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2:32 AM
@acl That's what FourierParameters is for, dude. ;)
It amuses me how a lot of people use Fourier functions in Mathematica and are completely shocked upon learning that the option FourierParameters exists...
 
CHM
0
Q: What is the most efficient way to save a big graphic?

CHMI want to generate a graphic using DiscretePlot[primePercent[x], {x, 10^10}, ImageSize -> Full, Filling -> None, Joined -> True] where primePercent[x_Integer] := 100 PrimePi[x]/x When I generate it for 10^6, my computer becomes slow as there are simply too many data points. What I'm ...

I think that will be an easy one, if anybody's interested.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:47 AM
@all, here's a weird idea, at least in origin, if not actuality. Jewish Life and Learning does a weekly question challenge wherein the users are challenged to come up with good questions on a given topic. This weeks topic: trees. Any one think we can "contribute" to this challenge?
(Obviously on here, not on their site.)
 
@rcollyer Interesting, but are we really fresh out of good questions, that we have to employ such a device?
 
@JM I still think we are doing ok on the # questions front. One thing I've noticed is that a lot of users are visiting the site frequently but not necessarily taking any actions. I wonder if they are put off by the speed of the high-rep answerers?
When we get a blog, I propose that we have an "Underappreciated Mathematica Function of the Week" post series. Including Inner, Outer and Pick.
2
 
4:02 AM
@Verbeia That might apply to me. I tend to back away after Szabolcs, Leonid, and Wizard have beaten the horse senseless...
"Underappreciated Mathematica Function of the Week" - there's bound to be a lot; the damn thing has more features than a Japanese toilet... ;)
5
 
@JM Having just come back from Korea, which has the same approach to bathroom equipment, I know exactly what you mean.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:05 AM
@Verbeia I briefly accessed chat on a tablet earlier today and I remembered you saying something about people currently in the room not being visible. It's not shown on the screen, but you can see the list from menu > people. The menu button is at the bottom left
 
@JM I don't think we're out of good questions, but the idea of having a question week on "trees" amused me.
@Verbeia I like that idea.
 
5:22 AM
My cache is full of Mathematica stuff (as in: Linux' graph shows a full RAM). Quitting the kernel will solve the problem, but can't I clear the cache from the notebook itself?
I tried ClearAll["Global`*"]; ClearSystemCache[]
But it doesn't change anything.
 
 
3 hours later…
8:14 AM
0
Q: Coping with "abstract duplicates"/"variant questions"

J. M.Taking a page from this meta.math.SE discussion, and in light of this question, I wonder if it would be worthwhile for us to maintain a community wiki post like this one in meta.math.SE that lists questions that a.) are likely to be asked, in ever so different variations, again and again; and b.)...

 
 
1 hour later…
9:17 AM
@JM I'm not sure I understand completely. Do you suggest asking generic versions of these questions and answering them so we have something to mark these FAQ as duplicates of? (You are right about that question, it is absolutely a FAQ, it comes up all the time)
@David Isn't it the In/Out symbols that are taking up memory? Try Unprotect[In, Out]; Clear[In, Out]; $HistoryLength=1;
@rcollyer How about: How can I efficiently find a small number of edges to remove from a directed graph to make it a DAG? DAGs are pretty close to trees.
 
9:57 AM
@rcollyer I don't know if there would be enough tree questions to fill a whole week, although I do have one or two myself.
For example how can I efficiently generate a spanning tree of a weighted graph (without having to load the Combinatorica` package)
 
Hi All
 
@Szabolcs "asking generic versions of these questions" - nothing of that sort; I'm saying we co-opt such questions as they are asked into the FAQ as needed.
 
@trayres Hi
 
@JM Can you see my meta reply please?
 
@Szabolcs If you'll look at math.SE, most of the questions were not asked as canonicals, but the answers given were so good, that they were selected as canonicals.
@Szabolcs I commented already.
 
10:02 AM
@JM There I didn't suggest asking them, but using existing ones.
Is there any chance these timings could have come from an n Log[n] complexity algorithm? --> {1024, 0.047}, {2048, 0.249}, {4096, 1.233}, {8192, 5.428}, {16384, 17.317}, {32768, 49.998}}
 
@Szabolcs It looks like it's growing slower than Log[n]
 
@Heike the first number of the pairs if n, the second one is the timing. But I heard these newer Intel processors are quite unpredictable about how fast they run, dynamically adjusting the clock rate depending on how many cores are in use ... I have no experience with them. My own machine is an old Pentium M (I ran these on an i5)
 
Mathematica probably uses a timer given to it by windows
So its maximum granularity is limited
 
@Szabolcs Forget what I said, I was thinking the wrong way.
 
It's still an interesting thought; Szabolcs, how were you going to go about showing that it was n log n?
 
10:16 AM
It is claimed to be n log n and these are the actual timings I get
 
Hmm... ListLogLogPlot[Transpose[{data[[All, 1]], data[[All, 2]]/data[[All, 1]]}]] (where data is Szabolcs's list.)
 
I love this place; I'll have to think about this, but its 2am here and I have to get up for work soon. I'll try to see if something strikes about the n log n data.
 
10:32 AM
I need some quick help: there was an example of using either of Subsets[] or Tuples[] for quickly producing the vertices of a cube, but I can't remember it. Might any of you remember?
 
@JM Tuples[{0, 1}, 3]
 
@Heike Thanks!
 
I wonder what Salesforce does. Out of the 45 people who have committed to the Salesforce proposal so far there are 4 beginner/learners. The rest is professional/expert.
 
10:47 AM
@JM You must mean LogLinearPlot, right?
 
@Szabolcs Your data's still curvy with ListLogLinearPlot[]. So it's a bit of a surprise to find some straightness with ListLogLogPlot[]...
 
data = {{256, 0.0110007}, {362, 0.0130007}, {512, 0.0170010}, {724,
  0.0330019}, {1024, 0.0770044}, {1448, 0.1530088}, {2048,
  0.3380193}, {2896, 0.8080462}, {4096, 1.8331049}, {5793,
  4.0612322}, {8192, 8.2364711}, {11585, 15.8769081}, {16384,
  29.6526960}, {23170, 51.7039573}, {32768, 83.5997816}, {46341,
  132.1385579}, {65536, 201.1495051}}
 
@Szabolcs time == 0.0000637328 n^1.35078 seems to fit the data reasonable well
But then so does 0.0000167031 n^1.25453 Log[n]
 
11:14 AM
This was a very good question:
13
Q: Why doesn't PatternTest work with Composition?

celtschkWhile playing around with the solutions to this question, I've found some very strange behaviour: MatchQ[3,_?Composition[Not,OptionQ]] (* ==> False *) MatchQ[3,_?(Not[OptionQ[#]]&)] (* ==> True *) Composition[Not,OptionQ][3] (* ==> True *) So what's wrong with the first pattern? O...

I hadn't noticed that before because my use of PatternTest is invariably either with a single named function: _?testQ or with a pure function and parentheses: _?(test@# &)
Are there any other operators that have greater binding power than function brackets? I know that func@list[[1]] binds to Part first but that's not quite the same.
 
Wasn't there a precedence list for Mathematica somewhere in the help file?
 
Thanks J.M. I guess it's been too long since I read that stuff.
Okay, so the answer seems to be "no" outside of 2D typesetting functions. Is that your read as well?
 
huh... I didn't know that [[ ]] worked even in subscripts... and it's not interpreted as Subscript[...], but Part[...] (although that makes sense)
 
11:29 AM
@MrWizard PatternTest[] and above, yes.
@yoda I use double brackets more often than an explicit Part[] to extract array entries.
 
@JM I never use Part either... (does anyone?)
 
Sometimes I get fancy and use \[LeftDoubleBracket] and \[RightDoubleBracket]. Even fancier, I make them subscripts and use \[InvisibleComma].
@yoda I think I've seen code use Part[] explicitly... :)
 
Oh I see what you mean. I always use \[LeftDoubleBracket] and right, not [[ (i.e., two single brackets)
 
But J.M., do you bother with subscripting it? yoda, I use Part sometimes. It can help reduce bracket clutter. It also helps with grouping where you would otherwise need (stuff)[[. . .]]
 
@MrWizard For showing stuff in a notebook, yes. For writing packages, no. Always stuff in InputForm[].
 
11:33 AM
@MrWizard hmm... I can see how an explicit Part might be helpful there
Infix has grown on me a bit more than the last time we talked about it =)
 
lol watch out :-)
 
I'm still of the opinion that ~f~ is best left for things interpretable as genuine binary operators like Join[] and Mod[], actually... :)
 
heh, a ~Rule~ b :D
 
Honestly I will be curious to know if you experience what I did, that it is easier to read code with well applied ~infix~ when you return to it.
oh please not ~Rule~ that's just wrong :-P
 
@yoda Nasty, man. :P
Although I must confess that I used to use ~StringJoin~ before I learned about <>...
 
11:36 AM
J.M. I think one of the major benefits of infix is that it visually shows that it is a binary operator, therefore you aren't left guessing how many arguments it takes. Anyway, let's not get onto that old topic again.
 
Oh, I'm not knocking it; it's just that I'm exceedingly picky with when I use prefix, infix, and postfix... ;)
...but that's personal style I'm not here to impose on you guys. ;)
 
Someone removed a vote from this after I edited it; can see anything wrong with it? :
1
A: Difference in Plot when using Evaluate vs when not using Evaluate

Mr.WizardPlot builds style lists based on the apparent structure of the first argument it is given, before evaluation. List is recognized and elements are styled individually, while generic functions like Table are style as a whole. You can see this behavior here, where Sequence acts as a "generic head"...

 
@MrWizard well, I haven't gotten to the point (or written enough loc/inputcells) where I've started stringing infixes, but I do use it often now for Partition with one argument, N with a specific precision, etc
 
This talk about infix reminded me of this:
(ColorNegate@
ImageAdjust@
SkeletonTransform@img)~MinFilter~2.~Colorize~(ColorFunction ->
"SunsetColors")
 
@MrWizard Nope; I was the first upvote...
 
11:39 AM
not a square bracket in sight
 
I think there's a point in which too many prefixes actually become confusing... the thing I like about brackets is that they scope visually.
...and if I genuinely have to nest functions on functions, there's Composition[]...
 
I wouldn't write what Heike posted because of the (). What do you find confusing about a string of @ @ @ ?
 
...for instance: Graphics[Composition[Point, Through, {Re, Im}] /@ Exp[2 I Pi Range[0, 4]/5]].
@MrWizard When quickly reading through code, it sometimes looks as if I'm applying to the functions themselves instead of that thing it's all being applied to down the road. With Composition[], at least I have visual indication that you have a sequence of transformations being applied.
...and I can treat the composition of functions as an atom in itself, so I can work at a higher level of abstraction.
 
I'm never sure in what order something like a@b/@c is going to be evaluated so I prefer brackets in those cases.
 
Interesting. Can you provide an example of that abstraction?
BTW, I think I would write that:
Graphics[Point[
  Through[{Re, Im}@#] &
    /@ Exp[2 I Pi Range[0, 4]/5]
]]
 
11:46 AM
@MrWizard That's what I would do as well
 
(or the Map on the second line; I've been playing with it the way shown recently)
 
@Heike Right, if an ordinary user has to comb through this just to read code, that's a bit of a problem...
 
It's funny you say that because I am normally quite comfortable with order of operations; the case of PatternTest was a rare surprise.
 
@MrWizard I would probably put the /@ on the second line and the Exp on the third
 
@MrWizard That's admittedly more compact for this case :) but with what I work with, I think it's a great aid to group a sequence of applications as a composition. The Composition[] object reads like Chinese though, so if you're not used to right-to-left languages, I can see why you're not too fond of it.
 
11:50 AM
My idea with starting a line with an operator ( /. /@ @@@ ) is that it may be more visually apparent what the relationship between lines is; this was inspired by WReach's code, where he starts the line with a comma.
 
hmm.. isn't Chinese top-down? (or left-right in simplified?)
 
so for instance: Composition[Point, Through, {Re, Im}]: "take real and imaginary parts, use Through[] for simultaneous application, and wrap with Point[]."
@yoda ...and you've just betrayed my traditional nature... :D
 
@MrWizard I prefer putting the operator on the previous line because sometimes the code breaks if the line before the operator is a complete expression
For example this doesn't work
({Re, Im}@#) &
/@ Exp[2 I Pi Range[0, 4]/5]
 
Yes I've run into that. My time here causes me to continue to experiment with different things however.
Normally I am not line-breaking code like that unless it's part of a surrounding function anyway.
I think for consistency's sake I'll go with the first line for in the long run, but I do think there is something to it visually.
 
({Re, Im}@#) & /@
Exp[2 I Pi Range[0, 4]/5]
is how I'd have depicted it, since Map[] is the outermost function in FullForm[].
 
11:55 AM
I am not understanding the logical connection in the statement J.M.
 
@JM That's what I would have written as well but for different reasons
 
@MrWizard What do you mean? As I said Map[] is the topmost function, since that interprets as Map[({Re, Im}@#) &, Exp[2 I Pi Range[0, 4]/5]].
 
Yes, buy why does that suggest you depict it as shown?
 
If I use infix form instead of explicit application, I go with one operand and one infix operator finishing the line...
 
@MrWizard Heh, think of /@ as an infix =)
 
11:59 AM
...and then the other operand on the next line.
@yoda Dude, stay out of my head. :P
 
lol
 
Somewhat similar to why I'll write a long sum as
a+b+c+d+
e+f+g
 
So you're seeing this like adding-machine tape. That's a new perspective. :-)
 
(FWIW, it's also how I split long expressions in $\LaTeX$. I finish a line with an operator, up until the last operand.)
The other benefit is that visually you see that ({Re, Im}@#) & /@ is incomplete; you're forced to ask "where's the rest?", and then the next line provides your answer.
 
@JM interesting... I've always been told that operators be placed at the beginning of the new line and not the end of the previous, because it's easy to miss (ok ok, if someone is that careless, they should not be reading it).
 
12:05 PM
The same can be said for reading: /@ Exp[. . .] and the line above provides the answer.
Do either of you use leading commas like WReach?
 
@MrWizard Yes, but I tend to review code from top to bottom, so that's why I like my way of doing things.
 
@JM In LaTeX I put the operator at the beginning of a new line
 
Thank you for explaining your reasoning; it's probably best.
 
that's how Journals want it anyway.
 
Again, I'm not trying to impose my coding style on you guys; I'm just offering how I see things. :)
 
12:08 PM
Heike I noticed acl's comment in the sidebar and checked the context. You can always copy system files to the $UserBaseDirectory and edit that copy; the change should still take precedence.
 
@MrWizard Could you give a minimal example to refresh my memory?
 
J.M. regarding what? (sorry)
 
The line I linked to. :) You know, commas.
 
Oh I forgot to look for the little arrow.
brb
 
@yoda Also, I think the problem with that is that things like $+3$ and $-5$ are perfectly valid expressions.
 
12:11 PM
Here is one:
6
A: Table function with Part[] call misbehaving, but only after initial startup of Mathematica

WReachOne way to deal with problems like this is to use DynamicModule inside the Manipulate: Manipulate[ DynamicModule[{e1, e2, standardBasis, y, p} , e1 := {1, 0} ; e2 := {0, 1} ; standardBasis := {e1, e2} ; y := 3 ; Dynamic[ p := {x, y} ; arrowsReference = Table[Arrow[{...

 
In contrast, you mentally pause on something like $4+$ or $10-$. Plus what? Minus what?
Ah, it's in the next line.
 
@MrWizard man, I hadn't noticed that all this while!
 
He does that in most of his multi-line code. As I said it's what caused me to start experimenting with where I line break stuff.
 
oh jeez. I see commas and semicolons everywhere in his answer now.
Funny how the brain works...
 
You do get a rather quick sense of how each line relates to the one above it.
 
12:14 PM
@MrWizard I know that, but it has happened to me before that I was accidentally editing the wrong file.
 
@MrWizard A bit jarring for me; I'm way too used to semicolons as ends instead of beginnings.
 
Is it possible to have a cell with an interactive shell?
 
yoda, meaning what exactly?
 
One cell acting like a command line?
 
right.
 
12:17 PM
Where does output go?
 
it's an interactive shell, so stdout and stderr both go to the same cell
 
how do you separate output from input?
 
Wizard, you've used a command line before, right?
 
Would CellPrint to a cell above the command line be suitable?
@JM Ah, then you recognize that the horse is not yet dead, merely stunned! ;-) (follow the arrow)
 
@MrWizard not exactly what I had in mind, but might be an option if nothing else is possible
 
12:22 PM
Only good(?) old DOS. I'm just wondering about an implementation within cells.
 
I know I can use shell commands with Import and get the output... but I was thinking of a permanent cell, say at the bottom (toggleable) that gives you shell access (no In & Out cells... just like a terminal)
 
@MrWizard I chose my words deliberately... ;)
So yeah, it'd be clumped, but there's always a visual clue distinguishing input lines from output lines...
 
I need some food. I'll be back later. Yoda, you should draw up your requirements and desires and post the question. We need more questions...
 
@MrWizard yeah, sure. Was checking if the answer was something trivial like "duh, use TerminalFunctionYouNeverKnewWhereToLookForInTheDocumentation[]"
 
12:28 PM
I smell an igNobel prize in the near future...
 
See, this is why I like chat; I can use it to make sure I'm not asking dumb crap... :) Quality control!
"where a realistic representation of hair and fur has proven a tough challenge." - yes, that's what made Monsters Inc. a rather impressive movie at the time...
 
And completely off topic, but for those who like piano.
In school we were taught to repeat the operator when we break the line, e.g.:
x^3 + 3 x^2 +
+ 3 x + 1 == 0
 
@JM Or final fantasy, Spirits within
 
@Heike Oh yes.
@yoda ...you got me curious. Apparently MultivariateHypergeometricDistribution[] is the longest function name in version eight...
 
@Szabolcs I used to do that until my PhD supervisor told me off.
 
12:36 PM
Hmm, it seems to be a European thing...
 
@Szabolcs What if the operator is subtract? ^_-
 
Yes, I also use a decimal comma :P
@MrWizard Same thing.
 
You really put in a double negative? Shocking.
 
And I hate ϵ (I only use ε)
 
Hmm, I only remembered what day it is today, so: something interesting.
@Szabolcs Oh, I definitely prefer \varepsilon; I think \epsilon is one of Knuth's little slip-ups.
 
12:40 PM
@Szabolcs so do I
 
That reminds me: how do you write σ? Do you start from the top and go counterclockwise or do you go clockwise?
 
@Szabolcs I go clockwise
 
Almost all scientists I know write it clockwise, but Greek people always seem to write it counterclockwise, just like the digit 6. @acl what do you think? :-)
 
Speaking of Google this is the first time I can recall a full animation for the splash graphic.
 
@Szabolcs clockwise too.
 
12:43 PM
I noticed that numbers are written differently in the Netherlands than in Britain as well
 
@MrWizard You mean the Google Doodle?
 
Is there a Google Doodle today? I see the normal Google logo.
Oh, google.co.uk does have one, but not google.com
 
In any event: definitely not the first animated Google Doodle.
 
=draw heart in mathematica works too
@MrWizard I've seen several animated google logos
 
Yes, of that is called the Doodle, and I guess I haven't been observant. With music and everything? I know they have had ones with falling snowflakes and the like, but I had not seen a full animation.
 
12:48 PM
@MrWizard The last one I remember before Valentine's was for Freddie Mercury.
 
Did you see the one on Stanislaw Lem's birthday? I think it was not shown in the US.
The Doodles are different for different language/country editions of Google (and Google.com seems to sometimes give me the US version and sometimes a version based on my IP/location)
 
The one I remember best is this one:
 
I don't recall either of those but I rarely visit the front page so I can easily miss them.
 
It might depend on the browser as well (if it can show animations)
 
12:51 PM
I'll check those in a few minutes; thanks. (away)
 
The Lem cartoon is neat! Apparently I didn't check their front page on that day...
But my favorite of all would be the Pac-Man doodle and the Les Paul doodle.
 
@JM I think it just wasn't shown on either google.com.ph or google.com
 
@Szabolcs I tend to use .com by default so I don't miss out on Doodles... :)
 
@JM Sometimes google.co.uk shows doodles that .com doesn't
 
Yeah, I only realized that recently...
 
1:02 PM
It's different for all countries. For example this was only shown in (greater) China:
 
1:25 PM
This guy must be thinking we're all crazy ...
 
@Szabolcs Why is that?
 
If you feel like doing some system spelunking, please see my function contextFreeDefinition. I am hoping someone would come up with some ideas on how to improve it.
@Heike four rushed replies, almost the same, all within 5 minutes.
 
@Szabolcs Oh, ok, I didn't check the time stamp
Maybe I should add a fifth
 
Go ahead :D
 
@Szabolcs Nah, the only sensible way I can think of is already mentioned in a comment
 
1:41 PM
@Szabolcs why is this code hard to read?
# &[Read[#, Number], Close@#]&[ StringToStream@s ]
 
Come on, you have two pure functions, nested within each other, both using slot notation.
I don't know where one pure function starts and where it ends
I don't know which slot belongs to which function
At least not without taking some time to think about this
Now imagine an intermediate user trying to decipher it
maybe I'm the dummy ... :P
Don't make it look like code golf please
 
Please, how would you write this? I use this form often myself and I don't find it surprising. I guess I see your point about the double function in this case.
 
@MrWizard Why don't you provide an easy to read and understand solution in addition to the clever and short one?
cToMma[s_String] := Module[{result, stream = StringToStream[s]},
  result = Read[s, Number];
  (* error checking here *)
  Close[stream];
  result
  ]
@MrWizard The problem with these is that it's a lot easier to write them than to read them. And to read them one needs to get used to some common constructs. You have your personal standards that you are now familiar with. So for you it's easy to read. But I don't think this pattern you used here is common in the community, so I'd argue most people would need a few seconds to decipher it. And beginners would need a lot of time to decipher it.
 
heh, I just updated my answer without reading that; looks like I got the idea. :-)
Szabolcs I am not arguing; it is honestly hard for me to see with someone else's eyes.
 
@MrWizard It is of course very worth posting. We communicate a lot here and exchange a lot of code which makes it possible to develop some common standards---i.e. some popular patterns will emerge which will still be opaque to newcomers but will probably be very quickly recognizable by more experienced people. I think what is easy to read and what isn't is often a "cultural thing", it's a question of what we're all used to
OK, now you got my +1
Coffee time (no water boiler in the office so I can't make my preferred tea...)
 
1:54 PM
@Szabolcs No kettle? How do you survive?
 
Thanks for the vote, and also for checking me on confusing code.
 
@Szabolcs You can't invest in an airpot or something?
 
I move around a lot, I typically don't stay here longer than a month. In more permanent places I make sure I have a kettle :-)
@JM "airpot" is a new word for me and it is neither on wikipedia nor in the dictionary. Is it a thermos or a kettle?
Next time I am going to say "Dewar flask" when I mean thermos ...
 
@Szabolcs Ah, maybe that's not the term over there. It's a self-heating thermos of sorts...
 
@JM It has built-in heating? How does it work?
 
2:04 PM
Let me try to find an example...
 
So it's not just a vacuum flask then
 
Is there a more clear yet fairly concise way do this?:# &[code for return, code for cleanup] I specifically want to avoid: x = code for return; cleanup; x
 
This one is one of the more elaborate models; I can't seem to find a picture of a basic airpot.
@Szabolcs Ah, that's it!
 
I got it now. It's the thermos with the pump button on top
 
2:08 PM
Yes, you plug it in, set the time to heat, and it keeps your water hot for the rest of the day.
 
@Szabolcs also, may I delete the out of date comments to my answer?
 
@MrWizard Using sow and Reap maybe?
 
@MrWizard It's nice, I just wasn't familiar with the idiom so my pattern matcher failed on it :-)
@MrWizard OK, let's delete
 
Heike, give me an example and tell me why you think it is more clear, please.
I've gotten so used to using #&[return, cleanup] that I cannot see it an unclear. I am trying to understand.
 
@JM How hot does the water get in one of those?
 
2:10 PM
@Heike To boiling. :)
(which is part of the reason why you don't fill it up entirely)
 
Szabolcs if someone as knowledgeable as you found it confusing then I'm sure others will too. I would like to find something both clear, and more concise than the Module approach.
 
@MrWizard Perhaps it'd be useful to include a link to that "cautionary tale". It's not at all obvious that it's so important to close streams. He was using StringToStream exactly for the same purpose, and that's how he ended up with a gazillion open streams.
 
@JM Might look into one of those then (you can't make proper tea if the water isn't warm enough)
 
Just to make sure: you're not supposed to put teabags or coffee in the airpot... :)
 
@MrWizard Reap[Sow[return]; cleanup;][[2,1,1]]
 
2:13 PM
Especially black tea---the water must be hot for that. I like this one, from Turkey (it's cheap and has a really nice flavour):
@MrWizard I think your idea is a nice way to do it :-) it just took me a while to "get"
 
@JM No I understand.
 
They used to sell it all over Europe.
 
@Szabolcs Certainly, it's Earl Gray... no wonder it's good. :)
 
@Szabolcs I think your comment serves well, and since it was your admonition and not mine it's appropriate.
 
@JM I drink Earl Grey a lot. My favourite brand is Twinings
 
2:15 PM
@Heike -- what do others think of this format? (follow the arrow)
 
@Heike I think Twinings is the gold standard in tea... :)
 
Are these all whole leaf teas?
 
@MrWizard I'm not saying my version is better, but I haven't been using pure functions very long so I'm not fully literate in them yet.
@MrWizard No, Twinings comes in bags
@JM It is one of the better tea brands, although I have found a tea shop in the Netherlands that sells even better (loose) tea
 
Heike I didn't mean to imply that your version wasn't clearer; I just don't feel competent to judge at this point. I personally thought that pure functions were at a more basic level than Sow/Reap and would be introduced earlier in one's exposure to Mathematica.
 
@MrWizard I haven't used either much before I joined SO, but I find Sow/Reap easier to understand in a way
 
acl
2:28 PM
@Szabolcs I write the o anticlockwise starting from the top, then when I reach the top again I draw the horizontal bar. not sure how general this is though
(I am the person who has been writing y mirror imaged my whole life, and only realized it last year when I was told)
 
@acl Wait, omicron or sigma?
 
@acl I tend to mix up 3 and ε
 
I like Twinings as well, but I like Tomurcuk a bit better :-) I get Twinings when I can't get Tomurcuk
 
acl
@JM I write omicron (or o, it's the same thing) anticlockwise and sigma as omicron+horizontal line tacked on top
this might very well be wrong, it's just how I do it.
 
You're Greek, so I'd think you know better than the rest of us...
 
acl
2:35 PM
@Heike I don't, but I have trouble with zeta (as in, I don't know how it is supposed to be written by hand; I just put something vaguely like the typeset version and hope that people pattern match it)
 
@Szabolcs I've never tried Tomurcuk before. I'll look out for it next time I visit the local Turkish supermarket.
 
acl
I am cypriot actually, but greek is my mother tongue yes. still, the last time I wrote anything longer than a few sentences in greek was more than a decade ago
 
@acl zeta an xi are my favourite greek letters to write
 
acl
@Heike yes I have trouble with xi too :) my xi is indistinguishable from my }
 
@Heike It took me a while before I figured how to write xi properly...
 
acl
2:37 PM
actually, I am not sure when was the last time I wrote more than a few paragraphs by hand in any language now that I think of it
 
@JM Teaching complex analysis helps to practice writing zetas and xis
as well as phi and psi
although some of my students kept referring to those last two as curly and forky.
2
 
acl
doing stat phys and field theory also forces you to use lots of xis and phis but it doesn't help me at all
@Heike I had a lecturer at university who called all greek letters nu
this was a course about critical phenomena, which involves lots of critical exponents: alpha, beta, gamma, up to omega...
 
@acl I know people who mix up eta an nu, but that is sort of understandable
 
acl
he also had unreadable handwriting on the blackboard.
the course was difficult to follow
 
@Heike My students took to calling psi "devil" after a long hard lesson on Schrödinger...
 
2:39 PM
@acl "We are the scientists who say nu!"
 
lol
I am always amused at the references that end up common.
 
0
Q: Link button in post editor escaped square brackets in code

SzabolcsThe link button in the post editor incorrectly escapes square brackets in inline code. To reproduce: Write the following MarkDown in the editor text text `function[]` text text Select `function[]`, press the link button (), and enter some link the result will be [`function\[\]`][1] which ren...

 
@MrWizard That particular film is filled with memorable quotes.
 
I call μ and ν mü and nü :-) (not mu and nu or mi and ni)
 
acl
@MrWizard yes sometimes background beats upbringing. I find that simply randomly inserting a 42 somewhere in my slides in any talk I give anywhere cracks the audience up, independently of country
 
2:43 PM
@Heike wait a minute, there are two versions. Did you mean $\phi$ or $\varphi$?
 
@JM probably \varphi although I tend to mix them up when writing by hand
 
acl
@Heike "'tis but a scratch"
 
@acl I think you'd be hard pressed to find a geek who doesn't know "42"...
 
acl
evidently
 
@Szabolcs They are pronounced mü and nü in Dutch, but a Greek friend of me told me that they were actually pronounced mi and ni.
 
2:45 PM
I pronounce both with a long "u".
 
@acl "Do you mean an African or European swallow?"
 
@Heike Only in Modern Greek. "υ" is the Greek letter whose pronunciation has changed most recently. Just 1000 years ago it was still different from i (I imagine it to be similar to the Norwegian y, somewhere halfway between i and ü, some time before that it was ü, and in Homeric times it is said to have been u)
 
@JM moo?
 
@Heike No, "myu" and "nyu".
 
@Szabolcs I always wonder how they know these things?
 
2:47 PM
Short "u" will make me sound like a cow...
 
Mooooo!
Hello @KannappanSampath
 
Hi, @Szabolcs
 
acl
@Heike an acquaintance is doing a phd in ancient greek music. they are basically trying to work out how everything was supposed to be played, how it sounded etc to start with. seems not much is known. same problem as for pronunciation
 
@Heike There are some ancient works on pronunciation. I read a lot about these when I was learning Modern Greek. There are also some comparisons between languages (a Greek textbook for Romans maybe? :-)
But there's always a lot of debate because Greeks like to use the modern pronunciation even for ancient texts while scholars from other countries like to use the Erasmian pronunciation (which is said to be different from the actual Ancient Greek pronunciation again), and they all have a very emotional attitude to it
also, Greek has a very long written history and its pronunciation has been changing continuously throughout all those centuries
 
I must say I always get confused on when to use a tonos...
 
acl
2:52 PM
@Szabolcs maybe long and tedious lessons of classical greek, with modern pronunciation and medieval accent system, has something to do with emotional attachment to what they know
 
it was different 2800 years ago from 2000 years ago, so Homeric Greek almost certainly sounded quite different from the Koine Greek of the time when the New Testament was written
 
acl
(unless I was the only one who found them long and tedious)
 
:D
@acl I also use the Modern pronunciation even when talking about ancient things
@Heike there's an ancient Greek play where the author said something like "sheep say βηηη βηηη. That's how they know that β was pronounced like b and not like v (as it is in Modern Greek) :D
3
 
Interesting...
 
@Szabolcs Unless ancient sheep had a speech impediment
 
2:59 PM
This guy can explain things quite well: foundalis.com/lan/grkalpha.htm
 
By the way, I didn't know that beta was pronounces v nowadays.
 
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