and the things I'm having issues with have a very poor signal to noise ratio when searching for info about it

heh I've been working a ton with Docker, which has a lot of documentation but it's all pretty low quality

I can't decide if that's worse or not

And they have had lots of major releases in the past few years so a lot of it is not really up to date anymore

That sounds like a perfect use case for SO Documentation.

Whatever that will end up to be :-D

Yeah, perhaps, though if I was a dev on Docker why would I update yet another source of documentation?

I was thinking today though that all documentation needs a up/downvote and comment system on it...

Well, you wouldn't. The community would. As far as I understood, SODoc is intended as an augmentation for first-party docs.

@JörgWMittag in the case of Docker I think it'd replace it entirely though hard to say. you need a critical mass of people doing documentation for it to work...

Of course, companies / organizations / communities could decide to give up on their own docs altogether and keep everything on SODoc. However, in that case, I guess they would be expected to actively curate that content, and not just dump a pile of horseshit over the wall and abandon it. The R community is a stellar role model for how the process can work on SO. They shut down all of their Q&A, but are committing significant resources to curating the R tag.

ok so changing the db schema doesn't seem to make things any easier

wtf

it's almost as though there is some non-obvious circular resolution something or other that is failing but not telling me

OTOH, there are companies literally HTTP Redirecting their support page to SO and trying to freeload on SO, which typically does not go over well on meta. And leads to an unsatisfying user experience because their questions tend to get closed faster than they can say "Wait, this isn't the official XYZ support?"

If they even realize that it isn't, which they often don't.

Yeah, Sony seems to do that

which, good news, I actually got support on something I was doing, but bad news was that they told me that the totally obviously expected use case was impossible

Well if the problem is where to dedicated existing resources, it's one thing, but I suspect most of those are "no one cares enough to do this so we'll dump it on SO"

I guess it's okay, if they a) clearly communicate it's a third-party resource, b) educate their customers on the rules and expectations of SO, and c) commit resources to curate the content. If those three are met, honestly, why wouldn't you do it? SO is a great platform, outside the big 30 or so tags.

@enderland Unfortunately. Those are the ones that end up frustrating for everybody. First, users get frustrated about their questions being shot down. Then, moderators get frustrated at the users who complain about their questions being shot down because they think they are in an official support forum. Which leads to moderators getting frustrated about the company. And those users who understand that they were getting duped, get frustrated about their vendor, those who don't, frustrated about SO

So, we end up with frustrated mods, frustrated users, il will towards SO, and the company who so brilliantly thought they could offload their support ends up with angry customers. It's a lose-lose-lose-lose proposition.

please work please work please work please work please work please work

didn't work

goddammit

aggghhhh just randomly caught a S.H.I.E.L.D. live Facebook Q&A video from set. Chloe literally left McCormick 5 minutes after I last spoke to her to travel to that very location! And there they all are, on my screen in realtime. lol. I had almost let go!

go back into fiction world please!

#conblues

@JörgWMittag the bright side is most of those crappy companies get more crappy? :)

Heh! There's a silver lining!

@iksemyonov

these authentication protocols and authentication techniques are just too confusing !

agggghh that damn dog

yap yap yap yap yap yap fucking yap SHUT UP

huh ?

what's confusing

that you suddenly started about a dog of some description

@BarryTheHatchet ^ this is right

not that sudden really

@BarryTheHatchet which country is it ?

@Mathematics Sweden

neighbours are back. finally.

@BarryTheHatchet Thank god. I don't think I could have put up with that dog yapping yapping any longer!

:D

ikr

@BarryTheHatchet nice, can we talk about protocols now :D

syn

ack

@Mathematics HTTP/1.1 403

It's amazing to me how few people have questions closed where I comment about chat actually end up coming to chat

on the plus side, that's the main reason we can get away with recommending chat to everyone

but considering how eager they usually are to copy-paste their question into another SE site someone mentions...not saying a word in a chatroom someone mentions is weird, I agree

there is a rep requirement

we only mention it to OPs with >20 rep

the only explanation I can come up with is that people perceive the site as a place to get an answer and the chatrooms as places to discuss stuff, and they see discussion as mutually exclusive with answering their supposedly answerable questions

cv-plz programmers.stackexchange.com/q/313588/52929

guess who already CV'd it

gnat, me, you?

oops, 4 now

that is the second time I told someone not to post that on Workplace, heh, right after I declined a migrate-to-P.SE-flag this morning...

heh apparently the question I answered on Workplace hit HNQ

I have some value objects that are persisted in a DB rather than the typical validation/interpretation of an existing value. So, in order to load the value object I am talking to a repository; is it conceptually flawed to be retrieving value objects from a repository? By definition, you are never interested in getting the value object, just a value object with a given value. In contrast, a repository is about accessing objects in-memory (and hiding persistence logic).

Should I be building a factory that is able to talk to my DB layer instead?

It's just that I've never had a factory that understands persistence before.

Actually, I really answered that question by asking it... it does have to be a factory.

finding concurrency/multithreading bugs for my team to deal with. #theyloveme

smarterweblife.com/1203

ultraedit.com/company/idm_full_story.html

I will never spend $200 on a program

@DeliriousSyntax corporate licenses for most programs cost absurd amounts

$200 is cheap...

What would you use them for? I never seen the need to spend money on programs. What exactly could you need to pay for and why would you need it when programming? (Remember I don't know any big programs only minor ones)

This weekend a friend did a Flask tutorial and, while I don't know Flask very well, I saw some things that could be changed with the API to make use of native Python (3) things. I saw him last night, and he asked to see what I did (I didn't get to show him earlier) and another friend asked to see it, and they said I should put it on github. I don't really think it's github worthy, but I made a gist. Wanna see? :D

Well here it is, before I forget: gist.github.com/aaronchall/bcf6fdea61cb561a5b4d

@AaronHall what exactly is this for?

The US Air Force is soliciting names from airmen for the B-21 bomber. The names "Planey McPlaneface" and "Bomby McBombface" have indeed been submitted. However, they are going to use a panel to choose from submitted names. Too bad. Planey McPlaneface is an awesome name.

@RobertHarvey Let's go shopping.

I want to join. First we will go look for me an H2 Hummer then we can go get lunch at The Sun Dial google.com/… Then we can go find me a fancy laptop

@DeliriousSyntax You figure it out?

Nope

did you contrast the API before and after?

Looks like it's supposed to fetch information from some route that's all I know

Never seen the @route before

Tommy McOwensface

@BarryTheHatchet Hatchet McAxface

McAfee?

And never used flask. and the only something ive ever used was string and main

Let's all Barry the Hatchet.

I am MacAfee incase you haven't guess LightnessBean

@AaronHall That's about it

@AaronHall I quite liked LightnessBean. I notice nobody else contributed to Jimmy's poll.

@BarryTheHatchet I want to now.

And the bold stuff was supposed to have __ on both sides of it

I did - remember, Bubbles?

@AaronHall I see only one fork

It needs to be Xy McXface, where X is...something TBD.

Beany McBeanface?

It was a semantic contribution

Barryy McBarryface?

Lighty McLightnessface?

@BarryTheHatchet I went to the ppoll but forgot my password to the sitre

Supergirly McSupergirlface?

heh

I think Cody McCodeface works quite nicely

Indeed it does.

Bubbles McBubblyface

How about TheOneAndOnly

SuccessfullyProgrammedLife

I'm-a post some code.

@route
def home(): # home mapped to /
    return 'hello'

# above now same as below

@app.route('/')
def home():
    return 'hello'

my route decorator is smoother than the usual flask app.route decorator

Yeah, what exactly is it for. Does it have any legitimate use?

well one thing I didn't like about the flask (below) API is that the function name, home is fairly meaningless = you could change the name to foo and it wouldn't affect the program

@route
def post(post_num: int): # will be /post/<int:post_num>
    num '<h1>Post ID is %s </h1>' % post_num

I'll be back gotta run

And the decorator uses the function name, the variable name, and the type, instead of redundantly giving the last two to the decorator

Saved by the Bell?

Anyway, I think it's a much tighter API.

hehe I love this

feck, Shog closed my short-comment loophole :(

?

I haven't messed with comments in ages.

Unless you count blocking URL shorteners on SO, in which case... Lousy loophole there.

HOW DOES HE KNOW!? HE WAS NOT PINGED? WHAT IS THIS?

I was already in the room?

Oh.

I see.

(shhhh, don't give away my secrets)

Dude, he's always lurking. He ain't Santy Claws.

Shogy McShogface.

alright so I got that thing from yesterday working, and I don't know what I did that makes it work because it's basically how i did it the first time, only now it works

strange

The British may finally win my respect for this boat thing.

I hate training modules that I need to listen to and can't powerread.

@ThomasOwens: videos for training technical things is a scourage upon mankind

@whatsisname It's not technical. It's a security briefing.

@ThomasOwens security is a technical thing

Not this. It's about creating new documents.

essentially the same thing

@Shog9 Someone has ;)

@Shog9 nah

for every half hour of video there is probably 20 seconds of actual information transfer

wow today's been so productive. I've ... written a grand total of one python script. meh

Meaning I'm going to get about 1 minute of actual information.

If it was one of those stupid Unicode tricks, entirely possible someone just fixed the sanitizer.

It's a 90 minute training.

ugh

@BarryTheHatchet with Python that's enough to be productive.

back

In this what is the purpose of "post_num: int" and "<>" do in python? I've never used them in python

wow, I actually wrote num instead of return... I guess you can tell I didn't test the code. :D

I think it got swapped, I remember correcting post_return -> post_num

so (post_num: int) is a type annotation. It doesn't do anything programmatically unless you write it yourself (which I did.)

It's new in Python 3

@Shog9 lol I love the boat name... I would vote for Boaty McBoatface :)

Yeah, but how did it get swapped? I coded it in a terminal emulator in Emacs on Ubuntu...

weird

Must be new never knew you declared a type in python (int, float, string, etc.)

Maybe I did something crazy with my touchpad.

I should have said "function annotation"

even more confuse so what is it's purpose

all it does is "annotate" the function, unless you do something with it (which my decorator did.)

how did it use it?

22 def route(fn):
23     fn_name = fn.__name__
24     if fn_name == 'home':
25         return app.route('/')(fn)
26     annotations = fn.__annotations__
27     if annotations:
28         if len(annotations) == 1:
29             key, value = list(annotations.items())[0]
30             if isinstance(value, type):
31                 value = value.__name__
32             else:
33                 raise RuntimeError('type annotation must be a type?')
34             return app.route('/{}/<{}:{}>'.format(fn_name, value, key))(fn)

'type annotation must be a type?'

int is a type (as is float, str etc.)

another question why would doing this be helpful?

It's less code on the screen when using the decorator.

Pros: it gives meaning to the function name, and DRY's up the code.

Cons: it requires the user to follow conventions that are not obvious.

That's DRY (Don't Repeat Yourself) as opposed to WET (Write Everything Twice).

The fn is supposed to be the path?

Yes, Python is very readable isn't it?

I thought it was the easiest I have ever seen, but now I'm starting to second guess myself

Well please don't think very highly of that route function, it was me trying to be clever, and I don't know enough Flask to say it's actually something worth using.

I don't even know what flask is :/

It's a web framework. Frameworks typically seem to work like magic, so don't learn frameworks, learn the language.

I bought the galaxy note 3 and this thingy ebay.com/itm/151824367112 so this might enhance my learning the item should help with coding on my phone then testing on pc quickly

I guess I figured if there already was some magic there, it would be worth it to make it even more magical.

Definitely seems like magic most code looks straightforward, but not this

If you want to learn Python by reading it, read the source for the collections module, I'll give you a link

@Shog9 That's my guess yeah

Although I wouldn't call it "stupid"

hg.python.org/cpython/file/tip/Lib/collections/__init__.py

@BTH: hey, don't be so sensitive.

@BarryTheHatchet yeah, with Unicode that's just redundant.

@Rachel hey, long-time no-see. How's it been?

...why would you delete that, @Aaron?

Don't want to go around name-dropping

Speaking of which, I have a friend who looks like Nicholas Cage, and he saw Alec Baldwin in Washington Square Park, and said hi to him, Alec said hi back like he knew him. Hah ha.

He talks like Cage too.

@AaronHall ??

not vastly amused by moderators calling my work "stupid" thanks

I am. Vastly amused. :D

on another topic, how can I get Bash to perform a sub-command and evaluate to the string returned by that command .... OR terminate the entire script if the sub-command fails?

$() doesn't appear to do that

nor do backticks :(

$ echo `datee` && echo hi
bash: datee: command not found

hi

Voting to close as off-topic.

Unix?

yeah assume POSIX

am I going to have to redirect output to a file

pipe to variable and then check for error?

$? gives you the output of the last command...

@AaronHall not if it's from a subshell though?

that's not a subshell

IDK, That's why I suggested you go to Unix SE... :P

no you didn't

oh, that's what "Unix?" meant

thanks Aaron

I'm your friend!

@BarryTheHatchet you figure it out?

I know you're probably going for a one-liner, but maybe you shouldn't? IDK. Not a bash-pro.

cmd | read 'VARNAME'; if [ $? -eq 0 ] ...... else ......... fi went with this in the end

oh, except it doesn't work

blah

tomlac@TOM-HP ~
$ date | read -r 'LOL'; if [ $? -eq 0 ]; then echo $LOL; else echo 'failll'; fi


tomlac@TOM-HP ~
$ datee | read -r 'LOL'; if [ $? -eq 0 ]; then echo $LOL; else echo 'failll'; fi
bash: datee: command not found
failll

y no output in the success case :(

failure case is doing what I want though

mebe $? is for the read

probably for the if?

$ datee
-bash: datee: command not found
$ echo $?
127

disclaimer: cygwin

it's definitely not for the if

otherwise if [ $? -eq 0 ]; would be impossible and also Bash would be time travelling

Your outdoors in the woods no convenient stores in sight or withing 40 miles. Your lips are severely chapped. WHat do you do?

yeah, didn't see it in the if...

Get the heck out of the sticks and move closer to civilization?

@BarryTheHatchet the problem is the read

$ date | read -r 'LOL'; if [ $? -eq 0 ]; then echo foo $LOL; else echo 'failll'; fi
foo

just found that too :(

@AaronHall you have another 5 days before you are near any civilization and your lips are super chapped

tomlac@TOM-HP ~
$ date | read -r; echo $REPLY

date on its own has output though so wtf

hunt an animal and use its fat as a balm?

(MinGW's output is funny, as an aside ... it says the timezone is "GMTST" lol)

@AaronHall That won't work as that's will take precious time on a trip that has limited time that you must complete

There's the old joke about using cow dookie as lip balm to keep you from licking your lips.

oh, feck me, piping creates a subshell

feck?

I used to be pretty l337 bash scriping years ago but have forgotten about 95% of it

I wrote a pretty complex system to manage and synchronize about a dozen PCs for a driving simulator all with bash

Your lips are still bleeding chapped

I guess I'd have to bleed to death from my lips since I don't have these important survival tips down.

tomlac@TOM-HP ~
$ STORE=.tmp; date > "$STORE"; if [ $? -eq 0 ]; then echo "`cat $STORE`"; else echo failllll; fi; rm $STORE
Wed Mar 23 18:18:30 GMTST 2016

tomlac@TOM-HP ~
$ ls -l
total 0

tomlac@TOM-HP ~
$ STORE=.tmp; datee > "$STORE"; if [ $? -eq 0 ]; then echo "`cat $STORE`"; else echo failllll; fi; rm $STORE
bash: datee: command not found
failllll

there we go

I think this was one of the impetuses for Python's creation...

Why don't you code it in Python?

I'm performing an incremental addition to an existing Bash script

rewriting the whole thing is not within the scope of the task

besides, tbh most of this script suits Bash pretty well. it's all file/directory manipulation and executing commands

mostly

ok

Dang well looks like the lips are going to have to suffer

python isn't just an 'enhanced shell scripting' language

there are a lot of complex tasks that would be far less annoying in bash than python

perl bridges the gap a bit better than python IMO

I really hate being the programming noob here

@Shog9 Hi Shog, I'm doing good. Still a lurker on P.SE, but not as active as I once was :)

I wanted to ask though, has the CM team seen the latest meta post about changing the site name?

@Rachel CyanogenMod?

@DeliriousSyntax Ooot?

cyanogenmod.org

CM

oh CM = Community Manager

I'm not sure if they've been renamed to something else, but that's how I know them as :)

Oh ok :)

Purpose: Write a program to draw a fractal using a string of characters to define the base pattern. :/

I want my position on the site name perfectly clear: if they decide to change the name, I'll allow it.

Otherwise, I forbid it.

Position: The Complete and Total Ruler?

I am not just a figurehead.

tries to look important

@AaronHall *Does a SUPERMAN stance

SUPERGIRL*

SUPERGIRL? Do you mean LightnessBean?

Bubbles!

superbean

LightnessBean when she wears glasses then SuperBean when she takes them off

Why does Cygwin's bash man-page have different or chars? ⎪⎪ ||

Because I have no idea what that is :D

And why is it using Lucida? changes to Consolas immediately

Probably becuase I dont know what that is either :)

There needs to be some sort of commit hook on Bash's docs to prevent that from happening...

Bash hmm I've heard that word before

Here, DS, use this tutorial: tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prog-Intro-HOWTO.html

Doing homework atm

Homework? Java? I thought you said you didn't have any programming classes at your school.

It's an online course

Had to talk to the councilor to get it

Well good for you.

pats DS on the back

You had better do well so that their efforts on your behalf are seen to be worthwhile.

"I very much admire your talent as a programmer. You really should have been in AP Computer Science this year and could easily have been successful in that course. "

-Teach

Make sure they say that stuff behind your back too.

@AaronHall I think you should give me a project to do that can be useful or fun to do

Here's a project: try to guarantee yourself that you get straight A's.

example would be a video downloader (I wrote half of it then everyone told me there was already ton of the,

Wow

I see you are in the US, so it shouldn't be hard at all for 99% of the colleges.

Write a project to quiz yourself on stuff that's on standardized tests, get a really good score, and have college paid for.

@AaronHall Partially paid for anyway.

I had a full academic scholarship to FSU and started as a freshman with 69 credit hours.

I maxed out at 20k for my state U. I've only not gotten an A once, and that was an A-.

which made it easy for me to add on another degree when I figured I didn't want to try to apply my completed requirements for a Political Science degree.

3.7 GPA :/

The scholarship is 2.5k/semester, and I have to pay about 5k/semester.

@DeliriousSyntax That's not bad at all.

NOt good enough for any scholarship

DS no worries if they're honors classes...

Yeah they're advanced classes that's the only reason my GPA is that high becuase it is a weighted GPA

@DeliriousSyntax At my U, I think you'd have the same scholarship as me.

> First year students with an ACT of 30 or greater and a high school GPA or 3.25 or higher are eligible for the Presidential Scholarship.

Oh, you'd be in the next slot:

Scholarship		Amount	Cumulative GPA
Transfer Presidential	$2,000	3.75 - 4.00
Transfer Chancellor	$1,500	3.50 - 3.74
Transfer Distinguished	$1,000	3.25 - 3.49

What I should have gone for is to get college completed when I was in high school. But I would have had to start as a Freshman for it to work out.

And I wasn't that ambitious.

Well that barely pays for books.

They have this thing called Dual Enrollment at my school to get high school credits at a college but don't have the money

Right now, I'm trying to pick up an internship so I can finish in 4 years. It will be 4.5 years if I have to wait until next summer.

Yeah, my high school didn't want to pay for my classes at UWF either. But I pushed hard for it, and they caved.

@Rachel Probably? I'll ask around.

It was in the manual, but they tried to pretend it didn't exist.

wtf Jenkins's PAM/sshd authentication has broken at some point in the last week or two

I can't log in

I broke it I hacked the site and scrambled the code

@DeliriousSyntax I don't think so.

Or did I miss the sarcasm font?

oh my

It's kind of hard to tell sometimes, I'm font-blind.

not sure how that could be viewed as anything but sarcasm tbqh

@Hosch250 Are you saying I'm incapable?

or silliness.

@Shog9 Thanks Shog, I really don't want to overdo it like last time... but I also want to be sure it's not ignored entirely since it's been a couple weeks and there are a lot of votes for our meta site on that one

DS doesn't know what Bash is yet...

It's in the terminal

used in the terminal...

I thinl