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user55340
12:45 AM
Updated question - Is there an ETA of less than 6 to 8 weeks for when the changes will go live? — GlenH7 May 29 at 19:15
 
user55340
@GlenH7 It's hard to know exactly when it'll go live as we work on several projects at once, but we'll do our best! — Stéphane Martin 17 hours ago
 
user55340
Not sure about others, but I'm fairly sure that my business users (clients / customers) would be most disappointed if I had 'here is a list of cool features that you're going to get in the next release' and then when asked about when that is they get the answer back "Q1 of fiscal 2016".
 
user114359
"tomorrow"
 
user55340
If you're not working with the person to give a reasonable expectation of when it will be deployed, don't set the expectation that it will be tomorrow.
 
user114359
I agree
 
user114359
12:50 AM
I hate giving timeframes and deadlines
 
Duga
Duga
1:04 AM
At this point it can't be migrated (older than 60 days), but I think this question may already exist on Programmers. — Kevin Brown 50 secs ago
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
The percentage of Duga-identified questions I close and/or delete is probably close to 90 percent.
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
At one company, my standard response to "when will that be done" was "not sure, it's not in the current sprint, so I don't know"
then if people fussed, I reminded them that a half dozen others wanted to shift my priorities, and that sprint planning was the place to jockey for that.
 
user55340
The thing to be wary of as a programmer is setting false expectations.
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
mostly because nobody wanted to come to the 2 hour sprint planning meeting.
 
user55340
Say for example...
 
user55340
1:12 AM
18
Q: A design update is coming!

Stéphane MartinMost of the changes won’t be visible; these tweaks go along with recent updates that were made to Stack Overflow: We are moving the site's CSS to a newly refactored LESS system, so that it's easier for us to fix SE network CSS bugs globally and launch new features in the future. We are updating...

discussion featured design
 
user114359
@MichaelT Demand your money back
 
user55340
2:53 AM
@RobertHarvey as a very late to that message comment, I'll point out "deliberate intimidation" and "harassing photography" would have covered her actions too.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Damn straight.
 
user55340
@durron597 you would likely get Angostura bitters if you didn't specify. Only a large one would have selection beyond that (intended as bitters). Yes, there are other brands, and technically Jaegermeister is a bitter (I tend to classify it in the anise family of liqueurs along with Galliano and sambuca). Though if you're going for the complex herbal flavor family, you might also look to Chartreuse.
 
user55340
Chartreuse (liqueur)
Chartreuse (pronounced: [ʃaʁtʁøz]) is a French liqueur made by the Carthusian Monks since 1737 according to the instructions set out in the secret manuscript given to them by François Annibal d'Estrées in 1605. It is composed of distilled alcohol aged with 130 herbs, plants and flowers. The liqueur is named after the Monks' Grande Chartreuse monastery, located in the Chartreuse Mountains in the general region of Grenoble in France. The liqueur is produced in their distillery in the nearby town of Voiron (Isère). Until the 1980s, there was another distillery at Tarragona in Spain. Chartreuse gives...
 
user55340
Touching briefly on Galliano, its something that I'd look at just a hint of to add some complexity to chocolate liqueurs, though you have to watch out to avoid having it taste like a cough medicine.
 
user55340
Galliano (liqueur)
Liquore Galliano L'Autentico, known more commonly as Galliano, is a sweet herbal liqueur, created in 1896 by Italian distiller and brandy producer Arturo Vaccari of Livorno, Tuscany and named after Giuseppe Galliano, an Italian hero of the First Italo–Ethiopian War. == IngredientsEdit == Galliano has numerous natural ingredients including star anise, Mediterranean anise, Juniper berry, musk yarrow, lavender, peppermint, cinnamon, and Galliano's hallmark vanilla flavour. Galliano uses vanillin for flavouring and sugar and glucose syrup for sweetening. Caramel and tartrazine are used to ach...
 
user55340
3:05 AM
As an aside, this is the best cocktail book I've found:
 
user55340
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@Snowman seconded. People always want something ASAP- which means they don't want to spend the time to tell you about what they want, too often they just want to bully you into committing to a date so that they can wash their hands of it. I'm totally comfortable giving dates when the person asking is willing to sit with me and make clear the desires/goal/requirements et al and have a negotiation about what I will actually do.
@MichaelT I still need to grab a bottle of this just to see what the heck.
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa Once you have a shot of it, you may find webtender.com/db/ingred/68 useful
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@Telastyn my typical response if it's not what I'm working on right now is: You'll have to speak with my boss about what my current priorities are to see when he can get it in.
@MichaelT have you had before what I mentioned earlier about ginger beer + lime + bitters? I suspect it may not be uncommon as I know lemon lime and bitters is a thing, which is what gave me the idea to begin with
 
user55340
its kind of useful in the floating drinks world because it is such a low specific gravity (floats on everything)
 
user55340
3:10 AM
lemon lime + bitters could be quite interesting. I'm not a big fan of beer (there are so many other things to drink), but I could see that combination working.
 
user55340
The thing to watch out for is that the bitters would be a complimentary flavor to the beer so you wouldn't have it standing out with the exception of a few herbal notes that might be... odd in beer.
 
user55340
Whereas bitters + lemon lime has distinct flavors that don't cover each other up.
 
user55340
Can't find it at the moment... but on the floating drinks recipes there was one that the bartender did once... beautifully simple. Peach schnapps, layer of cranberry juice, layer of vodka (though I might have that upside down).
 
user55340
The thing is the cranberry juice was floating between two colorless and clear liqueurs.
 
user55340
Looked it up... peach schnapps on top, vodka on bottom.
 
user55340
3:14 AM
Though its a tricky one because they are all still fairly close to each other.
 
user55340
The trick is to chill the vodka.
 
user55340
 
user15026
I wonder how that would taste.
 
user55340
@AshleyNunn complex. Lots of herbal in there. Its more for show than for flavor.
 
user15026
@MichaelT That's what I thought
 
durron597
durron597
3:21 AM
looks like someone found the creativity eh
 
rwong
rwong
"Michael Barr, a well-respected embedded software specialist, spent more than 20 months reviewing Toyota’s source code at one of five cubicles in a hotel-sized room, supervised by security guards, who ensured that entrants brought no paper in or out, and wore no belts or watches. Barr testified about the specifics of Toyota’s source code, based on his 800-page report."
We might not like his famous Embedded C Quiz, but we have to give due respect to him investing a lot of time into this case.
 
durron597
durron597
3:37 AM
@MichaelT @Ixrec I totally agree that the amatuer programming question should get migrated to World Building.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
4:33 AM
@MichaelT ginger beer isn't beer - or rather I don't refer to "beer" there
that or bundabergs are hands down the best ginger beers there are. Period.
With my love of all things ginger I've tried basically all of them. Barring the above, Fentimans would be the next step down
Fentimans is still quite good, though I tend towards their rose lemonade instead of their ginger beer
 
user15026
Ginger beer is so yummy
 
user15026
Although I don't like ones that are like the drink equivalent of chewing on raw ginger, where it is all overwhelming heat/spice/whatever you want to call it without flavour
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@AshleyNunn yeah, I don't prefer those either, but the one I mentioned above has definitely got a good bit of the spice - but it's got lots of flavor. There's ones like this which are as you mention and frankly crappy:
^-- don't drink that. Yuck.
just tastes like ginger spice but lacks the pleasant extra part beyond the spice.
there's a few like that trying to be super gingery by focusing on only the spice, reeds does the best job of being spicy and having a ton of flavor still
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Is ginger beer alcoholic?
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
4:58 AM
Alright, then. Should I learn Javascript, or go straight to TypeScript (EcmaScript 6 and optional types, but available today) and Angular 2.0?
 
MRS1367
MRS1367
I finally, could solve my problem with nested sub-domains :)
Now I've something like this:
efg.abcd.example.com
And I've created two folders as follows:
abcd -> efg
I can access to the abcd sub-domain
But I can't access to the efg.abcd sub-domain.
I've created a simple index.html file to test it in efg folder
But it doesn't work and every time shows me:
There is no subdomain here.
Why I face with that page and it doesn't show my sample index.html file?
 
overexchange
overexchange
5:18 AM
M2E plugin(maven) says continually updating index, what does it index for?
 
 
2 hours later…
Duga
Duga
7:25 AM
You'll probably not get many answers to this question on this site, which is geared towards more specific questions. Try someplace else (maybe programmers stack exchange). — Ami Tavory 45 secs ago
 
 
3 hours later…
MetaFight
MetaFight
10:05 AM
@Telastyn how did your marker interface tree interrogation go?
 
 
1 hour later…
Telastyn
Telastyn
11:21 AM
They are indeed a tree of marker interfaces.
There's a chain of "if foo is X" to translate them into HttpResponse. The engineer is trying the "but the existing team had something like that" excuse. They're not using HttpResponse directly because it's from the lower levels, who should not know about Http, and they're ignoring YAGNI and saying that it might be hosted elsewhere eventually.
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
12:04 PM
my condolences.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Why are people using custom close reasons for unclear questions? In the last 30 days, it looks like 29 questions have been closed for a custom reason that maps to unclear. It's OK to vote to close and then leave a comment - that's probably preferred.
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
Sorry about that, my last close vote was a mistake.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
There's no need to apologize. I'm just trying to figure out why 29 votes were cast for a custom reason when we have a default reason for that purpose.
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
to be fair, it's unclear that "unclear" should be the default reason.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Can you elaborate on that?
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
12:09 PM
one sec.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
No worries.
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
I just reread the "unclear" blurb. It doesn't apply to questions that are clearly offtopic or salvageable.
for example, no amount of clarification will make the following question better:
-1
Q: Need charts to describe a student's rank and mark in a single test

L SubashI need charts which could be used for my web application. Charts should describe the students rank against the college and another charts should describe his mark. I searched for charts in google, but couldn't found any charts for this kind of scenarios. Do any one know what type of charts does t...

web-applications chart
 
user55340
@overexchange the maven dependency tree.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
I don't know if being salvageable is a requirement for being closed as unclear.
If I don't know what the hell you're talking about, that's unclear. Although sometimes, off-topic and another reason could equally apply, if that other issue was fixed, migration could be a possibility, so I prefer the other (not off-topic) reason.
So assuming I had an off-topic / unclear or off-topic / too broad or off-topic / primarily opinion based question and I made it clear, more focused, or removed the opinion-centric pieces, it would still be off-topic, but I could then migrate it to another site.
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
I understand where you're coming from... but isn't that a bit backwards?
is it really our responsibility to fix up questions for migration?
It's kind, yes. But it could also be a very big energy drain.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
12:16 PM
@MetaFight Not necessarily.
I'm not asking you to. By closing, we're asking the author to do something.
In a lot of cases, we can clean up spelling and grammar or take a discussion in comments and fix the question, but there's a limit to what we can do without a full understanding of the problem. Some things have to be done by the asker.
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
yeah. I see that. Maybe the "unclear" blurb needs to mention that it can also be used to fix up questions that could be suitable for migration.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@MetaFight Hm. I don't see that being excluded in the close reason.
> Please clarify your specific problem or add additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it’s hard to tell exactly what you're asking. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question.
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
you're right. Technically that's not excluded.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
It's pretty generic, IMO. "You need to do a better job of explaining what you need." In some cases, I read the question and I'm not sure where the question should be. Sometimes, I think SO, Programmers, CS, Code Review, InfoSec, DBA are all options.
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
I guess I just don't really consider question migrations to sites other than SO when casting a close vote.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
12:21 PM
Honestly, off-topic should be the last resort to close a question. We're saying that it doesn't belong here and we can't put it anywhere else.
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
again, I didn't see it that way.
for me "offtopic" is "doesn't belong on P.SE"
and, on a related note, what should be done about answers like:
-1
A: Need charts to describe a student's rank and mark in a single test

Martin SommervoldYou could try highcharts.com, they have many different types of charts that are highly configurable, perhaps one suits your need. Free to use for schools.

it might be helpful, but it's an answer to a bad question.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
I usually just let them be downvoted.
The question is closed, so it'll fall off the homepage eventually and be cleaned up the roomba.
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
k
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Although that post autogenerated a mod flag, so I deleted it.
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
and I got my precious 1 rep back :D
 
enderland
enderland
1:03 PM
lots of questions are just bad and don't belong anywhere
 
user55340
1:14 PM
@ThomasOwens the too broad on the circular ref question - it's asking about all types. Read argonaut's answer. He covers many types. But also an answer about circular dependencies with maven would be a valid answer by itself.
 
user55340
Or another answer about how circular linked lists aren't bad.
 
user55340
Wait, that was for @Yannis instead.
 
user55340
The one for @ThomasOwens was the "how do I fill out those web surveys" is not programmer specific. Tom and Karl's answers would be equally appropriate on any other professional stack exchange. How does the company lawyer or account fill it out.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@MichaelT Link?
 
user55340
9
Q: What “Industry Classification” is Computer Programming?

SynetechWhenever I fill out a survey (especially, but not limited to trade-papers/mags/sites), there’s one question (or any derivation thereof) that always trips me up: Which industry classification best describes your line of work This is usually followed by a list of things like Retail, Health, E...

definition
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
1:26 PM
@MichaelT I consider that on-topic. Why would a mechanical engineer, a doctor, a financial planner, or an accountant know what classification a software developer is?
 
user55340
Because that isn't how you answer that survey.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
And knowing that requires you to know the answer.
You can't judge a question based on its answers and say "this is off-topic because the answer applies to everyone".
How about most of the questions about estimation and project management? Should those all be off-topic since estimating knowledge work has the same principles?
 
user55340
I am in public service - not professional services. Doing the same thing before, I was in business services. Prior to that retail.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
And that's why TomG or Karl's answer should be accepted.
 
user55340
It is what does the company that I work for do. Not what I do.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
1:28 PM
But if you didn't know that, where would you go to ask?
 
user55340
And thus the same question asked on another site switching out "programming" for "chef" or "lawyer" would be on topic there by that reasoning.
 
user55340
Trying to find that bit about "uniquely applicable to software development"
 
user55340
As the same question about other careers would get the same correct answer, it should have been on the workplace instead.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@MichaelT It's not uniquely applicable to software development if you know the answer.
If you don't know the answer, then it very well could be. I don't believe in migrating questions based solely on the answers, but where they should be asked to be useful.
 
user55340
It's way too old to migrate.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
1:33 PM
That question? Yes. But any question. If it was asked in good faith on a site and it's reasonable to expect the answer on a site, I don't see a reason to migrate it just because the answers are applicable to more than the scope of the site.
 
user55340
And unfortunately the wrong accepted answer only has one down vote.
 
user41796
1:56 PM
@ThomasOwens gnat has his templated comment that he uses for that. IIRC, he uses the custom comment as it shows up immediately as a comment warning / asking the OP to fix their question. In general, that's a reason to use the custom close reason - it's provides immediate feedback to the OP via comment.
 
user55340
@ThomasOwens next challenge for that question is find a better tag than definition which is its only tag currently.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@GlenH7 The templated comment doesn't actually provide that much specific guidance. If there's a question that's unclear and I think it's saveable by the author, I ask specific questions that they need to put into the question for me to be able to formulate an answer.
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens I don't disagree. Merely pointing out why some use the custom off-topic message instead of a simple VTC as unclear.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@GlenH7 Now that we have metrics, it would be useful to actually use the right reason, IMO.
 
user41796
True. However, that doesn't address the delay between VTC'ing as unclear and the OP seeing the community feedback.
 
user41796
2:05 PM
Using the custom off-topic reason provides immediate feedback to the OP from the first community member who votes that way.
 
user41796
The regular "unclear" VTC means the community has to close the question before the OP can see and react
 
user41796
And there's a number of cases where the OP will self-delete after the custom off-topic message and several down votes are cast on the post.
 
user41796
That's a net win to the community where close votes become a scarce resource.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@GlenH7 Cast vote -> Leave comment. The feedback delay is what? Seconds?
 
user41796
Cast vote and comment left automatically for you...
 
user55340
2:12 PM
there is a word variation in the custom unclear.
 
user55340
Also there is a direct link to meta in it.
 
user55340
The nature that it appears to be an unclear close vote is awkward, but it is distinct.
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens - I'm not intending to argue; I certainly see your perspective. But I also am trying to point out the other perspective for why people may use the custom reason instead.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@GlenH7 I can see that, but it is going to throw off metrics.
If the unclear reason needs work, maybe that should be posted on Meta.SE, since it's uniform on every site.
I'd admit that it's not perfect, but I'd rather see unclear + specific comment rather than off-topic / custom + vague comment.
 
user55340
It would be useful if we could modify a template that keeps it as unclear but tailored to the specific se.
 
user55340
2:16 PM
I would contend that custom + vague comment is more clear than the unclear wording currently.
 
user41796
In the "war on crap questions", I think it's safe to assume that in the balance of effort expended versus thrown metrics, the winner is going to be effort expended.
It's a valid concern regarding quality of metrics, but I think the priority of the metric quality is going to be seen as secondary to fighting the hordes of crap questions.
 
user41796
And yes, that commentary should be read with a degree of sarcasm or snark.
 
overexchange
overexchange
2:30 PM
@MichaelT I want to learn ajax so that I can do front end programming in html/css/javascript(not jsp) and learn back end using java web framework called Spring that gives JSON responses. Is this understanding correct on technologies that work with each other?
 
André
André
@overexchange, that sounds okay
 
overexchange
overexchange
As am new to these terms(ajax/JSON), I feel bit bold to use these terms before learning, so thought to confirm with you.
ok
 
André
André
you can, for learning, use jQuery do create ajax requests, consuming JSON from your backend, there isn't much to learn, it's pretty straight forward, ajax I mean
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
as long as there's a library there to help
 
overexchange
overexchange
So, javascrip/html/css will be part of presentation logic(frontend) and the http requests will be passed to backend using ajax/jquery and in the back end, tomcat server running spring framework project responds back to browser using JSON. Is this meaning ful statement?
 
user55340
2:39 PM
It is a reasonably common stack.
 
overexchange
overexchange
you mean the market uses such stack of technologies for dev?
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
The notion that 0.x.x is a "pre-release" is a stupid notion.
 
André
André
@overexchange yes, small projects, it is reasonable to assume there is a small % using such stack
 
overexchange
overexchange
ok
 
user55340
It's the 0th iteration of the release cycle.
 
user55340
2:47 PM
If it is released, it is released.
 
overexchange
overexchange
thank you so much, this information will help me!!!
@André what is the other such stack that market uses?
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
I'm getting pushback on using JAXB2 Basics because of lack of updates (last release was April 2014 - that's not that old for a fairly straightforward tool that interfaces with another tool that hasn't changed significantly for longer than that) and early version (0.6.4).
 
user55340
@overexchange mean stacks are becoming more common. Lamp used to be the most common.
 
overexchange
overexchange
@André small projects? I think spring framework(in backend) is used for high scale projects right?
 
André
André
@overexchange AngularJS is pretty popular on front end, Spring is solid for the back-end if you aim for java.
 
user55340
2:51 PM
MEAN (software bundle)
MEAN is a free and open-source JavaScript software stack for building dynamic web sites and web applications. MEAN is a combination of MongoDB, Express.js and Angular.js, all of which run upon Node.js. == Components == The components of the MEAN stack are as follows: MongoDB, a NoSQL database; Express.js, a web applications framework; Angular.js, a JavaScript MVC framework for web apps; Node.js, a software platform for scalable server-side and networking applications. == Branding == The term MEAN was coined by Valeri Karpov, who was a MongoDB developer at the time. He introduces the term in one...
 
overexchange
overexchange
yes I want to utilise my java skills, instead of learning php, which is new for me
 
André
André
jhipster.github.io this one is pretty cool too
 
user55340
LAMP (software bundle)
LAMP is an archetypal model of web service solution stacks, named as an acronym of the names of its original four open-source components: the Linux operating system, the Apache HTTP Server, the MySQL relational database management system (RDBMS), and the PHP programming language. The LAMP components are largely interchangeable and not limited to the original selection. As a solution stack, LAMP is suitable for building dynamic web sites and web applications. Since its creation, the LAMP model has been adapted to other componentry, though typically consisting of free and open-source software. For...
 
user55340
Though php can also be Python or perl.
 
overexchange
overexchange
yes, but I want to stick to java in backend, this would not disappoint me for job as well, I guess
 
user55340
2:53 PM
Then do it.
 
overexchange
overexchange
I am half way here youtube.com/…
I learnt that html/css/JS <------ajax/jquery----> java framework spring has more demand in market and better paid than html/css/JS <----->Zend/django/...
a difference of 30K-40K
 
user55340
That in part expresses the availability of the workforce and the enterprise nature of Java. It also hints at the additional difficulty.
 
overexchange
overexchange
yes yes
sorry expresses the availability of workforce? if supply is goodthen why demand?
I agree with other two points: enterprise nature and additional difficulty
 
user55340
The demand for Java coders compared to the supply is greater than php coders and its supply.
 
overexchange
overexchange
may be because zend/django/.. may not fit in large scale environ
I am sure that all enterprise product companies do not use non-java frameworks based on the JD I receive thru emails
 
user55340
3:16 PM
They use whatever. When you get into the guts of it though, you find Java or c#.
 
user55340
Extending those technologies through the enterprise reduces costs of hiring and allows for easier interchange of workers within the enterprise.
 
overexchange
overexchange
yes yes
 
durron597
durron597
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
I did some this morning.
 
overexchange
overexchange
3:51 PM
This is the best video series I got from youtube on java. sources are taken from JLS youtube.com/watch?v=QgIg_-Teboc&list=PLD09B81BA81BFEDEF There are such 24 playlists
 
overexchange
overexchange
4:05 PM
Insane goal, This guy has to teach his level of soccer to all the soccer legends youtube.com/watch?v=HAwEuOgI7yU
 
Link TheProgrammer
Link TheProgrammer
4:41 PM
Hello
The answers I get are good suggestions... but not what I need
 
user41796
@LinkTheProgrammer So why not edit your question to be more clear about what you need then?
 
Link TheProgrammer
Link TheProgrammer
all I need is "Problem is, hashCode() isn't calculated on a per-state basis. Is there some method similar to hashCode() that I can use to compare two states without comparing their contents directly and is cheap on CPU usage?"
except at the time I didn't realize hashCode() is calculated on a per-state basis
It's mostly for my API that I'm building for minecraft to allow devlopers to create backwards compatible mods.
 
user41796
@LinkTheProgrammer - so my 30,000 foot read of your question is this. "I want something similar to hashcode because hashcode is bad." Then you find out hashcode isn't as bad as you thought. So why not go use hashcode?
 
user41796
The problem you thought you had isn't really a problem, so what's holding you back from going down that path?
 
Link TheProgrammer
Link TheProgrammer
According to Michael, hashCode varies upon the object, and I need to use it on the fly
And equals seems like the faster route, but inconsistent in implementation
 
user41796
4:58 PM
So you probably need to either throw together some prototypes or pick one of the two routes and work around the concerns you have.
 
user41796
I wouldn't worry about speed at this point. Focus on making sure the code is correct first.
 
Link TheProgrammer
Link TheProgrammer
Problem is, speed is everything and I try to get the code running as fast as possible the first time.
 
user41796
OK, so you need to prototype and compare then
 
user41796
Ultimately, you're asking for a prediction of the future. And if the community members were that good, we'd be cleaning house with online gambling shops.
 
Link TheProgrammer
Link TheProgrammer
what's wrong with a posteriori XD
 
user41796
5:06 PM
@LinkTheProgrammer a posteriori will come after you mock things up. a priori simply isn't going to happen in this case. :-)
 
Link TheProgrammer
Link TheProgrammer
Yeah, see I'm a little different than the rest... I tend to do things in reverse order sometimes...
What's the most efficient way to compare two arrays (excluding their Hamming Length)
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
By not needing it.
 
Link TheProgrammer
Link TheProgrammer
Can you explain what you mean please?
I might as well be asking "Um, how can I use regex on arrays of objects other than strings"
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
I mean that needing to check the entirety of two arrays is invariably going to suck. If you can adjust your design or your requirements to not need to do it, that will always be most performant.
 
Link TheProgrammer
Link TheProgrammer
A State object would hold an array of references to variables within another object
A target State object would be offered, so I could compare the target array with the true state of the object.
the alternative being MyClass.class.getDeclaredMethods(), which is the opposite of efficient
 
overexchange
overexchange
5:38 PM
If one learns ES6, Does angularJS framework still fits? Because ES6 introduced class keyword
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
sorry, was driving
why aren't you just using versioning? also, speed is not everything. code runtime performance (once it's "acceptable") is the least valuable metric
 
psr
psr
@RobertHarvey I worked somewhere that did that. (Maybe 90%). Let's just say that T-SQL is not a great general purpose programming language.
 
durron597
durron597
5:56 PM
17
Q: How do you manage the underlying codebase for a versioned API?

Dylan BeattieI've been reading up on versioning strategies for ReST APIs, and something none of them appear to address is how you manage the underlying codebase. Let's say we're making a bunch of breaking changes to an API - for example, changing our Customer resource so that it returns separate forename and...

rest versioning api-versioning
@GlenH7 You said you wanted more Stack Overflow rep
 
user41796
@durron597 Not sure I can put together anything better than what the top voted answer has already pulled in
 
durron597
durron597
@GlenH7 Me neither, but I thought that would be right up your alley, and a good shortcut for your 3k if you can get the bounty
 
user41796
It would. I'd likely go with the Facade that was suggested. It's easy enough to provide a hook at the authentication layer that would provide behind the scenes switching.
 
durron597
durron597
@GlenH7 I put the wrong link for work-environment in my recent status update. Could you fix it for me? It's this: bit.ly/1Stro4w
 
user41796
@durron597 so you want me to change: http: //bit.ly/1F2Iv38 to http: //bit.ly/1Stro4w?
 
user41796
6:06 PM
obviously without the borked links
 
durron597
durron597
yeah
 
user41796
k, done
 
durron597
durron597
I just must've copy/pasted the link for career development twice
probably I didn't copy the work environment link by mistake.
 
user41796
It happens, especially when dealing with a bunch of shortened links
 
durron597
durron597
0
Q: Give room owners the ability to edit old chat messages

durron597It seems strange to me that a diamond on any site (not just chat rooms for their site) can edit the old messages of anyone in any chatroom, yet room owners can't edit their old messages in rooms they own after the expiration period. Currently, Programmers is in the middle of a tag cleanup and I'...

feature-request edits chat
 
user41796
6:17 PM
Have 5 pieces of unicorn poo.
 
durron597
durron597
@GlenH7 Hooray, imaginary internet points!
 
enderland
enderland
I kind of want to post there, "yeah but that chat room is practically 1/2 moderators" :)
also relevant
1
Q: Inbox count for careers broken if you have unread, sent messages

enderlandIf you have a message (specifically question on a job posting) you sent and marked as unread, you get the following: All these do not update correctly (including Sent). It seems that messages that are "sent" are added incorrectly into the "Inbox" categories. They then do not appear in those ...

bug careers
read into that what you will ;)
 
durron597
durron597
@enderland Yeah, but I don't like having to ask for people to do stuff for me
 
user41796
@enderland So even SE is conspiring against you at the moment? :-)
 
whatsisname
whatsisname
6:34 PM
derp
 
durron597
durron597
whoa
 
whatsisname
whatsisname
SE appears to be down
 
durron597
durron597
 
whatsisname
whatsisname
@durron597: i get it for all SE sites
 
durron597
durron597
oh
 
whatsisname
whatsisname
6:35 PM
but not chat for whatever reason
 
user41796
@whatsisname Sockets are already open for chat, no DNS lookup required
 
whatsisname
whatsisname
it's back
 
user55340
Chat is a different beast.
 
Duga
Duga
 
user55340
7:04 PM
@RobertHarvey for that C and JIT question - consider llvm.
 
user55340
That is a common (and original target)
 
user55340
And JIT may act there on code that hasn't been completely compiled.
 
enderland
enderland
heh nice to see someone else blatantly copy formatting from one of your answers... lol
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
 
Stack Exchange
Stack Exchange
1
Q: Should I edit my bad questions even if it causes good answers to lose context?

EvorlorThere is a hypothetical user on Programmers.SE. Let's call him Devorlor. He asked some bad questions, but despite this, he received some very useful and upvoted answers. This hypothetical user was banned from asking questions on Programmers.SE, and was encouraged to edit his questions. There ...

discussion edits post-ban programmers-se
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
7:12 PM
It's probably a bad example, since the website has the information he needs.
But there's no need to be so harsh.
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens What's harsh? gnat's comment isn't terribly helpful, I'll admit. But we don't do book reviews. Michael's comments are fairly helpful especially given the unusual nature of that book. SJuan's type of comment is to be expected on a low quality question that barely meets the minimum length requirements.
 
user55340
@ThomasOwens actually it doesn't have the info. It says the info must be gotten from ESR and he will gladly divulge it.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
@MichaelT I can't get LLVM to run on Windows. I'll have to teach myself the C++ ecosystem using the Gnu tools, and then switch to LLVM when I learn how to build the damn thing.
 
whatsisname
whatsisname
13
Q: Being berated for using the toilet

DansmithSo, although I only have a month left working for them, the company I work for is complaining over my toilet use, I usually go once a day in the morning either just as I get in, or 30-40 minutes afterwards, I can't help it, when you have to go, you have to go, my manager sent me this email E...

health england
some people really like being punished
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey clang?
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
7:23 PM
Yes.
"Oh, those Windoze guys. We'll let them into the inner sanctum if they learn how to build Clang from scratch."
 
enderland
enderland
@whatsisname it always amuses me when an OP accepts an answer which is way downvoted. sounds clearly like "please validate me" seeking :(
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey gettamac?
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@GlenH7 Most of the comments are a bit harsh. He's not asking them for a book review, but if someone asked for a summary of the differences between Software Requirements 2 and Software Requirements 3 or Software Architecture in Practice 2nd and 3rd editions, and that information was not readily available on the book's website, on bookseller websites, or by a few simple searches, I'd expect that to be on-topic.
The only thing that makes it bad is that the book's website answers the question.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
@GlenH7 Pshaw. You kid.
 
durron597
durron597
*poster* @nycsouthpaw @justinamash http://t.co/4W3gpefhdw
Tweeted by darth on June 1, 2015 at 1:16 AM in reply to nycsouthpaw
 
user41796
7:26 PM
@ThomasOwens We have routinely closed out questions that are essentially "what's the diff between v1 and v2"
 
user55340
@ThomasOwens that draws from your expert book reading skills. Not your expert software development skills.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@GlenH7 Since when?
@MichaelT But it's a book about software development.
I would't have expected many people outside of software development to be familiar with the books I've named.
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens Standing policy to my understanding
 
user55340
I could do it for "what is the difference between Star Wars original and remake" without being an expert in those.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@GlenH7 I'm not aware of it.
 
user55340
7:28 PM
It's also a list question.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Why are we discussing a book question at all?
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@MichaelT It doesn't have to be. The changes are finite. A good answer would provde everything.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
It's not our job to do a diff on two books.
 
user55340
"In the new version Han doesn't shoot first" is a valid answer.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@MichaelT Valid? Yeah. Good? Nope.
I'd down vote answers that gave one or two things.
 
user55340
7:29 PM
@ThomasOwens and you have seen how well the community does with providing all the answers in one go.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@MichaelT I would be supportive of making those wiki locked.
 
user55340
And how willing people are to down vote answers.
 
user55340
Next question: what is the difference between the 2001 edition and the 2003 edition.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@MichaelT This goes back to doing background research. If it's not available on the books website, from booksellers, or by a few Google searches, why should we close the question here?
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens Equally valid to argue "why shouldn't we be closing them?"
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
7:32 PM
Are we seriously contemplating the diffing of two books as an on-topic?
 
user41796
looking over the books tag it appears that pretty much anything specifically related to books gets closed
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@RobertHarvey Yeah.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
I can think of so many ways that can go bad. "His book question was allowed to stay, why wasn't mine?"
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
4
Q: C Language - K&R 1st vs 2nd Edition?

domanokzI'm planning to buy a book to learn C Language. Many say K&R is a must-have book for C programmers so I chose it. I see that there are two editions. What are the differences between them?

books c
Not closed. Valid question.
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens Look at the posting date
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
7:35 PM
2
Q: Entity Framework book 1st Edition

webdad3I recently purchased the O'Reilly book: Programming Entity Framework by Julia Lerman. Unfortunately it is the 1st edition. I didn't realize that there was a newer edition. Which in hind sight explains the lessor price for the book. So my question... Should I return it and get the 2nd edition...

books entity-framework
 
user55340
And how many answers?
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@MichaelT 6
That's not unreasonable, IMO. 10 is when the flag gets triggers.
 
user41796
And the rest of us don't have the ability to search through the deleted questions to see what was closed off and deleted already.
 
user55340
@ThomasOwens abc how many of those answers answer the question of the differences?
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
@ThomasOwens Eloquently summarized by Anna Lear's first comment, below the question.
 
user41796
7:38 PM
You could almost use that K&R question as a duplicate target for any future question about version differences. "Go buy the updated version, there's a reason why it was updated."
 
user55340
@ThomasOwens and the entity framework doesn't even have the differences from the author.
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
7:55 PM
new job has gated check-ins already and a build manager
kinda nice.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
8:34 PM
@Telastyn already kicking off a new position? Congrats, I hadn't seen the conversation
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Want to know what's disappointing? How many different ways there are to define "software architecture". We have the bibliographic definitions from papers and articles in the SEI's software architecture bibliography, the classic definitions from prominent or influential books and papers...
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
yeh, started last Tuesday.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@Telastyn 'nother senior enterprisey .NET role?
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
last one wasn't very enterprisey. Lead Software Engineer with no other full time engineers so I get to pick and choose. Joining a bunch of contractors 6 months into greenfield. C#, Angular, Azure
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
8:36 PM
@Telastyn ah cool. You'll have to let me know what your opinion is of Angular after really getting to the guts of it
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
yeh, that's not my strength. I've seen one presentation about it, and it looks absolutely horrific
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@Telastyn How can you be a lead without any staff?
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
HR dictate?
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
I suppose. But it seems...odd.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ThomasOwens meaningless titles are a cheap tool.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
8:39 PM
You should give a rousing speech to an empty room.
And tell people you are motivating your software engineers.
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
it is, there's a bunch of requisitions open since the contractors are going to roll off in 6-12 months
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Ah. So you'll start to have a staff. That's good. You should be more familiar with the software by then. Assuming the constractors don't come on as full timers.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ThomasOwens Lately it sounds like you've finally taken a step back and started looking at the broader picture of some things. The overly structured engineering stuff like that of SEI tends to be a great hole in the sand people stick their heads into without realizing how much it limits their visibility
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@JimmyHoffa Finally? I come and go.
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
that's the idea. I don't anticipate any of these contractors staying perm, they're hardcore mercenary sorts.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
8:41 PM
For example, I like the CMMI. It has "Technical Solution". Doesn't differentiate between design and coding.
Or, since CMMI is for more than software, "design" and "implementation" are rolled into one process area.
The Development areas are "Requirements Development", "Technical Solution", "Product Integration", "Validation", "Verification", and "Supplier Agreement Management".
I've also poked around SEMAT. I like the concept a lot. But I don't agree with what they've defined as their alphas.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ThomasOwens mostly you seem pretty intent on the structural details from the stuff you talk about; important stuff definitely but it's focusing on those and arguing about them that has all those conflicts about "what is architecture" - that stuff's all meta-debate which doesn't really lead anyone towards learning anything useful
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
I'm torn. At some point, you need to be able to communicate with words.
If I say "architecture", I don't want to write two pages to say what it is and isn't.
I guess I find it hard to learn if I'm not talking the same language as someone else. If we could make normalizing easier, I think we'd all be in a better place.
 
durron597
durron597
@ThomasOwens I'm a lead without any staff
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ThomasOwens nah, too much incentive for many to keep us all confused and communicating in circles; entire industries of buzzwordwankers are supplied by this. Many people realize when they don't know the things others know; it's better to create their own set of terminology to sound like they at least know something - or even more valuably, something no one else knows! How valuable! And yet, I have used the same technique for different reasons; specifically creating new terms to avoid
using disputed terms with cultural baggage
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
I just wonder how other engineering disciplines did it. I don't really see the mechanical and electrical engineers at work bickering about what to call this widget or that tool or whatever.
So either I just literally don't see it and it happens, or everyone else figured it out.
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
8:49 PM
standardized textbooks and a few centuries?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
Attempting to unify the communication of the industry is impossible. The best people can do is to work with a self-consistent but novel terminology.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@JimmyHoffa Are you encouraging me to go write my own set of terminology?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ThomasOwens other engineering disciplines spent years maturing in isolation.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Henceforth, I will be calling "requirements" "do the foobahz".
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ThomasOwens I do it at times. I stopped using the term "repository" some years ago in my code because too many presume it's backed by a database, and use now the term "store"
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
8:51 PM
Interesting. Anyway, I just finished cleaning up errors found by my tests and everything passes. I think I'm going to call it a night.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
How about defining "software architecture" as "endless boilerplate in blub languages?"
Oh, wait. That's enterprise software architecture.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
I'm trying to come up with a concise definition, but to me, architecture is the choices that you make that drive everything else. The OS you use, the fact that you have three tiers, the use of a message queue versus CORBA, the number of boards in your embedded system, ethernet or fibre channel for data transfer.
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
@JimmyHoffa - btw, did you see my weekend comment about Tangent work? I'm curious as to thoughts: tangent-lang.blogspot.com
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
The things that once you go down the path of them, it's really expensive to come back for one reason or another. If you're making a box that someone else talks to, your interfaces (inputs and outputs) are part of your architecture.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
9:04 PM
That seems like as good a definition as any.
 
user41796
9:19 PM
@RobertHarvey - would you care to fire up the cannons? Or I'm happy enough to flag. The whole post ought to go though.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ThomasOwens go to the root and elaborate from there. "The choices that you make that drive everything else" - if this is what you're trying to come up with a term for, do so. "Architecture" is far too open to interpretation. Those choices sound akin to me like Constraints, dig into your vocabulary, think on it. You could probably come up with a more contextually cohesive term for the specific purpose you intend in whatever you're writing.
@Telastyn Nope, looking now..
@Telastyn print (il: int list) => void {} <-- is this just a type signature that's necessary to instruct the compiler to create an instance of print where the actual declaration is deigned above?
or is there some resolution-of-dispatch-paths going on where your giving no body, makes the resolver look to a predefined body?
@Telastyn totally irrelevant, but I'm curious why you went with int | int [int] instead of [] | int [int] - they would both do identical behaviours where print [] prints nothing
Graphs can have a unary or nullary terminal, people do it either way, just an interesting preference I sometimes ponder on the reason for
@Telastyn oh, if I kept reading you explain the empty print function...
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
9:44 PM
No great reason, just inexperience making those sort of constructs.
Yeah, it's a dispatch point that the compiler is currently too stupid to build itself.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@Telastyn not inexperience, it's a typical thing. I just wonder as you'll see people seem to arbitrarily choose in Haskell examples to define data Tree a = Branch a [Tree a] | Leaf a or data Tree a = Branch a [Tree a] | Terminal and they both work exactly the same. Just wonder sometimes why people choose unary vs. nullary terminals, appears totally random.
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
I think I wanted the nullary version, but since print here is print line, I was concerned that the trailing nothing would fubar stuff.
Mostly I was fighting the compiler, not the example.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@Telastyn I'm curious why you don't just implicitly promote the a/b to accessors directly? You instead have the head and tail, if you made it implicit you would name them head and tail instead of a and b and the boilerplate would be unnecessary. It could be done as implicit but overridable by an explicit.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
@GlenH7 BOOM.
 
user41796
ty
 
user41796
9:54 PM
The world is a marginally better place now. :-)
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@Telastyn shouldn't be particularly hard for the sum type processor in the compiler to simply expand the AST to have the exact boiler plate you wrote. If you had macros you could do it outside of the compiler...but macros are feckin' crazy.
I guess you could end up with collisions that may be unpleasant where a is in the type sig, and is a member of (this) such that the print doesn't know which a it's grabbing
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
I was going to, but since they're constructor arguments, they're maybe not automatically supposed to be public
I was thinking of a modifier to signal to the compiler to make them public, but I didn't like any of my ideas for it.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@Telastyn that's reasonable for product types, I disagree with that for sum types. Aside from that, publicizing read-only data is basically always perfectly safe, and it pushes people that much harder to separate data and logic which is the cornerstone of reusable logic that abstracts over variant types
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
Well, the sum type has no variable params, it builds a product type first and passes into the sum type ctor.
 
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