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mfvonh
mfvonh
7:00 PM
Sometimes I see litigation involving the church here and I will peek at the numbers
Some bishopric with $600m in assets
 
belisarius
belisarius
@mfvonh They are a real big Corp. $600m is nothing for them
 
mfvonh
mfvonh
Oh yeah there's good money in Christianity
nouveau feudalism
Do they have protestant mega churches down there?
@belisarius ^
 
belisarius
belisarius
@mfvonh Such large amounts of money that they needed to ban marriage. The legal hereditary disputes can't be settled at that sums
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
Based on some spelunking it would appear that Sunrise sends $GeoLocation and $TimeZone at least.
 
belisarius
belisarius
@mfvonh I don't know how the new christian sects that grow here like a cancer are called. Not sure.
 
mfvonh
mfvonh
7:05 PM
@belisarius Oh yeah the Catholics' stance on gay marriage and abortion is crazy, from a political perspective anyway. In the US they are prominent participants in the political debate as well, but they are losing a lot of political legitimacy for it. I don't agree with them, but either way it would be smarter for them to just shut up about it rather than hound on it and end up on the losing side, which is clearly what is happening.
 
belisarius
belisarius
The church has frequently been accused of illegal activities, including money laundering, charlatanism,[17][18] and witchcraft.[17]
Ha!
witchcraft! that's an accusation!
 
mfvonh
mfvonh
@belisarius Money laundering is a big one.
We have a phenomenon known as "mega churches" that are more like entertainment venues
 
belisarius
belisarius
@mfvonh Witchcraft is a lovable crime
 
mfvonh
mfvonh
like this
They are broadcast on TV and some have huge numbers of viewers
I've actually read old cases prosecuting people for witchraft
craft
Back in some of the more stellar days of our civilization
 
belisarius
belisarius
@mfvonh stupidity is boundary-less
 
mfvonh
mfvonh
7:13 PM
@belisarius sin duda
Let's see Stephen Wolfram model stupidity with his fancy cellular automata :P
 
belisarius
belisarius
Loudun possessions
The Loudun possessions was a notorious witchcraft trial in Loudun, France in 1634. A convent of Ursuline nuns said they had been visited and possessed by demons. Following an investigation by the Catholic Church, a local priest named Father Urbain Grandier was accused of summoning the evil spirits. He was eventually convicted of the crimes of sorcery and burned at the stake. The case is just one of many similar witchcraft trials that occurred in the 17th century throughout western Europe; for example the Aix-en-Provence possessions (France) in 1611 or the Pendle witches (England) in 1...
 
mfvonh
mfvonh
Witchcraft is a really convenient way to get rid of enemies
If you get to decide who is a witch
 
belisarius
belisarius
@mfvonh A very nice book about the trials, centered precisely on who decides which is a witch :)
The Devils of Loudun
The Devils of Loudun is a 1952 non-fiction novel by Aldous Huxley. It is a historical narrative of supposed demonic possession, religious fanaticism, sexual repression, and mass hysteria which occurred in 17th century France surrounding unexplained events that took place in the small town of Loudun; particularly on Roman Catholic priest Urbain Grandier and an entire convent of Ursuline nuns, who allegedly became possessed by demons after Grandier made a pact with Satan. The events led to several public exorcisms as well as executions by burning. The story was adapted into a stage play in...
 
mfvonh
mfvonh
I like Aldous Huxley
I have not read that one
 
belisarius
belisarius
@mfvonh Not his better, but nice enough to spend an afternoon.
 
mfvonh
mfvonh
7:22 PM
@belisarius I just realized we were in the topical room. I suppose we ought to move back here.
Poor @Szabolcs is trying to get something done in there :P
 
belisarius
belisarius
@mfvonh Witchcraft is on-topic everywhere
@Szabolcs sorry, we haven't realized we were here. Fell free to clean all the mess we wrote
 
mfvonh
mfvonh
Indeed, one must always be on guard for witchcraft
They need to hire a few extra people to write documentation
It is so minimal for most of these new functions
 
rm -rf
rm -rf
7:39 PM
@belisarius done.
 
belisarius
belisarius
@rm-rf Thanks!
 
belisarius
belisarius
8:15 PM
@rm-rf Your new froggy logo seems artistic
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
@belisarius Could you run the following and tell me what you get?
SunPosition[GeoPosition[{52.37`, 4.89`}],
DateObject[{2013, 3, 1, #, 0, 0}, TimeZone -> 1]] & /@ Range[0, 23]
 
acl
acl
@mfvonh wtf
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
@acl acl could you try too?
WRI's Jeff Bryant gets results that differ from mine. Very strange.
 
acl
acl
@SjoerdC.deVries it results in this 
{{Quantity[95.7, "AngularDegrees"],
  Quantity[-5.1, "AngularDegrees"]}, {Quantity[107.6,
   "AngularDegrees"],
  Quantity[3.9, "AngularDegrees"]}, {Quantity[120.0,
   "AngularDegrees"],
  Quantity[12.3, "AngularDegrees"]}, {Quantity[133.5,
   "AngularDegrees"],
  Quantity[19.6, "AngularDegrees"]}, {Quantity[148.3,
   "AngularDegrees"],
  Quantity[25.4, "AngularDegrees"]}, {Quantity[164.5,
   "AngularDegrees"],
  Quantity[29.1, "AngularDegrees"]}, {Quantity[181.6,
   "AngularDegrees"],
  Quantity[30.2, "AngularDegrees"]}, {Quantity[198.6,
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
@acl Looks similar to what I got. However, see this thread to see what Jeff got (and what it should be).
curiouser and curiouser
 
acl
acl
8:30 PM
strange
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
@acl In which continent are you currently?
 
acl
acl
@SjoerdC.deVries europe
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
@acl Time zone 1? That is, the same as me? Or correcting for DST TZ 2?
 
acl
acl
@SjoerdC.deVries same as you
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
@acl My hypothesis is that SunPosition incorrectly uses the user's TZ
@Searke Are you there?
 
acl
acl
8:48 PM
@SjoerdC.deVries did you try Block[{$TimeZone = 3}, ...]?
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
@acl I was about to
 
acl
acl
@SjoerdC.deVries well, it gives a different answer
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
@acl Yeah, but still sun in the middle of the night
 
acl
acl
@SjoerdC.deVries can't have everything :)
 
Simon Woods
Simon Woods
Hi all
 
acl
acl
8:57 PM
hi @Simon
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
@SimonWoods Hi Simon, could you test this for me?
SunPosition[GeoPosition[{52.37`, 4.89`}], DateObject[{2013, 3, 1, #, 0, 0}, TimeZone -> 1]] & /@ Range[0, 23]
 
Simon Woods
Simon Woods
@SjoerdC.deVries, I get this
{{Quantity[83.8, "AngularDegrees"],
Quantity[-14.3, "AngularDegrees"]}, {Quantity[95.7,
"AngularDegrees"],
Quantity[-5.1, "AngularDegrees"]}, {Quantity[107.6,
"AngularDegrees"],
Quantity[3.9, "AngularDegrees"]}, {Quantity[120.0,
"AngularDegrees"],
Quantity[12.3, "AngularDegrees"]}, {Quantity[133.5,
"AngularDegrees"],
Quantity[19.6, "AngularDegrees"]}, {Quantity[148.3,
"AngularDegrees"],
Quantity[25.4, "AngularDegrees"]}, {Quantity[164.5,
"AngularDegrees"],
Quantity[29.1, "AngularDegrees"]}, {Quantity[181.6,
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
@SimonWoods Thanks! That differs from my result. I take it you are in time zone 1?
 
Simon Woods
Simon Woods
@SjoerdC.deVries, yes, zone 1
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
@SimonWoods So, it seems the calculation takes the TZ of the caller into account, which IMO it shouldn't
 
Simon Woods
Simon Woods
9:02 PM
@SjoerdC.deVries, no it shouldn't
I have come to expect n.0.0 versions to be full of these little bugs
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
@SimonWoods It so happens that if you're in Champaign you get the correct result ;-) no kidding
 
Simon Woods
Simon Woods
In fact when 9.0.0 came out my contact at WRI recommended to wait for 9.0.1 until upgrading!
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
@SimonWoods Indeed, it is a bug fest
 
Simon Woods
Simon Woods
@SjoerdC.deVries, ha ha!
I notice my $UnitSystem defaults to Imperial despite the UK going metric nearly 50 years ago
 
acl
acl
Surprisingly, I find it more stable overall than 9.0.1
 
Simon Woods
Simon Woods
9:06 PM
@acl, I've not really had time to tell. Was on holiday when the update was released and only installed yesterday
 
acl
acl
@SimonWoods The previous version kept beeping at me whenever I cut/copied anything to the clipboard, emitting all kinds of messages about XMLsomething as it did so. Support eventually gave up (they told me they'd get back to me if they had any ideas, and I don't blame them). This has stopped.
And I have had no crashes yet, although sometimes the interface seems to freeze or slow down for a few seconds. This might be related to the undo functionality, as it seems to have mostly gone away after I decreased how many steps are remembered and in any case is most frequent if I am making plots of largish matrices.
 
belisarius
belisarius
@SjoerdC.deVries Sorry for the delay
{SunPosition[GeoPosition[{52.37, 4.89}],
DateObject[{2013, 3, 1, 0, 0, 0}, TimeZone -> 1]],
SunPosition[GeoPosition[{52.37, 4.89}],
DateObject[{2013, 3, 1, 1, 0, 0}, TimeZone -> 1]],
SunPosition[GeoPosition[{52.37, 4.89}],
DateObject[{2013, 3, 1, 2, 0, 0}, TimeZone -> 1]],
SunPosition[GeoPosition[{52.37, 4.89}],
DateObject[{2013, 3, 1, 3, 0, 0}, TimeZone -> 1]],
SunPosition[GeoPosition[{52.37, 4.89}],
DateObject[{2013, 3, 1, 4, 0, 0}, TimeZone -> 1]],
SunPosition[GeoPosition[{52.37, 4.89}],
DateObject[{2013, 3, 1, 5, 0, 0}, TimeZone -> 1]],
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
@belisarius Thanks, and your time zone is?
 
Simon Woods
Simon Woods
@acl, weird bug! Glad it's gone in v10. Where's the setting for the undo steps?
 
acl
acl
@SimonWoods I changed it via UndoOptions
I don't think all of these work though
see here
 
Simon Woods
Simon Woods
9:16 PM
@acl, thanks. So much new stuff to learn...
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
@belisarius Something wrong with your results. They are all the same, which shouldn't be the case. Sure you copied it correctly?
 
Simon Woods
Simon Woods
@acl, so now as well as undocumented functionality we also have documented unfunctionality :-o
 
belisarius
belisarius
@SjoerdC.deVries Lemme see
 
acl
acl
@SimonWoods very symmetric!
well, "highly", I suppose. can't be "slightly" symmetric really.
 
belisarius
belisarius
@SjoerdC.deVries Yup. That's the answer in my v9
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
9:21 PM
@belisarius It's too late. Should have guessed. You're not on v10?
 
belisarius
belisarius
@SjoerdC.deVries :)
@SjoerdC.deVries Nope.Still on Win XP. v10 doesn't work on XP
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
@belisarius You must be kidding. That's quite a security issue.
 
belisarius
belisarius
@SjoerdC.deVries Oh well. Life is an insecure place to be
 
Sjoerd C. de Vries
Sjoerd C. de Vries
@belisarius Let's not get philosophical, we're not trained for that
 
acl
acl
@belisarius What is the reason? Isn't that a decade old?
 
sblom
sblom
9:48 PM
@JacobAkkerboom Hello. I've been bad at actually hanging out here like I claimed I would.
But I'll be around for a while today.
 
Jacob Akkerboom
Jacob Akkerboom
10:11 PM
@sblom hey thanks for the reply :). It's a bit late here now though.
@sblom In my recollection I was the one who should have made contact. So it's all good I guess :)
I think I'll log off now though. Good day!
 
brama
brama
10:52 PM
did anyone try to create keyboard shortcuts for MMA 10? stackoverflow.com/a/4209612 solution for quit kernel is not working for me...Windows 8
 
Szabolcs
Szabolcs
11:22 PM
@halirutan Do you know if it is possible to use an already allocated block of memory to create a new MTensor? Or is the only way to make an MTensor to use MTensor_new and let Mma allocate the memory for it?
Thinking more about it that was a stupid question. I should just copy over the data.
anything that's returned to Mathematica can't use anything else but Mma's memory allocator
 
halirutan
halirutan
@Szabolcs I wouldn't know how to do it with the library functions described in the docs.
 
sblom
sblom
@JacobAkkerboom Sounds good--I'll catch you tomorrow.
 
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