« first day (294 days earlier)      last day (4199 days later) » 

J. M.
J. M.
12:46 AM
@Szabolcs There aren't any, IIRC; shouldn't be too hard to make one, tho...
(Also, nice to see you back.)
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
1:27 AM
Hi @belisarius and @J.M. :-)
If I make one, I'll be sure to post it for others to use (if anyone wishes to)
@acl What exactly are you doing with the Kuramoto model, if you don't mind my asking? I'm curious now.
 
acl
acl
@Szabolcs tuning it to a point where it synchronizes and applying some measure of segregation to show that it has
(tuning with some algorithm, that is; not mine)
it's not hard to see how to construct an algorithm to do that of course
 
rcollyer
rcollyer
@acl I guess tag is over with. Hi!
 
acl
acl
@rcollyer hey!
so you need my email right?
 
rcollyer
rcollyer
I have some pictures, if you want to see them.
@acl Yes.
 
acl
acl
ok I'll post my work email then erase it
 
rcollyer
rcollyer
1:39 AM
got it.
I'll send them along sometime tonight. Some stuff to do before then.
 
acl
acl
sure no problem
what happened with the hard drive in the end?
 
rcollyer
rcollyer
As far as I know: dead.
 
acl
acl
and your data?
 
rcollyer
rcollyer
I'm rebuilding what I need on the campus cluster.
Hopefully, it will be enough.
 
acl
acl
ok, if not we can discuss it via email
 
rcollyer
rcollyer
1:41 AM
sure.
 
acl
acl
and the (pardon my language) thesis?
 
rcollyer
rcollyer
@acl I'm gaming the queue, so I think I will be fine. But, we'll see.
@acl in progress, for once. :)
Except for missing data, I have two chapters in.
Will, hopefully, have the third in tomorrow. again, sans some data.
Oh, and the graphs need redoing ... :P
 
acl
acl
that's fine, you'll redo them
 
rcollyer
rcollyer
yep.
I should go, and take care of a few things.
Later.
 
acl
acl
so should I, see you all
 
 
2 hours later…
J. M.
J. M.
3:41 AM
Sanity check: Internal`DeactivateMessages[] and Quiet[] are in fact the same function, right?
(I'm trying to update some old code of mine...)
 
belisarius
belisarius
4:21 AM
@J.M. you here?
@J.M. @J.M. I've a chemical urgency :)
Is this reaction going to happen under normal conditions?
or only this (safer) one
BTW, "normal conditions" strangely means "in my house"
 
J. M.
J. M.
4:42 AM
@belisarius Yes, I will definitely not mix peroxide and bleach without safety precautions...
 
belisarius
belisarius
@J.M. Damn
I need to get rid of bleach smell
Any ideas?
 
J. M.
J. M.
The oxygen produced there isn't ordinary oxygen, but singlet oxygen. Kind of nasty.
@belisarius from what?
 
belisarius
belisarius
You won't believe me ...
bricks
and mortar
 
J. M.
J. M.
Bricks? Why would it be important to get rid of the smell of bleach here?
 
belisarius
belisarius
I said you won't believe me
let me upload a photo
a minute ...
@J.M. These bricks
 
J. M.
J. M.
4:46 AM
Ah, it's an oven. You should have said "oven bricks" and I'd understand quickly. :P
 
belisarius
belisarius
:)
Is there a better option than TNT?
 
J. M.
J. M.
Anyway... I'm not sure if there still are old-school photography shops in there, but if so, you should try asking for "hypo", sodium thiosulfate.
 
belisarius
belisarius
and please ... don't ask
 
J. M.
J. M.
@belisarius If I can't ask, I'd have a hard time advising you. :|
Another possible source would be a pet shop that specializes in fish. Hypo would be in the water treatment used for removing chlorine from tap water.
 
belisarius
belisarius
@J.M. no sulphur dangerous compounds as result?
 
J. M.
J. M.
4:51 AM
Where I live, the aquarium treatment solution is more expensive than buying crystals of hypo from the photography shop, so I tend to buy from the photographer first. (Of course, it might be different there...)
@belisarius Nope, nothing you'd like to inhale or get into your meats would be produced.
 
belisarius
belisarius
good!
@J.M. I mean .. don't ask why I've bleach in there
 
J. M.
J. M.
You'll want a saturated solution of hypo for scrubbing your oven.
@belisarius I actually have a few ideas. but sure... :)
 
belisarius
belisarius
@J.M. Do your ideas contain cats?
 
J. M.
J. M.
@belisarius Not until you brought it up...
 
belisarius
belisarius
@J.M. How much hypo per liter?
 
J. M.
J. M.
4:56 AM
@belisarius "Saturated" means you keep adding hypo to the water until it stops dissolving. If I am to believe the info here (I'm far away from my handbooks, sorry), that'd be 70 g per 100 mL.
 
belisarius
belisarius
@J.M. I'm not proud of my chemistry ignorance, but I suffered a few undergrad courses. I know what "saturated" is, just because I sipped enough NaOH to make me vomit
 
J. M.
J. M.
@belisarius ...that'd have turned your throat into soap. :o Not fun.
 
belisarius
belisarius
@J.M. Thank you a lot. I'll have a toast on you when I can use my oven again
@J.M. I drank 1 l of vinegar to rescue myself from hell
a physicist doing chemistry isn't to be trusted
 
J. M.
J. M.
(FWIW, when I'm giving instructions like this to other people, I bring up the word "saturated" since most of the time people can't be bothered to use a scale for weighing. I.e., just keep dumping the salt into the water until you see crystals at the bottom. Decant and serve.)
@belisarius Ew. :D At least it saved your life.
 
belisarius
belisarius
@J.M. yeah, but my voice wasn't the same anymore :)
 
J. M.
J. M.
5:04 AM
Anyway, no problem. Tell me how your oven fares after the treatment.
 
belisarius
belisarius
@J.M. Yeah! thanks a lot again
 
J. M.
J. M.
(I suppose for drying, you could just let your oven do a slow burn for a few hours...)
 
belisarius
belisarius
@J.M. that isn't a problem!
"hypo", sodium thiosulfate
have to remember
 
J. M.
J. M.
The clerk at the photography shop I buy from doesn't know chemical names, only common ones. So I have to ask him for hypo and not sodium thiosulfate. :)
 
belisarius
belisarius
@J.M. Why "hypo"?
 
J. M.
J. M.
5:09 AM
@belisarius The old name was "hyposulphite of soda". Old-time chemists being lazy and all, they shortened it to "hypo".
 
belisarius
belisarius
@J.M. But it's just Na2O3S2 isn't it?
 
J. M.
J. M.
Well, there's often an extra five molecules of water, but yes. :)
 
belisarius
belisarius
Oh ... they sell it already hydrated ...
of course
 
J. M.
J. M.
Yes, but it will still react with the chlorine fine, so the extra water isn't a problem. :)
And removing the water of crystallization's a bitch, so people mostly don't bother.
 
belisarius
belisarius
and .. it is odorless I suppose :)
 
J. M.
J. M.
5:13 AM
@belisarius The hypo solution will have a faint sulfur smell, but there should be no smell after it reacts with the bleach.
 
belisarius
belisarius
@J.M. mmmm I don't know how much bleach is there ...
 
J. M.
J. M.
Just keep scrubbing with the saturated solution until you don't smell any more chlorine.
 
belisarius
belisarius
@J.M. he! the problem is that chlorine smell comes out only when I light the fire
seems it's deep inside the bricks :(
or when I pour water
 
J. M.
J. M.
@belisarius You might have to repeat treatments if the chlorine smell is deep-seated
So, a cycle of "scrub, heat, scrub, heat..." until the chlorine smell's gone.
 
belisarius
belisarius
@J.M. Ok. I'll try and come back with the results :)
@J.M. BTW. Take a look at this mathematica.stackexchange.com/a/14149/193 may be useful sometime. Thanks again
 
J. M.
J. M.
5:21 AM
@belisarius Already upvoted. :) It's neat.
 
belisarius
belisarius
@J.M. It's a tool. Happened to me a lot of times drawing labels inside a plot only to realize I've to do it again because I wanted to change the plot
 
rcollyer
rcollyer
@belisarius you were cooking cats?!?
 
J. M.
J. M.
I seem to remember there was old code for this purpose by Tom Wickham-Jones... I forgot where it was, tho.
@rcollyer If he were, he'd like to keep that piece of information private methinks. :P
 
rcollyer
rcollyer
@J.M. true. <comment censored>
 
belisarius
belisarius
@J.M. Mine is a quick hack, perhaps I'll spend some time trying to make it robust and add some options, but saved me a few frustrations
 
rcollyer
rcollyer
5:26 AM
:)
 
belisarius
belisarius
@rcollyer Well, no. Now ... do you want to know something about my third wife?
 
rcollyer
rcollyer
@belisarius sure. I'll bite.
 
belisarius
belisarius
@rcollyer hehe ... you'll have to wait until my autobiography is out of press
2
 
rcollyer
rcollyer
@belisarius Oh, well, I'll go back to wanting to strangle the news people reporting on the election. Morons don't know statistics.
 
belisarius
belisarius
@rcollyer Sure, their biz is not knowing
 
rcollyer
rcollyer
5:30 AM
@belisarius it doesn't make good news that way. :)
So, night all.
 
belisarius
belisarius
@rcollyer bye!
 
J. M.
J. M.
@rcollyer If they knew even a shred of stats, they won't be in the reporting business... ;P
 
 
9 hours later…
Sosi
Sosi
2:14 PM
hey guys, anyone around?
 
halirutan
halirutan
2:29 PM
@Sosi Hi
 
Sosi
Sosi
hey, how's it goin!
?
 
halirutan
halirutan
Oh, fine. I thought you maybe have a short question.
 
Sosi
Sosi
ya, i actually did :P
but I solved it in the meantime
 
halirutan
halirutan
That's how it is supposed to work;-)
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
3:10 PM
Good morning!
 
Oleksandr R.
Oleksandr R.
Hello and welcome back @Szabolcs!
 
rm -rf
rm -rf
Hello @Szabolcs :)
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
Hello Oleksandr and RM
Any interesting news from while I was away?
 
Oleksandr R.
Oleksandr R.
Not that I can remember. You've been gone quite a while; I already forgot what happened. :)
 
rm -rf
rm -rf
@Szabolcs I have a diamond, for starters =)
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
3:21 PM
@rm-rf you are moderator now. The moderator elections are over?
yep :-)
 
rm -rf
rm -rf
Belisarius has a new fetish for pickled toads
2
but other than that, it's business as usual :)
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
Oh I saw that too yesterday. I had a lot of toad last month ;-) (spent the month in China). So beware!
 
rm -rf
rm -rf
@Szabolcs Yeah, sometime in late Sept
 
Sosi
Sosi
lol @rm-rf
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
Sjoerd is not a mod any more?
 
Oleksandr R.
Oleksandr R.
3:25 PM
@Szabolcs he decided not to stand in the elections. However due to a cock-up that worked in our favor we have four mods rather than the standard three.
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
I'm using a desktop Mac now and it's a bit annoying that everything (most basic software) seems to cost money. Can't even find a decent djvu reader
@OleksandrR. That should make things easier
I saw the traffic kept slowly increasing
 
Oleksandr R.
Oleksandr R.
@Szabolcs This‌​? Whether it is decent or not I don't know.
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
That's the best one I found, but I ended up running windjview in wine because it can make all pages the same width, even in messed up djvu files with wildly different page sizes
 
Oleksandr R.
Oleksandr R.
@Szabolcs if you're running wine anyway, have you tried SumatraPDF? It can view PDF, DjVu, XPS and various other (mainly ebook) formats.
(I have both WinDjVu and SumatraPDF on my PC, but I mainly use SumatraPDF.)
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
I like Sumatra, I used to use it for writing LaTeX documents. It will auto-reload changed PDFs. I like WinDjView better for djvu though because of its subpixel antialiasing (the latest version). On not too high resolution screens the difference in sharpness is noticeable.
Unfortunately using wine is a pain though ... so I only use it for these broken djvu files with varying page sizes. For the rest, the native viewer is more convenient.
 
rm -rf
rm -rf
3:37 PM
@Szabolcs I use Skim for that. It's pretty decent
What are you using to write and compile tex? I use vim + vim-latex (and open in Skim), but TeXMaker has an integrated editor and pdf viewer, if you're into such editors (texmaker is one of the good ones out there and will readily be my second choice)
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
@rm-rf I found Skim, it's very nice :) Almost finished with the LaTeX environment setup now. Just need to figure out how to precompile the preamble to speed up compilation, and I can have near-real-time preview just like I used to on Windows
@rm-rf On Windows I used to use Vim, and set it up so that it auto-saved the document when I stopped typing for 800 ms. Then a little program called latexdaemon automatically recompiled the changed file (I found latexmk to replace it). Finally the PDF viewer automatically reloaded the PDF, and voila---real time preview :)
(of course vim with vim-latex)
the only feature of latexdaemon I did not manage to replace yet is precompiling the preamble. It speeds up compilation a lot. I'm sure it's possible though, I just haven't had time to read up on how it works in yet.
 
rm -rf
rm -rf
I've never bothered to try and setup latexmk. For some reason, my latex compiles are painfully slow (2 seconds/compile for a journal article, so 6-8s in total), so I manually compile when I've written something substantial
 
Oleksandr R.
Oleksandr R.
That's a nice setup! I take it you were using cygwin?
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
no, latexdaemon is a native windows program
 
rm -rf
rm -rf
@Szabolcs Supposedly, rubber is a good tool to compile latex sufficient number of times and can be setup just like latexmk. Again, it's on my machine, but never used it.
Stack Exchange TeX Blog: Building documents with rubber
Paulo Cereda on December 04, 2011

It’s common to compile our documents a couple of times to ensure, amongst other things, correct cross-referencing and indices. Sometimes, we also rely on a Makefile in order to make things easier. Now enters rubber, a powerful tool to help us on our building adventures.

According to the man pages, rubber  “is  a wrapper for LaTeX and companion programs. Its purpose is, given a LaTeX source to process, to compile it enough times to  resolve all  references,  possibly  running  satellite programs such as BibTeX, makeindex, Metapost, etc.  to produce appropriate data files.” …

 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
3:48 PM
If I manage to set everything up in a convenient way, I'll write up a tutorial on how to do it
 
halirutan
halirutan
@Szabolcs If you need help on OSX I may can help you with some stuff.
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
Thanks! I might have a few questions later. I managed to set up most things so that it doesn't feel slow to work on a Mac any more, but some small things always come up
 
halirutan
halirutan
When you finished you LaTeX installation and maybe want to setup the precompiled thing, we can surely work this out. I don't use it, but I may can help you with it.
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
I'll try on my own first and I'll ask you if I can't manage to get it working. If I do manage, I'll write it up in a blog post.
 
Oleksandr R.
Oleksandr R.
Must be nice to use a Mac. Most Linux apps probably work quite straightforwardly. On Windows things are much more awkward (like with that qhull thing).
 
halirutan
halirutan
4:04 PM
@OleksandrR. The real nice thing in OSX is, that I can use it like my Windows since they have a Unix in the back.
 
Oleksandr R.
Oleksandr R.
@halirutan on Windows, cygwin is very good. The problem is that programs compiled in the cygwin environment don't really operate with ordinary Windows apps very well (if at all). On the other hand it's better than the Windows implementation of Unix, which would be okay except for the fact that it has many bugs and hasn't been updated for a long time.
 
halirutan
halirutan
@OleksandrR. We're using cygwin here too, because my colleagues are Windows guys too. Although, for my own Mathlink programs I let CMake create all the NMake build scripts. This works like a charm if it is set up correctly once.
 
Oleksandr R.
Oleksandr R.
Hmm, interesting. I just use MinGW gcc and GNU make in the cygwin environment.
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
4:19 PM
Yes, that aspect is definitely very nice: real unix combined with a hassle-free GUI.
 
halirutan
halirutan
@OleksandrR. I searched really long for a way how I can easily compile one project in Linux, OSX and Windows with only a few steps. CMake was the solution for me.
I mean, I have to find the Intel Compiler, find doxygen, find different versions of Mathematica and this all for three different set-ups.
@Szabolcs And be aware of the fact, that you may get addicted to it faster than you want ;-)
 
rm -rf
rm -rf
@halirutan I can attest to that... I switched from Windows/Linux to Mac about 4 yrs ago and now I probably won't use anything else (although I'm fine with using linux for work)
Windows 8 seems like a refreshing change (last version I used was XP), although I don't know how much I'd like the tiles if I had to work with them every day
 
Oleksandr R.
Oleksandr R.
@halirutan I like the Intel compiler on Linux, but it costs (a lot of) money on Windows and Mac, so nowadays I use gcc instead.
 
halirutan
halirutan
@rm-rf But I still think, the right tool for the right thing.. and I assume I would get excited to see someone who really can handle his Windows.
@OleksandrR. I buy it from my budget. I wouldn't if I had to pay for it from my money.
 
Oleksandr R.
Oleksandr R.
4:37 PM
Also, the Intel compiler behaves like Visual C++ on Windows, but gcc on Linux. Not sure how that affects things but you certainly can't use GNU extensions as are commonly encountered in Linux software.
Oh! Intel compiler supports C99 whereas Visual C++ only allows C89. I can imagine that helps a lot with portability because nobody outside the Windows world seems to write to C89 standards any more.
 
 
2 hours later…
Guillochon
Guillochon
6:40 PM
Hi, any of y'all ever use eventlocator in NDSolve?
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
@Guillochon I have, but I forgot how it works ...
@halirutan What is typically the best way to install command line utilities on OS X? Should I use MacPorts? Or fink? Or something else? Or just get the executable and put it in ~/bin and change $PATH? (This time I'd just like to get cmake.)
 
acl
acl
@Szabolcs I'd put it in ~/bin and change the path accordingly
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
6:56 PM
@acl Since you're also a Mac user, another question: is there a usual way to uninstall things that came with an installer and didn't provide an easily discoverable uninstaller? For example, the DJVU browser plugin.
 
acl
acl
don't know
but look in ~/Library/Internet Plug-Ins/ and /Library/Internet Plug-Ins/ and remove it from there
also you can check where it installs things from the installer (depending on the installer)
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
@acl OK, so probably no standard way then. What about changing the path? Just edit ~/.profile like on Linux?
 
acl
acl
@Szabolcs that works for the terminal. GUI programs use a different path, if you want thtat
ok so that plugin installs stuff at: /Library/Internet Plug-Ins/NPDjvu.plugin (or maybe ~/Library etc), in the Applications folder and a spotlight importer at /Library/Spotlight/ or maybe ~/Library/Spotlight/
(you may wish to leave the last one in place so you can find stuff in your djvu files when you search)
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
7:15 PM
@acl Thank you for that information, but please do not spend time on these! My question was general, and I thought you can answer right away. I can work out the details, and I don't want to take up your time... What am really interested in though is how you can figure this information out from the installer. I'm going to take a closer look at that .pkg now ...
ahamm ... so the .pkg is really a directory, not a file. And there are shell scripts inside which give lots of clues.
Still getting used to the fact that some things that look indivisible are really directories on Mac (like applications)
 
Guillochon
Guillochon
@Szabolcs Well, I'm just having trouble using it with arbitrary precision
Different question: How do I apply a list of functions to a single argument?
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
@Guillochon have you tried increasing the WorkingPrecision?
Through[{f,g}[x]]
 
Guillochon
Guillochon
7:30 PM
@Szabolcs Yes, that's actually what I did for the actual method I'm using
@Szabolcs But somehow the eventlocator isn't using that
@Szabolcs Sorry, as you might imagine the code is a little bit hairy...in general I'm just having problems combining the "EventLocator" method with any of the non-default NDSolve methods
to get the particular method I am using to work, I am increasing the workingprecision/precisiongoal
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
Unfortunately I couldn't do much with that without trying it myself ... I haven't worked with it for a while.
github.com/shadanan <-- some useful Mathematica things
 
Guillochon
Guillochon
blegh, SymplecticPartitionedRungeKutta is slow
 
acl
acl
@Szabolcs yes that's what I did
 
Guillochon
Guillochon
8:02 PM
NDSolve`LSODA is not a valid submethod
sigh
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
 
Guillochon
Guillochon
Hmm, I don't event want to use this LSODA thing...
how do i just get a list of the ndsolve methods? i can't find it anywhere in the documentation
nm, google found it
 
Guillochon
Guillochon
8:28 PM
hmmm...OK, if i want to use another NDSolve controller, but still stop the integrator when some condition is met, is that possible without using the eventlocator controller?
it seems that the integration methods available are very limited when using the eventlocator controller...
perhaps i can use stepmonitor?
 
Guillochon
Guillochon
8:57 PM
@Szabolcs So all I think I need is to change some variable in NDSolve`state to "StopIntegration"...but the NDSolve`state variable is sort of obfuscated...
 
 
2 hours later…
halirutan
halirutan
10:39 PM
@Szabolcs I'm using MacPorts, but I heard fink is quite nice too. And yes, you definitely use something like that. If you choose MacPorts, I can help you with most stuff I assume.
 
rm -rf
rm -rf
I'll also throw in a word for homebrew (I like it better than macports) (cc @Szabolcs)
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
So I guess these are pretty much interchangeable, and it won't make a big difference which one I choose?
 
halirutan
halirutan
@Szabolcs You should make a list of important tools you want and check whether they are available, but yes, I'm quite sure they all support the most stuff.
CMake is version 2.8.9. in MacPorts.
One thing to look out is maybe what LaTeX stuff is supported. In MacPorts I could find everything I have in my ubuntu distribution too.
 
rm -rf
rm -rf
@halirutan do you use the gigantic MacTeX for your latex needs?
 
halirutan
halirutan
@rm-rf I have it installed, but it does not contain all the extra-things I have some documents.
Therefore, I have to MacPort of texlive too.
@rm-rf I cannot give you and explicit example, but I remember I had to install some additional stuff for the classic-thesis style I'm using.
 
rm -rf
rm -rf
10:49 PM
For some reason, I find my latex compiles to be terribly slow (~2s/compile) for a journal length article with no unusually heavy tex computations or tikz
 
halirutan
halirutan
It's on Windows, right?
 
rm -rf
rm -rf
Mac
 
halirutan
halirutan
Really? Hmm, I saw the compiling process on Win on my colleagues machine which was horribly slow once.
And you have tried to compile on comandline or do you use MacTex only?
I mean the TexShop frontend or whatever comes with it.
 
rm -rf
rm -rf
I think all the front ends use the same tex distribution. It's the texlive version that comes with mactex
 
Guillochon
Guillochon
Pretty close to giving up on NDSolve... :-/
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
11:36 PM
@halirutan A naive questions, but do any of these three systems offer precompiled binary packages, or will I need to let them compile everything from source (slow)?
 
halirutan
halirutan
@Szabolcs I don't know about homebrew, but fink seems to support both, binaries and source-packages.
Macports is source only when I'm right.
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
@halirutan Why don't you use Fink instead of MacPorts then? Package availability, newer package versions?
 
halirutan
halirutan
@Szabolcs Historical reasons. I saw macports first and got used to it.
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
ah I see
 
halirutan
halirutan
You could try fink and give feedback. I may switch then..
(I get a brand new MacBookPro in one or two weeks ;-)
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
11:41 PM
me too :-)
 
halirutan
halirutan
@Szabolcs But you may want to take at least a fast look at:
and
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
This guy says that most new packages are not available as binaries in fink these days
those are useful links, thanks!
 
halirutan
halirutan
@Szabolcs The installing and updating is very slow, thats really annoying. On the other hand, most things I need worked from the start.
I think I can live with a sudo port selfupdate or sudo port upgrade outdated every once in a while.
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
MacPorts packages seem to be a bit more up to date than the fink ones, at least those ones I looked at
I need to go home for dinner now, bye!
 
halirutan
halirutan
@Szabolcs I remember I had to use a very new version of CMake which was not supported in the package management of Ubuntu, but MacPorts had it.
Guten Appetit and bye.
 

« first day (294 days earlier)      last day (4199 days later) »