<1 b<+ c<2 then abc yields 3.
A colon-function receives its left-arg (if any) as x and its right-arg as y. There are no niladic functions.
 
so it would be a golfing language (based on the 1-letter variables)
 
That's the idea. Not really winning anything yet, tho. :)
I wanted to build it up enough to do the Utah teapot drawing. I thought apl would be good for all the linear algebra involved. But I've stalled on that front, too. Too much algebra from my little brain.
Inca will probably lose to real APL because of the limited punctuation in ascii.
 
 
3 hours later…
8:42 AM
@Calvin'sHobbies Can we read our own source code?
 
No! Forgot to mention, fixing.
 
Thought so :P
 
@Sp3000 _!{;}*
 
Oh, thanks
 
damn, the black pixel counts aren't unique :D
 
8:50 AM
Will keep a note of for future reference
 
what... not even incrementing a counter on . and adding the counter to a running total on # is unique o.O
(or vice versa)
hm, always incrementing the counter is though
 
9:07 AM
damn. I am still at the AscII Cream ICE challenge
 
9:23 AM
If CJam didn't do the funny negative mod thing this would be a lot easier...
Oh I can Golfscript. Hooray.
 
 
1 hour later…
10:36 AM
@MartinBüttner Isn't F 15? At your digits explanation
 
10:55 AM
Ah yeah, I'll fix that when I get home (feel free to edit it yourself if you want)
 
Done
 
I almost had a 24X1 working
but office.
 
I've been running scripts for an hour and I'm not getting lucky :(
 
didn't u just get 23X1 ?
 
By getting lucky I mean not needing to index in the end
 
11:08 AM
you can have better readability with ];Z6+ D%:Z"6358942071"=
 
Not too fussed about that atm - if I get lucky enough then 22 shouldn't be too hard :)
I'm really hoping my script outputs a permutation which isn't hard to transform into [0 1 ... 9]
 
11:24 AM
Nope, I guess brute force luck isn't going to happen
 
so back to kerning ?
(sort of kerning)
 
Kerned
Well, aligned is probably the better word :P
 
Kemed
 
@randomra Thank you!
 
@Sp3000 Since we are drawing fonts, its somehow kerning only ;)
 
11:25 AM
@Optimizer rninirnurn
 
Fail
 
D:
 
hi
 
@randomra The function %:@>:@*: is the Pythagorean distance. I was pretty sure I could find it in o. and there it was!
 
I am worried people seem to hate my longest common substring question
what is wrong with it??
 
11:29 AM
Probably because hard problem + code golf = scary
 
11:55 AM
@Lembik O(n) is hard to do even without code-golf
a quick search for suffix array doesn't give O(n) implementation
 
12:08 PM
@randomra Building a suffix array is possibly in O(n). I used this quite recently for a challenge.
@randomra cf.
7
A: Counting k-mers

FUZxxlC (≥ 4000) This code neither uses less than 2 GB of RAM (it uses slightly more) nor produces any output in the first minute. But if you wait for about six minutes, it prints out all the k-mer counts at once. An option is included to limit the highest k for which we count the k-mers. When k is l...

 
I know it's O(n) just saying that it's not easy to find an O(n) implementation even if you know yu are looking for suffix array
I was trying to map ( / ) / anything else to 1 / -1 / 0 in J and could find a better way than 1 _1 0 {~ [: '()'&i.input_matrix which is quite long
 
12:42 PM
@randomra should I give links to how to build both a suffix array and a suffix tree in linear time?
@randomra also... who needs easy :)
@Sp3000 ah... thanks
 
@Lembik that might help if you want more submissions (I know it's 0 now)
 
ok .. let me find some great links
 
but probably Sp3000 is right, hard problem + golf = scary
even if you like both
 
@randomra codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/47249/… Are the edits useful?
@FUZxxl I added info which I hope simplifies it
@FUZxxl and any thoughts on your better solution for counting k-mers??
 
@Lembik Which better solution do you mean?
 
12:54 PM
"@kuroineko I have an idea how to construct the data we need in linear time without using an LCP array. Let me check… –"
that one from feb 9
is Peter Taylor on a PPCG holiday?
 
@Lembik yep, and even if there will be no golfed answer people will read up on it (e.g. me)
 
@Lembik at least on a 19th byte holiday ;)
 
zep == yep? :)
@MartinBüttner :)
 
I've seen him comment, answer and edit though
 
ah ok
 
12:57 PM
qwerty = qwertz
 
@Lembik Ah yes. It turned out that my idea doesn't work.
But what's funny is that you only need the LCP array, not the suffix-sorted array.
 
@FUZxxl ah ok.. that is funny indeed
@randomra :)
@randomra I am not sure that it needs 100+ lines of code in a high level language. Maybe it does in C
@randomra actually no.. the C code in Appendix A is 50 lines and I can't see why the rest would take another 50 lines even in C
 
@Lembik The SAIS algorithm computes an LCP and suffix-sorted array at once. I thought it was possible to throw away the suffix-sorted array in this process to get under the memory limit but that turned out to be very hard.
@Lembik 50 lines of C is a lot.
 
@luserdroog 50 lines of C == ?? lines of Haskell? :)
@FUZxxl it's very nice idea though
@FUZxxl oops.. I meant that to be for you
@randomra I even added the exact time to start watching the video lecture :)
maybe there should be a flag called >50 for questions which might need more than 50 lines of code in the answer :)
 
@randomra :) Thanks!
 
do you mean code-golf ones though?
 
given that I have now supplied code in several ways and tutorials... I hope someone will try my question!
@randomra I didn't mean anything too specific.. I am just getting the impression that some people expect code golf to be all about syntax tricks for short functions
 
I can only recall the chess-program
 
I like how no one dares to comment on this:
25
A: Could an unsually long lived being continue to learn with the times?

Serban TanasaAs a Transylvanian native with a strong affinity to dark offices, I believe I can shed some light on your question. Since I'm typing this on a computer, it should be obvious that at least some of us are up to date in technology, so have kept up with the times. If I were to engage in introspect...

 
1:22 PM
@randomra and never for implementing interesting algorithms in a concise way
which is my interest
maybe someone will try my challenge now I have made it easy in any case :)
 
@Lembik that's not true only if you mean interesting as time/memory-efficient
 
@randomra I suppose I did mean that
@randomra it is still early days.. hopefully my edits will help
fingers crossed :)
ultimately I want a speed-golf tag :)
thanks for the upvotes!
 
@Rainbolt is that ASCII spiral challenge coming up? That sounded really good!
 
@Lembik combining two kind of goals is tricky
 
@randomra true... but also a good idea I feel. What is your main concern about it?
 
1:32 PM
a) balancing well is hard (if you have one thing you don't have to do it at all)
b) confusing for the reader/solver (simple is better)
 
Speed-golf sounds like it should be a live competition.
 
2:01 PM
@MartinBüttner Yea I'll start working on the spec. Your message gave me motivation.
 
heyy! golfers
 
I don't think I realized how many ASCII challenges you could do and not be dupe
 
Hey @tintinmj!
 
@Rainbolt yay
 
we are going to organize a codegolf competition in our college... any logo or image idea?
that we can use it in posters?
 
2:02 PM
I can provide inspiration
 
@Rainbolt will appreciate! :)
 
No i meant any logo that can be used to depict code-golf?
 
I'm just plugging. But since I did I'll put some serious thought into this
What college?
Is this a logo for a club or a one off thing?
 
just for the competition
our college is gnit.ac.in
just to explain a bit
 
2:07 PM
Wow. People get ragged?
At all three colleges I went to everyone was open minded. Those who weren't kept their mouth shut about it.
 
one competition will be on coding named "supercoder" so to depict that we are using prntscr.com/6c68ct this logo
 
How many people at your college?
 
No our college is ragging free
 
Oh good
 
about 5k students
more than 5k
 
2:09 PM
Ok. If you are putting this poster up I would at least write the words PROGRAMMING CONTEST in huge letters where any passerby will catch their eyes on it
 
yeah will do
this is just a logo
 
And the location and time in huge letters too
 
to catch an eye
 
@PhiNotPi A good idea too :)
 
I don't know much about posters really. That's all I know
 
2:10 PM
hmm actually i am hunting for any images or logos
that will go with code-golf idea
since this is first in our college
no one knows about code-golf
we are trying to encourage people to code and play with it
 
@randomra I think those are good points but I also think combining speed and conciseness is something people really want to do in practice. Which makes it at least worthwhile
 
They'l find out about code golf when they get there right?
I went to something in college called a Hackathon. Had no idea what it was about. All I cared about was that the poster said it was a programming competition
 
yah
 
Turned out to be a 12 hour marathon coding challenge where a team of three had to build a real usable thing.
 
any eye-catching image related to code-golf wil work
right now tesseractfest.org/images/code_golf.jpg we are using this image
which is not cool
at all
 
2:14 PM
You define abs to be three letters :(
 
or rather misleading
yeah just as i said
 
I think it looks sweet
Not sure what the barcode is for though
 
That abs looks... off? Does that work?
 
@Geobits don't know :P
 
The true condition and the condition itself need to be swapped lol
 
2:16 PM
I was hoping it was some obscure language designed to mess with people or something, but looks like it's just wrong :(
 
guys can we please focus to the problem?
 
I thought the logo was the real problem ;)
 
yup that is
need an eye catching logo or image that will depict code-golf
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

user23013Find the maximum of ax+b You are given a list of (a,b), and a list of x. Compute the maximum ax+b for each x. You can assume a, b and x are non-negative integers. Examples: [[1 10] [2 8] [4 0] [3 3] [0 4]] [1 2 3 4 5] Output: [11 12 14 16 20] This is code-golf. Shortest code wins. But you...

 
Have you heard the term "programmer art"? It's possible you might want to ask elsewhere, also :D
 
2:20 PM
The logo is pretty bad.
Really bad.
 
yeah i know
thats why i need help
 
It's like when I see music-themed art, but the artist drew the music notes backwards.
 
ASCII art golf ball.
 
yeah good idea @Geobits
anything else?
 
(which would be completely unrecognizable, I know)
 
2:22 PM
Add a golf hole with flag in the background.
 
@Rainbolt and hard isn't always bad...
 
Huh?
 
Are there any answers on PPCG that would make a good example? Preferably something written in a common language like C or Python.
 
how is this?
 
@tintinmj Unless it's actually code, I don't see the point of ASCIIfying it
 
2:30 PM
I got my minecraft server set up last night on my desktop. I can play at the same time, but if more than a couple of others log in, I don't think my 6GB of RAM will be able to handle it.
 
-_-!
 
People keep finding more and more ways to make Minecraft take up more and more memory
 
that is also right @Geobits
 
surely the logo should be created by some minified piece of code :)
 
@Rainbolt I've had 15 or so players on my laptop (8geebees) with no issues. Are you sure it's RAM that's the problem?
 
2:31 PM
it would be better if PCG had a logo, then i can <strike>steal</strike> borrow it :P
 
@Geobits I'm hosting a modded server
 
That's why we don't have a logo yet (until we graduate in May). We don't trust the internet.
3
 
If Creeperhost's info is correct, 10-15 vanilla players equals 4-5 players on a Feed the Beast modpack
 
:D lol
 
@Rainbolt How modded? I'm using a bukkit server with a few mods loaded, but not a complete overhaul.
Ah, got it.
 
2:33 PM
Uhh.... more than 30 mods I think
I'll check
 
Mostly ours is so my son can practice writing mods :D
 
Yea, so not comparable at all :P
Well, RAM is cheap, right? ;)
 
Yes (not sure why the winky face)
 
Winky face because "go spend money" is not the sort of solution most people like to hear (at least before considering other options).
 
2:37 PM
I'm frugal. I don't spend a lot
 
I figured that, since you were looking for a $20 Windows last night :P
 
I think about $100 purchases slightly more
I have plenty of options for RAM: newegg.com/Product/…
 
Unrelated: Is ideone giving everyone a 503, or just me?
 
Just you
 
That's unfortunate.
 
2:39 PM
Ok. I've narrowed it down to only the ones with 5/5 ratings. Any of you have a recommendation among these? newegg.com/Product/…
 
I haven't shopped for RAM in a couple years, but I never had Kingston or Corsair give me problems. I don't recognize many of the brands on that page, though, so no opinions on them.
 
Here are the Kingston ones newegg.com/Product/…
The word "plumbing" looks weird to me suddenly
I can't read it without saying plum-bing now.
This manufacturer's response to a review: "Once you receive the new kit, configure the settings in BIOS/EFI, then the system should be fast and reliable. Keep in mind, without the proper settings, it is possible for the RAM to corrupt over time. For all further questions or concerns, feel free to contact us directly. "
RAM goes corrupt over time? Seriously?
What do BIOS settings have to do with corrupting my RAM?
 
okay, the next fortnightly challenge is basically ready. it would be great if some people in here (who haven't helped work it out) could have a look and give some feedback. :)
1
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Martin BüttnerFortnightly Challenge #6 - Language Design Join us in the Fortnightly Challenge Chat to work out the details of this challenge! 2-D Pattern Matching popularity-contestlanguage-designgridstring And now for something completely different... In this challenge, you will be designing a language! ...

 
Do I count as having worked on it?
 
@Runer112 Very cool link. Thanks!
 
@PhiNotPi yes :P
 
@MartinBüttner I like it. It might take me a while to build my parser though :/ I've never built a parser of any kind before.
 
3:16 PM
@Rainbolt approximately what are you looking for?
 
All I need is RAM
I think I found what I need though
 
alright
 
Minecraft servers aren't super CPU intensive. They use tons of RAM, and I'll be playing on the same machine, so double that
It's something like 3GB of RAM for the server and 2 for me
And it slowly grows and grows until the server crashes, then starts over again
 
just avoid PNY if possible, they don't have the best reputation
 
64 GB of RAM wouldn't prevent that. I just want to crash once a week instead of once a day
 
3:18 PM
sounds like you've got some buggy mods loaded or something, it shouldn't leak mem constantly
 
It's Minecraft actually
It leaks slowly
 
I don't have that problem with MC itself (that I've noticed).
 
Do you leave it runnin for days on end?
 
I've never actually run an mc server myself, but I would've thought they've at least got that under control by now
 
It may be the server that leaks
All I see is java processes. It doesn't really differentiate
 
3:20 PM
Yea, I've had it up for a couple weeks with no noticeable effects.
 
do you use FTB?
because I googles minecraft server leak, and all the top results mention FTB
 
Yes but I also play on vanilla servers that crash regularly
FTB makes it worse
 
I also see mentions that the 1.7.10 launcher leaks for some reason. Obviously that's client side, but do you play on the same machine?
 
I do
Because my laptop unfortunately runs 32 bit OS, I can't play FTB on it
I'm also really sad that my desktop, which is 64 bit, can't play Dune 2000
 
Hmm, you can't emulate it somehow?
 
3:25 PM
Wth...
I tried to move my comment and it keeps disappearing
It's a 16 bit game and I still have a working CD ROM
Oh.... I found a bug.
If you delete a comment and repost it, the system thinks it's a dupe
 
setBugPriority(BUG_PRIORITY_LOWEST);
 
@Rainbolt can't find anything on MSE
 
@Geobits THANK you for that. I love people who know the difference between "not a bug" and "low priority bug"
 
I almost said "not a bug" :D
 
the only little confusing thing for me is calling 'Match' the example which contains a match (but itself not necessarily a match)
maybe in the first one change it to "Match (i.e. contains a match)" or something similar
 
3:29 PM
Ok someone explain why you would ever want to do this in C#:
public Table Draw(ref Table t) { }
We're passing t by reference, doing stuff to it, and then returning it?
 
hmm, no @MartinBüttner ping in my answer, weird
 
I got the ping though
(little arrow and stuff)
the name probably doesn't appear because multiline message
@Rainbolt huh I would have thought C# passes by reference anyway
but I guess that's more like an out parameter
155
Q: When to use ref vs out

ดาวSomeone asked me the other day when they should use the parameter keyword out instead of ref. While I (I think) understand the difference between the ref and out keywords (that has been asked before) and the best explanation seems to be that ref == in and out, what are some (hypothetical or code)...

ah, apparently ref is just both in and out
 
Are we going to post the Fortnightly Challenge today?
 
hm I'm not sure
 
Wow what a huge pain this new mechanic is: mythicspoiler.com/dtk/cards/silumgarbutcher.html
I cast Silumgar Butcher. Does it resolve? Ok. It enters the battlefield. He triggers. Does that resolve? Ok. I'll exploit a guy. He triggers again and I'll target your guy. Does that resolve? Great. Now you can continue playing Magic.
 
3:45 PM
I actually think this site gets more traffic on weekdays.
 
I think there's a Data Explorer query for that, but my intuition says you're right.
Then again, I don't visit much on weekends, so it may be a hive of activity and I'm just unaware of it.
Not as variable as I'd thought, if you count by "new posts per day": data.stackexchange.com/codegolf/query/134423/…
 
@PhiNotPi it does
I'm not sure it's the kind of question people have time to work on during the week
 
4:23 PM
@randomra I forgot to thank you for the feedback... I'll address that later. thanks ;)
 
4:42 PM
@Geobits seems there was a reason longest common substring wasn't posted before :)
 
I'm trying to think of ways to improve the jump operations in my core wars challenge: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/2479/2867
The two-field JMP operation that doesn't even use one of the fields is kinda awkward, but I think it is needed to make the other operations work on it.
 
@Lembik I think he was talking about LCS without restrictions :P
 
Am I reading this wrong? This article says "The following code [...]" or "This code sample" in two places, and there is no actual code.
 
4:58 PM
The code examples are there when you change the version to Sync Framework 2.0, but indeed they aren't there for 2.1.
looks pretty much like a copy-paste error
 
wants a good challenge
 
11
Q: Analyzing Collatz-like sequences

randomraWe define a Collatz-like sequence s with 4 positive integers: n starting value d > 1 divisor m > 1 multiplier i increment (In the original Collatz sequence d = 2 m = 3 and i = 1.) Given these integers s will be created in the following manner: s(0) = n if k > 0 and s(k-1) mod d = 0 then s(...

 
@randomra NO
 

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