The Whiteboard

enderland

12:32 AM

@Telastyn 7 battles in with Colorado, 60k average damage, 0 kills. pffft

Telastyn

pff

enderland

12:45 AM

@Telastyn 8 now. I am awful at this ship :(

Robert Harvey

1:23 AM

Been playing around with Entity Framework 6 a bit, and I am appalled at the warmup time. The first Linq query, no matter how simple it is, takes nearly 3 seconds to execute.

The next one takes 73 milliseconds.

user55340

I'm curious about that recent *poof* - was that a known issue? self delete? or something that diamonds don't talk about?

Telastyn

Still suffering in the New Mexico.

enderland

1:53 AM

@Telastyn whaaat? I LOVE the NM, was averaging 70k damage and like 2 kills a game for my last 15 games or so

Telastyn

well, stock it is not doing well.

enderland

@Telastyn this is true. Same with Colorado :\ though idk, the next two hulls don't help much. :(

Telastyn

:/

at least I have my cleveland now.

enderland

:)

I find them to be easy kills

especailly in NM, colorado aim is horrible (it feels way worse, at least)

Robert Harvey

@MichaelT What *poof* would you be referring to?

Telastyn

2:07 AM

yeah, they die easy to bbs, but slaughter most everything else.

Robert Harvey

2:20 AM

Yikes.

enderland

@Telastyn I am hating the lolrado so far :(

user55340

@RobertHarvey That would be the user that posted half a dozen poor answers, and then was deleted.

enderland

57k damage, 0.25 kills per game so far :\

Robert Harvey

@MichaelT Just another day at the (moderator) office.

user55340

@RobertHarvey programmers.stackexchange.com/a/299427 programmers.stackexchange.com/a/299423 programmers.stackexchange.com/a/299408 programmers.stackexchange.com/a/299420 programmers.stackexchange.com/a/299418

Robert Harvey

2:26 AM

Seems a bit severe, but yeah. Destroying an account makes all of their contributions (below a certain score threshold) go poof.

user55340

I kept cringing each time a new question was bounced. "Am I going to get hit with serial voting reversal?" (another one - programmers.stackexchange.com/a/299424/40980 - look at revision history)

user55340

And there are two ways to destroy the account - mod action and user self delete.

Duga

8:22 AM

I recommend you split this question into is parts. Programming/Debugging questions are for SO and should be as narrow as possible to represent the problem. Design/Architecture questions should be directed to Programmers but be careful to read their help center first. — Zak 18 secs ago

Duga

10:33 AM

I added the linux tag. Linux apps ages a lot better =) You can also try your luck in other SE sites like Code Review, Programmers and Super User — jean 16 secs ago

Duga

10:46 AM

Not positive but this might be a better fit for the Programmers SE — Tom Hart 31 secs ago

Thomas Owens

12:18 PM

Anyone know the sites that are all about git usage models?

Jimmy Hoffa

12:41 PM

Happy Coffee Day

@ThomasOwens I know of them but don't recall any of them

Thomas Owens

@JimmyHoffa We're about to migrate to Git and I'd like to send them around. I think I have them bookmarked at home, but not at work.

I guess I'll email them from home to work this weekend.

Jimmy Hoffa

1:10 PM

@rwong the potato paradox is just a misnomer of wording. If you tell someone you're going to dehydrate 1% of something they know what that means, if you tell someone you've made them a drink with 1% kiwi juice, and they say remake it with half as much other stuff and they'll understand they just doubled the concentration of kiwi juice, you tell someone you are going to reduce something to 1% less of the whole and you're just being unclear in communication.

amon

@ThomasOwens nvie.com/posts/a-successful-git-branching-model is one of the more well-known, but thoroughly over-engineered models.

Jimmy Hoffa

The simplest presumption from anyone who hears the potato paradox is that you're going to take away 1% of the whole, but you're taking away almost half of the whole and disguising that fact in strange wording. The clearer wording would be to say: I'm going to reduce the water weight to half it's current concentration.

It doesn't and shouldn't come up in software maths because ideally we're better at math and communication than to misunderstand and miscommunicate basic ratios

enderland

@ThomasOwens onlywei.github.io/explain-git-with-d3

Jimmy Hoffa

I'd hardly call it a paradox. The monty hall problem is a paradox because it's dependent on the strange interplay of discrete events and probability in a way that is not only non-obvious, but terribly complex to even prove. The potato "paradox" is just confusing because it starts by referring to subtraction of a numerator (99/100 - 1/100) , but with slippery wording changes it to division ((99/100) / 2)

Thomas Owens

@amon Wasn't there somehting like that, but with a bunch of different branching models and pros/cons of each?

Oh. I found vance.com/steve/perforce/Branching_Strategies.html

But that's perforce. Is it generally applicable to git?

I've used git, but only alone or with 2-3 other people. Not a whole team on large scale products. So I'm looking for information about organizing repositories, branches, tags, and everything else git.

Jimmy Hoffa

1:30 PM

@ThomasOwens I know exactly what you're referring to regarding models... let's see how google-fu works for me...

Thomas Owens

@JimmyHoffa It's failing me.

At least for git-specific stuff. So maybe it was the perforce one I was thinking of?

Jimmy Hoffa

Don't know. Google is just finding me endless reams of git workflow visualization blogs which is only making me more confused in thinking I remember seeing a canonical one..

Thomas Owens

@JimmyHoffa That's what I was seeing, too.

Do you think the Perforce one I linked to is relevant to Git?

Jimmy Hoffa

@ThomasOwens plausibly, but I don't know why you'd bother when you consider the amount of material out there on git workflows

Thomas Owens

@JimmyHoffa True. I did think there was a nice, almost-canonical list of different git workflows out there.

amon

1:36 PM

@ThomasOwens Having skimmed that article, it's really good, but also really old ('98!). Re-read it to be reminded what problems a branching model should solve, but most of its wisdom has already been folded into the popular Git-Flow approach. I wouldn't give it to other people to learn about Git branching.

Jimmy Hoffa

I swear I saw a canonical article on that stuff at some point with simple graphical displays for the various competing strategies - but barring the abuility to find a "canonical" article, if I were you I'd just settle for one or two of the countless decent articles out there on git flow

Thomas Owens

Eh, OK. I'll glance through the massive list of articles then. Thanks.

Jimmy Hoffa

documentup.com/skwp/git-workflows-book <-- looks like a good (large) walk-through that might be worth using as an in-depth reference for people really struggling. Probably not the brief you'll want to lead with in getting people quickstarted.

worth reading for the folks who may wish to have a more comprehensive understanding of it (such as you, and eh.. the one other person you can find who gives a shit)

user55340

@ThomasOwens as a Vance-ist, the thing is to understand the reasoning for different branches. Those reasons can be applied to any VCS.

user55340

Once you read the Vance article, re read the git-flow post and consider if that is just an application of Vance to git.

Thomas Owens

1:43 PM

Good point.

I think I have plenty of reading for now.

user55340

Read it as a theory piece. If you understand the theory you can apply it in multiple situations and know in advance what problems may occur when things get bent.

Thomas Owens

Anything about process or methodology or workflow should be treated as a theory piece.

user55340

Another good one: bradapp.com/acme/branching

Duga

@cimmanon A perfect reason to reopen the question so a more updated answer can be posted. The purpose of this site is for programmers to ask questions and find answers. Stop flogging the rules and meta discussions. It's a simple and clear question now, people want an answer to it, open it up already. — Chris Moschini 51 secs ago

user55340

Though I will point out it explores many different and conflicting approaches - they may work independently but you can't mix some.

user55340

1:51 PM

> The branching style that you decide is best suited for your environment will dictate a complementary set of patterns and pattern variants:

user55340

Git flow is a consistent set of operations from the Vance model of VCS. There are other models that work.

user55340

assets.amuniversal.com/180a803042c3013308f6005056a9545d

user55340

Yea, mobile. No web link. Doesn't end in jpg. Sorry.

user41796

2:09 PM

user41796

@MichaelT yw

user55340

KIDS REACT TO ROTARY PHONES

►

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT I'm surprised you of all people didn't just put .jpg on the end :P

user41796

@JimmyHoffa wasn't a .jpg. Look at the two URLs

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT I recall a fun one a while back where they put kids in front of an old computer. They all just turned the monitor on and wondered why the computer didn't go on

@GlenH7 you can put .jpg on the end of his URL though.

user55340

2:12 PM

Matter of "mobile chat is the suxorz"

user41796

Thanks for running the test I was about to do. :-)

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT figured

enderland

Heh I am looking at a file with a changelog dating back to... barely a year after I was born

user41796

@enderland Kind of humbling, isn't it?

enderland

@GlenH7 no kidding

user41796

2:21 PM

At my first gig, I ran into files like that. Especially stuff that we had pulled in from other departments to form the base of the current project.

user55340

... Kids. If @RobertHarvey was to claim this, I'd be wondering about the tedium of the hole punch and cards.

durron597

2:50 PM

having a problem with an autodownloader script

i'm using wget

it's resulting in ==> PASV ... couldn’t connect to x.x.x.x port 45461: No route to host in verbose mode

when I run it with -nv it doesn't display that error, it displays nothing

is there a way to make wget only print something on error messages including that one, but nothing on success?

user41796

+1 for good question

Duga

well ok lets close it here and i can re-post it on programmers.stackexchange.com — B M 6 secs ago

durron597

@GlenH7 Okay you can upvote me now

Duga

3:24 PM

Your question would fit better on programmers.stackexchange.com - SO is for actual code related problems. — easwee 9 secs ago

Jimmy Hoffa

...I've got .net up in emacs

Robert Harvey

@MichaelT Imagine punching one card per line of code. If you make a mistake, you start over with a new card, because the machine punches each hole as you type it. Your card deck is 2 inches thick. You put it in the card reader, push a button, and get a fanfold printout 1/2 inch thick listing all your errors. As you're tearing it off the printer, you accidentally knock the deck of cards onto the floor.

Jimmy Hoffa

this is a horrible thing. It taunts me, but it's likely to send me directly off the reservation into territories that will have my colleagues thinking I fell on my head.

Thomas Owens

@RobertHarvey Aren't you supposed to number your cards?

Robert Harvey

I don't remember anyone ever doing that. If you have to insert a new card in the middle, it breaks your numbering. I suppose you can use 56A.

user41796

3:29 PM

@ThomasOwens I heard of numbering the cards as well as running a magic marker at an angle on one of the sides of the card deck.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 the magic marker trick is what I've always seen

user41796

The magic marker trick was more to get it closer to where it should have been and then do the painstaking sorting from there

user55340

3:41 PM

See, you used the comment columns to hold line number. Then you had a program to sort cards based on number in 72..80

user55340

Striping the deck made it so that didn't run too long.

user55340

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT yes, but what is projf ??

ratchet freak

project f***?

Jimmy Hoffa

3:47 PM

@ratchetfreak three star programming with punch cards? Mind. Blown.

user55340

Note the identification columns.

Jimmy Hoffa

> FORTRAN STATEMENT: I'm tired of hearing all of your complaints. I think you're a bunch of jerks, and somebody should get rid of the lot of you. 1977 called and it wants you to go to hell. END

Robert Harvey

Oh, snore. What's with all these trivial questions people are asking?

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey I don't know, perhaps we've begun stealing SO visitors?

user55340

3:53 PM

Guess: someone complained about it on mso being off topic there. It was noted history is on topic here. So they all started posting the ideas that popped into their minds.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT in other words, SO visitors are trying to burn us down. Unfortunate for them, P.SE is fire proof. They'd have better luck lighting granite; suckers.

user41796

2 HNQs, 500+ rep later... :-D

Thomas Owens

@JimmyHoffa MIT bought the ire proof rage warehouse.

I hope they leave the sign up.

durron597

Can anyone recommend an SVN client for moving whole folders and projects around, just basically restructuring the repo

I would like to do it with a GUI

windows

Thomas Owens

Tortoise?

Eclipse?

Those are the only SVN GUIs I've ever used.

durron597

4:03 PM

I've always found tortoise hard to use

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 it's the only one I've worked with so far, it seems pretty straight forward, but then it seems to treat all renames/moves as deletions and additions which loses history and stinks... perhaps I'm doing it wrong; meh.

durron597

@JimmyHoffa I'm going to try SmartSVN, we'll see how that coes

goes

Jimmy Hoffa

Maybe it's tortoise but I find it both easy to work with, and very primitive. It doesn't feel any different than when I worked with old CVS

@durron597 I have Visual SVN - but so far all that seems to do is indicate in visual studio whether a file is checked out or not and gives me absolutely no facilities for working directly on a repo. So not worth the money unless I'm using it wrong. Meh.

psr

@JimmyHoffa The monty hall problem is tricky because Monty's behavior is non-random, but that isn't terribly clear in the wording. He doesn't always have an equal chance of eliminating any particular door.

Jimmy Hoffa

this would all matter a lot more if I weren't the only developer working on the code I work on

gerrit

4:09 PM

Do people downvote when they really want to vote to close? My question here is receiving multiple downvotes, but no feedback on what's wrong with it apart from debatable close votes: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/299485/…

Thomas Owens

@gerrit What do you mena?

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr I understand all that, but I was just saying it makes sense to call it a "paradox" because the behaviour is utterly non-obvious and paradoxical. Unlike the potato paradox. The "potato paradox" is just some idiot who doesn't know the phrase "half as much by volume" and instead uses unclear wording to say it.

durron597

@psr Right, if you have a bad door then he will always eliminate one particular door

psr

I think conditional probability is a little confusing and non-obvious, but it's mostly the wording that obscures the key point about Monty's behavior.

Jimmy Hoffa

@gerrit yes and both. If people vote to close, they'll often downvote too. Sometimes when people can't vote to close they'll down vote, and sometimes people will do just one because they don't feel comfortable doing the other. People do all sorts of things but those are all acceptable approaches depending on whether the Q should be closed or down voted or not.

gerrit

4:11 PM

@ThomasOwens I mean that my question is getting both close votes (duplicate) and downvotes. The close votes are explained (even though I disagree with the explanation), but the downvotes aren't. I wonder if people with enough reputation to downvote, but insufficient reputation to close-vote, use down-votes on my question because they're unable to close-vote.

Three downvotes, zero comments explaining why or providing any sort of feedback.

Jimmy Hoffa

@psr really? I think the wording is fine but it's the "conditional probability"; I mean, most people even when it's explained to them still have no understanding of why it works the way it does. I can't think of good wording for the monty hall problem that makes it obvious

Thomas Owens

@gerrit I agree with the down votes. One of the reasons is "this question is not useful".

Usefulness is not a reason to close the question, but it is a reason to downvote.

Jimmy Hoffa

@gerrit sure they do. It's encouraged to use the tools your particular privilege level allow. Down voting also pushes the question down the main page so it's not as prominent which helps to get it out of the eyes of visitors when people think it's not something we want to be putting on display

gerrit

@ThomasOwens The question it's supposedly a duplicate of is at score +18.

Thomas Owens

@gerrit So? Maybe the question is not useful because it is a duplicate.

I haven't voted. I'm just guessing at what people may be thinking.

gerrit

4:14 PM

Ok.

Thomas Owens

Voters here are quite harsh. Perhaps a little harsh to people who don't regularly use Programmers. But it is very good for maintaining a homepage that is of decent quality.

user55340

Or that you haven't sufficiently explored the implication of a non single character unary operator.

user55340

(You seem to only consider the binary operator)

Jimmy Hoffa

@gerrit Sorry but really - asking for the motivation for a syntactic thing is just not something we can comment on. It's not a programming problem (programming history really) and it's a question that can best be answered by whoever made the decision at whatever time it was made. I voted to close your Q but I also voted to close the "duplicate" it was linked to because for all it's views and votes - it's just not helping anyone anywhere. @MichaelT you wrote a neat interesting fun answer

But this is why I support holding old stuff to the standards of new stuff. Your answer belongs on wikipedia informing of interesting history, but provides zero relevant use to the practicing programmer who wants to solve a problem or get his job done well.

gerrit

I can see that Programmers wants to maintain a homepage of decent quality. I appreciate the comments you are giving me in chat, they are helpful. They would fit well as comments on the question.

user55340

4:18 PM

While my fun answer was fun and did dig up a bit of information- it's wrong.

Thomas Owens

@MichaelT :O

enderland

@gerrit yeah, this site has a loooot of energy in maintaining a higher quality questions on the homepage

user55340

Another user contacted Ken and asked and got one that conflated with my conclusions.

user55340

40

A: Why does C use the asterisk for pointers?

I was asked by a student if & and * were chosen because they were next to each other on the keyboard (something I had never noticed before). Much googling led me to B and BCPL documentation, and this thread. However, I couldn't find much at all. It seemed like there were lots of reasons for * in ...

user55340

>
From: Ken Thompson < ken@google.com >

near on the keyboard: no.
c copied from b so & and * are same there.
b got * from earlier languages - some assembly,
bcpl and i think pl/1.
i think that i used & because the name (ampersand)
sounds like "address." b was designed to be run with
a teletype model 33 teletype. (5 bit baud-o code)
so the use of symbols was restricted.

Jimmy Hoffa

4:20 PM

@gerrit Sorry, we do a lot of maintenance activities and detailing/justifying every one would just reduce the amount of maintenance we do... We fought hard to get informative close reasons though, and to indicate in our help documentation what we do and don't like to see. We just hope this stuff will give you the help you want; though it may not be as immediate as you'd like. In the future you're always welcome to ask about stuff in here to see if it fits for the site first.

user55340

That's really the only way to know.

Thomas Owens

& sounds like address? I always thought that, but I figured people would think I was weird.

gerrit

@JimmyHoffa Ok. Well, now I got the feedback in chat that I didn't get in the comments.

user55340

If you are, so are the designers of C.

Jimmy Hoffa

@gerrit have a look at the close reason banner over your Q:

> put on hold as primarily opinion-based by Robert Harvey, GlenH7, amon, durron597, Jimmy Hoffa 2 mins ago
>
> Many good questions generate some degree of opinion based on expert experience, but answers to this question will tend to be almost entirely based on opinions, rather than facts, references, or specific expertise.
> If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.

enderland

4:22 PM

@gerrit also something I will say, very, VERY few people who post here are actually interested in getting meaningful/real feedback - most people post a question and never come back

user55340

There are odd bits perl like "I like the shape of the word ’local’"

gerrit

@JimmyHoffa Right, I see that now. When I started the question on chat here It had 4 close votes and I thought they were all duplicate close votes.

user55340

Or making decisions so you could better write poetry in perl v1.0

gerrit

I find it difficult to get the "good subjective, bad subjective" right, and (like many before me) saw a similar but (IMO) different question that was highly upvoted, and therefore thought mine would not make a bad question.

user55340

(use strict to undo those decisions)

gerrit

4:23 PM

But I see from a recent meta post that this is not a new problem here either.

Jimmy Hoffa

@gerrit Yeah, some people think fuzzy dupe votes are best because a "dupe closure" is not as bad as other close reasons; I disagree. IMO dupe votes should be due to a 100% match of the meaning of both questions.

user55340

It's a fine and fuzzy line in places.

user55340

I will also point out that writing skill up front is important.

Jimmy Hoffa

@gerrit not at all... just do your best and unfortunately you saw a broken window and thought it was indicating something acceptable. I'll try and get that window patched so it doesn't mislead others as it did you (probably unsuccesfully; it's rather popular)

enderland

@JimmyHoffa this is ironic considering recent attempts to close other broken windows

gerrit

4:27 PM

Ok, thank you for addressing my questions in chat and I apologise for polluting your new questions page for a short while ;-)

enderland

@gerrit I've found that it is very difficult to see good/bad subjective and on sites that more rigorously enforce it it's a huge mess

I'm not really familiar with scope of Academia (trying my best to never deal with academia ever again in my life :P) but it's definitely something hard here and on Workplace (where nearly everything we get is subjective)

gerrit

My question is even on top of the Programmers hot questions list, despite being closed and at score -3 :-/
http://programmers.stackexchange.com/?tab=hot

user55340

Even with our familiarity with it, you should see some of the messes we've made on workplace and skeptics.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT yeah, but the WP deserves it. :)

gerrit

If Programmers is full of popular broken windows, how do I find good examples of great questions where the community consensus is that they really are good questions?

user55340

4:29 PM

Of course they do. Btw, skeptics got their site css update.

user55340

@gerrit history is history. Don't try to emulate it. Write a question well. Explore the space as best you can. Show that you did this in the question. Then describe the remaining problem.

Jimmy Hoffa

@gerrit we do a lot of maintenance, closing and destroying stuff. One of the keys is something you can't know if you aren't familiar with it here- this site was created originally as "Not Programming Related" to be SO's junk bin. Pretty quickly the site turned into yahoo answers and anybody with anything meaningful to say just fled the site. So the scope was changed to be only programming related and completely restructured. So if you see older stuff with lots of votes, beware

One of the indicators to know if something is acceptable is highly voted and recent

gerrit

Ok

user55340

"What should I name my cat?"
"Do you fart in your cube?"

user55340

(Two questions from old days)

enderland

4:33 PM

0

Q: How can I attend to my applications performance problems sooner?

I'm a mid-skilled Java developer (5 years/not a rock star). Often I find performance problems difficult to deal with in the 'heat of battle', and often something that I end up doing late: Friday afternoon, 630pm after my PMs and BAs have gone home, over several iterations or when the proverbial r...

performance

this guy should be in chat, not on main

Jimmy Hoffa

Incidentally: Catsius Catalano, and only when someone I don't like is in it.

user55340

enderland

Agree. Sorry it's a poor question. Vote to burninate. Sorry — Philip Crow 14 secs ago

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT efficacious? Jimmy Hoffa. We need to bloody organize; and I do mean bloody.

Also, what a horrible misuse of the word efficacious.

enderland

4:48 PM

@GlenH7 robert answered that question :P

user41796

rep farmer...

user41796

not upvoted yet, so can still self-delete

user41796

5:10 PM

Delete votes needed: discuss this quote

user15026

@MichaelT I say this every time I see a copy of this post, but I always just want to knit Sphinx cats little sweaters.

user41796

Is it passive aggressive of me to only fix the linter problems in the section of code I was working on? For context, this is a ~3700 line javascript file with about a dozen angular controllers in it. Since I was only working on one controller, that's the one I'm making sure comes out clean through the linter.

user114359

@GlenH7 POB. How much time do you have? What is the scope of your work? Etc. If I have the time and the changes are low-risk, I might go ahead and clean up other code. If I am pressed for time or the code is high-risk I might just skip it.

user41796

Whee. Another rep cap.

user41796

@Snowman no time, and this particular project is behind by several weeks

user41796

5:21 PM

And I have no real means of validating the other controllers in order to make sure I didn't screw them up.

user41796

But that little voice inside my head says I'm copping out

user114359

@GlenH7 given a lack of time, no unit tests, etc. I don't think it is a cop-out.

user41796

it does seem like I'd be putting my head on a chopping block if I started making changes in those other areas

user114359

@GlenH7 ...and something broke

user114359

Best thing to do in that case is document the lint results and bring it up with the team. Maybe create a task to track the fixes and adding automated unit tests.

user41796

5:31 PM

I like that approach

user41796

Irony is that "we all" talked about using a linter as part of our standard development practice. Guess who is the only one who did so?

user114359

I think there is value in making the linter shut up. I side with the mentality of "compiler warnings are errors" and "fix all static analysis warnings"

user114359

Code is kind of like underwear. Programmers are that deep in the code, it may as well be clean.

user41796

I'd agree. The cleaner the code, the easier it is to work with

user41796

I just ran the "Calculate Code Metrics" tool against one of our solutions. Lo-and-behold, some of the nastiest projects have low maintainability indexes, high cyclomatic couplig, and high class coupling

user41796

5:43 PM

Bummer the VS2013 version of the tool doesn't attempt to analyze .js files

user114359

That reminds me, I need to install VS2015

user114359

5:58 PM

they really hide the link to download the 2015 community edition ISO

user41796

No one ever said they were good about giving things away...

user41796

"You're looking for the community edition? Here, take a look at Ultimate instead."

user41796

"Oh, is that a bit much? Here, look at the professional edition then."

user41796

"What? That's still too much? Have you considered an MSDN subscription then?"

user114359

They make it really easy to get the web installer

user114359

6:01 PM

but if I am going to have to download it anyway, I may as well grab the ISO especially when I need it on two computers.

user114359

Hazards of a husband and wife both working from home: she is on speaker phone on a conference call and I just burped really loud.

user114359

(yes I know I am not actually working yet...)

user41796

When I worked from home, I had dogs. 99% of the time, my phone was on mute.

Jimmy Hoffa

6:18 PM

@Snowman the thing I don't understand is how people generate so damned many of them. You pay attention to them the first couple times you see them; and learn better practices, and next time they won't even happen. I've written many thousands of lines of code since I started my new job; and I just looked at the build and the only warnings are from legacy stuff... It's not that hard to not write code that people should be warned about to begin with.

Or if it is hard; it's something to strive for anyway.

@Snowman that's not a hazard. That should be followed with an exclamation of how awesome you are.

user114359

I take pride in my work. I don't care how big or small a task is, I try to do my best. Not everyone cares about the quality of their work, though.

user114359

There are a lot of people in our profession that honestly suck at programming.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Snowman yeah, but you can suck at lots of things in programming and still avoid the stupid crap that compilers bark about. Don't declare variables and never use them; why would you do that? Don't do that. Not hard.. Optimizing a query is hard, creating an asynchronous handshake is hard, making software secure is hard, fail at all of those things, don't fail at deleting that variable you declared after you realized you didn't need it, that's bloody easy.

user114359

@JimmyHoffa but that's what I am talking about: the kinds of dumb coding where the compiler puts a squiggly line under your code and you don't care because you suck.

user114359

This is not some mystery where the build server comes back later with a cryptic warning, the IDE is telling you what you did wrong and you don't care.

Jimmy Hoffa

6:25 PM

I suppose you're right. Paycheck keeps coming, whocares amirite?

user114359

@JimmyHoffa this.

user114359

shit, it's not like the old days when the pinnacle of IDEs was vi and emacs in a 80x25 display. Modern IDEs hold your hand and automate so much, yet some people still find ways to write awful code.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Snowman shutup, I'm writing .NET in emacs (in spaaaace!) right now! Agh this will not be received well.

user114359

actually I got that wrong. emacs is not an editor: it is a complete operating system.

Jimmy Hoffa

I'm growing tired of having all of visual studio just for one damned language. Every other language is far better served by emacs

though I will say I am very fond of visual studio's database projects. Those have served me well for many years now in dealing with schema diffs/updates

user41796

6:35 PM

@Snowman There are two types of people in the world. Those who accept this as the truth and those who are stuck in denial.

enderland

@GlenH7 and pedants.

user41796

@enderland stuck in denial

enderland

hmmm so our company apparently owns a house that is valued at $280k... I wonder if they'd be willing to make a deal to me when I relocate for a bunch less than that (it's like the person foreclosed, right?)

(our relo program will buy a home from you if it meets a bunch of pedantic criteria)

user41796

@enderland Can't hurt to ask.

user41796

Most companies don't over relo because of that contingency. Most relo packages include a "we'll buy the house if you can't sell it" type provision. From their perspective, it's a sunk cost and a liability at this point. So ask away.

enderland

6:46 PM

@GlenH7 $250k would be the absolute TOP of our price range, and that place seems like a great fit (for $250k)

@GlenH7 yeah our relo program is pretty legit for inter company moves, at least

user41796

Best thing you can do is come in with several comps to show why 280 is too high and really ought to be whatever

enderland

@GlenH7 yeah, it's like a 5% chance of us even buying that place - we both are going to want at least a 20% downpayment and have had other financial goals this year than saving for a house... but hey it's been on our intercompany site listing for a while now ;)

Duga

programmers.SE would probably be a better place for it — Pikamander2 40 secs ago

@Pikamander2 or... not? This question is 100% off topic on Programmers.SE... — enderland 28 secs ago

user114359

Poor Pikamander2...

user114359

probably wondering where we all came from.

enderland

6:52 PM

He deleted his comment

user41796

One day. They'll all learn. :-)

enderland

@GlenH7 it appears that house has been on the market since 2010 lol!

user41796

Try zillow to see what comparable houses are listed for

user41796

with some states (like mine) zillow really sucks. In other cases, it's pretty accurate

enderland

I'd guess that a place without someone living there for 5 years has a little bit of TLC required..

user114359

6:58 PM

@enderland what climate? Could pipes freeze in the winter?

enderland

@Snowman midwest, absolutely!

user114359

All it takes is a malfunctioning furnace, not paying the gas bill, etc. and you could have tens of thousands of dollars in water damage

user114359

Also, copper thieves.

user114359

I hope the company has someone checking up on the property, going inside, looking around, etc.

user114359

They probably hired a company like Howard Hanna to manage it for them.

enderland

7:01 PM

wait zillow shows it as being sold in 2012, then relisted spring of this year

#openMLS

user41796

@enderland corporate internet may be out of date...

durron597

@GlenH7 @enderland so background check just cleared as of 3 minutes ago. Give notice today or first thing monday?

user114359

@durron597 you have a signed offer letter and a start date?

enderland

@GlenH7 no one was realtor.com showing incorrect info, LOL

user41796

@durron597 drug screen too?

user41796

7:04 PM

Or just background check?

durron597

@GlenH7 I don't think there is a drug screen

user41796

ie. are all of their contingents fulfilled?

user41796

They would have told you within the offer letter itself

durron597

I think so, but Snowman makes a good point about a signed offer letter

enderland

^

user41796

7:04 PM

Do you have a .pdf or hard copy of the offer letter yet?

user114359

I never give notice until my first day of work is etched in stone

durron597

@GlenH7 no, but I just emailed the HR person asking for one

user41796

What I'm used to is receiving a letter that says: "Dear you, here's an offer. blah blah. This offer is contingent upon successful completion of A, B, C. Welcome aboard."

user55340

@Snowman I don't mind copper thieves if they replace it with pex.

user41796

Okay, so you don't have an offer yet then. :-)

user41796

7:06 PM

> Thou shalt wait until thou hast a formal letter before announcing anything.

user114359

@MichaelT "thieves" normally just take stuff and not replace it. Plus, pex is very bad at conducting electricity and makes for terrible wiring.

durron597

> The offer below, if accepted, will be contingent on you passing a background check. Upon successful completion of your background check, I will email you an official offer document.

I got an offer email.

user55340

I was thinking the copper pipe in my house.

user41796

Wait until you have the official offer document

user41796

And it doesn't sound like they require a drug screen

user41796

7:08 PM

IMO, they're a waste of money for most companies anyway

durron597

They're in Seattle, I bet half the company smokes pot anyway

user55340

Netapp has an asterisk on the "have you ever been arrested" question.

user114359

@MichaelT copper pipe is the usual target because an armload of that is worth more and doesn't require stripping insulation before scrapping, but copper thieves can and will take wiring, too. Especially in a basement where the wiring is easily accessible in the ceiling. Just flip the main breaker, grab a flashlight, and snip away.

user55340

"* do not answer yes if this is only for marijuana use"

durron597

fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkk.... I just totally reorganized the structure of the SVN repo and now I'm getting "blah blah shares no common ancestry with blah"

user55340

7:11 PM

@durron597 quick! Give notice! Now!

user41796

@durron597 Yeah, I don't think that screens are on their priority list

durron597

@MichaelT seriously.

user114359

If I owned my own software company I would not have drug screening. However, I would say "what you do on your own time is your own business: just make sure it does not adversely affect your performance during business hours."

user55340

> Yep. Today is my last day. Ps. Switch to git from an svn backup on Monday.

user114359

Want to snort cocaine off a prostitute? Have at it: just come down off your high by Monday morning, and don't tell me about it.

durron597

7:12 PM

@MichaelT That's the plan, but I did the folder reorg first

the repo was a giant trainwreck

user41796

@Snowman Too bad you're not hiring... :-)

user114359

@GlenH7 If I ever win powerball I'm going to start a software company

user114359

so that's what, a 1:300,000,000 chance?

user55340

@Snowman one of the double digit employee id engineering devs was "if this provision is here, you can't hire me"

user41796

The company I work for has offices in states where mj is fully legal. Rumors are floating around of folk having (repeatedly?) failed screens and being sacked.

user114359

7:14 PM

@GlenH7 This issue has come up a few times: just because MJ is legal does not mean an employer cannot fire you for using it.

user114359

I don't see the point, MJ is fairly harmless

user55340

Now, employer ^^ - yea. Drug screening of interns on the day after mardigras.

user41796

@Snowman Yep, very well established point. Even MMJ doesn't afford additional protections.

user114359

“Honestly I feel like weed is not a performance-enhancing drug at all,” Rousey told MMAjunkie. “We are tested for it for entirely political reasons. The athletic commission is there to make sure we compete fairly and they are testing us for something that has nothing to do with athletic competition.”

user41796

AFAIK, it's mildly dis-associative, so it should help with pushing through any pain from a workout. But I think it has zero effect upon strength or endurance.

user41796

7:18 PM

Thought I read somewhere about NFL'ers and related toking up to curb the pain from practice

user114359

If "having munchies" is performance-enhancing, then go ahead and ban it

Telastyn

7:35 PM

my code tends to generate a bunch of warnings.

"Missing XML Comment for..."

user114359

@Telastyn some warnings are worth ignoring, but at least disable them somehow to reduce the amount of noise in the error window

Jimmy Hoffa

@Telastyn yeah, I don't have the XML comment warnings on.. another important part of writing decent code; don't follow rules just because someone made them up.

Telastyn

@snowman: I do, I click on the "warnings" button. If warnings mattered, they'd be errors (see "Treat warnings as errors.")

I had this argument with my team yesterday even

Ixrec

unless it's C++, where almost all warnings are genuinely bad

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ixrec it's C++, you don't need to be warned to know it's got bugs. :D

Telastyn

7:41 PM

yeah, C++ warnings should universally be treated as errors, because they eventually will be

user114359

C++ warnings basically mean your code compiled but does not do what you think it does, and will fail spectacularly at runtime.

durron597

so, no one answered my question, generally speaking, give notice EOD friday or first thing monday?

Telastyn

7:57 PM

"We find that if you let people go on Friday there is less chance of an... incident."

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