The Whiteboard

Ixrec

10:10 PM

Frequented Tags: [education]
lol

user55340

@durron597 there is a post about it:

user55340

81

Q: What should the system be deleting automatically that it already isn't?

So this question got me thinking... We have several automatic processes in place for cleaning up cruft, deleting questions that are very unlikely to help anyone else. They're fairly conservative though; an awful lot of lousy questions hang around much longer, occasionally cropping up to annoy fo...

user55340

@gnat it would be curious to see what he thinks of the site now. He spent an enormous amount of emotional capital (one can only care about a site so much before walking away) in giving it the 90 degree change to scope with little support from the community at the time. Is the direction that he pushed the one he would see us continuing? Or did we veer off some other way?

Ixrec

what is the scope change he pushed?

user55340

NPR to P.SE. Are we the P.SE he was pushing to?

user114359

10:26 PM

There is a pending edit on this question that should probably be rejected. The question needs a lot more help than that edit provides.

user114359

-1

Q: Is there any good reason to learn/use tkinter instead of more developed framework?

i need to make a an Cross-platform GUI for an Local intranet within university. I heared that Tkinter is outdated framework and not frequently updated. Is there is any strong reason to stick with Tkinter instead of more matured framework like pyqt.

python gui

Ixrec

I couldn't tell what to do with that edit, since it obviously doesn't make the question reopenable, but all of the reject reasons are blatantly wrong since it does improve the question a little bit

user55340

@Ixrec here - this post from him tells some of his story.

user55340

21

A: No more "Chairman Mao reincarnate" :(

This post made me chuckle: in leaving, I think my deepest regret is that I was never able to explain sufficiently or clearly enough to people like yourself who still cling to "Not Programming Related" what the site is or how Stack Exchange works. The FAQ isn't what moderators—including me—act on...

user114359

@Ixrec This is one of those borderline cases in terms of quality. It fixed some spelling and removed a little fluff. But the idea is if you don't have enough rep to edit by yourself, don't waste others' time approving minor edits.

user114359

10:28 PM

And the question really does need 100x as much editing to be reopenable.

user55340

So long Mark, and thanks for all the fish :) I don't think people realize just how close this site came to not existing due to the 'not programming related' aspect. Thank you for a year and a half of putting yourself in a rather unpopular and often uncomfortable position. I think the site is doing well now, and will continue to do so. — Tim Post ♦ Mar 3 '12 at 5:22

Ixrec

@Snowman I didn't really see it as a "minor" edit; though the lack of a "too minor" reject reason is arguably part of the problem here

user114359

@Ixrec I agree, there needs to be a reason that spells out what is in the help center and what is reinforced when you edit with low rep: don't suggest minor edits because it sucks up others' time. Normally one of us will come along and clean that stuff up and not clog the review queue.

Ixrec

normally if it's "too minor" in the sense that they missed other stuff, I'll just "improve" the edit

but for something like this, obviously I can't just edit that question into something reopenable; there's nothing in there to build an on-topic question out of

user114359

@Ixrec Which is another issue: it will show up twice, also in the reopen queue. Honestly I rarely vote to reopen questions specifically because either 1. someone makes a trivial edit that does not improve the on-topicness or scope of the question at all or 2. someone with enough rep who disagrees with the CVs votes to reopen. I can't do anything about 2, but I can help with 1.

Ixrec

10:33 PM

@MichaelT I was thinking when that question got linked that it seemed a bit unprofessional to say "I hated <thing you did>" in the first three sentences of a farewell post; glad I wasn't the only one who had that reaction

user114359

@Ixrec If you read some of the old meta posts you will see the author of that was a big fan of not-programming-related which is all the junk we are cleaning up now.

Ixrec

@Snowman I totally lost you there; you don't vote to reopen because...1) reopened questions get more edits, and 2) other people do that anyway?

user114359

@Ixrec I do not approve trivial edits to closed questions because I will see the same low-quality question again in the reopen queue once the edit is approved.

Ixrec

@Snowman yeah, I actually recognized that user for exactly that reason

@Snowman okay that makes sense

user114359

I am much more inclined to approve a trivial edit to an open question

Ixrec

10:36 PM

I feel like it's really rare to see suggested edits on closed questions

user114359

I tell you what, the grind up to 10k (now 11k) rep has fostered a new appreciation for stack exchange and the community that keeps it going. Even on a smaller site like this one it can be a bit of work to keep the signal to noise ratio high.

Ixrec

the reopen queue often has edits that fail to understand why the post was off-topic, but that's usually from the OP

user114359

If you see a marginal question and it has a lot of back and forth in comments or a meta post, invite the asker to come here to chat and help hash out how to improve the question. Personally, I would rather fix a fixable question than watch it languish and eventually deleted, with the asker not understanding how to use the site.

user114359

I also want to add about the goodbye post and the tag cleanup: going back and reading a lot of those education and career advice questions four years after they were asked is really eye-opening. It shows very clearly how those questions rarely age well and rarely are applicable to anyone but the asker.

Ixrec

most of them boil down to polls

user114359

10:39 PM

And as we recently hashed out, questions need to be applicable to more than the person asking.

user114359

-4

Q: Can you people here stop being so rude?

This is a site where people who are clueless ask question for help. WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE HERE SO MEAN? why do you close questions and downvote them instead of answering? be nice to others! even if you even think the question is off topic or something DONT DOWNVOTE IT or close it! there are people...

discussion html

Ixrec

which makes it really easy to tell what needs closing

user114359

See? Like this question. It should be closed and likely will be. But the asker tried, so we should help him improve the question.

user114359

0

Q: Generic PHP web interface for handling concurrent updates optimistically

I'm looking in to writing a new PHP based CMS which handles concurrent edits optimistically like source version control rather than pesimistic locking like wordpress. I want to be able to write some general php pages to handle any conflict in a user friendly way so that conflict solving is simpl...

design-patterns php git concurrency merging

gnat

@MichaelT I bet we veer off somewhat; I can only hope it's not too much :)

durron597

10:42 PM

@Ixrec mine is learning

user114359

@gnat I have been a member of this site for more than four years, active only recently. I always liked the idea, but I felt the quality was low early on.

Ixrec

I've never really been a fan of the "useful to people other than you" justification for things, that feels like a pedantic way of saying "we don't care about your problems" (admittedly we probably don't, but it feels rude to say so); I much prefer something like "objectively answerable"; questions not useful to other people tend to be ones that aren't answerable for plenty of other reasons

but that's a minor issue

@Snowman even in the short time I've been here, I feel like the quality I see on the front page has gone up

it's been ages since I last saw the front page flooded with negative scores

user114359

@Ixrec You are not a special snowflake. Neither am I. Whatever problem you or I have, there are others of the millions of programmers, developers, software engineers, whatevers in this world that have been or will be in a similar situation. When that time comes, your question should be reusable.

durron597

@MichaelT 10 months later that isn't status-completed .

gnat

@Ixrec think of this as reflection on the fact that askers are at the very bottom of "Stack Exchange food chain". For the sake of completeness, answerers aren't much higher either...

...Wonder how often we miss that "SE food chain" has four groups, not three (my own answer here is example of this happening). Askers -> feed answerers -> feed voters -> feed googlers — gnat Feb 27 at 6:48

user114359

10:49 PM

I have found so many questions all over the SE network that have helped me in various areas: software, gaming, cooking, home improvement... there are tons of questions I never had to ask because someone already asked, got a good answer, and it was there waiting for me.

2

user114359

THAT is the real value of the Stack Exchange network to the world: a repository of knowledge that is based around problems and solutions.

user114359

Right now, my problem is lack of a sandwich. Unfortunately, SE cannot help me walk to the kitchen and make dinner, so I'll be back later.

Telastyn

11:09 PM

oddly enough, my problem is also lack of a sandwich.

Robert Harvey

11:26 PM

Thank-you note after interview... Good? Risky? Waste of time?

Telastyn

many online advice things say they're a vital mechanism to show interest and desire.

I find them to be offensively a waste of my time.

Robert Harvey

I've looked at a few surveys about sending thank you notes. Basically, if you don't send them, you will be part of the 5% that doesn't, and apparently that matters to employers, who might not hire an otherwise qualified candidate.

Baffling.

My wife works at the school where I did the committee interview. I asked her where I should send a thank you note. She said "Don't bother; they just throw them in the trash unread."

Telastyn

I think I've gotten 1, maybe 2 from all of the candidates I've interviewed.

HR or my boss might've gotten more

I believe my reaction was "what a suck up. How do they think that is going to change my evaluation of their skills?"

Robert Harvey

According to The Ladders, a vast majority of candidates send thank-you notes. Perhaps that's selection bias.

And there are articles like this one that actually describe in detail the risks of sending them.

Telastyn

also might be more common in professions that don't have skills to evaluate.

user55340

11:39 PM

10

Q: Should a thank you letter be sent after an interview?

I've never sent a thank you letter after an interview. I mean, I wouldn't send a thank you letter after a first date. I've asked one senior dev about this and he says he's never got a thank you letter or email and said he would consider it 'cheesy'. However, all the main UK job websites are ada...

interviewing software-industry united-kingdom

Telastyn

I have never sent one. And I never will.

user55340

I sent ones for the last three interviews I did... not sure how much it helped (or not) but seems like a standard thing in today's world (with email being so easy)

Robert Harvey

Ah, the eternal, delicate balance between being a renegade and a suck-up.

user55340

That said, I'm not a fan and wouldn't count it against anyone who I interviewed if they didn't.

user55340

(but I'm also not a hiring manager... so my opinion there is... well... of someone who doesn't like them)

whatsisname

11:55 PM

yeah thank you letters seem dumb

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