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00:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

12:00 AM
since when does laying out checkboxes and buttons have a code of ethics
 
@whatsisname for the serious answer to that, google "dark patterns"
 
no "code of ethics" is going to apply to an organization trying to deceive people
 
psr
@whatsisname Who does UX for your soul?
 
12:03 AM
if one is being optimistic, the point of such a code is to prevent one from being tempted into doing things which qualify as deceiving people even if you're personally convinced they aren't deceptive or immoral
or something like that
 
psr
That dark patterns site is pretty good. It notes (somewhere) that simple A/B testing can lead you to dark patterns accidently because you don't realize people are choosing A because they want B and are confused.
 
@psr isn't that the point of conversion optimization?
and all marketing ?
 
Who can guide a young coder though the valley of death?
 
VTC career advice
 
RMS can
 
12:06 AM
but what is your valley and what sort of death is in it?
 
Who has a rod and staff?
 
a crazy boss that thinks he knows something about computers
 
enderland pulls up a chair
 
go on
 
it's kinda like that
with banking information on it
$$$$
 
12:10 AM
@enderland that's just adrenaline kicking in, it's trying to tell you to RUN!!
 
just get everything in writing and do whatever the boss says and stop giving a shit
 
@JimmyHoffa hah. I was thinking driving home that I basically am going to get paid to do the types of things that I've enjoyed doing so much through P.SE for the last few years
 
that's pretty cool
is happy for enderland
 
jimmy thinks all hell will break loose before too long. I hope to let him down ;)
 
12:12 AM
This Michael O Church disappearing after proclaiming "I'm going to punch somebody so hard in 50k seconds" thing is very strange, other than the Crazy On Tap post talking about it, I can find zilch
For someone with such an enormous following, I find it very weird I can't find posts from people asking "the fuck you did goes??"
 
should I have heard of this person before today?
 
I haven't
and I'm also out of here
 
@Ixrec he's just a big software industry blogger, been around for years known for being very smart and writing blog articles that could double as books; mostly cynical industry / people / politics analysis stuff. Some very on point stuff.
He does have a very large following
 
psr
I've read a lot of his stuff. He makes some very insightful points at times, but I can't tell if he's crazy.
 
@psr jimmy?
 
psr
12:23 AM
Oh, jimmy's crazy
Feb 21 '13 at 0:58, by psr
I can imagine this not ending well:
Police: So tell us again why you killed your wife.
Programmer: You don't understand. I had to. She was impure. She had side effects. I had to put her in the monad.
Police: And is that garbage bag the "monad"?
Programmer: Well, sure, of course, obviously. Once it's *declared* a garbage bag it's always exactly a garbage bag for all time, always. It's *defined* to be. The monad is just a construction that embeds the underlying type system while adding it's own features.
 
@psr that video is pretty good. Surprisingly we never really talked about that during my masters in HCI... :\
 
user55340
@Ixrec A post of his occasionally made it to the pinned here.
 
12:53 AM
@psr No question.
@psr I wouldn't put him in the exceptionally-sane classification, but his analysis is always interesting and gives cause for thought.
 
now that I'm back
any posts of his that are particularly worth reading, assuming they're still available in some form?
 
user55340
A good way to get the highlights, search Hacker News: hn.algolia.com/…
 
user55340
2:03 AM
Hmm... Yesterday was a very deleted day for my close votes.
 
user55340
 
user55340
@RobertHarvey for your kingdom of nouns thing: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/309288/… - people just take it too far and wrong.
 
user55340
2:32 AM
> The right diagram shows the functionality of the left diagram, implemented in the Carter system. Note the remarkably reduced number of wires and switch contacts. Remember, this method is very dangerous. You might get electrocuted maintaining it, you might lose your license for building it, and you might get downvoted just talking about it.

This pattern, and other too-clever circuit solutions, often find application in low-voltage, signalling, and railroad block controls. It is not used in residential structures, which are typically required not to kill their occupants.
 
user55340
3
A: Three way light switches in a tower

A. I. BreveleriAs Wolf says, a combination of SPDT and DPDT switches. One switch on each floor, top and bottom are SPDT, all others are DPDT. The number of switches is one more than the number of lights. Here are a couple of ways to wire it: The left diagram shows the sane way. Blue is the neutral leg. The ...

 
user15026
3:38 AM
@KitZ.Fox Yoda has a face and feet and can stand on his own :P
 
user15026
Next up, ears and arms :D
 
4:18 AM
Yochet
 
user15026
grins Yeah, I suppose so :)
 
@MichaelT Are those guys getting paid by the number of characters they type?
 
user55340
@RobertHarvey Someone knew it was a bitfield, but couldn't figure out how to change it to the bitwise operators.
 
5:25 AM
Wouldn't this question feel right at home on programmers.stackexchange.com? — Hubro 31 secs ago
 
 
1 hour later…
6:47 AM
Should it be posted in the programmers.stackexchange.com ? Thanks. — Joe.wang 55 secs ago
 
7:45 AM
@MichaelT Yes. Kostas is one of the youngsters across the hall. Talented guy, lots of potential.
 
91
Q: Let's disallow nominations from people who've been suspended in the past year

Shog9Well, it's election season again. On sites all over the network, moderators are being selected from among the good folk willing to volunteer their time to help guide and support their communities. I'm proud to be part of a system that governs itself in this manner; for all of its inherent messine...

Anyone interested in running for mod? Let me know, so I can start suspending... >:)
I love how election discussions bring out the paranoid in people...
 
 
1 hour later…
9:01 AM
maybe this should be migrated to programmers.stackexchange.com? — Carsten 30 secs ago
 
9:35 AM
morning
 
lol, I was not expecting you to actually change your name to that
 
:D
well you all said "do it do it do it" so ;lp
shame it doesn't all fit on the LHS
unless I say enough
 
9:51 AM
very few usernames fit easily on the left side
c.f. MetaFig
 
metafig lol
we all like metafiggy pudding
 
 
1 hour later…
11:11 AM
@PreferenceBean I'm delicious
 
as am I!
mmm, preference beans
I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it should be on Meta. — Caspar Kleijne 15 mins ago
lolwot
 
 
2 hours later…
1:04 PM
really struggling to find replies to my comments. the @pref notification doesn't trigger my "that's me!" reflex yet
 
46
A: You are an advanced AI that controls a smart house. How do you kill your master?

ArmanXHaving implemented a few smart house options in my own home (automatic locking doors, automatic lights, various alarms, heating/cooling, remote video), I can think of quite a few possibilities. Each of these make a few assumptions, but will mention what assumptions were made. Death by Cop This ...

I am less interested in getting a smart house now.
 
user55340
1:52 PM
13
Q: Movie where automated house creates personality and falls in love with the father of a family, watches them and tries to kill them

ArturBalestroMovie I remember is about a programmer guy who created this house, completely automated who made food, turned in water for all the house, talked with a woman's voice and practically had a personality of her own. The guy was with his family in the house, if I remember well he had his wife, a son ...

 
2:33 PM
Hey all, where's the best place to debate/whinge about the current state of IT job recruitment? I dimly remember the days before home internet, when recruiters actually understood the jobs they recruited for and read CVs, and am thoroughly sick of the calls/emails/texts about completely irrelevant roles.
 
whinge ahead
 
user55340
@PhilLello Its the accessibility of the tools for them to do so. I blame linked in.
 
user55340
It used to be, during the .com boom that you had to actively steal the people from other companies. That took time. Granted, cold calling an entire company directory worked, but you had to work at it. You didn't want to waste your time calling up the tech support guy trying to find a R&D engineer.
 
user55340
But now... push a button and you've sent an email to everyone who has a java skill listed in a given zip code.
 
user55340
Yes, that happened. Employer^^ had a recruiter that sent everyone in the city who wasn't currently employed by Employer^^ an email. ... including many people who previously worked for Employer^^ and weren't going back no way no how not a snowballs chance.
 
user55340
2:46 PM
Its just too easy - too low cost and low effort to do.
 
@MichaelT until you get spam listed
 
user55340
@ratchetfreak Then they just get another recruiter. What are you going to do - blacklist all of gmail.com?
 
a job opening from a gmail (or any other free email service) does not really inspire confidence
 
Hiya
 
It's okay, I'm obviously the wrong kind of user for this site and I've asked to have my account deleted. Congratulations, you fixed the problem, you were the straw that sent my camel to the ER. Go hug yourself — PleaseDeleteKThx 22 mins ago
haha perfect rage quit
this from "Watch the language, would you?"
shame you can't see the calling me a "pedantic moron" etc too
see, even when I'm perfectly well behaved, people go batshit insane
REMEMBER THIS DAY
 
2:59 PM
I need to find a pattern for some code I am planning to add, is programmers SE good for it ?
or should I use SO instead
I am struggling to figure out which pattern I should really be using
 
Well, what are you trying to do?
 
@PhilLello this
 
Why does everyone think there's an existing design pattern that will fit any problem?
 
@RobertHarvey because I don't want to write 100s of lines doing duplicate thing then find a pattern :S
@Duga didn't asked this question yet though
 
3:14 PM
ignore duga
he's a bot trawling the SO comments for certain keywords
 
oh okay, thanks for letting me know
 
Happy Coffee Day
 
@Mathematics Thanks for that. It explains a few things, like why people have stopped asking how and started asking "which pattern?" But you might still be laboring under the assumption that you can just slap a software pattern on something and be done. It doesn't work that way. Patterns are more like blueprints; you still have to build the house, choose the hammer, etc.
 
@RobertHarvey I agree, , maybe I am not looking for a pattern but a solution
 
@Mathematics patterns are not solutions
you must always remember that
 
3:17 PM
Agree
 
It's a developers entire job to come up with solutions. Patterns just give some tools you may use in your solutions if they help you make your solution work better (they often don't and aren't worth using in making your solutions).
 
is this any better :) ?
 
If the problem is: You have nothing to set your TV on, then patterns are hammers, nails, and boards. You can put a bunch of them on the ground and set the TV on that, but that's the shittiest TV stand ever.
2
 
> everyone
they don't
 
Are all of the parents and childs the same objects? Because if they are, you can just use a table with a self-referential key.
 
3:21 PM
reminds me of "All You Zombies..."
 
> you were the straw that sent my camel to the ER
I need to use this line
 
@RobertHarvey nope, they are all different, like an employee then there addressHistory, positionHistory, etc..
 
@Ixrec \o/
 
worded any better now ?
 
3:37 PM
are you asking how to format the JSON blob you pass to the server?
 
@Ixrec me ? if yes then nope, I know how to pass anything to server, it's just the code I'll be add using Linq
 
oh the Linq code
doesn't do C#
 
3:52 PM
Isn' C# just what happened after MS got in trouble for trying to polute Java? cnet.com/news/sun-brings-antitrust-suit-against-microsoft-1 for any young 'uns out there
 
Day 5: participating in large-scale architecture discussion for the next several months. Jumped in the deep end!
 
> Day 6: I can't breath! The devs keep pushing me back underwater whenever I get to the top! Send help!
 
I'm more of a dev with a QA focus - our mini-team is basically going to be creating and implementing an entire test framework
 
4:11 PM
@enderland That can be great – at work, I've considerably improved the quality of tests by wrapping whatever they were using before with a custom layer. Or, you might end up with something almost, but not quite, entirely unlike a test framework, which explains the framework they were using before.
Incidentally, xUnit style tests are horrible.
 
I have great news!
Well. Great news for me, in my own little world.
 
you saved 15% on car insurance by switching to Gieko?
 
@enderland sure you are.. just wait 'til your test says a dev made a mistake. The dev team is going to delete all your code and decry you as making things up. They'll plant perl on your machine and shout loudly that you're just some regexp scripty idjit and you're getting in the way of production. Then they'll take you to the roof, devour your soul and throw your barren husk over the ledge like so much potatos.
 
Aside from fresh hot cocoa mix and a snow day, Favorite Dev was assigned as scrum master.
@JimmyHoffa I wondered what sort of stuff you did all day. ;-)
 
4:16 PM
 
I love you guys so much.
I'm sure that would be true even if I hadn't taken cold medicine today.
So I ignored all the stuff where the project lead suggested ways I could do my job and focused on the "favorite dev is going to be scrum master" and "we want you to take a more active leadership role".
Because that makes everything easier.
Me and favorite dev are the original Fireteam Duo. We kick ass together. We gonna get shit done!
does happy dance
gracelessly
blames cold medicine for lack of coordination
 
user41796
4 mins ago, by enderland
user image
 
user41796
@PreferenceBean - unlikely
 
This is why I always say, before making serious moves towards leaving - decide to leave; such that nothing in current circumstances will change your decision. It should be boolean, go or no, and not changeable after the decision is made. Just makes it so much easier and less stressful, removes second guessing altogether. Make a decision and have faith in yourself that you made the right one, then execute on that.
2
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa You must've hit the bottle early today as that was pretty damn astute. Props and well said.
 
4:29 PM
That is some sound advice right there.
 
@GlenH7 hope so
 
@JimmyHoffa it's what I said/did!
 
@enderland I can't hear you with all that water in your lungs, are you ok down there? Hello? @enderland?
 
@Ixrec People still read the Daily WTF?
 
@GlenH7 I did ^_^
 
4:35 PM
when the mood strikes me, usually once every several months
 
All the stories are the same: "The previous guy was an ass|idiot|the boss' son"
 
or when one of you reminds me of it
 
@GlenH7 gotcha
 
@Ixrec It used to be my go-to lunchtime read... until the pattern became way too obvious.
 
I just reviewed why Sauron is the good guy in LotR.
I like it better than Daily WTF.
 
4:37 PM
@KitZ.Fox did you see El Reg is doing a Daily WTF column now?
 
The Last Ringbearer (Russian: Последний кольценосец) is a 1999 fantasy book by Russian author Kirill Eskov. It is an alternative account of, and an informal sequel to, the events of J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings. == Plot == The novel is based on the premise that the Tolkien account is a "history written by the victors". In Eskov's version of the story, Mordor is described as a peaceful country on the verge of an industrial revolution, that is a threat to the war-mongering and imperialistic faction represented by Gandalf (whose attitude has been described by Saruman as "crafting the Final...
you mean this?
 
user41796
@PreferenceBean It's awesome
 
@Ixrec Sounds pretty similar though.
 
4:41 PM
^^ You are right you can't predict the future, which is why I suggest making a decision that you won't change based on it.
 
user41796
@PreferenceBean Sorry, I'm multi-tasking. Is there a comment you need me to delete or just referencing El Reg's daily WTF?
 
^^ look who was giving us shit about all our deleted stuff, now you see why it happens heh
 
@JimmyHoffa you've certainly brought me into the fold on that one
though I maintain it's annoying when the removed messages are written by people that are not me
 
(removed) is a Safe Space
 
then lead by example, don't unnecessarily remove chat messages
 
4:48 PM
we could always RO you permanently
 
being permanently read-only sounds like a drag
 
@PreferenceBean as far as those decisions go, it's as I said: Make decisions and accept them- have faith in yourself they were right despite what may come. The reason being a conscious choice not to spend your life second-guessing or regretting what could have been; after all: What could have been is utterly unpredictable as you pointed out. Both choices could be bad and one worse, both could be good and one better, perhaps they're moot, perhaps... who knows. Fortune, misfortune...
 
@JimmyHoffa I agree with the principle
and I agree that most people - myself included - could abide by it more in practice
still not completely sold in this particular instance
 
then you did make a decision. :)
 
seems so
just an implementation detail required adjusting....
 
4:51 PM
haha, oh boy some day I should actually formally study algorithms and datga structures..
 
equivocate, equivocate
@JimmyHoffa looking forward to reading this 696 page book that I haven't started yet
it looks pretty good
dammit, not 180 pages. 180 Q&As.
 
@maple_shaft sir i don't know lot about network , i can play multiplayer games (counter strike , quake) .. is that means my ISP allows port forwarding .
@maple_shaft will go for amazon aws ... if nothing works :)
 
user41796
@PreferenceBean - I think I got all of the relevant ones
 
I think I will read that agile book today.
 
@GlenH7 appreciate it. sorry to be a pain
 
user41796
5:04 PM
No worries. One of the perks of the naming showing up in blue.
 
@GlenH7 oh I have a userscript for that
:P
 
user41796
@PreferenceBean So I can delete everything? That would be awesome. Then I could blame it on learning Haskell.
 
@GlenH7 well I meant a userscript for making my name show up in blue but sure
 
user41796
"It's not the clothes that make the man ..."
 
It's the man that makes the clothes.
 
5:07 PM
hehz
Please have something new to add if you want to post an answer, video-linking is not enough. — Hohmannfan 1 min ago
what am I missing? this guy didn't read my answer, right?
 
I'm slowly realizing the amount of responsibility that I am going to have in this job... @JimmyHoffa I'm not going to quit!! :P
 
there's no endinsight^H^H^H^H^H^Herland
ok that was weak
 
lol
 
5:48 PM
Happy Coffee Friday!
 
I was just about to say Happy Coffee Day
hand got halfway to the keyboard when you pipped me to the po(s)t
did Snowman inspire you, too?
 
@PreferenceBean the last chat in this room was 34 minutes before mine :D
 
yes freaky
 
@PreferenceBean s/ /, /
 
no i'm calling him freaky
(yes)
 
5:50 PM
@PreferenceBean s/no/yes/
 
s/no/yes/g
now yesw what
 
@PreferenceBean obviously, but you were agreeing with freaky.
 
@JimmyHoffa correct
 
thus, comma.
 
bah fine
you've out-grammared me
 
5:52 PM
woot! And I don't even know what a Comma, Splice, is!
victory lap
 
stab
do you know what a colon splice is? because you're about to find out
 
@PreferenceBean No: what is: it?
 
now hold still
 
1 min ago, by Jimmy Hoffa
victory lap
 
for your anaesthetic.... coffee or scotch flavour?
oops too late
oh well here goes
@JimmyHoffa what a week
ok surgery over he's coming to
> Thank you for your email. I definitely understand your concerns and would like to help.
dammit
 
6:12 PM
Sounds like a good question for Programmers.SE, FWIW. — PreferenceBean just now
 
3..2..1...
.... dang.
 
user114359
 
6:30 PM
When did I do that?
 
user114359
22 mins ago, by Duga
Sounds like a good question for Programmers.SE, FWIW. — PreferenceBean just now
 
user114359
It's no big deal in this case, the question would work on either site. But we do get a lot of crap recommendations which is why Duga is here.
 
user114359
CV-please before this gets out of hand:
 
user114359
-2
Q: How to enable 'for-each' loop in my own linked list class?

xplorerajPlease guide me on code additions that will allow someone to iterate over a custom linked list implementation using "for-each" loop, just like existing collection classes or arrays. All I know is that a for-each loop works on java.util.Iterator based data structures.

 
Somebody describe something worth knowing about P.SE users or Q's? I need to construct some data analysis of it
 
6:45 PM
@JimmyHoffa They're all off-topic.
@JimmyHoffa Over 95% have been commented on by gnat with "recommended reading" links.
@JimmyHoffa 35% of P.SE users no longer contribute to SO at all.
@JimmyHoffa All P.SE users who have posted at least one question have also had at least one question or answer downvoted, closed and deleted.
etc.
#psefacts
 
psr
@JimmyHoffa I'm a dev and I would never throw potatos over a ledge.
 
user15026
@psr Potatoes generally don't smash well, so there's not much fun in that :P
 
> your barren husk
yikes
 
7:04 PM
enderland is alllliiiiiiveeee!
 
you can't prove that
 
user114359
> Now WITH 90's Nostalgia!
 
user114359
Where did that come from? I haven't seen any of that in here lately.
 
Jan 26 at 14:41, by maple_shaft
room topic changed to The Whiteboard: General Discussion for http://programmers.stackexchange.com Pants optional when telecommuting. Now WITH 90's Nostalgia! [coffee-day] [horror-stories] [my-code-is-compiling] [prod-deploy-at-4pm-fri] [scotch] [spoiler-free] [the-other-monitor]
 
user114359
@JimmyHoffa I still don't see any 90s nostalgia. No Beavis and Butt-head, nothing about Seinfeld, etc.
 
7:11 PM
@Snowman there was a bloke born in 1999 here yesterday
 
SO YOUNG
 
user114359
@PreferenceBean I have a son almost that old
 
@Snowman I don't
I have enough trouble looking after myself. No interest in rugrats at all.
Yet, I don't want to die never having raised any.
So, yikes.
Stealing suns from another universe to keep yours going sounds like a fun conflict driver... — NotMe 2 days ago
nice idea for a game
I had half an idea for gamifying my 3D space sim engine, and it was similar
finishing it with this story is what I'd do if I had enough money to survive without drawing a salary
 
7:36 PM
there are going to be kids graduating college today that are younger than the pentium
 
:o
 
-1
Q: How come the JDBC is not included in the JavaAPI/JDK?

camel-manIs there a specific reason we all still have to download the jdbc driver and add it to our classpath instead of Java already incorporating a library full of the drivers..?? Can we somehow request that this get done!

This is new (on ProgSE, on SO it happens a million times a day).
 
@whatsisname who graduates college in February?
 
today as in the present period of time, not specifically this friday
 
@whatsisname I see
so like... this century?
because that's certainly true
(I'll stop now)
 
7:48 PM
To add to what @MarcB said, you will get a much better answer over at server fault, where there are people who are far more experienced creating and running solutions that you are looking for. SO is aimed at programmers for programming issues. As a result of that, this question will very likely be closed as off topic. — Michael B 26 secs ago
 
no fidelity I won't keep my 401k with you instead of consolidating everything with vanguard, thank you for calling to help me with the rollover though
 
OK, is it just me or does this job spec sound like BS:
ESSENTIAL SKILLS:

Strong C++ Software Developer
Exp in Developing code for Linux Environment
Node JS
Microsoft Development Exp
 
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