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12:01 AM
@Verbeia Who is Elizabeth Shack ?
@Verbeia How can you invite people by email? Has anyone invited belisarius?
 
@Szabolcs if you go to the main page as opposed to the newest questions page, there is a box for emailing invitations, but it requires an email address.
I don't know who she is, but she followed the proposal since its launch and had a working blog link in her profile. Given the post she wrote, I expect some interesting non-standard questions from her. She is active on the Writers.SE.
I am just being self-appointed Chief Membership Officer again :)
 
:)
 
"site pimp". :D
 
Elizabeth is a very nice lady who works at WRI and is married to Jeremy. She used to sit about 3 desks away from me.
 
12:20 AM
@MikeHoneychurch Well there you go - I had no idea she works at WRI
 
I sure hope this doesn't become common. I'm not too fond of code being a picture instead of being directly copyable.
 
should be copyable with a picture as well if needed (to emphasize something that gets lost in the formatting here)
 
I tend to use InputForm[] anyway for most Mathematica stuff on SE, unless how something looks on the frontend is critical to the answer.
BTW: for those proposing tag wiki edits, you can try drawing attention to them here on chat so people with approval powers can act on them promptly.
 
1:21 AM
Congratulations to @LeonidShifrin first to 1000 rep!
@JM I have done a few tag wiki edit proposals. See also my meta question about this.
 
Hi, @Verbeia. Long time, no chat.
 
Hi @rcollyer is it really? It seems like I've been here quite a bit lately (bad Verbeia!)
 
@Verbeia don't go hurting yourself, on my account. unless you like that sort of thing.
But, seriously, we tend to miss each other.
 
@rcollyer mwhaha no, I don't like that sort of thing. It was just a scold not a ... something that belongs on that other private beta SE site
 
@Verbeia :)
 
1:34 AM
speaking of ass-whupping though, did you see what I wrote about relative traffic on the beta sites?
 
@Verbeia yeah, I did. At the moment, we're the 4th hottest proposal on Area 51!
and, still hotter than sex
and poker.
 
I think the proposers of those two sites might be a bit disappointed.
 
We're not #1?
By what standard? For a 3 day beta this site sure kicks ass. (The wording seems appropriate.)
 
Not at the moment, beta's tend to be a little less steamy than earlier proposals.
Um, sorry about continuing the sex metaphor.
@JM Commented on the post, asking him to move it into a code block.
@David I believe activity level on either Area 51, itself, or on the beta site.
 
@David I have no idea how they weight it, but it must be some combination of activity on the site and new followers. We have had several people start following it, waiting for the public beta.
 
1:45 AM
@Verbeia All approved.
 
@Verbeia I added an answer to your question regarding on meta. I think may be most appropriate.
 
@rcollyer I agree, that is a good suggestion
 
This question is an excellent example of "more than one way to skin a cat" in Mathematica...
 
@Verbeia do you have examples of what would be tagged system, but not system-core?
@JM that cat was well skinned. And the highest voted answer was a well duh moment for me. Completely forgot about InterpolationOrder -> 0.
 
@rcollyer not exactly, but I can imagine people tagging system when they should tag configuration - so imposing it as a tag synonym might confuse people. it is one we will have to watch
@JM and great for the answer ratio :)
 
1:52 AM
@Verbeia How about not using system at all?
 
I'm hoping for more questions with more than one working method as answers myself... :)
I'd say is a tad ambiguous myself.
 
I just added a question on meta about posting code as a picture vs. code-block, per @JM. Thoughts?
@JM me too.
 
@rcollyer I forgot to mention, if you look at the Area 51 main page in newest order, the contrast between us and almost everything else proposed in the last nine months is amazing. The other three betas that started recently were all proposed over a year ago.
@rcollyer can we enforce that people never use a tag?
 
@Verbeia We can have a tag "burninated." But, I think it requires a moderators approval.
Ask @yoda.
 
or @DavidZaslavsky.
 
1:57 AM
@JM yes, very true.
 
@rcollyer answered
 
@rcollyer easier said than done :) And no, moderators cannot do it.
the short answer from SE is, "no, not happening.". The long answer is "we might consider it if kittens are getting slaughtered"
 
@Verbeia agreed with, and responded to.
@yoda what do you have against kittens?
Seriously, what are the circumstances under which it occurs?
Are there other restriction methods?
 
tags without questions are auto pruned by the system after 24 hours. So if we remove it from existing questions, then it goes away automatically
 
Though an intrepid asker can reform it again afterwards. :)
 
2:02 AM
then it can be recreated only by someone with enough rep to do it. Now everyone can, since we're in private beta. In public beta it requires somehting like 150 rep and 300 in a graduated site
 
300 on Mathematics, so confirmed.
 
So even in cases where there are about 20-30 questions with that tag, they'll only recommend that you remove it manually (perhaps not all at once to avoid flooding the home page with edits) and let the background process do it
@rcollyer yeah, it's 300 on all SE sites, but 1500 on SO
SO, because of its volume and age, it's highly unlikely that you're going to think of a new, useful tag now
 
@yoda true, but occasionally they show up. I got boost-mpi.
 
@rcollyer for example, tagging something as "error" on stackoverflow is a nightmare. What does that even mean?
So that is an example of a tag that's burninated
 
@yoda I think that's exactly the type of ambiguity we're dealing with here and .
 
2:06 AM
and to some extent.
 
I agree with that one.
 
but burninated is different from blacklisting. burninated is mass removal by a dev. blacklisting is when users are prevented from using it
 
ok I have removed from all five questions but I don't know what else to tag this question with other than assignment.
 
@yoda So, I ask once more are there other restriction methods? And how do we get them invoked?
 
if you thought kittens had it bad for burnination, blacklisting would require kittens, ponies, unicorns and baby dolphins to be slaughtered before they do anything
@rcollyer there is none.
 
2:08 AM
that's answers that.
 
blacklisting is reserved primarily for redundant tags. For example, is, in all probability, a blacklisted tag on this site
 
@Verbeia it was originally, just , but [system-core] works for me.
@yoda gotta try it. brb.
 
@Verbeia Is there an accepted umbrella term for the *Values[]?
 
so while there are ways for devs to restrict usage, you can pretty much forget getting a request approved
 
@yoda is definitely blacklisted.
 
2:10 AM
in short: "prove to us that the tag is being misused".
"Potential for misuse" and "makes no sense" are bad reasons
 
at this point, there is no proof, and can't possibly be any.
 
@JM assignment and definitions seem to be synonymous in the Wolfram docs
 
@Verbeia Oh, that I know. It's the *Values[] I ain't sure of...
 
gotta go for a while - see you!
 
See you!
 
2:12 AM
moderators on Super User, which is the second biggest site in the network have to plead and pester for days on to get a tag blacklisted – and that after a lot of abuse. For new sites like ours, they ain't gonna bat an eyelid before refusing
 
@JM As per the comments, I restricted the list to only things that were specifically related to function/variable definition. The rest are much more mathematical in nature.
@yoda I figured that. I was just curious what it took. Which I got about 5 posts ago ... :P
something about ponies ...
 
@rcollyer I saw that. What I was asking is if there's a good umbrella term for these entities. That can then be used for tagging.
 
@JM the mathematical ones, or the definitional ones?
or both?
 
OwnValues[], UpValues[], etc.
since Verbeia is unsatisfied with .
 
@JM then I thought was the agreed choice.
@JM I think she was wondering if it fell only under one tag.
 
2:16 AM
let's make every function its own tag! that'll teach those folks who come up with crazy new tags... if it's blue in the front-end, then it's a crappy tag
 
I see; that tag covers those in addition to Set[]/SetDelayed[]?
 
It should, yes.
In additon to TagSet[], TagSetDelayed[], UpSet[], and UpSetDelayed[].
 
(By Jove, I've never gotten this much rep in a private beta... I'm so very chuffed!)
 
and, you're good to go for getting your commit token back.
3 to go for me.
 
how about ?
 
2:20 AM
to bad meta doesn't count :(
@yoda for what?
 
*values
 
not that thrilled.
 
I was looking through the docs for a suitable umbrella and the tutorial on *values is called "Manipulating Value Lists"
 
interesting. a little more curious.
 
btw, why OwnValues (plural) and not OwnValue? I'm leaning towards pluralization for the sake of consistency, but just in case I'm missing something, is there a case where a symbol can have two OwnValues?
 
2:25 AM
I didn't name it. And, I don't think so. But, it returns a List, so plural is fitting.
 
(I wish we could get whoever's in charge of naming stuff on this site... I have a few choice questions myself.)
 
How is returning a List related to plural?
Dear Next Person Who Opens a Pluralization 'Bug', I will personally come to your house and bludgeon you to death with a giant S
already answered :)
 
@yoda it can contain more than one value.
 
No, I mean the guy who names functions in Mathematica. But, that's really nice! :D
 
@rcollyer but it doesn't :)
 
2:29 AM
@yoda but, it is possible it might. just like DownValues.
 
I need to do my groceries. Later, y'all.
 
@JM later.
 
alright, I better get back to work too. See you later
 
night.
Gotta watch Fringe.
 
2:48 AM
@JM I wasn't unsatisfied, but I wondered if there was something else I should also be tagging those posts with.
 
@Verbeia I think, if anything, it should be tagged system-core, also.
 
@rcollyer or core-language? that's what it's called in the Wolfram docs.
 
@Verbeia true, but Brett brought up the point of core-language seeming to deal with syntax, and I considered it a bit broader than that.
so, right now, we have 3 possibilities: , , or all with an equal number of votes. Seems like an intense debate to me. :)
 
3:08 AM
Re: the talk on the histogram binning question, it was asked on SO just a week ago... Heike's answer there was also to use InterpolationOrder -> 0
 
@yoda didn't notice. It dealt with a histogram after all. To much like real data. :P
 
3:28 AM
So, does anyone else feel weird looking at the top users lists? I'm used to SO where we finally have a couple of gold users, and now, it's like, "where did all the upvotes go?"
 
acl
@rcollyer it's not bad for 3 days
 
I didn't say it was. It just felt a bit bare.
That said, it has been 5 hours since our last question. Do you have something you've been meaning to ask?
 
acl
nope, I was thinking about that earlier today. but no
or, nothing that I can remember
 
too bad.
 
acl
would be nice to think about something not related to work for a while though, so I'm hoping for some new questions soon
I'm reduced to writing referee reports and replies to referee reports for the last few (and also the next few) days, in addition to being greatly confused over some calculation I am doing, so any distraction is welcome
 
3:40 AM
I understand. I'm still working on my dft chapter in my thesis. But, my time has been rather curtailed this past week. Hopefully, tomorrow, I can get a good six hours straight to work on it.
 
acl
at least you are not staring at some code you wrote and thinking "huh?", as I am (when not writing the replies that I mentioned)
 
@acl you just need a single stock template: "You suck, but I'll kinda sorta do a bit of what you suggested so that the editor doesn't think I'm a total jackass"
 
acl
fixing random broken code posted here is fun in comparison
 
@acl been there this week. but, it was an integral.
 
acl
@yoda I know someone who literally has templates for this
 
3:42 AM
heh, I actually do :P
 
acl
@rcollyer it's worse than unreadable code, I found my notes on this and I don't understand why the thing should work
oh well
 
oh my.
 
I meant more of a latex template than answer template, but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to change my responses
 
acl
@yoda well, this guy has answer templates. 3 or 4, depending on the ref report. he showed them to me and he seems to be serious about it. crazy
of course he publishes at roughly twice the rate I do
@rcollyer it's worse, I applied the trick in my notes to noninteracting fermions to see what it does; it gives the correct answer, but I still don't see why it works (and it's an order of magnitude faster than doing it by brute force). guess I'm doing too many things at the same time and so forget everything immediately.
 
sounds like fun to me.
 
3:49 AM
I knew this was a dupe when I saw it, but couldn't be bothered to look. I facepalmed when I saw that I had also answered in the original
 
acl
the SO mma tag looks deserted
 
especially after being here for a couple of days.
 
acl
the autonumbering question is interesting, it would be interesting to have something like that here
 
@rcollyer this is our normal lull - afternoon in Australia, too early for the Europeans, sleeptime for the Americans. I'm noticing a cycle in the visits/day stats on the Area 51 page. Today's is a higher trough than yesterdays, which is a good sign.
 
\[open-whine]But, I'm booooored.\[close-whine]
:)
 
3:57 AM
@rcollyer go ask some questions :)
 
@yoda I'm tired of asking them. I'd like to answer a "simple" one without Leonid around to pounce on it. :)
 
I've realized that Graphics[], Manipulate[] and Dynamic[] are the low hanging fruit, so it serves to familiarize yourself with it
I never paid much heed to those on SO because I don't really use them... but aiming for the low hanging fruit is one way to learn
 
that's true. so is some of the other core stuff.
 
acl
@rcollyer I thought you had a thesis to write?
"bored" :)
 
I do. and I should go do that. :)
 
4:05 AM
do you have a date set for graduation?
 
probably next fall. defend this summer.
 
nice
 
acl
I find that realizing you have n days to do something while it takes n^2 to do it does wonders for motivation (if not for peace of mind)
 
I just need to get some work done, and some days I don't have the time nor the motivation.
@acl ha! how true.
I'll carve out time tomorrow for it.
 
acl
and writing up a bunch of no longer interesting stuff is no longer exciting, yes :)
 
4:08 AM
especially when it is background material, ugh!
 
acl
pretend you're explaining it to someone in person, that helps. doesn't help with typing it up, making everything consistent etc, though
 
I'm stuck on an integral at the moment, and, at one point, I thought I understood it.
 
acl
you know the answer but can't obtain it?
 
@acl That's the WORST part
 
and why it works one way if the wave-fcn is made up of non-interacting (i.e. uncorrelated) particles, but doesn't work otherwise.
 
acl
4:13 AM
aha! I am now actively trying not to ask to see it (it's 5 in the morning here and I have been staring at such integrals from 9 yesterday morning until an hour ago)
 
I could show you ... :P
and, it should be simple.
 
acl
well, I am curious to see it before collapsing to bed
 
but, my head doesn't want to wrap around it.
okay.
give me a moment.
 
acl
sure.
 
$-\sum < \psi | \nabla^2 | \psi > = \sum |\nabla \psi|^2 $
the $\hbar$ and $1/2$ have been dropped for convenience.
 
acl
4:16 AM
sum over what?
 
particles
JM's mathjax link helps a lot.
 
acl
is there a square missing on the rhs? or is this correct?
 
it's missing. I forgot it.
 
acl
ok
and it's \nabla_i with i the cordinate of the ith particle?
 
yes.
It's straightforward to show that density, $\rho$, for uncorrelated one particle states, $\psi = \phi_1(\vec{r}_1) \dots \phi_N(\vec{r}_N)$, is simply $\rho(\vec{r}) = \sum^N_i |\phi_i(\vec{r})|^2$.
 
4:21 AM
waves hand... don't know if that's right or wrong
 
btw, the one-particle form is what I meant by $\psi$.
 
acl
you missed a square again?
 
damn. yep. fixed now.
 
acl
ok let me typeset the whole thing and look at it
 
I nominate rcollyer for pro-tem moderator on mma.se... if only to edit his chats after 2 mins to fix his squares
 
4:23 AM
:P
@yoda which part?
 
@rcollyer I added a square to the RHS, but wasn't sure where it went. I put it where it seemed to make sense
 
@yoda it's correct. it's supposed to be the square length of a complex function.
 
acl
so can't you do it by parts after inserting resolutions of the identity? it works for a single particle (I can't do direct products in my head and can't see my notebook anywhere to write it down)
or am i too tired?
 
no, you just need to get your head straight
 
for the single particle state case, yes that's exactly what you do. But, for the many-particle state case, it isn't apparent if that can be done at all.
Anyway, the paper I'm working with makes that simplification as a way of being able to solve the problem and sweeps the correlated part into an unknown functional that has to be approximated.
And, I'm just trying to understand if it can or cannot be done at all for the correlated case.
 
acl
4:35 AM
OK, I am probably being thick, but if I look at a single term and work in real space,
\begin{align*}
\left<\psi\right| \partial_{x_i}^2\left|\psi\right>&=
\int dx_1\ldots dx_N \psi^*(x_1\ldots x_N)
\partial_{x_i}^2 \psi^*(x_1\ldots x_N)\\
&=-\int dx_1\ldots dx_N
\left(\partial_{x_i}\psi^*(x_1\ldots x_N)\right)
\left(\partial_{x_i} \psi^*(x_1\ldots x_N)\right)
\end{align*}
(hm)
no?
guess you need to typeset this...
 
@acl got mathjax turned on.
 
acl
ah yes I probably should do that too
(and go to bed!)
 
@acl both of us should do that. soon, very soon.
 
acl
anyway, what am I missing?
I just did it by parts
 
@acl Apparently not anything. my brain just stopped functioning earlier today.
(other than the extraneous conjugation)
 
acl
4:38 AM
ah
cut and pasted :)
 
:P
 
acl
but does this work like this? it looks ok, but as I said it's rather late/early here
 
@acl it looks exactly right.
 
acl
cool. so tomorrow I'll send you mine :)
 
I think the reason the single-particle form is being used is it is simple. No extra integrals.
@acl sure. fire away.
 
acl
4:41 AM
nah it probably is something like that. i just apparently did something clever last time and can't work it out now. should be fine if I look at it fresh
if not, well, I trust myself :)
(apart from deciding to become a physicist, that may not have been so clever)
 
Somehow, despite missing the obvious, I'm glad this was posted here to confuse the people who show up tomorrow trying to find out what they missed!
@acl I second that motion.
Time for bed.
 
acl
yes, I'm sure they'll particulary enjoy the bra ket thing
yep
see you
 
night.
 
5:11 AM
@yoda The SO histogram question made me think that this would be good for the HistogramList documentation, for which I'd like to have elegant code.
@yoda It'd be nice if someone would read your and my answers to meta.mathematica.stackexchange.com/questions/76/… and do something about it...
 
 
2 hours later…
7:13 AM
I've got a little troubleshooting puzzle that I don't think is worth posting on the site: the graph created by LogLogPlot[Exp[-x],{x,10^-8,10^8}] is different from the one posted by LogLogPlot[Exp[-x]/.Y->1,{x,10^-8,10^8}]. Anyone know if this is a bug in Mathematica? (version 8.0.1.0)
Exp[-x]: blue part only; Exp[-x]/.Y->1: blue and red parts
 
7:31 AM
@DavidZaslavsky Wait, why are you doing /. Y -> 1?
 
@JM Yes, I've seen the other question, but that's a question Unique is the answer for.
Also, I can't find "unique" in Shifrin's link.
 
No, it's not there; he seems to be describing a hypothetical use. But Mike's answer to another question linked to in the OP would benefit from the use of Unique[].
 
I don't see it.
I mean sure there's a long answer linked there, but it deals with something different entirely.
I believe you when you say that Unique would be useful in there, but that doesn't mean much to me at this point.
 
That's okay; a more concrete demonstration would be a good thing to have.
 
7:47 AM
(The documentation could be a little longer on that function as well)
 
On the surface that question seems like a low hanging fruit that I'd love to pounce... but I guess you probably know what the doc says and its basic usage... it probably needs a Leonid style long answer to put that puppy to sleep
 
Well, can't really judge that until I read your answer.
You can secretly tell me here and I'll decide whether you're allowed to post it if you want that ;-)
 
:)
I really should stay away from the site and SE... not a good place to hang out when there's a big deadline looming
 
that describes me... perfectly
 
8:01 AM
:-)
How is it possible not to feel better after reading this article!
 
@JM precisely because it produces this really bizarre behavior ;-)
The real thing I'm plotting is an expression that does involve Y, but I was trying to produce a minimal working example
 
Did you try wrapping the stuff before the iterator in Evaluate[]?
 
@JM that should work, but I was puzzling over why it happens
Usually, with all *Plot, the culprit is HoldFirst
 
Stuff that have Hold* attributes work weirdly.
 
or is it HoldAll... one of it.
 
8:09 AM
That's really strange behavior.
So is it advisable to Evaluate[] anything you plot just to be safe?
 
It's HoldAll.
 
Although not exactly the same problem as @DavidZaslavsky's, problem here, Plot[{Sin[#], Cos[#]} &@x, {x, 0, Pi}] also illustrates one of Plot's quirks
 
@David It depends.
 
On a side note, is there a difference between that and using Evaluated->True?
@yoda That example makes sense if you ask me.
 
how does it make sense? I mean, now that it's been dissected, it makes sense to me, but I don't see it immediately as an intuitive behaviour
 
8:12 AM
@yoda What quirk is that? It looks normal to me...
 
Oh no, it's not intuitive at all, I remember stumbling upong it the first time
 
Plot[Composition[Through, {Cos, Sin}][x], {x, 0, Pi}] is equivalent. Plot[NestList[Cos, x, 3], {x, 0, Pi}] behaves similarly.
 
Ok, I'll admit that it's not nearly as wonky as throwing a rect in your exp
 
@DavidZaslavsky it treats the list as one function, note that both graphs are the same color
 
@DavidZaslavsky the second is not red
 
8:13 AM
Oh, gotcha
I've gotten so used to seeing that I didn't even notice
 
Old versions of Mathematica didn't allow such constructions. Evaluate[] (and Release[] before that) were necessary.
 
You couldn't plot function-generating functions?
 
@David No, if you're plotting something that isn't explicitly a list, it chokes.
 
This whole pattern-replace framework sure has its surprises
 
9
Q: Detection and styling of multiple functions in Mathematica's Plot

Mr.WizardThis question started me thinking about how Mathematica detects multiple functions being plotted. I find that I really do not understand the process. Consider: Plot[{1, Sequence[2, 3], 4}, {x, 0, 1}, PlotRange -> {0, 5}] I can understand that Plot finds three elements in the list initia...

 
8:17 AM
@David See this for the old behavior.
 
This might shed some light on my example
 
On that note, that's part of what made it a bit tough for me to switch from version five. Stuff that I was used to doing didn't work, and stuff I knew wasn't supposed to work suddenly did.
 
I don't know if I'm better off or worse for not having used any of the older versions
 
I haven't been around when 5 was out
I remember seeing the white window in 4.something and thinking "oh and this is great software!?"
 
@yoda Well, you won't be as confused as I sometimes am, for one. :)
 
8:20 AM
Took me a couple of years (and studies, hence reason to use Mathematica) to see the value behind that white box ;-)
 
@David I thought of it as "canvas". Canvas is boring. It's what you put in it that's art. ;)
 
Little I was, loving GUI and all that clicky stuff
 
So I take it that you didn't start out with using the computer with the command line? :)
 
I was a Windows kid, starting with 98.
I felt like a hacker since I used DOS a couple of times (dir *.exe level).
Now however, I'm enlinuxd.
To make things worse, I'll always be branded as someone whose first language was VB
 
ew. :P
 
8:25 AM
@yoda Don't be mean, dude. :)
 
I'm damaged goods ;-)
 
lol :)
I'm probably not all that different, with MATLAB being mine, instead of VB
 
I like matlab.
Have never used it though. Pure prejudice.
But it nicely balances out my hate for Maple.
 
well, I do too. I use it regularly. Just use it for different things...
 
Well, MATLAB isn't so bad... then again it was more or less one way I taught myself linear algebra.
 
8:27 AM
So what's your take on the "Matlab is better with matrices" things you keep hearing?
I mean list handling in Mathematica is pretty good, can it be much better?
 
@David I haven't done tests with the current version, but back in the day, MATLAB outdid Mathematica, even when the latter had already started implementing SparseArray[].
I'm told the margins nowadays are minute.
 
When it comes to me, Mathematica is still horribly ineffective when it's compared to C++, but that may be my own fault
Tried benchmarking with the Mandelbrot set a couple of days back, even with Compile and everything the difference was quite large
 
I tend to like Mathematica for prototyping. I want to do something, I write a Mathematica mockup. If it works nicely, then I figure out how to redo everything in language X.
 
I would tend to agree with MATLAB being better with matrices. Sure, list handling in mma is pretty good, but there are several convenient features in matlab that are missing in mma. Also, when working with matrices all the time, I'm more comfortable thinking of rows and columns than levels of lists
 
I always find it hard to think in basic programming languages again when you've got functions like NIntegrate at your hand in Mathematica that integrates arbitrarily messed up functions.
@yoda Matlab really works with rows/columns?
 
8:32 AM
On that note: one sees that in linear algebra, it's more natural to treat matrices by columns. Mathematica flips that convention. Makes for trouble when using functions like Eigensystem[]...
 
On a side note, it's quite surprising that everything keeps working despite me constantly forgetting whether the first or the second index is row/column of a matrix
 
@yoda e.g. it took Mathematica quite a while to come up with the equivalent of MATLAB's tril()/triu().
 
What's that?
 
upper/lower triangular
or the other way round
 
What Mathematica calls LowerTriangularize[] and UpperTriangularize[].
 
8:34 AM
Doesn't that simply overwrite with zeros?
 
Only certain regions, depending on the parameters. But by default, it sets everything above/below the diagonal to zero.
 
... and that's somehow a great feature?
 
For instance, it's convenient for unpacking the output of LUDecomposition[].
 
What would you use that for? (And especially: why doesn't a normal pattern replacement do?)
 
The traditional storage format stores the two triangular factors in one array for economy reasons. But sometimes, you need the triangles themselves for further manipulations.
 
8:39 AM
I just checked the help page for LUDecompisition. The output is pretty weird.
 
It's pretty simple: you have the two triangular factors merged, the permutation, and sometimes the condition number of the matrix.
 
"Merged"?
"The permutation"?
 
(In MATLAB, only the first two are returned by lu().)
 
That merging is pretty weird.
 
Also, a lot of operations on multi dimensional matrices (3D/4D) can be sped up by "vectorization" instead of needing to loop over dimensions... in other words, you flatten it out to a column vector and work on that and reshape it back the way it was/should be. ind2sub and sub2ind are very handy in that regard in converting from the vector's index to the corresponding index in the matrix
 
8:44 AM
Yeah, I remember that approach from a tensor library I wrote in C++
 
@David This explains the packaging. It's pretty standard. Even LAPACK does it that way.
 
Also, I'm not very fond of the ListCorrelate/ListConvolve functions in mma. I find them very unintuitive
 
Aren't they pretty much the mathematical definition?
 
No. It doesn't account for overhang
 
@yoda Heh, I have to read the manual every time I use them...
 
8:48 AM
If I correlate a list of length n and a list of length m, I better get an n+m -1 length list, dammit
 
Instead what does it give you?
What I often don't like is how optional parameters are specified in Mathematica: as some special argument in a nested place in some list
Function overloading, hellish version
 
"Wait, there's another argument?!"
 
@David n-m+1, I think
You'll have to specify a third option {-1, 1} to get the mathematically defined behaviour
 
On that note: I used ListConvolve[]/ListCorrelate[] back when there was no such thing as Differences[]...
 
The no overhang default is useful in imageprocessing, where you actually have to account for the overhang and ignore it to properly localize a template in an image
 
8:51 AM
Oh, as in it has weird behavior when the kernel leaves the list?
 
@David yes. In the default behaviour, the kernel has to always be "within" the list, if that makes sense to you
 
There was a bunch of Flash demos of how Mathematica functions symbolically processed their input; I'll see if I can find the link...
 
That sounds interesting
 
(Others here.)
2
 
Neat!
 
8:58 AM
Too bad they didn't do more for the newer functions...
 
Those are pretty cool. Never seen it
 
Thread is cute :-)
 
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