The Whiteboard

Ampt

5:05 PM

I'll play with the pwm tonight. I've got a tip120 that I can use to get to 12v

LuckyLuke

5:22 PM

Hello

user41796

Hi

LuckyLuke

I have some questions regarding user stories and tasks

Could you help?

user41796

Fire away and we'll find out

LuckyLuke

Is it bad to have user stories with only one task?

user41796

why would it be bad? Seems perfectly fine so long as the one task is scoped

LuckyLuke

5:24 PM

As a buyer I want to add items to my cart so that I later can purchase the items.

user41796

that's not scoped

LuckyLuke

That is an example of a user story

user41796

That's multiple tasks

user41796

adding tems

LuckyLuke

Could you explain?

user41796

5:24 PM

purchasing items

user41796

Login is a decent example of a single task

LuckyLuke

But that is only the reason for adding that feature?

user41796

login broken down though means several steps

user41796

So what do you do when someone decides they don't want to buy an item out of the cart?

user41796

throw out the other 10 items too?

LuckyLuke

5:26 PM

I create other user stories?

Ampt

if there's only 1 thing under your user story it could be 1 of 2 things.
1. Your tasks are too large
2. Your stories are too small

LuckyLuke

As a buyer I want to remove items from my cart.

user41796

@LuckyLuke but now you can't since you added them and paid for them

LuckyLuke

@Ampt How would you create a user story for adding items to a shopping cart?

user41796

as a buyer I want to add items to my shopping cart

LuckyLuke

5:27 PM

@GlenH7 Did I say that I have bought them?

I only stated that is the reason?

Ampt

@LuckyLuke I think that adding an individual item to a shopping cart isn't a user story. that's only part of it. As a user, I want to be able to gather multiple items before checking out

then adding, removing, updating counts, etc, are tasks under that

user41796

@LuckyLuke sorry, I read an "and" instead of "so"

user41796

Yes, add an item to the cart is a reasonable user story by itself

user41796

or it should be.

LuckyLuke

@Ampt Okey, so you would do it like that. Interesting. I have not understood tasks yet. Should they be formulated as: Create service for adding items, create service for updating items

@GlenH7 no problme

What is a task essentially

user41796

5:29 PM

@LuckyLuke a subjectively small unit of work

LuckyLuke

but formulated as a very technical thing?

Create method in cart service for adding items

user41796

No, need to be very technical

LuckyLuke

or more abstract: Create service for adding items

user41796

it depends upon the team working on the stories and tasks

user41796

really advanced teams don't need a lot of fluff in their tasks or stories - they already know what's needed

user41796

5:31 PM

Not so advanced teams need things broken down significantly more

LuckyLuke

That is; they create many more technical tasks than advanced teams you mean?

user41796

yes

user41796

agile is supposed to be developer agnostic, but I haven't seen it play out that way

LuckyLuke

Would a title for a task be to technical if you start adding information about which class and method you should change?

user41796

what I've generally seen is varying levels of detail based upon the likelihood of who is picking up the story

user41796

5:34 PM

@LuckyLuke depends upon the project & team

Ampt

I've seen it both ways: tasks are pretty much Dev only where an end user wouldn't know what it meant, or a task is development ignorant and it's up to the dev to figure out how to accomplish it

user41796

although as a rule you should specify "what" or "why" not "how"

Ampt

in either case, it should be small enough to be done by a person in < a week

usually a day if you can get it to be that way

LuckyLuke

I see

Ampt

otherwise we would try and break it up

LuckyLuke

5:35 PM

But would tasks for an adding item to cart be split up into each layer?

One task for changing business logic in domain model

another for exposing a method in the service layer

etc etc.?

user41796

whereas our stuff is all over the map. I'll have stories taking 2 weeks (our sprint length) and we'll have stories taking 1/2 day

Ampt

they could be yes, depending on the size of the project

user41796

@LuckyLuke depends upon your team

LuckyLuke

What would you prefer if you were able to choose?

Ampt

ask your devs

I doubt we can make decisions for them regarding that

LuckyLuke

5:37 PM

I am the only developer, I have Jira for a big personal project :)

Ampt

thats the point of agile: the devs get a lot of say

user41796

@LuckyLuke Do what you want then

well

Hence, me :)

not the only point

5:37 PM

I want to learn

so I ask how you would do it

I will adapt to my own style of course

user41796

What would you be learning then?

user41796

Just because we said "X", that doesn't really mean anything

user41796

It's just a reflection of our experiences which are not representative of what your experience will be

LuckyLuke

No, but I would like to know how other people do it?

user41796

Don't mimic something someone else is doing under the guise of "learning". Know why they are doing what they are doing, and follow the principles they are working on

LuckyLuke

5:39 PM

How they create tasks

user41796

Find a problem, identify a solution, break it down.

user41796

rinse; repeat

user41796

4

Q: Is lack of whitespace a sign of a cargo cult programmer?

Eric Lippert has written about cargo cult programming, and Steve McConnell has tackled the subject from a Software Engineering point of view. Eric provides a fairly succinct description: They understood the form but not the content. There are lots of cargo cult programmers -- programmers wh...

user41796

Have a read over the links in that question. They should shift your perspective a bit

LuckyLuke

Can't say you hit the spot with that link but

All I asked for was some input on how other creates user stories and build their tasks

Ampt

5:48 PM

@LuckyLuke He's not trying to be harsh, but trying to point out that you're coming at it from the wrong point of view

if you want to learn to fish, you don't start by learning how to build a boat right?

node["children"] = [child for child in node["children"] if (child["folder"] is False or child["children"] != [])]

that makes perfect sense right?

am I abusing list Comprehensions?

user41796

I had to read slowly, but I could understand it

user41796

you're pulling the list if the node is not a folder and children isn't empty

Ampt

basically I'm trimming out all the folders with empty contents

but yeah

This feels like it's a trinary. great for little things, but prone to abuse

user41796

many things in programming are like that

Ampt

or am I just being paranoid?

user41796

5:59 PM

when your anonymous function blows past a page of text, it's too long. :-)

Ampt

6:18 PM

then it's long enough to get a name, right?

You know, just 55lbs of thrust, no big deal or anything.

you'd really only need 1

wonder if you could attach an alternator and then put some outboard quadcopter motors to do flight control

use this as the main thrust provider

user41796

@Ampt That's all sorts of crazy cool

Ampt

6:35 PM

consumes 8 oz of fuel/min at full throttle though. gonna need to carry quite a bit to get anywhere

user41796

what do you power it with?

Ampt

jet fuel.

user41796

cause that's trivial to source...

Ampt

Jet A1 to be specific

it also takes 1-K Kerosene though

which should be much easier to source

whatsisname

jet fuel is easy to come by

user41796

6:39 PM

but is it trivial? :-D </pedantry>

Ampt

each engine can only hold enough jet fuel for 112 minutes of flight... lame.

that is, 50 pound of fuel gets you 112 minutes of full throttle flight

also it's probably very loud

user41796

probably louder than your watercooler solution, that's for sure.

Ampt

ah, yes. perfect. I'll just run one of these 24/7 then I wont hear the watercooling!

user41796

we knew you'd eventually figure out a solution. But that's a pretty wild way of avoiding any potential issues from PWM noise

whatsisname

if you want mad overclock

just watercool

but connect it to a chiller outside your house

and have all the pumping and whatnot elsewhere

user41796

6:46 PM

Could probably turn it into a small radiant floor heating system, amirgiht?

Ampt

I've got a 480mm radior and a 240mm one

so I think I'm doing alright on my cooling capacity

user41796

"doing alright" != being an engineer

Ampt

That's the 480mm radiator

user20683

you know I was gonna say that I had popped in to make sure nothing was being set on fire....

user20683

I now see my concerns were justified.

2

Ampt

6:50 PM

(That's not my picture, but that is the radiator in question)

user41796

@WorldEngineer with this crowd?! Always justified.

Ampt

it's 20.4" from end to end

and 2.2" thick, without fans

I think that it's sufficiently over-engineered for what I need

user41796

@Ampt pfffft

psr

In a supernova that thing is toast.

user15026

@Ampt I dunno, compared to the plan to save my recycle box that included drones, this is nothing

Ampt

6:55 PM

@AshleyNunn Turboprop powered drones no less!

user15026

Oh yes.

Ampt

@GlenH7 STOP! I have no more money for this!

user41796

@AshleyNunn The high dB sirens plan got at least two votes though

Ampt

(Although I do have space to mount another one of that size...)

user15026

@GlenH7 That's true, and that is a little easier for me to implement.

Ampt

6:55 PM

Must... resist.... obvious baiting

user41796

Makes it super easy to locate later on too. Just listen

user41796

@Ampt That's okay, you're still new in your job. You're still working your way up to real engineer status.

Ampt

@AshleyNunn Yeah, but does it drop anvils on the evil-doers a-la Wile E. Coyote?

user20683

attention citizen, you are being trolled by a mach...BLAM!

user41796

#gauntletThrown

user15026

6:56 PM

@Ampt It does not. But it will likely get me in less trouble.

user20683

@Ampt Anvils are inefficient, use depleted uranium sabots

Ampt

1 min ago, by Ampt

@GlenH7 STOP! I have no more money for this!

@WorldEngineer oooh, that gives me an idea! We could put the anvils into orbit and then deorbit them on top of the desired target

user41796

How about a little white phosphorous instead?

Ampt

Of course you may want to wait until the perpetrator is at least a few miles from your house, or you may end up living in a crater...

psr

Big flaw in Stack Exchange model: A critical mass of engineers will inevitably begin discussing ways to destroy the world.

user41796

6:59 PM

@psr Need more beer

Ampt

Like that's not the goal in the first place.

user20683

An anvil sized thing dropped from orbit would do almost no damage

user20683

See Sky Lab

psr

@GlenH7 Huh? Under what circumstances does that comment add information?

Ampt

@psr See: All.

user41796

7:00 PM

@psr Did you forget what chat room you're in?!

psr

I'm saying it's entirely redundant.

Ampt

@WorldEngineer I think that depends on the angle that you deorbit at

user41796

@psr oh, can't argue with that

user41796

but I'll take a single malt alongside it for good measure

psr

@WorldEngineer If you could drop things from orbit you could solve the beer problem and the cupcake problem.

Ampt

7:01 PM

Someone started Glen's process with the --Verbose flag this morning

Robert Harvey

Why are we discussing water coolers, drones and jet engines all within the same dozen or so chat messages?

psr

@RobertHarvey Standard unified model of whiteboard.

Robert Harvey

Must be one hella contraption you're building.

Ampt

Don't forget deorbiting mechanics.

user41796

@RobertHarvey Sheesh! Where have you been?

Robert Harvey

7:03 PM

I was here this morning when all these conversation started. Seems we're still designing the thing.

Transformers: the New Breed.

user41796

Beyond a brief interlude into what is likely an early case of cargo cult programming, I don't know that we ever really left those topics

Ampt

@RobertHarvey I've effectively Nerd Sniped the entire whiteboard. I think I'll be taking my leave for the day.

user20683

@Ampt Will you? At best your meteor has a 7 foot crater

user20683

actually no, even less than that

user20683

since it was meters not feet for the diameter

Ampt

7:10 PM

@WorldEngineer a 7 foot crater is big enough for a person!

meters > feet

if it was a 3.5 meter diameter, I'm taking out part of a house!

success!

user20683

you'd need to launch it at 1 degree or less

user20683

and very slowly

user20683

anything faster or with more inclination and you get an air burst at 90-110k feet

user20683

so you might get a bunch of tiny craters

user15026

@RobertHarvey People keep stealing my recycle bin.

user20683

7:12 PM

over an area so massive it wouldn't matter

user20683

There's no real approximation for oscillation:

user20683

arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/09/…

Ampt

That should stop some recycling bin thieves right?

user20683

@Ampt and obliterate her property

user41796

@WorldEngineer Pffffft. Quit interjecting logic into this. We're creating a solution that will solve the problem of the bin being stolen!

user20683

7:15 PM

@GlenH7 Yes but recovery of said bin is a constraint

user20683

besides, orbital weapons violate numerous international treaties

user41796

@WorldEngineer Erm, actually, no it's not. Or at least it hasn't been raised as a constraint yet.

user20683

@AshleyNunn Does the bin need to be intact?

user41796

pfffft, we're individuals, not coutries. We're not bound by those silly treaties.

user20683

@GlenH7 Citizens of a given countries are bound by all treaties the country of their citizenship enters into

user41796

7:17 PM

"blah blah blah" let's get back to the engineering already

user41796

we'll let the lawyers figure it out once we've got it working

user15026

@WorldEngineer It helps.

Ampt

I'm sure they'll come up with some bureaucratic solution once the dust has settled (Literally)

@AshleyNunn but it's ok, if we take out half the neighborhood in the process right?

user15026

@Ampt As long as me and my cat still have a house.

user20683

@AshleyNunn And the electric lines so you still have internet

user15026

7:19 PM

@WorldEngineer Yes I need internet or I will be sad and miss people's faces.

user41796

I'd like to note that these requirements were not brought up during the initial design sessions.

Ampt

UGH. CHANGE REQUESTS.

node["children"] = [child for child in node["children"] if (child["folder"] is False and datetime.strptime(child["properties"]["created"].split('.')[0], "%Y-%m-%dT%H:%M:%S") < date.today()-timedelta(days=3)) or child["children"] != []]

that's still OK right @GlenH7?

user41796

@Ampt Just because I can read it doesn't make it right

Ampt

Good enough for me!

enderland

is it friday yet

Ampt

7:23 PM

It seems like it in here

enderland

I have mon/fri off the next 5 weeks. this week is going to be rough!

user15026

@enderland I assume you are not like me and thus have 4 day weekends for 5 weeks?

enderland

@AshleyNunn depends on what "like me" is :)

user15026

@enderland I work parts of most weekends, an entire weekend off without booking it in advance is rare

enderland

no, I basically took an optional part-time for a few weeks (I wil lenjoy it)

user15026

7:34 PM

Have fun with it :) Got anything planned for the free time?

enderland

Not sure, I might catch up on a lot of reading and small projects I've wanted to do for a long time...

user15026

Sounds like a good plan to me :)

user15026

I am hoping with a couple lighter work days (one 5 and one 4 hour shift) and working mostly days (nothing later than 7 pm) I can start on some of my learning project stuff

enderland

8:26 PM

longer term I'd love to work 60 or 80%

user15026

If I could make enough money to live on with a part time gig that would be cool but highly unlikely at this point

enderland

Yeah... it's more of a longer term goal for me right now ;)

user15026

Fair enough :) With the skills I have right now to offer, I need to get a few more things sorted before that would even become a possibility, but it's fun to dream. :)

enderland

Yeah, agreed :)

Ampt

It's those damn benefits that get you

enderland

8:30 PM

benefits are but one factor of a compesnation package

Ampt

True. If you can get stuff like health and life insurance on a part time package, all the more power to you!

enderland

I more mean it depends on what you are paid

user15026

I miss having benefits.

Ampt

@enderland yeah, but you would have to be making quite a bit more to compensate for not having benefits

enderland

yeah, depends on a lot of things (plus how good the benefits are)

Robert Harvey

8:33 PM

In Soviet America, everyone will be buying their own health insurance in a few years.

user41796

@RobertHarvey Where they'll deny coverage after allowing an initial fill of the prescription?

user41796

</grumbles>

Robert Harvey

Obamacare came out, and rates went so high that my employer had to go to a silver plan with another provider.

So now I'm with my wife's insurance, but it looks like they're going to change providers there too.

enderland

Yeah it kinda screws over anyone who had anything close to a good healthcare plan before

Robert Harvey

Why government thinks they can do anything better than the private sector is beyond me.

user41796

8:36 PM

FWIW, HSAs were created under the W Bush administration

enderland

HSAs are great, be nice to not really need them though

user41796

I would agree with that

enderland

Yeah. Great solution to an overall annoying and crappy problem, though, I think more visibility into the cost of medical is also an overall positive thing - being able to just blindly accept all medical possibilities/expenses isn't really that great for the system longer term...

user41796

@enderland My rant of the day is the incredible difference between "rack rate" medical pricing versus "usual and prevailing." Aka. what they'll charge if you don't have insurance vs. if you do

user41796

It leads to jaw dropping price differentials

Ampt

8:43 PM

Yeah, the problem with the free-market approach to healthcare is that you don't know what anything costs until it's all said and done

enderland

and it's not really free market since for many people the cost is "free"

Ampt

can't exactly look up the cost of your surgeon in the back of an ambulance

"No, wait, there's a doctor with 4.5 stars on yelp 25 miles down the road! Take me there!"

Robert Harvey

Obamacare was supposed to lower costs, not increase them. If the Republicans had worked to make it a better law, instead of wasting all their time trying to repeal it, there might have been a better outcome.

But the Democrats really wanted single payer. And that's what they're going to wind up with anyway.

user41796

@Ampt even if you know what surgery you need, you often can't look the exact one up nor can you find all the incidentals that will be involved

Ampt

@GlenH7 There was a complication and we had to bring in the local expert, here's his bill too!

user41796

8:46 PM

@Ampt I wouldn't know anything about that.... <polite cough>

user41796

@RobertHarvey I'll agree that what we got satisfied neither side, and change should be beneficial

user41796

Let's either move to a solid single payer system or get rid of the creaking, lumbering aspects of the current plan

psr

@RobertHarvey Saved me a ton.

user41796

@psr For most areas, it has brought down costs. But not in every case.

psr

@GlenH7 Which probably does make it all the more annoying if it brings your own costs up.

whatsisname

8:57 PM

yeah the individual mandate is garbage

user41796

I'm not able to find a non-partisan article about that at the moment, so I'm giving up on backing those claims. Probably one of the better summaries is here at the Economist

whatsisname

it doesn't help that health care and health insurance are lumped together when the two should be seperate

gnat

Why were you searching for "matlab plot penis" anyways??? — Jan Dvorak 11 hours ago

...to plot a penis in matlab. do you happen to know how? — tomwilde 9 hours ago

enderland

I go back and forth on healthcare because a lot of people, such as myself, are less likely to actually go ahead and spend money on anything preventative if it's "out of pocket" vs "free"

Ampt

And with the way the current market works, if you got sick, you could be totally screwed for a long, long time without it.

Doing it a-la cart just isn't an option

whatsisname

9:15 PM

wow

2

Q: How can I calculate the rotational force and motor HP needed to lift a 5lb sheet from a horizontal position to a vertical position from one end?

Essentially, I need to know the following: How do I calculate the rotation force along a fulcrum? Is there an equation? What is the weight of a 5 lb object at the fulcrum if the fulcrum is located at Point A (I am assuming Point A is located halfway between the clip attached to the toll gate an...

installation construction electric-motor engineering gates

I don't understand, how adults don't understand this stuff

user20683

@whatsisname Most adults have a very patchy mathematical education

psr

@whatsisname 90+% of adults don't know what the question is even asking, no less any of the answers.

whatsisname

yeah, and it boggles my mind

you don't even need to be very mathematically inclined

enderland

@whatsisname tl;dr

whatsisname

look at Diagram D, how did the asker even think that would behave that way?

i will never understand

user41796

9:22 PM

@whatsisname because they hear the term ("fulcrum") but don't conceptually understand what it means.

user20683

Fulcrum: The NATO reporting name for a particular kind of Russian Fighter Jet. A Mig-29 IIRC

user41796

@WorldEngineer I would have sworn it was an Eastern European futbal club.

user20683

@GlenH7 They are roughly in the same tier as far as total capacity for property destruction goes.

user41796

Needs more white phosphorous?

user20683

@GlenH7 Probably not

user20683

9:30 PM

The F-35 might though

user20683

that thing is a disgrace

user41796

Are we back to those pesky international treaties again?

user20683

@GlenH7 I'm actually less aware of arms import/export treaties than I should be

user41796

Regrettably, it seems they are ignored when it's convenient

user41796

You know there's trouble brewing when you hear talk of "need a real engineer" and you work at an engineering firm.

Ampt

9:43 PM

You gotta admit though, the asker put a lot of time into that question with lots of diagrams

@GlenH7 Are they trying to use orbital bombardment to stop recycling bin thieves? cuz if they aren't they ain't real engineers.

user41796

My professional NDA prevents me from disclosing the subject of the conversation.

Ampt

blink once for orbital bombardment, twice for anvil dropping turboprop quadcopters

three times means they're just trying to control some fans and everyone thinks PWM is the solution

lol

user41796

That could be taken out of context too easily I'm afraid.

user20683

@GlenH7 Sanitized

user41796

Thanks!

user41796

9:49 PM

None of it was true, I we don't do fun stuff like that. But way too easily misconstrued

user41796

Now, in previous lives and with old contacts of mine.... nevermind.

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