The Whiteboard

3:00 PM

@Ixrec hmm k

@PeterTòmasScott posting on meta is a great way to get SE not to review things :D

@enderland Or... post and setup a spam-bot that sends an exponentially larger amount of emails containing nothing but the link to that Meta post until they respond?

enderland

practically speaking, SE has little reason to care about P.SE too

@PeterTòmasScott thats... one possibility :)

BarryTheHatchet

but if you have an idea for a new Stack Overflow TV channel or a free gender-discriminate workshop, go right ahead and propose it

this is why the introduction of MOBILE CHAT BETA UI was such a (pleasant) surprise to me

also there seems to be a push lately to educate more about what Chat is and how it should work, which is great

enderland

I've considered suggesting Visionary to check out chat, but that feels like a fireworks show if he's as... inconsiderate here as he is towards others on meta

Ixrec

I'll probably just minimize the window and focus on my real job if that happens

there are people here much better at talking to angry people than I am

user55340

3:02 PM

@enderland go back to where I linked his past interactions here and the deleted message.

enderland

@MichaelT didn't realize that was the same user...

@Ixrec I'm way too patient for my own good

Ixrec

that's why you have the diamond

user55340

It would make gnat/barry interactions look like a nice picnic in the park.

enderland

@Ixrec becoming a moderator had a lot of impact on my ability to handle those conversations too :)

user55340

@enderland jt0dd, Jonathan Todd, curious programmer, visionary. All the same.

enderland

3:05 PM

ahhhh..

Jimmy Hoffa

whaa

Ixrec

that does explain a few things

Jimmy Hoffa

I just got a "Welcome! Be Nice." chat message

user55340

All the previous had question bans, deleted the account, vowed never to return.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT seen that?

like a popup on refresh

user55340

3:07 PM

@JimmyHoffa yep.

enderland

@JimmyHoffa it's for remedial people, based on some heuristics on chat messages

Jimmy Hoffa

They made changes to Chat.SE; or I'm being warned

Ixrec

"remedial people"?

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT so you're remedial as well eh?

user55340

@Ixrec and the puzzle pieces start to fit together?

user55340

3:08 PM

@JimmyHoffa saw it last night when logging on again.

Kit Z. Fox

@JimmyHoffa I got that yesterday.

Jimmy Hoffa

aye. they think they can silence The Whiteboard! We will not be silenced! We demand Coffee, and we demand it Scotch!

enderland

@Ixrec bleh, that joke really didn't work when I can't has words

user41796

@JimmyHoffa They made changes. But that's orthogonal to the need for you to be warned...

Ixrec

I was worried you were saying we're all on some secret mod list of people too close to contentious chat incidents

Peter Tòmas Scott

3:09 PM

So... chat.SE makes moral judgements?

Ixrec

???

enderland

@Ixrec that was the joke :P

user41796

@MichaelT I wish we could dig up the quote where he said he wouldn't be back

user41796

would be convenient to post that as answer to his latest MPSE rant

BarryTheHatchet

2

Q: A Welcome Notification Bar gets displayed every time when opening chat

A Welcome Notification Bar gets displayed on the top every time I open chat, though I have opened it many times and I have 20 reputation also. It's quite annoying to see it again and again on the top. As mentioned in the comments, this post is different from Why does a welcome pop up appear upon ...

29

Q: Why does a welcome pop up appear upon entering the chat room?

I am a chat room owner for two years, so I'm not quite new to chat. I just opened my browser and clicked on the tab on which I had opened my chat room. I get shown a welcome pop up, which shouldn't happen, because I've obviously visited chat before: Can anyone tell me what's going on ?

support chat

enderland

3:10 PM

@JimmyHoffa everyone on chat got that

Jimmy Hoffa

@PeterTòmasScott morality is fungible. That is to say mushrooms are a fungus, therefore they are moral and we can pay for them, so I wish to buy morality and eat it with some bolognese.

BarryTheHatchet

also (:P):

I dispute your assertion that you shouldn't see it just because you've been in chat before. I see long-time regulars behaving like total nincompoops in chat all the time. A reminder of the rules is not a bad thing! — BarryTheHatchet 4 hours ago

Jimmy Hoffa

@BarryTheHatchet presumably you're being self-deprecating there? :)

burn

self-high-five

Ok, back to emacs and coffeescript and all that is the work to be getting done..

BarryTheHatchet

@JimmyHoffa :(

nice drive-by flaming there Hoffa

Ixrec

honestly, I thought it was a glitch and SE had forgotten I've been in chat a million times, so I didn't follow any of the links...

Peter Tòmas Scott

3:13 PM

No THIS is drive-by flaming: youtube.com/watch?v=7R6_Chr2vro

Well, I've had enough distraction from this site for now.

user55340

@GlenH7 doable if one digs through all deleted posts on meta.

enderland

@enderland again, your statements are falsely justified and ridiculous, thats all I have to say to you. — Viziionary 45 secs ago

user41796

I get so tired of the endless comment threads that any post from him creates

user55340

And... Yea.

user55340

@GlenH7 I'm glad Jorg and Doc were the other 20k voters.

user41796

3:20 PM

Just another embodiment of the "I'm Special!!! anti-pattern...

BarryTheHatchet

heh

user55340

Ah! Found it...

user55340

Nov 7 '14 at 15:03, by Oded

@maple_shaft he seems to be a generally angry individual. If even I know him, that should tell you something ;)

user55340

(not what @GlenH7 was looking for... but a hint at the... wider breadth of the personalities involved)

enderland

@Yannis He(/she)'s being rude, albeit in an intelligent manner, to me, I'm simply returning the favor. — Viziionary 34 secs ago

Ixrec

3:24 PM

you're still talking about him?

enderland

that was after yannis removed one of his comments. lol

BarryTheHatchet

I feel a ban coming on

user55340

Jul 8 '14 at 19:27, by Yannis Rizos

I suspect the OP won't be returning to the site anytime soon. Which, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

user55340

Not quite what you were looking for...

BarryTheHatchet

@GlenH7 Dunno, doesn't seem terribly constructive to me.

user41796

3:26 PM

I wonder if Yannis knows Viziionary's previous names

user41796

@BarryTheHatchet What can I say? Some days I give in to the temptation...

enderland

I wonder if SE makes me more patient overall

Duga

@LexLi: yes, I understand you. The matter is that StackOverflow is in the Edge between the Open source world and the Closed world. I think that it is 90% belongs to the open source world. The idea is not the open source the system. the idea is to open source a limited version with restricted licence to meet the programmers needs in the world. — ProEns08 17 secs ago

BarryTheHatchet

@amon Did you find a way to automatically set the "description" of an automatically-triggered build? It annoys me a bit that they're blank by default

@GlenH7 You shouldn't; you're a mod

Yannis

@GlenH7 Missed it at first, but I went looking for past nonsense as he got more aggressive.

amon

3:30 PM

@BarryTheHatchet The description is intended as a “this is what the job is supposed to do” explanation, rather than a place for results. I don't think the template engine is activated for that field.

user41796

@Yannis Not so surprising how he has a habit of revealing himself that way

BarryTheHatchet

@amon I don't want to put results in it

@amon I want it to say, I dunno, "Automated trunk build" or something. I realise it's possible to determine how it was started by other means, but the description turns up in a few more obvious places

Yannis

@GlenH7 It's never a good sign when people change their account name that often /cc: @BarryTheHatchet ;P

BarryTheHatchet

who's @BarryTheHatchet?

Miguel van de Laar

http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/312069/can-i-use-hibernate-in-an-existing-database?noredirect=1#comment658822_312069
OP's comment is not very helpful....

user41796

3:33 PM

@Yannis I was toying with making an MSE request to make it easier to identify when users do that. It's generally not a big deal, but there seems to be a strong correlation between problem users and frequent name changes.

amon

@BarryTheHatchet the description applies to a project, not to a job instance. The trigger is already displayed prominently for a job instance.

BarryTheHatchet

@amon No I'm referring to the build description, not that of the project/job

@amon Can't see that. Where is it?

user55340

@MiguelvandeLaar nope. Not helpful at all. Possibly a good question if the user can add sufficient information.

enderland

@Yannis I'm not seeing any rudeness in my comments, am I just being oblivious?

BarryTheHatchet

@enderland You're being argumentative but not rude

user41796

3:36 PM

@BarryTheHatchet But with that particular user, the very definition of rude is to have a countering opinion.

user41796

For example, you were exceptionally rude to that person by pointing out the logical fallacy behind their argument.

Miguel van de Laar

@MichaelT Agreed. That is the essence of my comment. I don't think I can enumerate precisely enough what information is lacking for OP to understand how to improve the question enough...

BarryTheHatchet

@GlenH7 Yep, so it seems.

@amon ^ That description is manual, and very prominent. I'd love SCM Polling to populate the same field. Otherwise I'm not happy that the difference between automated trunk builds and manual tag/branch builds is sufficiently clear everywhere.

user55340

@MiguelvandeLaar in questions like theses I'm not sure if the op knows how to gather sufficient information or present it in a useful way.

enderland

^

"I'm over my head, please help me"

user55340

3:38 PM

I try to be optimistic, but more often than not such elaborating in comments about what we need goes unanswered.

amon

@BarryTheHatchet interesting. I've never used that. But I should. I instead rewrite the build name to include the branch name.

Yannis

@enderland Didn't see anything wrong with your comments when I first read them, and I won't bother taking another look without a flag.

user55340

Can it have loops? Is there one and only one path between any two points? — MichaelT 20 hours ago

BarryTheHatchet

@amon Programmatically or manually? Didn't realise builds had names beyond the ID- that sounds interesting.

amon

@BarryTheHatchet programmatically. There's a plugin somewhere. I basically use #${branchname}-${commit id}-${build number} rather than #3

Ixrec

3:45 PM

hm, our job does pull in the PR descriptions somehow so it's obviously not master

user41796

FWIW, I dropped a VTC of "unclear" on Viziionary's meta rant from earlier today as I can't find an actual question or discussion point in there.

Ixrec

tbh I'm not sure what closing meta posts accomplishes, given how few there are (except maybe dupes)

user55340

@Ixrec a quiet roomba?

enderland

@GlenH7 you monster!

Ixrec

@MichaelT again, given the low volume I'd rather even posts like that stick around a bit more than they would on the main site just so no one can accuse us of censoring the whistleblowers or whatever

but meh, not a big deal either way

user41796

3:50 PM

@Ixrec If there was an discussion point or a question to be answered, I'd be fine with it. But it's really just a long winded rant against the site. So I don't see the value in keeping it open or keeping it on the site.

user41796

@Ixrec deleted posts are still there and site mods can search for deleted posts. So they haven't really gone anywhere

Ixrec

yeah, go for it

user41796

AFAIK, there's only one post that was completely deleted from the database

Ixrec

boats?

user41796

Yep, the programming on a boat question

BarryTheHatchet

3:54 PM

@amon that sounds like what I want - thanks!

well, not specifically what I was asking for

but something that I'd like to use

you know what I mean

enderland

@Yannis thanks - never sure on stuff like that, sometimes people see legitimate problems when I don't, always nice to have someone else verify

user41796

@Viziionary: I'm under orders to stop complaining about gnat so I can't speak to that. — BarryTheHatchet 1 hour ago

user41796

@BarryTheHatchet - Is that comment in reference to my earlier request to you about leaving things be with gnat?

BarryTheHatchet

@GlenH7 among other things why?

enderland

you guys are being so coy hah

define coy

BarryTheHatchet

4:04 PM

ffs lol

user41796

The point I was trying to make earlier was that continued bickering between you two isn't doing anyone any favors. And I was asking you to drop the matter as it wasn't helping anything.

BarryTheHatchet

@JimmyHoffa plz2make sidebar widget for dictionary definitions

@GlenH7 Yes, I understand

user41796

But I certainly don't have the authority to "order" you or anyone to do anything to that effect.

BarryTheHatchet

@GlenH7 Strict literal interpretation not required

// use strict;

user41796

Loosely, it was more of "you two are both acting like arses, so please cut it out."

BarryTheHatchet

4:05 PM

# Disabled for now
#use strict;

@GlenH7 Actually it was "you specifically are acting like an arse, so please cut it out, but I won't say anything at all to the guy who started by throwing around public accusations of 'lying'" ahem

However, I wasn't going to bring it up here again.

Speaking honestly, I'm not sure why you have, but that's fine

user41796

I can see the perspective you're putting on that, yes

BarryTheHatchet

I'm more interested in figuring out where my next coffee is going to come from, and who's going to clean my kitchen

user41796

I was more concerned that you thought I was ordering you to do something. While an entertaining thought, it's definitely not within my purview.

BarryTheHatchet

I think it's going to be me :(

@GlenH7 Oh, no, not at all

user41796

ok, then I'll move on to more interesting subjects. Like @enderland's recent inflammatory behaviour...

BarryTheHatchet

4:08 PM

Though the concept of being able to boss Supergirl around is entertaining indeed eyes glaze over

@GlenH7 don't you mean.....

MOD ABUSE!

Robert Harvey

OK, I have a radical idea.

2

user41796

Shut the whole site down?

BarryTheHatchet

I suggested that a while ago.

Robert Harvey

Let's make use of the Notice functionality that every site on the SE network has. It puts a thin banner along the top of every index page.

user41796

STWSD is a catchy little acronym

BarryTheHatchet

4:10 PM

@GlenH7 (It also seemed like a conveniently effective way to make my point to Vizzionary without actually making it, y'know? :P)

Robert Harvey

New here? Read the help center before posting!

BarryTheHatchet

@RobertHarvey oh god

@RobertHarvey lol yeah that'll do it

enderland

@RobertHarvey ... OR ELSE ?

user41796

... OR ELSE WE'LL SIC OUR BOTS ON YOU!

Ixrec

don't all SEs already have a big banner for unregistered users which points toward the tour?

BarryTheHatchet

4:11 PM

FINALLY

Robert Harvey

[Link to on-topic]

BarryTheHatchet

@Ixrec I thought so. I guess the problem here isn't so much unregistered users as stupid registered ones.

Robert Harvey

@Ixrec Yes, but this one will be visible to everyone, all the time.

user55340

One of doc's meta posts was asking how to get more people to read the faq. That might help.

enderland

@BarryTheHatchet plenty of both

BarryTheHatchet

4:11 PM

@RobertHarvey That doesn't sound in any way annoying, or likely to be ineffective

Robert Harvey

Sarcasm?

BarryTheHatchet

No, never

;)

If these people were going to read the instructions, they'd have done so already. I don't see a banner changing that at all. Honestly. Half these people can't even find the preview pane when it's right in front of them.

Though I applaud the effort to find a solution

Robert Harvey

The chat rooms all do this. Some of them have a bot that repeats the admonition when someone comes into the room.

BarryTheHatchet

A bit different for chat somehow. I think it might be because it seems more targeted.

enderland

@RobertHarvey that idea is good (I feel like I'm becoming your fan club. lol)

BarryTheHatchet

4:13 PM

Can't quite put my finger on it.

enderland

the main thing it'd require is a clear, concise thing to point to (or even to include in the banner)

Aaron Hall

I have a compromise idea: instead of shutting the site down, make questions go through a gauntlet of reviews over the course of five minutes. The first flag extends the time to release by 5 more minutes, the second, by 20 minutes - and only after release, allow people to write answers.

Robert Harvey

That idea has already been floated, several times, in numerous places.

Ixrec

all ideas have been floated many times in many places

Aaron Hall

That's because it's a good idea

Telastyn

4:15 PM

meh

enderland

@Ixrec some are like the Titanic

speaking of, they are apparently remaking it

Ixrec

@Telastyn thank you for contributing to this discussion

Aaron Hall

boo

Robert Harvey

The problem with it is that it hides those questions from the very people who have the means to close them.

Telastyn

hopefully remaking it ironically.

enderland

4:15 PM

Titanic II

Titanic II is a proposed ocean liner, to be built as a modern-day replica of the Olympic-class RMS Titanic. The new ship will have a gross tonnage (GT) of 56,000 while the original ship measured about 46,000 gross register tons (GRT). The project was announced by Australian billionaire Clive Palmer in April 2012, as the flagship of a proposed cruise company Blue Star Line Pty. Ltd. of Brisbane, Australia. The intended launch date was originally set in 2016, with the ship sailing from Southampton to New York within the same year; the launch has been delayed until 2018. == Previous projects == The...

user41796

A banner may help stem or improve some of the lower quality questions. It won't eradicate the problem, but short of STSD, nothing will solve all of the problems

Telastyn

@Ixrec - I aim to contribute.

Aaron Hall

oh, I thought you meant they were remaking the movie

Robert Harvey

Calling @ThomasOwens. ^^ Banner idea

enderland

@GlenH7 it might be helpful to have an obvious banner that is "this is off topic" to point to and help resolve some of the animousity about "why p.se so horrible"

Telastyn

4:16 PM

maybe they should put a radar on this one...

maybe we should just stop insta-closing everything...

I mean, people hate the behavior. Nothing is going to change if the behavior remains.

amon

@RobertHarvey maybe let's document this idea via a meta post first, also to figure out the precise wording.

user41796

@Telastyn Yes, that's true. Garbage stinks less if you let it sit around before throwing it out.

Aaron Hall

@RobertHarvey For a minute, you had me thinking you wanted to remake the Titanic movie.

enderland

hahah

Aaron Hall

Look, when I'm active in the chat room, it would be a lot simpler if we could just make it all about me.

2

BarryTheHatchet

4:19 PM

@AaronHall :D

Telastyn

if all we threw out was garbage, the analogy would work better.

enderland

@AaronHall no u

wait...

BarryTheHatchet

Not to sound like a broken record (whoops), but I still don't understand how SoftwareDesign.SE doesn't immediately solve a huge chunk of the problem and make complete sense.

user41796

@Telastyn I thought this conversation was scoped to new, incoming questions.

BarryTheHatchet

Is it just a "we don't want to buy a new domain name and commission a new logo" problem? I'll do you a logo.

enderland

4:20 PM

I think there are tiers of "how marginal can a question be before it's ok to leave on the main site" @GlenH7. I know I'm less... strict on this than some of you guys are

BarryTheHatchet

You can't stop too broad questions. Ever. So forget about that.

user55340

1

Q: Show a banner to new users linking them to the help center

Some time back Doc asked How can we encourage people to read the FAQ before asking their first question? which is a really good question and a fairly consistent challenge to get people to ask questions on the site they should be (we get a significant number of debugging questions for example). S...

feature-request scope new-users

user41796

@enderland We haven't upgraded your AI version yet. Don't worry, on the next upgrade it will be more clear.

Ixrec

@BarryTheHatchet It probably would. Would be great if we could make SE try it.

BarryTheHatchet

what's that word

user55340

4:23 PM

@Telastyn you are going down the big-o tutor hole.

Ixrec

@BarryTheHatchet resignation?

BarryTheHatchet

for a story/tale that is completely dataless and relates to informal observations over time

@Ixrec nah that's Workplace.SE

enderland

@BarryTheHatchet it does

BarryTheHatchet

not "empirical"

@enderland :P

Aaron Hall

They all come from well meaning naïfs on SO - just pop up a tool-tip when they type in programmers.stackexchange.com - "please only recommend programmers if you're absolutely certain it's on-topic and a good question for the site"

enderland

4:24 PM

speaking of Workplace, you guys will enjoy this question, vindicating all engineers who hate politics everywhere:

47

Q: How can I deal with troublesome Professional Engineer?

I currently manage a team of about 25 engineers and developers in a subdivision of a Canadian tech company working out of Ottawa. Things normally run smoothly, but we've had a serious problem with a senior engineer as of late. This engineer is the sole engineer on our team with his Professional ...

professionalism conflict unprofessional-behavior conflict-resolution

BarryTheHatchet

@AaronHall Oh that's a good idea

user41796

@BarryTheHatchet anecdotal?

BarryTheHatchet

@GlenH7 yeeeees thank you

user41796

@enderland - Again with the "I don't know what you're referring to..."

BarryTheHatchet

always forget that one

user41796

4:26 PM

Indeed. Definitely couldn't be me.

user55340

20% of all closed questions in the past week were debugging.

BarryTheHatchet

@enderland yeah I spat out some of the workplace kool-aid on that one already

"The company is the one in the wrong, here. Not he." Hardly. His behaviour is completely unacceptable and unprofessional. So he's unhappy about being passed up for promotion. He should leave, not do everything he can to sabotage everyone else's livelihoods. What a d!ck. — BarryTheHatchet 5 hours ago

Aaron Hall

Yeah, but you're not answering his question, you're answering another employee's.

BarryTheHatchet

I wasn't answering at all

Aaron Hall

You're right, the site was, you weren't.

Ixrec

4:30 PM

$ git stash list | wc -l
     55

I need to get better at this

Aaron Hall

nevermind

BarryTheHatchet

@Ixrec Using a better VCS would be a good start. Have you tried Subversion?

Ixrec

does SVN even have stashes?

enderland

@BarryTheHatchet just use text files with copy/paste

BarryTheHatchet

@Ixrec Sort of.

@Ixrec My SVN client can stash at the file level during commit. For longer-term multi-branch work, checking out a separate WD is the cleanest and best approach anyway.

@enderland Post paper copies of your code to yourself in a SSE

I do like the whole git pull request thing which, if I understand correctly, merges commits and peer review into a single, managed operation.

And local "caching" is nice for certain projects in certain workflows.

Beyond that, ugh.

Hey, if you really want some Workplace.SE lols, read this:

14

Q: How to behave with women in my company when it's International Women's Day?

Today I woke up and remembered that today is International Women's Day. I am not exactly the person who likes to greet and give wishes to everyone, and I am often kinda embarrassed when I have to do so "by force" (like in family reunions etc.) So today I was really undecided on what to do, wheth...

professionalism communication colleagues company-culture

(Sorry, am I "mocking" again?)

Ixrec

4:39 PM

Most people ignore that kind of thing. Especially on "international no pants day". — gnasher729 8 hours ago

user55340

@Ixrec no, but clients can fake it.

user55340

IntelliJ has a work set idea and associates files with particular changes. You can do some things to make it kind of look like a stash.

BarryTheHatchet

Wow, the Earth Day flag looks really easy to draw and diagram:

user55340

@BarryTheHatchet there are other flags I like better.

BarryTheHatchet

Also they got the colour of space wrong ;(

[sic]

user55340

4:46 PM

user55340

( James W. Cadle's "Flag of Earth" )

Ixrec

I just noticed we have an HNQ today that's actually quite good

that's a nice change

Aaron Hall

yay

linky?

user55340

flagofearth.org

user55340

1 min ago, by Ixrec

I just noticed we have an HNQ today that's actually quite good

Ixrec

4:49 PM

I created a circular chat dependency

you are all doomed

BarryTheHatchet

oh god

hang on where?

don't see you commenting on it

user55340

Y-Combinator

Apr 16 '13 at 16:42, 28 seconds total – 2 messages, 1 user, 0 stars

Bookmarked Apr 16 '13 at 16:42 by Jimmy Hoffa

Telastyn

@MichaelT - so? The reason I'm here is to help people.

user55340

@Telastyn it's more a "I expect that you will get a dozen back and forth comments as the person stives to understand big O." And comments are a less than ideal mechanism for tutoring.

Telastyn

yup, and I clarified once and then dropped it.

Aaron Hall

5:05 PM

The more I put myself in the shoes of other stakeholders, the better I understand why they do what they do.

BarryTheHatchet

5:17 PM

@AaronHall Before you criticise anyone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you'll be a mile away from them, and you'll have their shoes.

durron597

My team's secret project is launching tonight

Aaron Hall

Looks like you're asking how to have a program use a config file. I would think standard operating procedure is that program B opens the config file upon startup, some triggering mechanism, or every time it needs to know the current config, and knows how to parse it. I don't think you have a question here that's suitable for the site. It's likely to be closed and deleted. — Aaron Hall 17 secs ago

durron597

amazon.com/StyleCodeLive

variety.com/2016/digital/news/…

BarryTheHatchet

@durron597 What is it?

durron597

@BarryTheHatchet A live show about women's fashion and beauty

the interesting parts are about the interactivity components - live chat room that the hosts have access to during the show, etc.

BarryTheHatchet

5:23 PM

Good thing it's a secret.

@durron597 chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/65/durron597 ? :P

Duga

This question probably belongs on programmers.stackexchange.com — Colin Basnett 19 secs ago

durron597

@BarryTheHatchet eh?

I mean, it's not a secret anymore, the press coverage has launched, marketing is in full force now

user55340

@durron597 shopbop? (I interviewed there here - didn't have the super scale background they wanted)

BarryTheHatchet

@durron597 You just said it's a secret project!

Kit Z. Fox

TIL it's International Women's Day.

durron597

5:37 PM

@BarryTheHatchet It was until about... 10 hours ago

BarryTheHatchet

@durron597 o kcool

@KitZ.Fox Yes, International Women's Day. Global bastion for equality. Not sure whether the irony/hypocrisy is deliberate.

durron597

ask any regular in the room if i've referred to it as anything other than "durron's secret project" until now

BarryTheHatchet

@BarryTheHatchet: Has @durron597 referred to it as anything other than "durron's secret project" until now?

user41796

> My precious

BarryTheHatchet

@BarryTheHatchet No, I don't believe so.

@BarryTheHatchet Okay, thanks.

Kit Z. Fox

5:39 PM

@BarryTheHatchet You mean like how we get one day and the men get the other 365?

Keen

@KitZ.Fox Just in time.

BarryTheHatchet

@KitZ.Fox In what way do the men "get the other 365"?

And I mean any way that is actually meaningfully different today.

Kit Z. Fox

Marked v. unmarked. Pens v. Pens for women.

user41796

@KitZ.Fox good thing it was a leap year, right?

BarryTheHatchet

@KitZ.Fox what

parse failure

Kit Z. Fox

5:41 PM

It is one of the deepest roots of bigotry.

BarryTheHatchet

what is

Kit Z. Fox

By marking something, you imply that it is different from the norm. For instance, "nurse" or "male nurse".

user41796

1 min ago, by Kit Z. Fox

Marked v. unmarked. Pens v. Pens for women.

BarryTheHatchet

Right, which makes Women's Day both hypocritical and ironic, as I said.

Kit Z. Fox

And as I agreed.

BarryTheHatchet

5:42 PM

Perhaps you missed how there's also a similarly hypocritical and ironic International Man's Day

Men don't "get the other 365"

Aaron Hall

16 mins ago, by Duga

This question probably belongs on programmers.stackexchange.com — Colin Basnett 19 secs ago

Kit Z. Fox

You don't know about the pens for women though?

Aaron Hall

I think the above is correct

BarryTheHatchet

No idea what pens you're talking about

Starting to think we're saying the same thing in different ways though

Kit Z. Fox

Bic Pens for Women

►

user41796

5:43 PM

@BarryTheHatchet don't worry, that never occurs in here

Kit Z. Fox

Hilarious and depressing all in one.

@BarryTheHatchet Yes.

BarryTheHatchet

@KitZ.Fox huh weird

maybe I don't get it because we don't have the same problem with gender that you guys have

user41796

So if it's a pen for a woman, does that mean I can't use it?

Aaron Hall

I find that kind of marketing patronizing, but they wouldn't do it if it wasn't effective.

BarryTheHatchet

don't get me wrong, I won't assert that there's no pay gap. but speaking strictly socially I don't believe there's any substantial gender problem in British culture nowadays, the way there is in the States

Kit Z. Fox

5:44 PM

Patriarchy hurts everyone.

BarryTheHatchet

maybe it's because of the Queen

Aaron Hall

@ColinBasnett - No, this would quickly be closed as primarily opinion based over on Programmers. — GlenH7 11 mins ago

BarryTheHatchet

we just don't think about gender. we get on with our lives no matter what gender we are. and make the best of it. and, sure, there's some work to do in some areas where there is real honest-to-god bigotry. but it's not like in the USA where it's seemingly an obsession to talk about gender all the goddamn time

Aaron Hall

@GlenH7 do you find my answer opinionated?

Mitch

@BarryTheHatchet I like the story about the children who ask their parents "There's a mother's day and a father's day, why isn't there a children's day?"

BarryTheHatchet

5:45 PM

@Mitch :D

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch There is a children's day.

BarryTheHatchet

@Mitch now that's where "the other ~~365~~ 364 days" logic comes in ^_^

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox What? Goddamn kids get everything!

user41796

@AaronHall The presence of a reasonable answer doesn't invalidate the fact that, as phrased, the question is likely to attract primarily opinion based answers.

Keen

@BarryTheHatchet And yet, y'all still tax tampons.

Kit Z. Fox

5:48 PM

Don't get me started.

Mitch

I know! What's up with airplanes?

enderland

large refactor, and it "just works" afterwards... there be dragons somewhere!

2

user41796

@enderland you are growing wiser

enderland

in this case it does seem to work though, which is the even scarier part :o

BarryTheHatchet

@Keen It's like you only read 25% of what I said!

Mitch

5:53 PM

@KitZ.Fox It's pretty excellent for the dads.

BarryTheHatchet

@Mitch Not really, no. They have to put up with being deemed bigots and "privileged" all day long by everyone on the internet, after their 14-hour working day digging through dirt for less than minimum wage.

Just because they are men.

How do you like dem apples

They also have to put up with a hugely biased justice system when it comes to domestic problems and child custody

And try being a man falsely accused of rape. Jesus christ.

user55340

@GlenH7 there is a hn article about how we are paranoid.

BarryTheHatchet

You only have to merely slightly suggest that he did it, and his life is completely ruined for ever. Whether there is any truth to it or not. Any who dares defend him at any stage of the process - or even after the trial has ended is deemed a radical sexist.

This kind of nonsense (on both sides) is where we do still have gender issues.

But we don't go around talking to each other differently in day-to-day life due to each others' gender, is what I meant.

user15026

@BarryTheHatchet People do that to me ALL the time.

BarryTheHatchet

@AshleyNunn Where are you based?

user41796

5:59 PM

@MichaelT link? couldn't find with an easy search

user41796

@AshleyNunn That's because you're a cyborg

BarryTheHatchet

missed it

user15026

@BarryTheHatchet Canada. Ontario, more specifically

Y-Combinator

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