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5:12 PM
@Optimizer you got your ass kicked ;)
or wait, maybe not
 
y not ?
# is a comment
true
 
but that's probably fixable
 
i can defs not reach 32
I tried cyphering that way, but its longer than er . Also, q will be required adding two bytes
 
@overactor as of now, no you can't
 
FIVE GUYS JUST OPENED IN MY TOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!‌​!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!‌​!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!‌​!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!‌​!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!‌​!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
5:20 PM
opened what ?
 
You require addition exclamation marks
 
hmm. I can't tell as the best burger I have eaten is at truffles :(
 
Unfortunately, I have an hour to eat lunch, and Grand Openings aren't very friendly to people who are in a rush.
@Optimizer Truffles Burger Bar in Cornwall?
 
don't bother. just a local shop
 
5:27 PM
Ah nevermind.
 
anyways .. this yes question is bound to get super upvotes sooner or later.
 
The thing about Five Guys is that it beats anything I can make.
 
doesn't even Mc Donalds beat your hand made burgers ?
 
I grill cherry tomatoes, mushrooms, and thick bacon, and add raw onions and cheese. Comes out way better than McDonald's
 
well, I am a vegan
 
5:30 PM
Tried chopping up onions and mixing it into the meat. It turns out that the chopped onions make little tunnels for the juice to escape, and the burger gets dry.
 
@Optimizer It's only 33 you have to beat now...
 
like 1 byte matters
forgive me God, for I have sinned.
@PeterTaylor its so hard making the two parts of the code overlap, but that is the only way , I know of, to beat 33
 
5:49 PM
I was trying to work out if you are talking about a new challenge
but I think I have worked out you are really talking about burgers :)
 
@Optimizer I was pleased to find that rotating my forward cipher code by 69 gives daxwrp~zjxwpcpjh (two non-existent alphanumeric tokens which are ignored, and the ~ which evals the input). But the rotation by -69 is 96MLGESO?MLE8E? which would raise the offset to the 768th power.
 
6:08 PM
@Optimizer Do the combinators have anything to do with combinatorics? Nothing I guess...
 
css combinators ?
 
CJam: 4 32- 95% = -28 . THANK YOU
 
I've removed that tag and added a more relevant one.
 
ahh , my bad
isn't this a question by the same user as the of the question that got closed just a few minutes back ?
 
6:20 PM
I think that's more legit, he gave a specific function for what the program should appear to do.
Imo not a dupe, but not a good question either :P
 
I know, but the weird thing is, i cannot find that question anymore and this guy's profile also does not have it
 
He probably deleted it
 
I can see deleted questions
@Rainbolt why is Y unclear in that ?
 
Even on their profile?
 
not on their profile
 
6:22 PM
@Optimizer "Y" isn't unclear. It could in fact be very specific.
"APPEAR TO DO Y" is unclear.
 
as in ?
 
Can you be more specific?
I hate loaded questions.
 
if Y is clear. then appear to do Y should also be clear IMO
 
Well, the underhanded tag seems to explicitly say that is what an underhanded question is. So while you can say you don't like the tag, I don't think that is a good close reason.
 
code should look like printing sum of odd numbers
 
6:26 PM
@FryAmTheEggman Oh, so if I create a tag for challenges that have no winning criterion, can I post a challenge with no winning criterion?
 
IMO, popularity-contest has a very subjective winning criterion. Can I vote to close all of them ?
 
No, but this tag has existed a while, if you want to remove it (which, btw I would support) I think you have to post on meta, not close some guys question.
 
Why do I have to destroy an entire tag in order to close a single question?
Can't I just vote to close unclear questions when I see them?
 
is there any underhanded question which is clear to you ?
 
That tag wiki is problematic. This has come up before
 
6:31 PM
@PeterTaylor Am I misinterpreting your post when I say that it points to closing such questions as Unclear what you're asking?
I don't want to misquote you.
Nevermind. I don't even want to know the answer to that question. I don't want a rule that "all questions tagged X are good" or "all questions tagged X are bad". I'm totally fine voting on what I see on a case by case basis.
 
6:56 PM
I seriously don' t know why we are giving this one a hard time when we recently warmly welcomed this question
 
I only ever see questions when people reference them in chat. Given that nearly all of the close votes are subjective, it's no surprise to me that two questions would be treated very differently.
 
7:09 PM
@Optimizer I can see the point of the popularity tag
@Optimizer if you get rid of it then you get rid of all sorts of fun questions
 
what's the difference between underhanded and code-trolling?
 
7:25 PM
huh, I got two downvotes...
 
where ?
 
No matter what else happens on this site, SO users will always hate CJam ;)
 
why ?
:(
 
on the yes challenge
 
"Lagnuages made for golfing are cheating!!!1!", etc
 
7:40 PM
Martin also thinks that the question is unclear :/
 
is there actually a distinction between underhanded and codetrolling?
 
my point is that this question is not the question to blame for a tag's fault
all underhanded should be closed in case if you think underhanded is codetrolling.
 
OK
:P
 
I'm not sure where all of this "tag" business is coming from. I voted to close the question.
If you want to throw up a red flag and say "Hey, Rainbolt's logic also applies to this whole other group of questions." then please, go do that on your own time. But don't involve me.
 
7:46 PM
@Optimizer You seem to have a habit of not making a point when you ping me.
I love people who make statements with questions marks at the end (?)
It's a sure sign that, no matter what you say, they won't be satisfied with your response.
 
why not start by closing codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/23250/what-no-error ? it is super broad and it says that "the code must appear to throw an error but actually does not throws any related error
 
Because, as I have stated repeatedly now, I am not going to retroactively look at every underhanded question that has ever been written and consider whether or not it deserves to be closed.
You are being provocative. You obviously won't be happy until I declare war on the entire tag. I'm not going to do that, because it would break my principle: I vote on questions, not on tags.
 
@Optimizer no I actually find the question unclear... he says that even digits are cool if they're together with odd digits... which would include 12. but then he says he wants to only print all odd numbers. and then he says that we should do "something" else, but at the end he says we should specifically print all even numbers.
in addition there's probably half a dozen underhanded challenges, this is an indirect duplicate of anyway.
 
Rain .. yes, that was clearly evident by your first comment. and only until very recent, you were going against all such questions only.
 
11
Q: Has underhanded been getting too much like code-trolling?

professorfishSome time after the Great code-trolling Purge, a huge wave of popularity-contest underhanded questions emerged. Are some of the underhanded questions too broad and hence facing similar issues to those of code-trolling? Bad Underhanded question (too broad?) An example of an underhanded question...

^ @feersum
 
7:56 PM
@MartinBüttner Can you comment that to the question so that the asker knows about it ?
 
@MartinBüttner I didn't really learn anything from this link
 
and yes, that is a little change of rules in between the question
 
@feersum yeah, but I figured it would be the right place to voice your own opinion, since it's been brought up before
(there's even another question that was closed as a duplicate of that one)
 
@Optimizer Wait, are you trying to use my past voting history on other underhanded questions as an indication of how I should vote on this one?
 
the code-trolling tag wiki was more specific, it claims that the code should satisfy the spec in some sense
 
8:00 PM
@Rainbolt I don't even know what you are talking about now.
 
@Optimizer You said that I had a newfound interest in closing "such questions".
 
to me underhanded seems more stupid than code-trolling
Write a program that doesn't work.
 
@feersum I don't really like them either...
 
@feersum I am all in on closing/removing the tag. I also do not find that genre interesting at all.
 
@feersum not really... answers were allowed to be bad in any way, including not working
 
8:01 PM
The thing is that , treating 1 single question with all the loathing seems very unjust to me
 
So I should retroactively vote on every single underhanded question? Just... no!
 
@Optimizer this one is particularly bad
 
I downvoted the dakotas too, lol
 
@MartinBüttner I find "What no error" one the worst.
Its too broad. no clarity on spec
this one is much better than that.
 
@Optimizer I don't understand where you are getting this sense of justice and equality. Not all questions are created equal.
(Even if they do belong to the same tag)
 
8:07 PM
@Optimizer you can delete your comment
I was writing one up in the meantime
 
:D
ok
does posting means posting a question or it can be an answer too ? (for Got a Tablet for Christmas hat)
 
I think even a comment is fine?
 
i some hats, its specially mentioned, post, comment, or edit
 
Well I guess it just means question or answer then, because it only says post
 
finally got around to fixing my caesar cypher
 
8:21 PM
and its much shorter too
no golfing language hate too :P
 
@Optimizer it isn't. I had some trailing spaces in it when I counted
 
:D
 
8:53 PM
@MartinBüttner you have as many silver medals as I have bronze :D
 
I've been active for a bit longer though ;)
 
John skeet has more silver medals than I have rep :/
3
 
hm, I think we should review and some time. They are used quite arbitrarily right now, but a clear distinction between music theory and actual audio processing/generator would actually make sense.
 
I think audio has very high requirements, like only a limited set of softwares, very less languages, or hardwares etc.
thus very less likely to be asked
more appropriately - very less likely to be answered
 
not really... it's not that much harder to deal with than with images. people are just less familiar with. but in any case, I don't see how it's relevant to keeping the tags tidy.
 
9:02 PM
not all languages can infer audio files, right ?
 
infer?
 
read and understnand
 
not all languages can read and understand image files either
and as with images, there are formats that are simple enough to be parsed manually
 
yeah. that and that
which is not possible in audio, I suppose.
 
what if your audio is either silence or a pc speaker beep, each second
i can write that file format for you
(i am an aspiring audio engineer)
 
9:07 PM
@Optimizer what? I said it is possible with audio just as with images
@EricTressler Hah, just 10 minutes ago, I was wondering if you'll ever be back in chat :D
 
oh!
 
eh, i am pretty weird about things like that. i had some job interviews, got sucked into that, then got too stressed out to do much of anything for a month except code and read
 
(yay I got another answer for the xkcd challenge)
 
there goes ur bounty
 
where is the challenge
i was just wishing we could have another tweetable art contest for christmas, i needed something to preoccupy myself
 
9:11 PM
One of the lines of code is plt.xkcd()
 
@feersum yeah, he just said that in the comment
that challenge isn't about reproducing xkcd's art style though
(it even explicitly mentions that there's no requirement to go for this style at all)
it's about rendering clear charts with fancy narrative features
 
oh, that graphic is clearly based on the invasion of russia graphic from Tufte
not by Tufte, I forget the original author's name
but I saw the graphic first in The Visual Display of Quantitative Information
though for single lines, this is already a thing called a crossing diagram
I have a lot of posts to catch up on
 
9:26 PM
there is 1 hat for starting a bounty on 25th. I think I know which question to chose ;)
 
10:23 PM
@Optimizer hm?
@Sp3000 okay, I've finished the first world of Beat.Trip Runner 2 on perfect now. it's actually a lot better. the achievement system is a lot more rewarding (with one exception: getting an achievement in one difficulty doesn't automatically unlock it for easier difficulties, which makes some of them a bit tedious)... it also has a lot more content, and more reasons to go back to previous levels (because you can unlock stuff in previous levels)
and most importantly: the upward stairs are a lot more forgiving then they used to be
 
@MartinBüttner I think that line has enough hints ;)
 
hm nope don't get it... well, I can wait a week...
 
don't tell me Mathematica has built in lexer ?
 
some languages do
 
I wish unary had one too
 
10:36 PM
lol
 
I wonder if I'll get even more hate than what I would have gotten if I had posted a CJam answer :D
there goes my rep cap :/
 
 
1 hour later…
11:49 PM
I'm going to post a program which I'm not 100% sure is correct, and would like to see if anyone can find a counterexample
Is there any efficient way to offer a bounty for someone who demonstrates an incorrect output?
 
give him/her bounty on any random question ?
 
I don't think so
 
how about "shortest program that prints a string for which this other program gives an incorrect answer..." lol
 
how do you find old challenges in genuine need of editing?
@feersum wait, you want to post that as a challenge?
 
joke challenge idea
 
11:53 PM
which challenge are you talking about anyway?
 
@MartinBüttner i found some which required tags which were created after teh question was asked
 
MU puzzle
 
@Optimizer and tag edits count for time lord?
 
not by simply adding a tag
you have to edit it and add a tag
 
@feersum ohhh... I wanted to answer that for ages... but I never figured out how to actually solve it
@Optimizer ah yeah fair enough
 
11:54 PM
MU puzzle ?
 
11
Q: Build a MU puzzle solver

Joe Z.The MU puzzle is a puzzle in which you find out whether you can turn MI into MU given the following operations: If your string ends in I, you may add a U to the end. (e.g. MI -> MIU) If your string begins with M, you may append a copy of the part after M to the string. (e.g. MII -> MIIII) If yo...

 
Is that just trolling?
 
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