Ask Ubuntu General Room

Seth

3:00 AM

You're really getting to the bottom of the barrel of excuses and my patience.

Braiam

@Seth and?

@Seth is not

Seth

@Braiam See the IRC link at the bottom of the answer.

@Braiam and stuff is going to happen if you don't start listening. Big time.

Braiam

no irc log can be over the wiki page wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseNotes

@Seth I feel like I'm not being listened either, so what give?

Seth

@Braiam You are being listened to. Or at least, you were. Until you refused to believe people disagree with you and that you are wrong. and at least 3 of the mods have asked/told you to stop. That gives.

Braiam

@Seth I stopped several hours ago, you guys keep bringing the same issue over and over again, when I point a problem about the general and you take it to the specific

I'm only seeing the big picture and is ugly if things continue the way they are

Seth

3:07 AM

@Braiam No, you keep forcing us to bring it up with you because you don't stop, even after having tons of warnings. This is getting old and you should really just stop it already.

@Braiam I don't care what you think you're seeing anymore. Stop.

Braiam

@Seth STOP WHAT NOW!?

I was just chilling out here and suddenly you bring up something I ought to have solved

Seth

@Braiam Stop removing version tags on version specific questions. and stop shouting.

@Braiam Excuse me? You knew it was a version specific question when you removed the tag. You knew what my, Oli's, Jorge's, terdon's, etc's opinion was and you know you have been asked and told to stop. But you haven't.

terdon

Seriously, how can a question about 14.04 releases and whether or not all flavors will be LTR not need a version specific tag? It will always be relevant to that version alone and could still be useful for historical reasons 10 years from now.

By the way @Braiam, I removed two or three version tags today and kept wishing you could see me, just to see the smile on your face :)

hbdgaf

@terdon that makes me feel all like this youtube.com/watch?v=6L6sGd0R6FI#t=590

terdon

@hbdgaf man, BB King telling someone that their blues "sound good", you can see slash melting :)

hbdgaf

3:16 AM

ikr

terdon

And watching a red haired white boy sing the blues and do it well is a sight to behold :)

Seth

terdon misspelling LTS as LTR made me think of a comic, but all I could find was this: exisle.net/mb/index.php?/topic/64484-looking-for-an-xkcd-comic anyone seen that one?

Hey, I passed Thomas W. in reputation. FINALLY! :P

terdon

@Seth Heh, no but I'd like to. I could hide behind it.

Seth

lol

terdon

This is still my favorite xkcd though. That and the tech support secret word

I have to try that at some point. And run. Fast.

hbdgaf

3:23 AM

To what tech support secret word are you referring? The BOFH?

I wanted this for a while...

Seth

@terdon LOL

I found out about the cut command today. I was sooo like "How could I possibly not have known about this?". It made my day.

terdon

@Seth Oh yeah, cut fold and join are brilliant!

I recently had someone ask me to go get a computer and turn it on so I could restart it. He refused to move further in the script until I said I had done that.

hbdgaf

@Seth you didn't know about cut? well awk is going to be pure skeksiness then..

Seth

@hbdgaf yeah. awk is up next.

terdon

paste is the other one. It really is very powerful when you grok the syntax

Seth

3:29 AM

@terdon That one makes me laugh every. single. time.

hbdgaf

@terdon i lol every time i see that one in my best jinxie emphazema hee

terdon

@Seth I've actually found a similar one.

I'll call tech support and ask: "Do you know what FTP, ssh, ping or telnet are? No? OK. Please let me talk to someone who does"

This actually greatly speeds things up and I end up actually speaking to someone who knows more than I do and can help.

hbdgaf

you really want to screw with them ask the port numbers for the same. money says they don't know...

Seth

@terdon Seriously? Wow.

I'd never even thought of that.

terdon

@hbdgaf They don't know that. They tend to be random people off the street who are given a list of answers. Generally if I need to call them, I know those bloody answers already.

Seth

3:32 AM

exactly ^^

hbdgaf

i know. they have an answer tree. it's mostly, give me someone that knows how things work so real troubleshooting can happen.

terdon

@Seth Yeah, it worked once or twice when calling my ISP with weird problem (http didn't work, other protocols did) the person I was talking to kept trying to convince me I had no internet connection while I could ping and ssh and even https perfectly well.

Seth

but as we've seen on Stack Exchange, you'd be surprised (or not) by the amount of people who don't even know how to Google an error.

hbdgaf

i've posted lmgtfy links with good answers to questions today... no really, in the last 8 hours here in chat.

terdon

Yes, which is why this kind of thing works for most people who call tech support. Hell, the first thing I ask is whether they have restarted their router.

@hbdgaf Yeah, no shit.

hbdgaf

3:33 AM

i don't think seth was here yet at that point.

Seth

terdon

@Seth Yeah, which is when I asked that question and it shut her up and I got passed on to an engineer.

hbdgaf

^^ yes that

Seth

@hbdgaf I really hate those, because 90% of the people who use them abuse them, but sometimes it really is lmgtfy.

@hbdgaf Probably not, as I haven't seen many around AU at all.

hbdgaf

@terdon sounds like a cacheing server problem to me.

@Seth i tend to avoid them whenever possible.

Seth

3:36 AM

which is good IMO.

terdon

Actually I think it was at the ISP's end but I don't remember.

hbdgaf

sometimes you just have to break out the "no really, you should have googled" sometimes.

Seth

true enough.

terdon

@Seth Yeah, but we got a guy here before that was really not willing to put in any effort.

hbdgaf was actually quite restrained. So was I until he called me a troll...

But don't worry, it didn't get really ugly or anything.

hbdgaf

yeah... i was all "really" when the troll word started flying around

Seth

3:37 AM

@terdon Oh I'm sure. I've dealt with them before. It is not a fun experience.

terdon

@hbdgaf I honestly thought he meant himself!

Troll, know thyself!

hbdgaf

I didn't, but then... moves along.

Seth

@terdon If it escalates to something like that feel free to flag the message for a mod and explain. If you feel it needs stopping.

terdon

@Seth Nah, it wasn't that bad.

hbdgaf

It stopped quite abruptly once the lmgtfy came out.

terdon

3:39 AM

:)

Seth

A lot of troubles could have been nipped early on if it had been stopped in a timely manner.

@terdon Not saying it was :)

terdon

And on the bright side, @hbdgaf finally confessed his undying love to me.

hbdgaf

Yes. Yes I did.

Seth

Just keep it in mind. Once "troll" starts flying it can get ugly fast.

terdon

Heh, way to make @Seth go and read the transcript :)

Seth

3:39 AM

@terdon heh

@terdon I haven't.. yet!

terdon

@Seth Yeah, they're big buggers, don't want to be hit by one

hbdgaf

Yerp. I think it was only flung once, and by neither of us.

terdon

^^ S'true mum!

Seth

all cool. I didn't think it had really escalated (I'd probably have heard about it) I was just encouraging you to bump it up if needed.

terdon

Actually, give troll physiology it stands to reason you'd need to be atroll to be able to fling one around.

Seth

3:41 AM

I trust you both ;)

terdon

@Seth Shows what you know :P

Seth

haha :P

hbdgaf

If you're really interested in the transcript it happens around here: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/201?m=14937005#14937005

terdon

@hbdgaf Great, here I was protecting you, and you go and give a mod a link to the only time you used the T-word!

Seth

Oh that turned out great. Really refreshing to see it deflate that way.

hbdgaf

3:44 AM

I used the word, but it wasn't AT a person, it was a don't use the t word use of the t word

terdon

Excuses, excuses.

hbdgaf

>.<

Seth

Anyway, I've got some JS to write. I'll be hanging around for a bit longer. Just in case the site explodes.

terdon

@Seth That sounds very disturbing. Just what is this JS supposed to do?

hbdgaf

Perform stack exhaustion from within a malformed pdf. No really... that happens.

Seth

3:47 AM

@terdon Gather, sort, compare and handle some form inputs. Fun stuff, yeh.

Danatela

guys do you know about initramfs?

Seth

I was thinking, are .desktop files considered executable?

terdon

@Danatela Try us

@Seth Yes, just check with ls -l

Danatela

I'd like to change script there

0

Q: Change initramfs script

I made RAID 0 by mdadm'ing partition located on dmraid VIA VT6421 and Western Digital hdd. Installed Ubuntu on that RAID. Now, when I boot, I get (initramfs) ash prompt. There, I have to write mdadm --stop /dev/md1 mdadm --assemble --scan And hit Ctrl+D to resume. Then Ubuntu loads normally. ...

Seth

@terdon did that:

seth@johnson:/usr/share/applications$ ls -l zenmap.desktop
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 277 Feb 19 05:38 zenmap.desktop

That one isn't.

terdon

3:49 AM

@Seth Huh, well then no. Actually, it makes sense, they're not run as such, they're probably sourced and the executable they point to is run. I assume that desktop file works right?

Avinash Raj

On which time did Ubuntu 14.04 will be released?

Seth

@terdon yes it does work. Guess they're just not executable.

Probably like you said.

terdon

@Danatela Hmm, sorry, don't know. If you don't get an answer here, try moving it to U&L that kind of thing is likelier to be answered there.

Seth

@AvinashRaj The 17th I think.

hbdgaf

@Seth they don't get sourced or run. they just get parsed.

Avinash Raj

3:50 AM

time??

hbdgaf

why are you installing zenmap anyway? trying to learn nmap switches?

Seth

@hbdgaf I see.. So if a put the exec field of one .desktop to another .desktop would it parse the second you think?

terdon

@Seth yeah, come to think of it they're probably run by the gnome/unity shell so clicking on one is the equivalent of running bash script.sh which does not require that script.sh is executable.

@hbdgaf By gnome shell presumably right?

Seth

@hbdgaf I just happened to use it as an example. Sometimes zenmap is easier than namp too :P

hbdgaf

@Seth that's a recipe for mind-rape. just try it and see. there's no defined behavior for that. even C has undefined behaviors.

even if that worked, i wouldn't depend on it working in the future.

Seth

3:52 AM

ok, won't be trying that then ;)

hbdgaf

also, I finally bought a mouse... I can finally disable this touchpad abomination that is the size of my face below the keyboard.

@terdon i'm not sure what parses .desktop files. if it works on gnome and unity, i would presume gnome-shell and the unity fork of that.

terdon

@hbdgaf Yes, probably just parsed as you said and then the shell launches the right executable.

hbdgaf

makes me wonder if there's a layer for xfce and lxde to understand them now though...

like did canonical bake something like the mime-types recognition layer but for commands/desktops in to dash.

Avinash Raj

@Seth OT askubuntu.com/questions/447478/how-to-restore-a-system

Seth

@terdon OK for U&L? --^

terdon

4:02 AM

@Seth Sure

@Danatela it looks like you should be able to simply extract it, modify the script and recompress it. Try it, make a backup first obviously, so if it breaks you can simply copy the backup file back and be OK again.

Danatela

@terdon OK I will try

hbdgaf

@Seth i used to recommend zenmap to people as a way to learn how to use nmap by defining scans then examining the produced command.

Danatela

@terdon on 13.10 I can't even get into ash

Seth

yep. That's what I was (pretty much) doing. At the time I didn't have time to learn all of nmap. and it's manpage is kinda confusing too.

hbdgaf

sort of like using all the cisco packtracer junk to learn what ios configuration commands are. also, i'm sincerely surprised that there hasn't been a patent war over the whole ios iOS thing.

Seth

4:07 AM

hm I've used packet tracer. It worked.

Yeah the iOS thing threw me at first.

terdon

@Danatela I am just repeating random stuff I found online, I have never tried this so don't think I know what I'm talking about. But since it's just a compressed file, you should be able to do this:

 gunzip -c initramfs-3.10-2-amd64.img | cpio -id

Then make your changes and recreate it with

find . | cpio -o | gzip -c >/boot/initrd.new.img

hbdgaf

@Seth i used it too, but i had a professor that designed his CCNA final around a rack he had. and multi-area OSPF doesn't work in packet tracer... like unsupported at all.

terdon

This is all copied from this thread: unix.com/debian/93348-change-initramfs-hand.html

Danatela

@terdon if you write that as answer, I'll upvote it

hbdgaf

@Seth automatic perfect score for pointing that out AND having the right multi-area OSPF config. he didn't even look at the rest of the config.

there were... mistakes.

terdon

4:10 AM

@Danatela No no no no, not until you confirm it works. That's just from a random thread from 2008 and led to issues for the OP so I'm not putting my name to it until I test it :)

And I can't think of a simple way to test damn it

Ah, yes, hang on

hbdgaf

it installs a vm, or else it gets the hose again.

sorry... silence of the lambs reference.

terdon

@Danatela bugger, sorry, I can't test. I've already broken my VM once today and get a kernel panic. I'll fix it and try and test later.

Danatela

@terdon the first command works =)

terdon

@Danatela Oh, they'll both work, the question is whether the second command will create a viable initramfs. It almost certainly will, I see no reason why not but...

Man, I'm an idiot, I just remembered why my VM won't boot, cause I uninstalled the kernel!

hbdgaf

terdon

4:20 AM

@hbdgaf :) That's what VMs are for. And I just fixed it anyway.

What is that image?

5th element!

Man, first silence of the lambs and now this, I'm getting the feeling we're about the same age.

hbdgaf

Ruby Rod aka Chris Tucker on 5th element.

terdon

Yeah, I remembered

hbdgaf

if you're profile is correct then yes. within one year of each other

terdon

@hbdgaf Yeah, just checked yours, you dated yourself.

hbdgaf

Yeah, I do that pretty consistently.

womp womp

terdon

4:23 AM

@hbdgaf Hmm, that's either Gary Larson or Where the wild things are for me.

hbdgaf

womp womp? that's a sound effect roughly meaning bad joke

terdon

@hbdgaf Ah, I was thinking sound effect yes, but a specific one

Yeah, gotcha :)

4:39 AM

Oooh boy:

0

Q: Computer is totally useless now

Okay, I tried turning on my other computer this morning, And got the following error message. Error no such device edddc179-e42e-4666-8ff3-00566a57908a Entering rescue node grub rescue > - is flashing. I have had nothing but trouble trying to down load and run the live CD for this program. And e...

installation boot dual-boot grub2 hard-drive

And check out the about me in the profile.

hbdgaf

Makes me sad to be a conservative... it really does.

Avinash Raj

@terdon look at this askubuntu.com/q/447420/202806 question. in the first line it contains two fields but in the second record, it contains a single field.

2,4,5 14,9

hbdgaf

Fiscal conservative social liberal, but now we're splitting hairs. Anyway... that question is junk. You think you box is crap mail it to me postage due. It will work for me... promise. It's a bad hard drive, bad HD controller, or a bad cable. Pick one or isolate it.

Avinash Raj

so i downvoted that .

hbdgaf

I snap to a really foul mood when people have HD problems for reasons of my own. Anyway, if it has two failing HDs it's probably the cables or jumpers that got moved around for some as yet undisclosed reason. It's just yeah...no.

terdon

4:48 AM

@AvinashRaj No it doesn't.

@AvinashRaj Ah, yes it does, OK, I see. But why would you downvote? Just ask for clarification.

I added the missing comma between 5 and 14 in your input example. Based on your output, I assume that was a typo, please clarify if it was not. — terdon 8 secs ago

Avinash Raj

i wiil revert back my downvote after the OP's reply for your comment.

hbdgaf

notes to self to have in the future a loose correlation between AvinashRaj and steeldriver

Avinash Raj

does the steel's answer will work, if the lines contains spaces also?

terdon

5:23 AM

@AvinashRaj Yes, his answer is great!

He has given one that addresses the space specifically but I'm convinced the space was just a typo of the OP.

In any case steeldriver's answer is perfect. He's using while, not for, not using cat where it is not needed, quoting all variables, protecting himself from unexpected printf effects. It's excellent all around.

mikeserv

Hello...?

Danatela

@mikeserv hi

mikeserv

@Danatela is Michaelangela here as well?

Danatela

@mikeserv haha

I will consider to ask my brother take this nick

so, I suppose to change some hooks

mikeserv

I think that's more Arch terminology than anything else.

Danatela

5:28 AM

which version of kernel is in Arch now?

3.14?

mikeserv

Whatever you call it, its probably just a shell function.

Yes.

Danatela

so which is the order of executing hooks?

I saw there first is /scripts/init-top

mikeserv

I would suspect that's at the top of the order then.

I really don't know - its implementation dependent and I have no Debian's.

But if you just cat them you should be able to get a feel for what they're about.

Danatela

there is no such directory: /usr/lib/initcpio :(

mikeserv

Yeah. That's Arch.

Their init compiler is called initcpio.

But that's just a shell script too.

All initramfs archives are in cpio format.

Danatela

5:36 AM

aha

did you see the update in the question?

I can't explain more until 12 PM UTC

BTW is my decision right?

I made mdadm hoping it will be faster than just dmraid

mikeserv

They're just shell scripts. Edit them. Yes. You're right ungz | uncpio | edit |recpio |regz

Just keep a copy of an image you know works accessible in your bootloader and screw around with the other to your hearts desire. You'll be fine. You won't learn without trying anyway.

You might be barking up the wrong tree though. It might be you should be looking at udev rules. I kind of wrote the bcache arch initramfs hook for the aur - though really that amounted to just adapting the mdadm hook. Google for Arch's bcache wiki page and read the attached talk page.