Game Development

Jon

12:02 AM

calculator eh?

revisiting the remaining 15x15 levels i have .

that your first winform app?

Chris

1:08 AM

being able to hover over any piece of text in a file and see a tooltip about its function or type or anything... oh man

Joe

why didnt you have that already?

Chris

because I've been using Sublime Text for a year on my Mac lol

but upgraded my PC parts last month, so doing some dev on Windows now

Joe

nice

i usually keep 2 types of editors around

a heavy one and a light one

sublime is my light one right now

but ive been looking at "atom"

looks really good might try it out

Chris

ah yeah, looks cool

Joe

7 hours ago, by Almo

YOU'RE NEVER CLEAR ABOUT ANYTHING GO HOME

~~who were we freaking out at?~~ nvm i dont want to know

AttackingHobo

1:17 AM

@Joe hahahahah

Also my fault for staring that post first

Joe

i have a feeling it was voldemort and its best for the room if he does not return as a topic of conversation

AttackingHobo

You can click on the timestamp to get context. and it was @SpartanDonut who @Almo was directing that towards.

Joe

oh ok good

lol

Pip

@Jon yep

Again:

Sublime <3

SpartanDonut

@Chris dont forget typing the opening parentheses of a method to be shown all the parameters with the current parameter bolded

Chris

1:28 AM

@SpartanDonut thanks, yeah that comes in handy too

Almo

2:16 AM

@AttackingHobo Todders and I have an understanding that anything we type in all caps is meant in jest

Almo

2:26 AM

@IcyDefiance you there?

Icy Defiance

mhm

Almo

got time for one game man

Icy Defiance

riot pushed the new map to blind and draft normals, but not ranked yet :'(

Almo

:D

Icy Defiance

up to you which we play

Almo

2:29 AM

i'm up for wahtever

Icy Defiance

wrong answer!

Serial

2:44 AM

@Pip Working with WinForms I see

hows it going

Joe

6:17 AM

went out to a meetup the other day and met one of the developers at Ionic... saw his demo and i decided i wanted to learn some of the framework... so I started playing with something, inspired by candy box

so far im digging it.. but now its time for bed...

Chris

6:39 AM

hehehe

Jon

12:25 PM

What is a good idea for a reverse game mechanic

user92578

Do you guys know if I could start spotify on my latpot, and use the speakers in my PC to play the audio?

user92578

so I guess something like sharing an audio device?

Jon

ehhhwhat?

user92578

So I could lay on my bed, reading to my exams, and choose the songs from my laptop, but the sound would play from the speakers of my PC

Jon

oh

yeah, just use remote desktop

or write your own network interface

writing your own is way more fun, but time consuming

user92578

12:35 PM

is it installed default on windows?

Jon

yeah

mstsc

in cmd line

if it doesn't connect,you will need to check the system settings, in control panel

user92578

So I type in the name of my laptop?

Jon

name or ip

internal ip

user92578

whats that from ipconfig?

Jon

ipconfig yeah

192.168

user92578

12:38 PM

which machine should I do this on?

Jon

the server ip

you may need to enable remote sharing in system settings, on the server

user92578

so do I use mstsc on my laptop or the PC?

user92578

laptop?

Jon

yeah, the client

mstsc is remote client

the server is built into windows

imdb.com/title/tt0816692

3 hour long movie

user92578

not working...

user92578

12:51 PM

I have enabled the remote access from both machines

BlueBug

1:22 PM

giant.gfycat.com/UntimelyCarefreeIguana.webm

it's orange sheep walking around and eatting green grass.

Almo

2:35 PM

@Jon :( no answer at Unity Answers

Jon

i am actually quite stunned

Almo

yeah surprises me as well

I was thinking I wanted to know that answer too, but I just got switched to another project so I won't be touching droid yet after all

Jon

it is a pretty significant bug

I can't believe no one seems to have found this

Almo

Agreed

Jon

the only workaround I can think of, is having a setting in the game, to disable auto rotate

which is stupid, becuase the phone operating system should override that..

Pip

2:49 PM

@Serial pretty well, actually!

finishing up my calculator today, I think

Jon

If I was Obama, this bug would already be fixed

to calculate what?

Pip

just a basic 4-function one, but still

Jon

ALSO, this illustrates the bullshit issues with a closed source system

I can't fix this myself

without doing something ridiculous anyways

Pip

lol

Jon

open source frameworks and engines

its just the right thing to do

SpartanDonut

2:53 PM

Go UE4 then :P

Jon

its a bloated 2d engine

and it isn't really ready for mobile

SpartanDonut

Well you know what they say, beggars can't be choosers.

Jon

but i can be cheap

SpartanDonut

Certainly

Jon

well do you want to know the funniest thing?

the most expensive engine is actually monogame

SpartanDonut

2:56 PM

Because of the whole Xamarin requirement?

Jon

Everyone seems to think monogame is free, but that is until you want to put your game on mobile

SpartanDonut

Doesn't make monogame not free

Jon

i agree

however, the tout the support on their site

SpartanDonut

Right. I get what you're saying.

Jon

I'm just saying it is hard to find the information you need to know

Try to compile your monogame to android

there is so much conflicting information, it is almost impossible to figure out how to properly do it without wasting a good chunk of time

Pip

3:00 PM

mhm

Jon

Then when you finally get the environment set up, it says you need a license to compile

you could probably reverse engineer the check somehow

Pip

yep

user92578

3:32 PM

I'm so going to fail my filosophy exam tomorrow

user92578

also I spent like an hour of setting up a remote desktop connection for a remote distance of one and a half meter

SpartanDonut

I'm tired

user92578

^^

user92578

I'll try to get sometime free for dev tomorrow

user92578

so I might have that going for me, which is nice

SpartanDonut

3:47 PM

I'm so glad holidays are coming up

I'd like a break

AttackingHobo

@Tyyppi_77 just use teamviewer, man.

SpartanDonut

4:31 PM

This looks like a good place to learn the basics of F# - tryfsharp.org/Learn

Lokkij

Yep, that site's pretty good.

SpartanDonut

Do a lot of functional programming or were you just curious about it like I am?

Lokkij

Just curious - it's weird but interesting

SpartanDonut

4:58 PM

So this is pretty cool - shadertoy.com/view/lsSXzD

belgin

5:49 PM

I did it! Variable line thickness in D3D without shaders. The bad part is you have to transform the line ends manually. Also, it's pretty slow.

Joe

@SpartanDonut daamn awesome

Wardy

6:04 PM

@SpartanDonut mind blown

SpartanDonut

I know jack about shaders but I know they weren't made to do that

BlueBug

6:32 PM

for A* pathfinding, I have a bool array that I store which ones are already added to "open list" and which ones are yet to be added to "open list"

Lokkij

Why a bool[]? Why not a Node[]?

BlueBug

the size of array is about 100x100. After each time I use this bool array for "pathfinding", I reset the array by setting all the elements to false

I mean, I do have Node[] in fact, yes.

Lokkij

Oh okay.

BlueBug

I thought that bool was rather an easier way for me to explain, but I do have nodes in which says whether they had been added to open list or not.

Isn't it rather daunting task to "reset" them every time I search path? I mean I have like 200+ instances in the world and they all do this.

My way, resetting the whole thing over and over again, doesn't look like the "correct way" to do this, surely I must be doing something wrong.

Lokkij

My poor attempt used a List<Node> openList instead of setting a property on the nodes.

BlueBug

6:36 PM

Here is the image for what I am doing : giant.gfycat.com/UntimelyCarefreeIguana.webm

I indeed have List<Node>.

It's just when it comes to checking whether my Node is in the openList, I just look at the node than checking every element in the list.

Lokkij

So when you add a Node to the open list, you just do openList.Add(theNode) and when the node has been 'processed' you do openList.Remove(theNode)?

BlueBug

but this approach led me in need of "resetting" the whole array once I finish searching.

Lokkij

Because then the list will be (mostly?) empty once you're done.

AttackingHobo

For stuff like this I like using a static list of elements, and only mark them active or inactive. never shuffling, never adding, and never removing elements

avoids a ton of cache thrashing issues, and gc issues

BlueBug

#Lokkij They are not necessarily all empty when search is done, ~~you~~ I, most of the times, reach to the goal before exhausting all the nodes in the open list. (which was my case)

Lokkij

6:41 PM

@BlueBug Hmm, yeah. My pathfinding happened on a very small scale so I never had issues with that.

BlueBug

@AttackingHobo You simply avoid using "adding" "removing"? how could that be? if you cannot have list to store elements to remember which ones are "open" then you cannot go back and process ones that had been "openlist nodes" I am confused.

I am looking at the term "static list of elements". I am thinking of static List<Node>, how could static list help in this situation?

AttackingHobo

Well the data in each element can change, just not adding or moving the objects in the list. I'm not exactly sure about some of the terms you are using though. I haven't done too much pathfinding

user4704

@BlueBug You want to keep as much data fixed as possible.

AttackingHobo

and not "static" like that

user4704

A-star is not fast, and so you want to make as many performance optimizations as you can (once you get it working).

AttackingHobo

6:47 PM

Processors love serial data that can be easily cached

lists with dynamic elements don't mesh well with performance

user4704

A big bottleneck for the algorithm is adding and removing to lists; if you can avoid that, you can improve performance.

AttackingHobo

@BlueBug Mainly I've used this kind of lists for object pools. Most object pools that I've seen before constantly move things around in different lists. I just had one list that I processed serially, and skipped over "dead" elements, and stopped processing once I've reached the last alive element

spawning and deleting thousands of bullets per second with the memory used not changing one byte is pretty fun

BlueBug

ohohohohhoh just skip over "dead" elements ok that sounds cool. If I mark nodes in my list as "dead node" then I won't have to remove them, (though the list will increase in size as I cna't remove)

"A big bottleneck for the algorithm is adding and removing to lists" I can take care of "removing" part then... but still I can't deal with "adding to list"

AttackingHobo

Make a large list, and fill it with dead elements

and start marking ones alive, and filling in the correct data that you need

user4704

Yes you can, you know the search space and thus the upper bound.

BlueBug

6:54 PM

really really large list with all dead elements! And yes I ca set the upper bound! :D

user4704

You can also avoid using a list, since a list is a slow structure for the operation. Many people use priority queues.

user4704

Which don't solve the cache/"adding" problem but can help searching.

user4704

Etc.

user4704

But focus on making it work first.

BlueBug

the whole pathfinding does work yes, this is what I have so far.

AttackingHobo

6:56 PM

@BlueBug to be honest, that looks cool, but I have no idea what is happening.

BlueBug

priority queues, I rarely used them. I am super happy because I think I know what I need to do; set upper bounds, just mark them "dead" instead of removing from the array(or list)

#AttackingHobo the orange ones are sheep(I mean, they are supposed to be) and green is grass,food. Orange sheep are looking for food in the world.

AttackingHobo

I don't see any obstacles in there. Not really sure whats goin on.

BlueBug

xD no there aren't any obstacles. I am thinking something like Sim; simulation where your sims walk around and do stuff.

AttackingHobo

Don't know why you need a* then

BlueBug

Ty bunch <3 <3 XOXO @JoshPetrie @AttackingHobo And also @Lokkij

AttackingHobo

6:59 PM

just have them go directly toward the nearest food source

a* is useful when there are multiple possible paths

put some walls or cliffs or soemthing blocking them

user4704

yea

BlueBug

I need A* for path finding; each orange needs a path to go to green, then eat. I want to have obstacles like rockes walls, and cliff, as you said!

user4704

you often don't want A* to be your only path-finding anyway. It scales poorly.

AttackingHobo

@BlueBug also if your map is static you can precalculate stuff

BlueBug

For now, A* is the only algorithm I know :( I must teach myself more on this topic.

AttackingHobo

7:01 PM

Whats your target platform?

BlueBug

PC

AttackingHobo

How much ram does your target system have?

BlueBug

Oh man... I am yet to plan that far ahead.

but for now, I am aimming to have it run smoothly on my computer; my computer has poor cpu and ok ram and alright gpu.

so for me, it is, "well if it runs well on my computer, then it ought to run better on other computers"

AttackingHobo

Well pretty much you can calculate how to get to certain areas from certain areas, save that data and look it up later

BlueBug

I remember Mick commenting that I have shitty CPU

AttackingHobo

7:05 PM

Depending on how dense your lookups are, and how big your map is, it might become memory heavy, but I find memory heavy is better than cpu heavy

BlueBug

"memory heavy is better than cpu heavy" noted.

AttackingHobo

But depends on your platform

BlueBug

"...but depends on your platform".... wait.... stops noting Hmmm.

AttackingHobo

mobile is a bit on the opposite, you generally don't have a lot of memory, but can have some surprisingly fast cpus.

BlueBug

oh... ok that seems to make sense, yeah. ( don't know a lot about mobile's ram but that little thing surely can't have my desktop's large ram)

(but mobile devices being sophisticated enough to do fancy 3D and other cool things, I suppose)

user4704

7:10 PM

yea they have surprisingly decent gpu power as well

user4704

but still low ram

Lokkij

Just don't optimize prematurely. It's good to plan ahead, but don't spend a lot of time optimizing your code now even though you don't know whether you need the optimization.

AttackingHobo

@Lokkij thats the reason we need crazy powerful cpus and crazy amounts of ram to even do the simplists of tasks that could be done quicker with 1/1000th of the power years ago

Setting up a game engine to not GC is nearly always good

BlueBug

aye aye, for now me is just taking mental notes, "priority queue, dead elements, skipping dead elements, predetermined path and also upperbounds array" this conversation will help me greatly in close future! me will, for now, work more on Sims.

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