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8:00 PM
@R.M Interesting. Evil twin?
 
R.M
The answer might most likely be some stupid race conditions but nevertheless, interesting
 
I think a Dissociative identity disorder is a nice possibility
 
deleted a few but not all.
 
@SjoerdC.deVries Please check my English
41
Q: How to peel the labels from marmalade jars using Mathematica?

VerdeHow can I detect and peel the label from the jar below (POV, cylinder radius, jar contents are all unknown) to get something like this, which is the original label before it was stuck on the jar?

 
@verde Looks like English to me. And more appeeling (sic) than the previous version
 
8:22 PM
@SjoerdC.deVries Sorry for the delays. This chat comes and goes.
 
no problemo
btw Bitte is German
 
@Verde Third world
 
Crisis everywhere. I hope v9 arrives before the end of the world.
 
@SjoerdC.deVries We actually haven't got the slightest idea if v9 is coming in a couple of months or years, right?
 
@SjoerdC.deVries Natürlich
 
8:26 PM
@rojo Just hearsay about gossip about rumours
combined with yearning and wishful thinking
@rojo @verde Today, my son got his first Spanish lesson at school (some additional voluntary stuff; it's not in the main curriculum). His teacher is someone from Uruguay. So, how does the local dialect there relate to General Civilized Spanish™ ?
 
@SjoerdC.deVries Uruguayans are plain savages. They speak quite well, but eat children for starters
 
I thought so. Have to warn my boy about this.
 
To survive they reproduce before they get eaten, at about 10yo average
Survive as a species I mean
 
@SjoerdC.deVries Useless, Uruguayans use Latin American Voodoo to make kids forget all you say
 
@Rojo Jeez, I didn't know it's that bad
I'll contact the school board then
 
8:38 PM
@SjoerdC.deVries Sure, you can mention us as your info source: Rojo and Verde
 
Argentina is bad judging from your stories (and yourselves of course), so Uruguay must be indescribable
 
@SjoerdC.deVries They worship windmills and use wooden shoes
 
Well, anyways, I heard Mexican Spanish is quite different from Castillian Spanish
Wouldn't know the difference
 
@SjoerdC.deVries Now seriously: there isn't a single "correct Spanish". Local variations abound, and as far as they are grammatically correct ...
 
@Rojo I think sooner rather than later assuming the beta didn't throw up any serious problems. (I'm not part of it, so I don't know.)
There are people here who are beta testing, but presumably they're not at liberty to disclose that fact.
 
8:44 PM
@verde As long as a courtesy in one version isn't a curse in another I guess it's OK
 
@OleksandrR. Anything else you know for a fact about what's coming despite the fact that noone involved said anything?
 
@SjoerdC.deVries Ohhh there is a whole universe of local insults. You can't be free of that
 
@Rojo I think we know beyond all reasonable doubt about the FEM and theorem prover. That's all.
 
@OleksandrR. I'm not in a position to either deny or confirm this
I should be in politics
 
@OleksandrR. Thanks
@OleksandrR. I just saw your comment
Yeah, that's what I meant with that it doesn't respect scoping constructs. Perhaps that could be done by injecting an arbirtary symbol inside the expression, say blah, then wrapping it in Module[{blah}, Hold@expr], extract the symbols from both and only the intersection of both lists of symbols are actually extracted
 
8:51 PM
@verde An Aruban housemate once told me to use "conjo di bo mama" as a greeting. I was a bit suspicious about that.
 
but I won't get to it now. Perhaps simon just wanted to overcome the problem of extracting the already dfined symbols
Based on his other answers he knows what he's doing so, there's no need to overhelp
 
@SjoerdC.deVries I suspect Aruban's may become extinct if they transit the world saying things like that
 
If it was possible to follow a particular user's answers, him would be one of the firsts I'd subscribe to
 
@Rojo I think Leonid's dependency graph generator probably solves this problem reasonably well. The remaining difficulties I think will be things like variables called Subscript[x,2] and so on. For those you need to rename them or wrap them up in Internal`LocalizedBlock.
 
@OleksandrR. I think it's fine enough to forget about those variables that aren't a symbol or make the user list them as a pattern in an option
but, in that case, the search would have to be preorder depth first, not postorder like Cases does
 
8:59 PM
@Rojo yes, I agree. I would not be surprised if Simon knows that it's a common enough thing to want to do and that a lot of people probably already had solutions they were using (or at least approaches to the problem), and so asked this question to get a survey of the methods people use.
 
Makes sense
I don't think I ever used something like that so far
The high number of question upvotes backs you up
 
It's not something I use regularly either. But clearly we both thought of the same general method, so...
 
R.M
I'm sure there is some internal function that already does this or something similar... I remember certain functions like ProbabilityDistribution automatically replace x with \[FormalX] regardless of the value of x
 
Let's ?** it up
 
@R.M in this case context is usually very helpful. Variables that explicitly represent parameters of a distribution or some other mathematical object are much easier to deal with.
 
R.M
9:04 PM
@Rojo DSolve`DSolveToPureFunction
and for RSolve... not sure what they do yet :P
 
I just remembered I wanted to ask something
Why Factor can't give an exact factorization of, e.g Factor[x^2 - 2]
without the extension option with an explicit Sqrt[2]
when Solve can easily find the roots?
Is there some option to make Factor smarter?
 
R.M
@Rojo "factors a polynomial over the integers." <-- probably why
 
Ok
What about how?
 
R.M
The docs suggest Extension -> Automatic should be sufficient, but that isn't the case here
 
@R.M that only works if the value explicitly appears in the polynomial. Here it doesn't.
 
9:18 PM
factor2[expr_] :=
Factor[expr,
Extension ->
Cases[Variables[expr] /. Solve[expr == 0], _?NumericQ, {2}]]
Seems to work for that particular case at least
It still feels weird, there should be some built-in way
 
1
Q: Picking questions for the Site Minicards

VerdeJin intends to print some site minicards for promoting Mathematica.SE at the WRI conference. I suggest to posting here the questions we consider appropriate, and voting on those. Jin's guidelines are: The idea is that when we pass out these cards to people, the questions are so interesting ...

 
 
1 hour later…
10:31 PM
@chris I'm actually still tweaking the overall algorithm to be (more or less) foolproof. I'll probably post it here later.
@Verde My Gravatar is a trefoil knot, you insensitive clod! ;P
 
@J.M. It served its purpose
@J.M. I think it was old Niels Bohr who learned to knit because he was interested in topology
 
@Verde A fine choice of hobby, too.
 
@J.M. The anecdote runs that the wife of another physicist (Gamow?) was teaching him, when he said -"wait ... there is an equivalent way of doing this"- and showed her what he thought a brilliant discovery. She answered -"That is called reverse knit, and is for dummies"-
 
@Verde I haven't heard that anecdote before. Awesome.
 
@J.M. Here you have a version of the same anecdote, physics swapped:
Dirac discovers purling
Another time, Dirac was watching Anya Kapitza knitting while he was talking physics with Peter Kapitza. A couple of hours after he left, Dirac rushed back, very excited. "You know, Anya," he said, "watching the way you were making this sweater I got interested in the topological aspect of the problem. I found that there is another way of doing it and that there are only two possible ways. One is the one you were using; another is like that. . . . " And he demonstrated the other way, using his long fingers. His newly discovered "other way," Anya informed him, is well
 
10:50 PM
@Verde Ah, I found the Bohr anecdote I remember... here
 
@J.M. Oh yes! That is Gamow's book. A jewel
 
Indeed! I couldn't find my copy here; lucky that Google has it...
 
My kid is studying orbitals with a friend besides me. They haven't explained them anything about QT, the exclusion principle, ... nothing. Grrr. It's all magic
@J.M. I have it in Spanish :)
 
@Verde How old is this kid of yours?
 
13
 
10:56 PM
Orbitals at 13? They start young, I see...
 
@J.M. But it is useless this way
 
You have to admit that much of the subtlety will fly over their heads, unless they are quite talented...
...but that begs the question of why they're being taught that when it's not yet their time.
 
@J.M. But at least they could mention something about why s,p,d,f are not a continuum, and why the ionization energies are so different between elements
bah ... I am getting grumpy
 
(To be fair, I already had a fuzzy idea about s,p,d,f orbitals (and I've even seen the spherical harmonics pictures) when I was 12 or so, but I did not encounter the subtleties until I was 16 or so...)
 
@J.M. I think they are teaching that because they are afraid of teaching real things
You know. Get an acid and a base. See what happens
Let's play with metallic Na
 
11:01 PM
@Verde I suppose it's easier to ask the kids "what are the four orbitals?!" in the final exam. Lazy, see...
 
I guess so. It is a pity
 
@Verde I was tossing pieces of sodium in toilets back when I was a callow youth... :D
 
:D
 
(Don't ask why I had sodium to begin with.)
 
I never ask obvious things
You used the Cl in salt to make HCl
 
11:11 PM
Haha
(don't ask)
(I just felt like sharing the laughter)
 
@Rojo You are getting worse
 
@Verde As opposed to? ;)
 
@J.M. No alternatives, sorry. Worse is usually a comparative. But in this case is fate
 
acl
@Verde well, why are they not a continuum?
 
@acl Because Newton was wrong
 
acl
11:23 PM
@Verde no seriously. in fact simplify it, take a 1d potential well, infinite walls, why are the levels discrete?
 
Jin
@Verde thanks for posting that on meta!
 
@Jin :)
 
acl
@Verde turtles all the way, the way you're going :)
but I am not sure what the point is of the orbitals at 13 years old, unless it's to get them interested
 
@acl Sorry ... no cultural reference here
 
acl
@Verde here:
A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise."
The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!"
on the orbitals, my chemistry teacher made a point of discussing whether the orbitals exist or not if they're occupied; I don't remember which she claimed. but she clearly thought it an important point
had a phd from (I think) Imperial, too...
even then I could tell it was rubbish (although I already thought most of what I was told was rubbish, so...)
 
Jin
11:28 PM
 
@acl Orbitals don't exist. Only in books
@GustavoBandeira yep
 
acl
@Verde and then only when you look at them
 
I'm trying to do the horizontal shifts but I'm still lost.
 
@acl Nahhh you have to observe them in total obscurity
 
R.M
11:29 PM
@GustavoBandeira if the function won't shift, shift the paper
 
@GustavoBandeira x -> x-a
@GustavoBandeira a circle x x + y y ==1
shift it
(x-a) (x-a) + y y == 1
 
According to the book, it seems that the function plot "walks" lateraly and it's drawing keeps the same proportion.
 
acl
@GustavoBandeira think of it this way: suppose you know how f(x) looks. then, f(x-1) will do the same thing as x, except that what happened at x will now happen at x-1. so, what was at 0 will now be at -1
 
But, it doesnt seem it's walking.
See:
f[v_] := Plot[x^2 + v, {x, -7, 7}, AxesOrigin -> {0, 0},
PlotRange -> Automatic]
g[v_] := Plot[(x + v)^2, {x, -7, 7}, AxesOrigin -> {0, 0},
PlotRange -> Automatic]
{Table[f[v], {v, -30, 30, 15}],
Table[g[v], {v, -30, 30, 15}]} // TableForm
This code has a vertical and horizontalshift.
 
g[v_] := Plot[(x - v)^2, {x, -6, 6}, AxesOrigin -> {0, 0},
PlotRange -> Automatic, PlotRange -> {{-6, 6}, {0, 20}}]
{Table[g[v], {v, -3, 3, 3}]} // TableForm
 
acl
11:34 PM
@GustavoBandeira maybe these are easier to understand:
ClearAll[f];
f[x_] := x^2
Manipulate[
Plot[f[x - a], {x, -5, 5}, PlotRange \[Rule] {0, 25}], {a, -2, 2}]
Manipulate[
Plot[f[x] - a, {x, -5, 5}, PlotRange \[Rule] {-5, 25}], {a, -2, 2}]
 
Anyone can explain what does it mean vectorized here:
vectorized
38
Q: Artistic image vectorization

faleichikThe question is how can we use Mathematica to create vectorized versions of low-resolution images? The goal is to get an image suitable for quality printing at any resolution. Since "true" vectorization performed by various specialized software is a tough problem, I suggest to consider "artistic...

 
R.M
@Verde I think he means using graphics primitives so that it can be rescaled without loss of quality
I still haven't understood how wxffles' answer is a vectorized approach
 
@R.M yep. I am a bit lost
 
R.M
moving the paper works too :D
 
11:38 PM
You guys are awesome.
 
R.M
SetAttributes[hshift, HoldAll]
hshift[func_, var_, a_] :=
 Plot[func, {var, -4, 4},
  Ticks -> {Function[{min, max},
     Join[Table[{i - a, Style[i, 12], {.0125, 0}}, {i, Ceiling[min],
        Floor[max]}],
      Table[{j + .5, , {.0075, 0}}, {j, Round[min], Round[max - 1],
        1}]]], Automatic}]
hshift[x^2, x, 1]
 
Verde
On your code, the function does not seem to "walk" is there something i'm not seeing?
 
yep yep
 
acl
@GustavoBandeira the axes are being shifted. he's winding you up, is my guess
 
R.M
@GustavoBandeira what is walking here?
 
11:41 PM
@GustavoBandeira Sorry, but it seems I don't quite understand what you want
 
acl
@GustavoBandeira glad to be of help :)
 
@Verde Run acl's code.
 
@GustavoBandeira Mine is doing the same ... only that I plotted only three positions
 
There's a diference on yours and acl's code.
acl put the shift variable here: f[x - a]
You put it here: (x - v)^2
That's why the proportions change.
 
acl
@GustavoBandeira he just didn't fix the axes, so they get shifted, hiding part of what is going on
 
R.M
11:43 PM
@GustavoBandeira what's the difference?
Evaluate f[x-v]
 
@GustavoBandeira Seems you are getting it wrong
both are the same
 
acl
@GustavoBandeira no the proportions are just a result of mathematica's automatic scaling of the axes, if you tell it not to (as I did) it's clearer
 
@acl I kinda imagined it could be this.
 
R.M
yet you blamed Verde... :P
 
@R.M Nope....
 
11:45 PM
@R.M I deserve it.
 
acl
@R.M that's OK, @Verde is wrong always, by definition
 
@R.M I said the same behavior wasn't happening on his plot.
 
acl
@Verde yep. you and that nasty reprtile, yoda
 
I didn't think it was his fault
 
@acl flagged. you are suspended
bang!
 
acl
11:46 PM
source of all that's evil
@Verde I refute your assertion thus!
 
@Verde But you're not a moderator.
 
R.M
@GustavoBandeira hang around here longer and you'll know Verde
 
@GustavoBandeira I am a moderator in disguise
 
Is acl on the brink of banning? (I hope this is the word)
 
acl
@GustavoBandeira ah no verde is just being a bit of an arse, don't mind him
 
11:48 PM
@acl Continue with that attitude and your suspension will extend to your family till third degree
3
 
acl
@Verde hm, my mac has, as the second meaning of arse: "a stupid, irritating or contemptible person"
@Verde an interesting concept actually
 
Verde wishes to execute Quiet[acl]
 
@GustavoBandeira I don't mind if acl is quiet or not, whilst he doesn't do it here
 
acl
@Verde hang on, how can I neither be quiet nor not be quiet here?
 
@acl That is YOUR problem
 
R.M
11:51 PM
@acl Schrödinger's silence
 
acl
(hangs head in contemplation)
(evaporates in puff of contradiction)
PUFFF
 
I WON
 
acl
just joking
 
damn
 
11:52 PM
Are you guys on a happy moment in life?
 
R.M
@GustavoBandeira I guessed it was 4:33
 
You guessed right. =D
 
acl
@GustavoBandeira nice tune
 
Let's try to make a remix in Mathematica.
Quiet[a={};]
Done!
 
acl
@R.M pfft, I wrote something similar when I was 8
 
R.M
11:55 PM
@GustavoBandeira Pause[273]
 
acl
a fugue in 42 voices, actually
 
Music is made with sounds and silences - Cage's music is made ONLY with silences!
 
R.M
@GustavoBandeira your primitive brain just can't understand the music
 
acl
@GustavoBandeira the line between genius and idiocy is thin indeed
 
It's so unusual!
It seems cage was good, this is the only musical trolling he made.
 
acl
11:59 PM
@GustavoBandeira and versatile; 4:33 can be performed on any instrument
 
Amazing fact: Do you guys believe that the sheet music of this "song" is comercialized?
 
acl
Conceived around 1947–1948, while the composer was working on Sonatas and Interludes,[2] 4′33″ became for Cage the epitome of his idea that any sounds constitute, or may constitute, music.[7] It was also a reflection of the influence of Zen Buddhism, which Cage studied since the late 1940s. In a 1982 interview, and on numerous other occasions, Cage stated that 4′33″ was, in his opinion, his most important work.
 
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