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Rusher
Rusher
2:40 AM
 
 
2 hours later…
Quincunx
Quincunx
5:04 AM
I just fell victim to a user with the XY problem: in this question
I solved the problem (Y) the user had, but the user was really trying to do something else (X) that he commented on the other answer. The other answerer edited his or her answer to accomodate the X.
 
 
1 hour later…
luser droog
luser droog
6:23 AM
I was going to play with the dots and boxes on my lunch break, but instead I read the Snobol chapter in this 1975 data structures book. I've been home for two hours, but it all went to the video game. :/
So I've got nothing to share.
Just lurking out.
 
user2179021
user2179021
7:21 AM
@luserdroog not to worry :)
@luserdroog but it's great you are looking at it
 
luser droog
luser droog
7:42 AM
I have done a little playing now.
 
user2179021
user2179021
@luserdroog what do you think?
 
luser droog
luser droog
I'm multiplying out the adjacency matrix now.
To do an edge-vertex incidence matrix, we'd still need that crazy edge stuff to index the edges.
 
user2179021
user2179021
:)
 
 
3 hours later…
New Meta Posts
New Meta Posts
10:31 AM
0
Q: Sandbox-Question: Convert repeating decimal to fraction

flawr The goal is to write a program that accepts a positive fraction in decimal form, e.g.: 4.2 14.013 0.001 which has to be converted to a fraction e.g.: 21/5 1/1000 23/13 so that the greatest common divisor of the numerator and denominator is 1. Shortest code (in bytes) wins. No standard loophole...

discussion sandbox
 
New Sandboxed Posts
New Sandboxed Posts
11:18 AM
0
A: Proposed Question Sandbox - Mark XIII

flawrSandbox-Question: Convert repeating decimal to fraction The goal is to write a program that accepts a positive fraction in decimal form, e.g.: 4.2 14.013 0.001 which has to be converted to a fraction e.g.: 21/5 1/1000 23/13 so that the greatest common divisor of the numerator and denominator ...

 
 
3 hours later…
user2179021
user2179021
1:56 PM
hi
 
ProgramFOX
ProgramFOX
@user2179021 Hi!
 
user2179021
user2179021
I am mostly here to advertise codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/30313/… :)
@luserdroog any luck?
 
 
1 hour later…
undergroundmonorail
undergroundmonorail
3:15 PM
Yo, I haven't been here in a while.
Still got my 122 consecutive days on codegolf.se, just haven't participated at all :P
Exam season, bleh.
 
ProgramFOX
ProgramFOX
Yo @undergroundmonorail!
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
@undergroundmonorail I know that feel
 
Kyle Kanos
Kyle Kanos
3:59 PM
Exams....what are those things?
 
Geobits
Geobits
You know, where you go to the doctor and they check your vision and hearing.
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
...
 
undergroundmonorail
undergroundmonorail
...
 
Geobits
Geobits
:D
 
Kyle Kanos
Kyle Kanos
Hmm, doctor
I haven't been to one since the guy failed to diagnose me with mono
After 3 visits in 3 weeks
That was like a decade ago
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
4:06 PM
While I tend to avoid visiting doctors as well, that's a bit like saying "I got food poisoning at that one restaurant once, so I stopped eating."
 
Kyle Kanos
Kyle Kanos
Hmm, that is an interesting analogy.
 
Geobits
Geobits
I'd argue that food is required to live, while doctor's visits aren't.
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
@Geobits not the point... ^^
 
Geobits
Geobits
I get that you're saying you shouldn't avoid all doctors because of the mistakes of one, but "I'll starve myself to death" is quite a bit of hyperbole from "I don't go to doctors any more".
It's more like saying "I don't go to restaurants any more", IMO.
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
yeah I really wasn't getting at the food-is-remotely-related-to-well-being part at all... restaurants and food were just the first thing that came to my mind.
but yes not going to restaurants any more might have been more appropriate, but now I can't edit any more :P
 
Geobits
Geobits
4:19 PM
Write a userscript that will search/replace that exact phrase and distribute it to all regular users of the chat. ;)
Hmm, a question I answered on Skeptics made it to HNQ. Weird, only one answer and 8 total votes between question and answer.
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
how long has it been on HNQ?
 
Geobits
Geobits
I just noticed it in the sidebar now, but not sure when it actually got there. Asked and answered about 2 hours ago.
I just thought it was odd that it got there with such a low vote total.
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
PPCG question get there with even less votes I think
 
Kyle Kanos
Kyle Kanos
I thought HNQ was views based?
 
Geobits
Geobits
I know it's supposed to depend on site traffic, average votes, and timing among other things, but it's still odd when I see something there with what appears to be low counts for everything.
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
4:36 PM
@m.buettner PPCG + HNQ = weird
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
@Doorknob Yeah, I've noticed that. But so far it's only been good for us I think. (in terms of traffic... I realise, this is part of the reason why code-trolling happened)
actually I'm pretty sure, I found PPCG through HNQ myself
2
 
Geobits
Geobits
Me too.
Along with Skeptics, Parenting, and SciFi/Fantasy
 
Kyle Kanos
Kyle Kanos
@m.buettner That's how I did it too
 
Geobits
Geobits
I'm tempted to gain up some rep on parenting just so I can downvote some of the ridiculous answers I see there, though. Probably not the most constructive use of my time, but I'm constantly shocked by what some people are spouting as advice.
 
Doorknob
Doorknob
Parenting is definitely not a site I'm going to participate on any time soon :P
I don't even remember how I found PPCG.
 
Kyle Kanos
Kyle Kanos
4:43 PM
There's a few billion parents in this world, and just as many opinions about what is the correct way to parent kids
But I'm pretty sure I'm doing it right
3
 
Geobits
Geobits
Oh I know... I can't shake the feeling that it probably shouldn't pass out of beta. There are some examples of good questions on the site, but 80% of them are just pure subjective.
I'm doing it right, too, so there are at least two right ways to do it ^^
 
Kyle Kanos
Kyle Kanos
Is quine pronounced with a "ine" or "een" at the end?
 
Geobits
Geobits
I always pronounce it 'ine', just as in 'wine', but I don't know if that's right.
 
Peter Taylor
Peter Taylor
5:01 PM
@KyleKanos en.wiktionary.org/wiki/quine#Pronunciation It's the same vowel as in my or rice
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
@PeterTaylor damn it, you beat me to it by 5 seconds :D
 
Kyle Kanos
Kyle Kanos
@PeterTaylor Awesome! Thanks
 
Rusher
Rusher
@Geobits Parenting actually coined the term "good subjective". They now abuse it, but there are a few people there who remember what it means.
Something about "personal experiences are better than pure opinion". It didn't make any sense to me.
 
Geobits
Geobits
Well hell, let's start up a Anecdotal Health Care stack while we're at it. "Rubbing this snake oil on my wound improved my joint pain by 400%, it should work for you, too!" :p
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
Small print: "The pain isn't any less than before. But it's better now!"
3
 
Rusher
Rusher
5:22 PM
For anyone that was reading my good versus evil challenge idea yesterday, I decided to let ELU determine the word that I will ultimately use as the abstract class that all submissions in my challenge will be extending.
I'm writing a wrapper class for submissions that want to use other languages. It worked once, so it should work again.
 
rangu
rangu
class AI extends Impressionable ?
 
Quincunx
Quincunx
I vote for Gullible.
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
@Rusher Sociopath? As in, doesn't care if they are good or evil as long as it's for their own benefit? (Sociopathy does kinda mean that, doesn't it?)
 
rangu
rangu
Dark triad
The dark triad is a group of three personality traits: narcissism, Machiavellianism and psychopathy. The use of the term "dark" reflects the perception that these traits have interpersonally aversive qualities: * Narcissism is characterized by grandiosity, pride, egotism, and a lack of empathy. * Machiavellianism is characterized by manipulation and exploitation of others, a cynical disregard for morality, and a focus on self-interest and deception. * Psychopathy is characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, impulsivity, selfishness, callousness, and remorselessness. The dark triad may...
class AI extends Machiavelli
=D
 
Geobits
Geobits
If you're Machiavellian, it means that you'd be doing the manipulating, not being manipulated yourself. This could work as "caring only for yourself", but it doesn't really work for the ELU question, which seems to be asking for someone easily manipulated.
 
Rusher
Rusher
5:30 PM
@m.buettner That implies that the subject is self-serving and doesn't care about the spectrum at all.
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
@Rusher yes, isn't that the case with your bots?
 
rangu
rangu
hm. maybe I misunderstood the challenge.
was it something like: "each round choose to be good or evil. if you're in the majority, you get a point" ??
 
Geobits
Geobits
I would call a good bot responsive (reacting quickly and positively), but again, that doesn't really work for the ELU question, so I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for.
For the ELU question as written, I agree with the comment saying impressionable works just fine.
 
Rusher
Rusher
You are given information, and you have to choose a side. You do care about the spectrum because choosing the right side is important to you, although ultimately self-serving.
It doesn't really matter to me what the bots do. I just want to provide a theatrical back story.
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
@Rusher I don't see how that doesn't fit. You care about picking good or evil, but not because they are good and evil. You just care about picking the side that is currently most beneficial to you, regardless of any moral implication. That does sound sociopathic to me. (If you just don't want to call you class a Sociopath, I can understand that, we don't need to argue about this. :P)
 
Geobits
Geobits
5:42 PM
I don't think your ELU questions really squares with the bots, though. Bots are self-serving, and will only care about "sides" as far as it benefits them (no morals involved). Your question doesn't convey that at all, and instead asks for something meaning they are being swayed by moral arguments.
 
Rusher
Rusher
I guess my thought was that everyone would write a bot that is easily influenced by the behavior of every other bot.
 
rangu
rangu
everyone is correct! bots are both self-serving and influenced by other bots.
 
Rusher
Rusher
And so I have two premade classes, Angel who is always good and Demon who is always evil. Everyone else needs to extend sociopath/Fallible(how do I turn that into a noun?)/insertWordHere.
 
Geobits
Geobits
Human
Mortal
I mean, if we're going with the angels/demons theme, why not make it simple like that?
 
rangu
rangu
it also makes sense that the author of the challenge would view it in terms of how bots influence each other, and potential contestants take the angle of what-my-bot-does.
neat.
 
Rusher
Rusher
5:48 PM
Oh I remember now why I was looking for an adjective.
I decided that extending a class was dangerous because of reflection, so I moved to an interface
So now, everyone must implement Fallible/insertWordHere
It didn't make sense to implement Human (which is how you just reminded me)
 
Geobits
Geobits
Okay, do your base classes of Angel/Demon implement the same?
 
Rusher
Rusher
They will have to, unfortunately, so that I can add them to an ArrayList<Fallible> with giving them special treatment
Even though they are not technically fallible
 
rangu
rangu
'implements FreeWill'
 
Rusher
Rusher
LMAO! I love that
But it should look more like implements FreeWillable
 
Geobits
Geobits
Fallible is a horrible word for this, by the way. Someone who has only good motives/morals can still be fallible.
Infallible means not making a mistake, not unchanging.
 
rangu
rangu
5:51 PM
'implements Agency'
 
Geobits
Geobits
Inflexible is more like what your angels/demons are.
Or constant, immutable, etc.
 
Rusher
Rusher
@Geobits Only if you consider Angels, faith, and justice to be Right. I've seen movies where the Angels were just ruthless idealists, and you could also be fallible towards their end of the spectrum.
 
rangu
rangu
@Geobits the angels and demons have just as much a choice in their behaviour. It's their moral foundations that heavily weight it one way or the other :)
 
Geobits
Geobits
That's what I'm saying, though. Being infallible doesn't have anything to do with your beliefs.
 
rangu
rangu
I do think "Agency" is the word you want here.
from wikipedia: "agency is the capacity of an agent (a person or other entity, human or any living being in general, or soul-consciousness in religion) to act in a world. The capacity to act does not at first imply a specific moral dimension to the ability to make the choice to act"
 
Rusher
Rusher
5:57 PM
@Geobits I don't even understand how one can be infallible if they have no beliefs. If you believe killing a fatally injured person is morally wrong, and you kill a fatally injured person, you are not infallible. An angel who smites evil may be infallible, but a human who murders criminals may be fallible. It has everything to do with human beliefs.
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
I like MorallyFlexible
sounds like a very good euphemism for "sociopathic" :D
 
Rusher
Rusher
public class RusherBot implements MorallyFlexible{}
Anyway, I'll keep writing and see what people on ELU say. Thanks for the input.
 
Geobits
Geobits
@Rusher I should say, being absolutist doesn't make you infallible. Yes, an Angel might think itself infallible, but the Demon would disagree, and think itself infallible. Anyone at all could convince themselves that they are themselves infallible, so I'd say the word has basically no useful meaning at all.
 
Rusher
Rusher
6:12 PM
ACK! After all that it turns out that you can't use the final modifier on Interface stubs.
 
Geobits
Geobits
Just make it a class and forbid reflection :)
 
Rusher
Rusher
I guess I'm gonna have to. I hate enforcing security with policy and then hoping nobody breaks policy with a language that I can't read.
I can't even imagine all the weird loopholes people will find this time.
So this works fine in Java:
final int i;
i = 3;
 
Geobits
Geobits
It's no different than saying "don't hardcode answers" in code-golf. Sometimes it has to be policy. I wouldn't worry about the "language I can't read" problem much. Others can, and will normally call out rule-breakers.
 
Rusher
Rusher
You can declare final variables and then assign them later, but can't declare final method stubs and provide a definition later :(
Is it sad that I'm too scared to ask SO for help with that?
I feel like SO is a pack of carnivorous beasts that don't care about your question at all.
 
Geobits
Geobits
Ah, I always thought them more caring about the question than with the person asking it ;)
 
Quincunx
Quincunx
6:25 PM
@Rusher Why would you want to define the method later?
 
Rusher
Rusher
@Quincunx Suppose you have 50 different children of the Car class, and all you want to do is call "Drive" without worrying about the details of each type of Car.
You define a Car, and you make it abstract because it has an abstract method called "Drive"
That means that every single concrete implementation of car must be able to drive.
 
Quincunx
Quincunx
Then why would you want the method to be final?
 
Rusher
Rusher
I have a reason for not wanting the method to change ever again.
Let's say I am a driver's education teacher and I am teaching you to drive properly.
 
Quincunx
Quincunx
OK
 
Rusher
Rusher
After a while, you lose your right leg.
You lose the ability to drive.
 
Quincunx
Quincunx
6:31 PM
ouch
 
Rusher
Rusher
Now I call "drive" and you throw an exception.
Now I have crashed
Unless I handle your exception I mean
I apologize if this is the worst Object Oriented analogy ever. It's been years since I had proper education so memory is a little fuzzy
 
Quincunx
Quincunx
I do understand Object Oriented Programming.
I'm rather confused at why you need to do this though.
 
Rusher
Rusher
I want to make sure you don't lose your right leg.
 
Geobits
Geobits
That's not the parent class's responsibility, though, is it?
 
Quincunx
Quincunx
Exactly what I was trying to say (but failed at)
 
Rusher
Rusher
6:35 PM
Ok let me rephrase. I want to make sure I, the parent, do not lose MY right leg.
I basically want to say "Every Car has an implementation of Drive that cannot change at runtime."
 
Quincunx
Quincunx
final methods don't let subclasses change them. So why would you want to have a final method that the subclass implements? Ugh.
 
Geobits
Geobits
Ah, so you want to make the child methods final? Yea, that doesn't really work.
 
Quincunx
Quincunx
Sounds like you want Haskell.
 
Rusher
Rusher
I point again to this example:
final int i;
i = 42;
I know I want i to be final, but I don't know what I want it to be just yet.
So I declare it first, and assign it later.
 
Quincunx
Quincunx
Yes. You could do final int i; if(condition){i=0;}else{i=42;}
 
Rusher
Rusher
6:38 PM
I don't see why being final and abstract is such a confusing proposition, given that simple example.
final appears to mean "Once I am assigned, I can never change."
So what is wrong with "Once I am implemented, I can never change."
 
Quincunx
Quincunx
Well, what exactly are you trying to do? If I have a method: void drive(){if (someBoolean){throw new IllegalArgumentException();}someBoolean=true}, the method never changes, but what happens when it is called more than once does change.
So you are looking for "I don't want to implement this now (let the subclasses implement it), but don't let subclasses of subclasses change the implementation". I don't think the base class should worry about this.
 
Rusher
Rusher
I guess you're right. What I want to do doesn't make any sense.
I'll just wave a finger and say "Don't subclass another submission, don't use reflection, don't touch another submissions in a weird way, and don't crash my test machine."
So that they can find a way around my rules and break me anyway.
This is how much faith I have in PPCG -> | |
 
Geobits
Geobits
Of course, another alternative is to not use classes/extension and just do a stdin/out pipe.
 
Rusher
Rusher
I'm writing a wrapper for who can handle communication with non-java entries via STDIN/STDOUT
I named it Rapper, because public class Rapper extends Human was too funny
2
 
Geobits
Geobits
Just sayin, other koth challeneges haven't been as worried/harassed by reflection for a reason.
 
Rusher
Rusher
6:49 PM
They also weren't as popular
That wasn't a stab at anyone. My challenge wasn't better than anyone else's, but it was a lot easier to participate in if you already knew Java.
 
Geobits
Geobits
Yes, but that's why I'd recommend anyone write a simple extendable client in a widely used language, like I did for Hunger Gaming. It was literally "extend this and fill out this method".
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
any rubyists around?
 
Geobits
Geobits
Putting the clients in the same process as the server is more problematic from a security standpoint is all I'm saying.
 
Rusher
Rusher
I thought about doing that. I didn't know if communicating with 100 other processes would be easy or not.
 
Geobits
Geobits
Honestly, it's as easy/hard as communicating with one. The number of processes shouldn't matter to the comm protocol, just ask them serially what to do.
 
Rusher
Rusher
6:55 PM
Wolf, with the GUI removed entirely, completed a game in less than a second with Java only entries. With ProgrammerDan's wrapper and a R wolf, a Javascript Wolf, and a C# wolf, it slowed down to over 10 seconds per run. Imagine if all 50 entries were in other languages.
But I think it would be feasible this time because I am only asking a simple question. Are you good or evil? So maybe you're right.
 
Geobits
Geobits
Well, for Hunger Gaming the limiting factor was definitely not the processing speed of the clients, it was the number/grouping of prey that mattered.
The flocking behavior was the only thing that (noticeably) slowed it down. Once it got down to <100 prey, it ran >5k turns a minute no matter which contestants were left.
Interprocess communications is generally pretty damn fast.
 
Rusher
Rusher
I always thought it was odd that the most useful stream readers in Java are so complicated to construct.
BufferedReader reader = new BufferedReader(new InputStreamReader(myProcess.getInputStream()));
It has that middle layer weirdness.
 
Geobits
Geobits
Yea, a pet peeve of mine. Even for Java, it's a bit ridiculous.
 
Rusher
Rusher
7:11 PM
I just learned though that closing a BufferedReader closes it's underlying stream. So it's complicated, but at least it's responsible.
But if I hook to that stream again it had better be reopened. Now I'm not sure how I feel about that...
 
Geobits
Geobits
Better than the alternative of having to close both the BufferedReader and the InputStreamReader, and having to remember which of the two you might have forgotten, which order to close them in, and what to do if you need to reopen. (IMO)
reader.close() is just... simple.
 
Rusher
Rusher
I was thinking that the Stream should be responsible for opening and closing, and the Readers should simply exist or not exist. That way, if I have multiple threads handling a stream and one of them dies, the rest can go on their merry way. Once every thread is done, the thread's manager can close the underlying stream.
It's nice for the case that I am using it, so my first thought was "Oh, stuff that closes other stuff for me? Great!"
That sounds more like reader.closeAndCloseUnderlyingStreamAndAlsoTakeOutTheTrashWhileWereAtIt()
On the other hand, without closing the underlying stream, it would be more like reader.closeButThisReallyDoesntDoAnythingAtAll()
 
Geobits
Geobits
7:27 PM
OTOH, it's rare (for me at least) that I'm reading from the same stream using multiple readers, so it's nice that closing the reader closes it all. For example, in your BufferedReader line above, if it didn't, you'd have to either create an additional InputStream variable to hold it until you wanted to close, or call getInputStream() again later only to close it.
 
New Sandboxed Posts
New Sandboxed Posts
0
A: Proposed Question Sandbox - Mark XIII

William BarbosaDessine-moi un mouton/Draw me a Sheep Let's pretend you're an aviator whose plane crashed. You're now trapped in the desert. As if this is not bad enough, a creepy kid who came out of nowhere is begging you to draw a sheep. Consider you suck at drawing and you really want the kid to shut up,...

 
Rusher
Rusher
7:50 PM
Nobody has asked a Magic: the Gathering question in three entire days. In fact, Board and Card Games has a grand total of two questions in the last three days.
I can't farm rep like this :(
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
@Rusher life is hard.
3
 
Rusher
Rusher
@m.buettner Remember the day that your friends stopped caring about fertilizing your farm on Farmville? This is worse than that.
 
Geobits
Geobits
Eww. Farmville? Totes lame :p
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
^
 
Geobits
Geobits
And that is my one and only use of the word 'totes'. Ever.
 
Rusher
Rusher
7:55 PM
I'd say the same about fedoras. To each his own?
 
Geobits
Geobits
Better a fedora than a block of dirt.
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
popcorn anyone?
 
Rusher
Rusher
Your house sits on a block of dirt. I hope it disappears while you are sleeping and you get eaten by tremors.
 
Geobits
Geobits
How do you know my house isn't built directly on bedrock? (plus concrete foundation, of course)
Besides, tremors can easily be fooled into running over cliffs.
 
Rusher
Rusher
Ok riddle me this
The stream that you are supposed to read when you create a process is myProcess.getInputStream();
So the process has an Input Stream that you READ from...
How is that not completely backwards?
 
Geobits
Geobits
8:03 PM
The parent is reading input from the child's output.
You couldn't make it an outputstream, because you can't read from that.
 
Rusher
Rusher
I can read your output. That makes total sense to me.
 
Geobits
Geobits
What would you call something that you read from, that acts exactly like every other InputStream?
You certainly can't call it an OutputStream, since that's already taken and you don't read from it.
 
Rusher
Rusher
If the InputStream were MY inputstream, then I would expect input from it.
If the input stream belongs to the process, I would expect to send input to it via the input stream.
I don't usually think the world revolves around me when the method belongs to another object.
 
Geobits
Geobits
The Process class doesn't belong to the subprocess, though.
It belongs to the calling process.
 
Rusher
Rusher
I don't understand. We went from Object HAS A Component to something completely different (relating an actual "process" to a "Process object")
 
Geobits
Geobits
8:08 PM
getInputStream() belongs to Process, which belongs to the main process. So, it should name it according to the main process's view, as input.
I agree that you could get away with wording it either way, but they had to choose one, and I think they chose right.
 
Rusher
Rusher
I guess I'm too used to C++'s cin and cout
If I output stuff, it goes to cout. If someone else wants to read my output, they have to grab my cout.
Likewise, if they want to send me something, they have to feed it to cin.
So I thought if I wanted to send a process some input, I would send it to the "process in"
My output becomes the process's input
 
Geobits
Geobits
Yea, pretty much.
 
Rusher
Rusher
my.output => process.input
But it's the exact opposite :-/
my.input => process.input is how it works in Java
 
Geobits
Geobits
Which makes sense if you look at it as "send <-> receive"
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
ha, I'm dealing with the same stuff in Ruby right now (figured it out now though... I was just missing a good old $stdout.flush)
 
Rusher
Rusher
8:15 PM
How was your popcorn?
 
Geobits
Geobits
Just think of it as:
input = input from process
output = output to process
 
Rusher
Rusher
I know that's how it works, I just don't understand why it works that way.
 
Geobits
Geobits
Because it doesn't see it as different from any other stream. If you want to get something from a file, it's input. If you want to get data from a web request, it's input. If you want it from another process, it's input.
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
@Rusher I hate popcorn
 
Rusher
Rusher
process.inputStream sounds like the input of the process, not input from the process
Why are we treating a member function as though it belonged to me instead?
the input stream belongs to the process. It is the process's input stream.
The process HAS A input stream.
 
Geobits
Geobits
8:17 PM
Because it does belong to you. The Process class does not belong to the actual subprocess, and only exists in the calling one.
 
Rusher
Rusher
No! It belongs to the PROCESS. I am calling Process.getInputStream() to get it.
I don't understand how the dot operator works in your brain.
 
Geobits
Geobits
Process != process
 
Rusher
Rusher
Is that supposed to mean something philosophically?
 
Geobits
Geobits
The Process class is just a utility class to interface with the process. It's not the process itself.
It absolutely belongs to the caller, not the process it represents.
 
Rusher
Rusher
I understand that the process belongs to the caller. I create a process. It is my process.
 
Geobits
Geobits
8:20 PM
Not what I meant.
 
Rusher
Rusher
I HAVE A Process.
Well explain what you mean in object oriented terms then. I understand that my computer desk is not the same as class ComputerDesk but I don't really get why that is important.
 
Geobits
Geobits
If you rename Process to ProcessHandler, it might make more sense intuitively.
 
Rusher
Rusher
If I write an Object to represent some sort of real world object, then from the perspective of the rest of the program, that object IS the real world object.
 
Geobits
Geobits
You're not saying "Hey process, give me your inputstream", you're saying "Hey Process, give me that process' stream as input."
 
Rusher
Rusher
If I create a Car class, I understand that I haven't created an actual car when I make one.
But when I ask for the wheel of the car so I can change it, I don't say "Hey car, give me your car's wheel."
I just say "Hey car, give me your wheel."
Thus myCar.getWheel();
 
Geobits
Geobits
8:24 PM
Right, that's why I said thinking of it as the process's handler might make more sense.
 
Rusher
Rusher
So in other words, you agree that something is off, but you don't agree with my interpretation of how to rename it so that it makes sense.
You would rather change myCar.getWheel() to myCarHandler.getwheel()
 
Geobits
Geobits
Basically. You'll get no argument from me that the standard Java libraries have some naming issues. We might argue over which ones have issues, though ;)
In general I wouldn't change to myCarHandler, no. I'm just saying that's the way it works in this case.
 
Rusher
Rusher
I know the way it works, hence my original comment that it is weird.
I feel like this entire time, you have been trying to convince me of how it works
If I didn't know how it worked, I wouldn't be able to say "How it works is weird"
 
Geobits
Geobits
Even the Javadoc is ugly for this one: "The class Process provides methods for performing input from the process..."
 
Rusher
Rusher
Or this: This method returns he input stream connected to the normal output of the subprocess.
 
Geobits
Geobits
8:28 PM
It doesn't even try to pretend it represents the process itself. It really should be some kind of Handler class.
 
Rusher
Rusher
Or this even: The java.lang.Process.getInputStream() method gets the input stream of the subprocess.
Even you would have trouble arguing that that is wrong.
 
Geobits
Geobits
I'd love to argue some more, but I need to head out. :)
 
Rusher
Rusher
Buettner, you're up. Geobits, tag him in to the ring before you leave.
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
I have absolutely nothing to say about naming decisions in the Java standard library :P
 
Rusher
Rusher
And he taps out! Rusher claims the championship belt once and for all!
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
8:33 PM
congratulations
 
Rusher
Rusher
Thanks. I'm the champion of nothing. :)
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
I thought that but I also thought it would be rude to say it, so I went for "congratulations" instead :D
 
Kyle Kanos
Kyle Kanos
8:44 PM
I hate missing variables :(
 
 
1 hour later…
Rusher
Rusher
9:53 PM
We have that kind of rain going on where you can literally see the wind as it blows. It folds the rain like a bed sheet hanging out to dry.
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
That sounds nice
 
Rusher
Rusher
Is that a cover for something rude that you didn't want to say?
I suspect everything you say now Buettner.
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
;)
no I just like rain
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
10:16 PM
sweet, process communication works fine now, so I can work on the actual controller logic tomorrow. vector racing coming by monday next week!
 
Peter Taylor
Peter Taylor
Nooo! I need to focus on proving the correctness of my optimisations to codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/31707/194 , and vector racing will be a major distraction.
 
m.buettner
m.buettner
Haha, don't worry, I have no doubt you'll find a few loopholes or other insufficiencies in the challenge/controller which will delay the challenge by at least a week ;)
 
Peter Taylor
Peter Taylor
The thing is I'm quite easily distracted. Today I wrote an automated recurrence searcher to see whether that would shed any light on the numbers which can be communicated by stone-throwing. And that distracted me onto revisiting an old program I wrote to look for Riordan arrays in the OEIS database.
 

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