The Whiteboard

Matt D

1:44 AM

i've gone off sennhiser earphones

their quality isnt what it used to be

user55340

3:27 PM

My use of the Dark Arts in Java (annotation and reflections) looks good!

user55340

5:40 PM

@GlenH7 @gnat we've got the most 10k and mods delete outside of SO on the network.

user55340

27

A: Around how many questions get deleted by 10kers in Stack Exchange?

I'm glad you asked this... There are a lot of misconceptions surrounding how much stuff gets deleted, and who is responsible - so I'm going to provide a bit more information than what you asked for, in hopes of clearing this up. Questions deleted during the past 365 days on Stack Overflow 659...

user41796

@MichaelT warm fuzzy

user55340

851 by 10k, 2559 by mods.

user55340

(nearly 5k by Community)

user41796

@MichaelT No fair. The mods get an infinite amount + tequila fueled benders. And we're stuck with rationing

user55340

5:44 PM

Most sites have 0 for 10k deletes.

user41796

@MichaelT bleh

user41796

And I guess I can't diss Community too much if it's knocked out ~5k deletes.

user41796

And it did that without any tequila to spur it on.

user41796

And I love when @oded is watching the incoming question queue

user55340

Thank you @Oded

Thomas Owens

5:53 PM

Happy Engineer's Week for any engineers out there.

user41796

And the same to you!

Thomas Owens

I should go poke the engineering managers to buy all the engineers beer or something after work this week.

I don't think that would go over so well. Just because of the cost.

user41796

That would be a very expensive proposition around here

user41796

But the majority probably wouldn't want to head out anyway. Either the introverted-going-drinking-with-coworkers-GAH! type or need to head home to family.

user55340

@gnat it doesn't C&P well... I thought of it... the extreme wide is a mess.

gnat

6:02 PM

@MichaelT worst thing, it doesn't format monospace

user55340

Give me enough time where I can think about other things (probably ~6h or so) and I'll make a pretty picture.

gnat

sites that vote less, have more questions naturally wiped out by Roomba

user41796

@gnat voting is caring, right? Communities that vote care about their sites.

user55340

Its something a lot of people don't quite realize... we downvote because we care.

Oded

Well... being active about broken windows is caring

user41796

6:15 PM

And Oded auto-closes crap questions to save us close votes so we can keep on showing we care...

user41796

I hear we inherited more than a few broken windows on this site... :-D

Oded

Gosh guys... I'm getting all emo-shional here

The NPR days, eh? I kinda missed them completely. Only cottoned on to the site after the Great Cleanup

user41796

@Oded If the fireworks or crimson background requests had been implemented, we might accuse you of doing it just to see that bling. But alas, they don't exist yet and we can't impugn you. :-)

Oded

hehe

user41796

There are a few gems from NPR days still hanging around that crop up.

user41796

6:18 PM

And by gem, I mean "GAH! How is it that this crap is still around?!?!" :-)

user55340

@Oded you could put the red background in when you fix that safari window thats behind the text...

user41796

@MichaelT If I weren't so lazy, I would dig into the CSS and find the background color code that's used. Then it should be a quick hack to overlay a custom CSS with a new value.

user55340

(hmm... my 'toss it in the CV queue has only been seen by two people so far')

user55340

programmers.stackexchange.com/review/close/53462

user41796

@MichaelT Why am I not shocked to see that I have already reviewed that one?

user55340

6:23 PM

(and oddly, there's a recommendation question that I cast a leave open and glen has a close on... the NoSQL one... its very specific with its requirements)

user55340

programmers.stackexchange.com/review/close/53662

user41796

dang. I blew by 5k close reviews without pausing to grab a screenshot. I'll have to wait until 5150 for the next opportunity

user41796

@MichaelT I generally VTC all rec type questions. I'd be happy to retract my vote too

user55340

@GlenH7 Just one of those "I think the guy put enough work into the requirements that it is an answerable question" - but it could go either way.

user41796

@MichaelT and they selected an answer, so I retracted my vote.

user55340

6:26 PM

(FWIW, I've also downvoted answers in there too that didn't do a good job answering)

user55340

@Oded a number of those reviews, you'll note are Goma questions. I've see a few of his questions get activity in the past weeks as things where people are "ohh!" and try to answer them...

user55340

the close votes on them are an attempt to keep people from answering those off topic / opinion troll questions.

user41796

If you don't know that user's history, you could easily be misled into thinking the question is answerable.

user55340

Yep - programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/22770/…

user55340

Look for the "answered Feb 12 at 16:02" answer

user41796

7:04 PM

@MichaelT And .... sniped. :-) This one is funnier: programmers.stackexchange.com/a/72725/53019

Ampt

You guys and your 10k links

user41796

@Ampt neener neener neener. </sing song>

Ampt

@GlenH7 psh, have fun with your close votes :P

user41796

This is even more cool - delete votes. :-)

Ampt

Fine, have fun with your responsibility! :P

user41796

7:19 PM

You're too old to get away with the petulant teenager response. Sorry. :-P

Ampt

psr

@RobertHarvey What people actually usually try to do is bid low to get the contract but write up an outline that attempts to guarantee the scope won't be sufficient for the software to be usable. The contract includes provisions for additional work at a fat hourly rate, and this is used to make up what was lost on the original bid (plus variable amount proportional to the unscrupulousness of the contractor). Kind of unethical, but it's also hard to see how else they might deal with such a client.

user41796

@psr It's a somewhat common practice in the construction industry as well. Underbid against the crap spec knowing you'll more than make it up on the change requests.

user41796

Friend of mine would only bid T&M on his contracts to avoid the ethical issues. He'd ballpark a cost, but would make sure the client understood it was strictly an estimate. And that the estimate was only as good as the client could specify what they wanted built.

user55340

7:34 PM

> PHP = PERSONAL HACKED PAGES

AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

No serious PHP is garbage, while scrubbing the web search for error prone pages and sites the list script injections or other error/viral prone behaviors. Its a hackers a dream. Still better than classic ASP though.

On another note I don't think comparing PHP and C# should go in the same topic, one is for scripting and one is for programming.

user55340

@Ampt here's one for you...

user55340

1

A: Factorial in haiku!

PHP, 3 haikus All-in-rhyme haikus! function haiku($can) { // function haiku can (5) if ($can == 1) // if can is equal to one (7) return ++$stun; // return increase stun (5) if ($can == 0) { // if can equals ou (5) echo "It is one, you know! "; //echo "It is one, you...

Lucius

8:07 PM

Hello, I'm not sure if this belongs here, but I think I need some help. I am trying to build an application that features very rich and complex user interaction and its just really hard to get started. Among other things it has a node based interface, which is definitely non-trivial to implement. Does anyone know some techniques for splitting such a beast into more manageable parts? I'm quite overwhelmed by it at the moment. Thank you!

user55340

@Lucius Whats the smallest part that would work?

user55340

And by 'work' I mean "I'm going to need a class that does XYZ and has this API"

user55340

(do note that I'm not a node guy... so I'm not sure how much help I'll be... but thats the basic approach for big thing design)

Lucius

Well, I find that question already difficult to answer. What do you mean by 'work'? Just the most basic features?

Thomas Owens

I feel important. I get to tell people "just schedule some time on my Calendar whenever I'm free". It's nice to make other people work around my schedule.

user55340

8:24 PM

@Lucius I'm working on an idle game. Its got lots of parts to it. So I sat down and wrote something... a class that does dice the way the game is to be designed.

user55340

Just a little thing. But its a step forward.

user55340

Though thats more a 'bottom up' design. You could also do a "trivial front" and keep filling in the holes.

user55340

For example, lets say you're making a payroll system. Well, day 1 you write the program that takes the hours worked, multiples by a constant and it prints out a check.

user55340

Its a working payroll system... though may lack a bit in business logic.

user55340

So, once you get that part - a working trivial program, you do the next bit. Everyone has a different payrate... implement that.

user55340

8:26 PM

And then you have the witholdings for payroll (everyone has the same value to start with)

Lucius

In theory that definitely sounds like the way to go. I've developed applications before. But this time it seems like the initial complexity even for the most basic functionality is already too much to handle. I don't know why.. It seems like I got a wall in my head preventing me from breaking it apart.

For example: The nodes are rectangles that can be moved around. Each node has input slots to the left and a single output to the right. Inputs can be connected to outputs. With dragging nodes, drawing and updating connections this already gets quite complicated and it doesn't even do anything yet. I don't even want to think about how features like panning, zooming, selecting, removing and finally multiple types of nodes would come together. And that's really only the front, the GUI.

user55340

@Lucius Its a "you've gotta start somewhere" and there are two ends you can start at.

user55340

8:42 PM

I suspect the "start at the top and keep filling in" is the more productive approach (rather than my toy game which just building the parts is often enough).

Lucius

You are right, not doing anything will also not get me anywhere. If I attack it from enough angles something may finally work.

user55340

There's multiple angles, but basically two approaches. Either write the smallest components and then put them together as you build up... or start with the simple high level and fill in the logic as you do the next feature.

user55340

If this is something for professional, I'd opt to the second one - you always have a 'demo' available. Business owners tend not to be interested in "I made an abstract class that exports a report! umm... no, its not used anywhere yet... but it will be some day."

Lucius

It's just a hobby project. But I find myself often more productive when doing professional work. Maybe I should start setting stricter deadlines for myself.

Robert Harvey

9:20 PM

@psr It sounds like a recipe for misery to me.

user55340

@RobertHarvey On both sides. Though hopefully the client only makes that mistake once.

user41796

@RobertHarvey It's calculated risk

user41796

And to a degree, it depends upon how well you can bluff things

user41796

The more poorly defined the spec, the greater the likelihood that a change request will be required.

user55340

You've gotta make sure that you define it well enough that the client doesn't drive a semi through it with features that you've gotta implement.

psr

9:35 PM

@RobertHarvey It means a fair percentage of the project effort (on both sides) will likely be spent arguing about what was in scope.

user41796

@MichaelT That's the risk management portion

user41796

And there's a break-even point somewhere midway into the project to where you don't necessarily care if the project delivers or not. You've recorded (and billed) enough change requests at that point that you've covered all of your costs.

user55340

Btw, since its a popularity contest...

user55340

0

A: Factorial in haiku!

Perl $r = 1; for(1 # r gets one for one .. pop @ARGV) { $r *= # to pop arg v r splat gets $_; } print $r; # the default print r Toss this into a file named 'f.pl' (doesn't matter, just how I ran it below) And the output: $ perl f.pl 0 1$ perl f.pl 3 6$ perl f.pl 10 36288...

user41796

And the SO primaries have started!

user55340

9:39 PM

@GlenH7 Yep. Already voted for some.

user55340

I'm kind of disappointed that a major theme is "how many days logged"

user55340

Or the less than 4 digit flag counts on some of them.

user41796

Wasn't the last election about electing those who made the most noise in order to decrease the load on the existing mods?

user55340

It was jokingly said.

user41796

I'm not knocking that approach, mind you. :-) Just recall it being hinted at

user55340

9:43 PM

I work from the assumption of "those who are flagging more are more active janitors now... they get a bigger broom with a diamond"

user41796

Did anyone sneak gnat's nomination in there?

user41796

This question appears to be off-topic because it is about using the tar command and optional parameters, and is not a programming concept or design issue. — GlenH7 10 secs ago

user41796

That's as close of a bone as I'm going to throw on that question

user41796

Reading over some of the self-nominations, I'm left with "WAT?!"

user55340

@GlenH7 yep.

user55340

9:51 PM

I've got more than a few downvotes on that list... and its obvious who I'm point to too.

user41796

I like that the floor is 0 when someone starts heading into negative vote territory

user55340

Lots of "help the newbie" type ideas... which don't require a diamond.

user55340

Oh, have you poked that "How to be a Programmer" link?

user41796

@MichaelT I've gotten about a 1/4 of the way into it so far. I have a lot of crap going on at home right now, so it's hard to sit and read for an extended period of time.

user55340

Theres a lot in there too... so yea.

user55340

9:54 PM

Oh, did you see my home fun from the weekend?

user41796

@MichaelT I cringed inside for you, yes

user55340

The video is better... sounds like rain

user41796

First saw the photo, and was like WTF? Where's the globe? And then I read...

user41796

ugh

user55340

Fortunately, today is cold and without sun. Unfortunately, there's snow.

user41796

9:55 PM

I have a minor leak off of the back door. Ruined an old calendar of castles I wanted to keep, but no significant damage beyond that

user55340

As soon as the weather clears enough, I've got general contractors to chose from.

user41796

bueno

user41796

Pretty sure I'll be doing the repair work myself. Fairly straightforward though.

user41796

Need to put in flashing; hang a stringer; extend out the steps; caulk / seal things up.

user41796

Saw a cool technique as I was driving today for walking on a steep pitched roof

user41796

9:58 PM

Essentially, it's a single rail ladder that is angled at one end. Angled portion goes over to the other side of the roof and holds the ladder in place so you can safely walk on the roof and paint the sides

user41796

How do you spend hours per day on SO and have a flag count below 1000?

user55340

I've got a couple hundred on there... and I rarely touch it.

user55340

(275 non-comment flags)

user55340

And then, as a 10k, how do you not pile on the NAA and such flags... or dispute them (though that doesn't count as a flag).

user41796

@MichaelT Oh, I was reading over the SO nominations and one said that room owners aren't supposed to pick fights. We got some 'splaining to do I guess...

user41796

10:09 PM

blatant trolling of each other doesn't count as a fight, right? :-D

user55340

Heh...

user55340

Though I can't think of any fights or even 'loud discussions' we've had here.

user55340

On SO though... those rooms can get quite tense.

user41796

We are fairly laid back, this is true. Got a bit ugly when Jimmy and Ampt were arguing how to cook brats. But I kind of baited them into that one ...

Robert Harvey