this may seem like a dumb question, but does anyone just use one big monitor?

scanning my visual field up-down instead of left-right I find uses my neck considerably less

I have two 30" monitors horizontally side by side

I have to turn my head quite a bit to see whats on the other one

@whatsisname and that works well for you?

yes

O_O I've used 24" monitors for years, 30" holy crap...

I guess this leads me into another question...how do you guys deal with dry eyes?

My eyes get so red and irritated...seriously, I feel like I have every problem that a programmer could have

there's an unused 30" right outside my office that I've contemplated snagging but it wouldn't really fit on my desk

I suspect I'd get used to it as I figure most people these days are used to it so it doesn't cause them any neck strain, but I've yet to be stuck where I couldn't just rotate the monitors to vertical and not have to deal with it. Besides I prefer this orientation.

yeah I can't stand vertical orientation, i've tried it a few times but always hate it

@BobbyBushay ...you're working 12 hour days....

@BobbyBushay have you considered manual labor?

@Ampt lol, yes

@BobbyBushay they're doing some highway construction over here, perhaps you could give them a hand?

do you have glasses?

the challenge isn't money, I get paid very well for the work that I do

It's just that we are very understaffed

@JimmyHoffa No, us first!

and for the next 3 weeks I have to make it work

@Ampt yes, I have glasses

but I prefer contacts

had your vision checked lately?

@enderland: no

good, that would have been too weird

@whatsisname I got used to it years ago because I use a vertical start bar - allows way more stuff to be on it before it starts scrolling the running-programs

@Ampt yeah, within the year I had an appointment

get justgetflux.com

@BobbyBushay hmm.. you just have all sorts of prublems

don't wear your contacts as long then

yes, code for a while without them each day

hahaha

sure you might prefer them, but you won't prefer being blind when you're 40 if you keep abusing yourself

lol, this isn't something that I enjoy...but I do appreciate the advice

I'm not looking to make a career out of 70+ hr work weeks

how many hours do you work in a week?

yeah, I really liked contacts when I used them for like a year, but the last 2-3 months even when I put in brand new ones my eyes were seriously irritated so I went back to glasses and it went away. Not everyone can wear contacts...

@enderland: though I think I know someone that knows someone there

that companies product looks quite similar to something I've seen recently....

@enderland it really varies..probably between 50 - 80 hrs (with a 40 hours of that being programming)

@BobbyBushay get a different job

are you getting paid hourly

@enderland the work isn't bad, and the hours will be less once we're able to deliver our first software product

no

then why are you working for free

how many weeks have you done 50-80? the "it really varies" part suggests a long time...

for the past 2.5 years I've averaged 60 hr work weeks...I gross close to $80,000/yr, but my body is killing me

get a different job, jeesh

treating symptoms instead of the problem here

@enderland the american way!

OK, so the problem is just too many hours at the computer?

do you have an ownership stake in this company?

What is comfortable for you guys?

yes

ok, then its not as bad

30 hrs?

but still bad

@BobbyBushay way way the fuck too many... shit... 60 hour weeks for 2.5 years? Feeeeck THAT.

@JimmyHoffa Do you average 40 hour weeks? Or at what point is it too many

obviously 60 hrs is not a good number

the problem is you are burning out (since you are working 1.5x what most folks here work). being in front of the screen in a symptom of this problem

I'm living proof

it depends from person to person and situation to situation

I average about 50/week over the year, but I'm paid hourly

@BobbyBushay it varies for the person. Frankly I think 40 is ideal in that it's not too much for just about anyone, and it's less than some can do, but still plenty to be quite productive.

if you can code breathe you can find a job doing programming for 40-45 hours a week

and I take nearly 30-40 days off

@whatsisname Have you ever had any problems working that?

because I live in a magical place

no, but few people have gigs where that is doable

lol

I also don't have any kids

Some people can handle more some less, lots of things people really need to learn about themselves rather than trying to look for what works for others

there is no way in hell I would work 60 hours a week every week all year long

but work 70 hours/week for 2 weeks then go on vacation for 2 weeks? no problem

@JimmyHoffa Good advice

I did 60-80 hour weeks for a few months at a time when I first joined the industry years ago, meat grinders can solidify your career, but even that shouldn't be sustained for long periods, and it should definitely be something you move on from after a year or two at most

@JimmyHoffa That is exactly where I'm at...ha. Tired of grinding out the long days

You should easily be able to demand the same salary of a large company that will give you a new type of experience and only ask 40/week of you

if you been doing that for 2.5 years

+1

what kind of ownership stake do you have in this company

@JimmyHoffa This isn't a money problem...we've tried to hire people to start offsetting the workload

It's just been difficult finding programmers with the right skill set to learn what we need

so then, what happens, is it all just falls back on me to do

do you file a form 1120S or similar with your taxes?

@BobbyBushay it's a problem, and the solution is to find another job for the same or more pay.

where is the money coming from thats paying you in the first place

which you should be capable of, so I'd ditch the problem.

assuming you're in the US

@whatsisname he gave salary in USD

... guess I'm assuming "bobby" is reflective of a he and not a she ;)

lol

yes, a he

is this company an S-corp, and are you one of its officers

@JimmyHoffa The problem is working too much...I enjoy the job I have...I'm just trying to figure out how to outsource what I know

Thank you guys for the advice

In short, I should quit my job...find a new job, get paid more money, and work less

there are a few things

I'm guessing not

1) someone at your company needs to do better resource planning (not you, since you are already overloaded)

2) working as many hours as you have is causing burnout most likely

3) it is entirely possible to get dev jobs paying similar which require considerably fewer hours of work (what region do you live in? 80k might be high in some areas of the country but low in others)

@enderland I'm in the US

4) if you can't find people, figure out what the problem is - do you have recruiting? do you have hr? what is the issue? sounds like money isnt' the issue

@BobbyBushay yeah but 80 in san fran is a lot different than 80k in louisiana

So I found this with boredbutton.com: nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap

@enderland MN

if it's a small company, probably what happened was some people had a great idea, the work scaled but the company didn't and now the workload is 2x what it was before and you don't have 2x or 3x the employees

@BobbyBushay MN party!

in minnesota?

where

@enderland Yeah, that's pretty accurate...I guess I just came on here looking for some good advice on how to "work through" the 60 hours of programming...but after hearing you guys I'm crazy for thinking that is realistic

in the cities

MG is a nice place

@BobbyBushay: so if you are getting 80k/year, and working 60 hour weeks, you're only making 26/hr

people can get that right out of college

@whatsisname Hey, it's a start, and I've learned a ton of what NOT to do, lol

you're selling yourself short

and you haven't indicated what your ownership agreement is so I'm going to assume at this point you don't actually have one

you should be able to get a job in the 40/hour range or more, and only work a normal 40 hour work week

@whatsisname I do have ownership...just not really looking to talk about that here on a chat forum

and use those extra 4 hours per day to actually be alive

well, if you actually have ownership, as in you file a 1120S or similar, that plays into it differently

@whatsisname When you first got started in programming did you ever have to work long hours?

no

my first gig out of college was salary, and when 5 oclock rolled around I dropped whatever I was doing and left

programmers are in demand, working 60 hour weeks is a choice you make very willingly

I think the majority of this chatroom works less than 45 hours a week on average throughout a year, perhaps even less

@enderland: maple grove is alright if you wanna buy stuff, I wouldn't want to live here though

their transport engineers need a solid slap in the face too

@whatsisname yeah. well, I grew up there a few years ago - its turned into a retail mecaa cluster@#%#@

what sucks is our office is near the southern border with plymouth, so we don't have immediate access to the mecca of chain restaurants that is arbor lakes

just subway

ugh

lol

when I grew up MG was a fraction of the retail mess it is now

Guys, thank you for the advice

I gtg

but I really appreciate all the good advice

I've gotta take off too, been here too long today already :)

i wonder if he'll ever be back

@WorldEngineer anicca...

is your gah directed at the development books question?