Game Development

If I have a renderer class, and renderer relies on something like a texturebank class, but all renderers share the same texturebank, how can I avoid using a singleton for texturebank?

Renderers take the TextureBank as a parameter, and Renderers are created by a createNewRenderer function which creates a new Renderer based on the target platform. That way I can compile with a different renderer.

How do I not use a singleton to create the TextureBank?

Is "singletons are evil 100% of the time" just a myth? Or is there always a better way?

Almo

@AidanMueller this is an opinion thing

I think Singletons are ok. Josh does not.

doppelgreener

@AidanMueller definitely just a very strong opinion.

Alexandre Vaillancourt

@AidanMueller It's a myth.

Almo

Icy says "Just use a static class"

Be aware of the potential complications of using global information, and be wary

Icy Defiance

2:36 AM

I have a blog post on this. It's my only blog post and it's shit, but it has examples.

icydev.net/when-to-use-singletons

you should be able to always use static instead of a singleton

Alexandre Vaillancourt

It really depends on how you use it.

Aidan Mueller

But there isn't anything that really is forcing me to only allow one instance of TextureBank to exist, it's just that all instances will likely be using the same instance of TextureBank.

I don't know if this is technically a singleton or not:

Renderer *createNewRenderer();

// Implementation
Renderer *createNewRenderer()
{
    static TextureBank bnk;
    return new OpenGLRenderer(bnk);
}

I suppose it technically isn't, but it still feels kind of weird.

OK. I'll just use this technique. This only makes up a small part of my code. I think any porting in the future will be easy as long as I abstract the things that will be used most often.

Alexandre Vaillancourt

TextureBank bnk will be used as a singleton when you use createNewRenderer...

Almo

it's not a singleton

it's a means of getting global access

Alexandre Vaillancourt

...but it's not a singleton.

Almo

2:45 AM

singletons hide the pointer inside a class behind an accessor

and the accessor checks if it exists, if not it makes it and passes it out

Aidan Mueller

Why do people hate globals?

I don't really use them, but still?

Alexandre Vaillancourt

Yeah, singletons make sure that there is only one instance. Your code does not do that.

Almo

Globals are a great way to make unmaintainable code

used carefully, they can be fine. (like javascript)

Aidan Mueller

But what if I have code like this:

Alexandre Vaillancourt

You don't know how globals are being used, and from where...

MickLH

2:47 AM

@Almo Your giving of too much credit to globals has spawned me in wrath mode, hello

Almo

hahaha

I use a global data objects in my games

MickLH

Good job man, the first step is admitting it

Almo

they hold stuff like the soundeffect player, chosen skill level, sprite animations.

Aidan Mueller

bool hasInitialized = false;

void initThing()
{
// Initing things here
hasInitialized = true;
}

bool hasThingInitialized()
{
return hasInitialized;
}

TheMuffinCoder

lol saw this online, looked pretty cool

Aidan Mueller

2:48 AM

Would that still be a bad use of globals?

If "thing" only needs to be initialized once in a program (kind of like loading opengl extensions), is it still bad to use globals?

Alexandre Vaillancourt

@AidanMueller Well, if anyone can change hasInitializsed, yes, it is bad ;)

Aidan Mueller

But how else would you do it?

MickLH

ok @AidanMueller let me make a metaphor from this. Lets say I have a horse, but instead of putting it in a barn I bury it deep underground, slice out some of the internal organs and pipe the blood across town where the organs are. Following?

Lets say that horse is a global variable... Is this a good use of a horse?

Even if the horse is a good runner?

Aidan Mueller

@MickLH That sounds Gitted.

MickLH

...If you could hear my physical utterances in response you would clearly not think the same thing, as your scale for recognizing something which "sounds Gitted" would be far outside the range necessary for that

I just want to be clear, I have no problem with global variables.

Almo

2:53 AM

@jon i'll try this

assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/38736

Aidan Mueller

But what I'm saying, is why would you want to cut poor Mr. Horse up when you could just stick him in a barn?

MickLH

And what I'm saying, is that.

you know.. if you drop me into a pile of fun I might roll around in it and make fun angels

Aidan Mueller

But how is that on that same level of using globals?

MickLH

it's a direct metaphor

Alexandre Vaillancourt

@AidanMueller Like this:

Almo

2:54 AM

it's not. he's one of the ones who hates globals

Alexandre Vaillancourt

MgrOpenGL
{
public:
  static MgrOpenGl& GetInstance()
  {
    static MgrOpenGl* instance = new MgrOpenGl();
    return *instance;
  }

  void initThing()
  {
    if( mIsInitDone )
      return;

    // init things
    mIsInitDone = true;
  }

private:
  MgrOpenGl() :mIsInitDone(false) {}

  bool mIsInitDone;
}

MickLH

hahahahaha yesss

Guys programming is solved, replace all your globals with singletons for the win and great fortune

Alexandre Vaillancourt

@MickLH ;)

I generally have one singleton that holds all the other stuff that I want unique :P

MickLH

I actually never get tired of the "Singleton: Perfect solution to everything? Or precise cause of all problems?" debate

Aidan Mueller

Singletons have always seemed kind of weird to me, but anytime I need one, I'm never sure how else to do it.

MickLH

2:57 AM

/meme "What if I told you" that global variables are just fields of the global namespace singleton?

Aidan Mueller

It's like you know you're walking through a mine field, but you don't know any other way to get out of <insert place that is worse than a mine field>.

Alexandre Vaillancourt

I have to go, unfortunately!

MickLH

Enjoy life good and great fortune of luck and properings!

@AidanMueller This is actually what the horse is for

Aidan Mueller

So that the horse steps on the mine instead?

MickLH

more or less, except it's already cut up so you just throw the chunks in a line

Aidan Mueller

3:01 AM

The mine field is using either singletons or globals, and <place worse than mine field> is not writing the program at all.

MickLH

well it's enough to test a few steps ahead and just take cover as you check the next step, then you can traverse a minefield of O(n) size with only O(1) horse gibs so is it really so bad?

maybe some critical details in case anyone is ever actually traversing a minefield using only limited horse gibs... you have to go in a perfectly straight line and it's technically a las vegas algorithm because you're gambling based on 3 random points being on a line having probability zero

Aidan Mueller

@MickLH What things have helped you the most with becoming a better programmer?

Almo

3:22 AM

Just being fucking smart as hell, I think.

:)

(him i mean)

Aidan Mueller

3:38 AM

Maybe I should just make my game, and figure out what's wrong with it.

Pip

Vector images are hard to render

And with that, I go to bed

Night!

MickLH

4:15 AM

@AidanMueller Definitely deciding to have that 2nd glass of juice while watching the pokemon movie as a kid. No question about it.

Shotgun Ninja

@MickLH You too?

Aidan Mueller

Great. Thanks!

Now would you mind telling me which pokemon movie it was?

MickLH

Oh don't be silly

Aidan Mueller

And perhaps glass of juice?

:D

MickLH

Obviously the original...

Shotgun Ninja

4:17 AM

and obviously grape

Aidan Mueller

Oh, right.

OK. I better get started ASAP!

MickLH

Yes! Focus on that! and don't trust anyone who tries to say selling my soul to the devil in exchange for superhuman programming skill could have anything to do with it

Because they are crazy, that is not a thing. Otherwise I'd do it.

Shotgun Ninja

Note to self: Becoming a better programmer checklist
* Watch Pokemon Movie
* Second glass of grape juice
* Something about selling soul to devil for programming skill

Gotcha

MickLH

You know actually... I think that about sums it up succinctly, if by "sums it up succinctly" one is making a loose metaphor about the self-referential nature of the allegorical subtext implied in some limited subset of the nonsensical humor

Or in decipherable terms: Not taking myself too seriously, just enjoying time spent and putting real time into practicing was the most helpful I think

Aidan Mueller

I guess programming is a bit like learning languages then. If you want to learn a language, reading a grammar book will not help you unless you already have learned a bit of the language. That is, you really just have to practice the language. You can't study your way to fluency.

* Real language, not computer language. Although it applies there too.

MickLH

4:31 AM

Now that you've accepted that train of thought, and hopefully invested somewhat into that route of understanding, I can admit that I said "was" because it was... until I turned 1337. Now that I'm uber leet haxor though, the manual provides more "better" every day than I ever imagined one person could amass in a lifetime

Aidan Mueller

I'm still going to do that pokemon thing though :P

MickLH

pokemon is the manual for life, lets be honest

Aidan Mueller

I would like to know why an ODT is more than twice the size of the same document stored as a docx.

@MickLH How do you go about abstracting an opengl renderer with classes, when opengl functions do not use classes?

MickLH

You meditate and attain gangster level: Mario.

(This is where you begin to stomp out all your rival goons to death and hit up every lick in their hood for coins and weapons because you're pissed about a bitch. It all comes naturally at this point.)

Aidan Mueller

...I'll just figure this one out on my own.

MickLH

4:43 AM

lol I have a real difficulty with seriousing sometimes

I mean sure "just be serious" because "just do it" but bleh... Is that gonna make me enjoy this moment of life more?

Aidan Mueller

Well I did think it was funny, so that's good I suppose.

Doesn't really solve problems, but...

Makes the problems feel less bad.

Shotgun Ninja

7:03 AM

woo, big long conversation about software design for my game

Chris

8:57 AM

aws.amazon.com/lumberyard

Evil Tak

9:53 AM

@Chris Looks very interesting indeed.

Jon

10:36 AM

@Almo cool balls

user92578

I wonder if they've made integrating services that aren't theirs painful

Jon

10:53 AM

damn unity

so i broke stylus support on android...

Does anyone here have a Galaxy Note with an SPen?

Jon

11:47 AM

Really annoyed.... there is this bug that cuts off the lower portion of my screen (where the andriod menu appears)

Seems to be because of the fucken Unity Splash too

like it changes resolutions or something

PearsonArtPhoto

12:02 PM

The noise in your procedurally generated world is Perlin noise, right?

Jon

no

currently it is using a Simplex generator

doesn't really matter what noise type you use -- however with 4D noise simplex is much much faster than traditional perlin

However.. fucken Ken patented simplex.. so the fucken algorithm can get you sued

PearsonArtPhoto

Hmmm...

I have an idea how to make a 2D tileable map using a slightly modified Perlin noise algorithm, but I was trying to decide if it was even the right direction before I tried anything.

Jon

go for it

holy fuck this is frustrating

PearsonArtPhoto

Teaching users how to play your game: kd7uiy.com/2016/02/teaching-users-how-to-play-your-game.html

Jon

12:23 PM

So... Unity Splash seems to be fucking up my game... nothing I can do about it

Alexandre Vaillancourt

Good morning!

Jon

sup

Alexandre Vaillancourt

12:50 PM

OpenGL is hard.

Ali.S

@AlexandreVaillancourt nah it's not hard... it's just impossible :P

Alexandre Vaillancourt

Hahaha :P

I hope not!

I should probably don't care and wait for Vulkan :P

PearsonArtPhoto

I think I'm understanding OpenGL better now that I understand meshes better, but I still need to go back to OpenGL and see if that proves true.

Jon

@Almo I had to update my Unity to latest.

Not sure if it will mess with the build process on your end

Almo

1:05 PM

@AlexandreVaillancourt YES

@Jon what was the problem?

and I'll download the latest into a seperate folder so it doesn't fuck up Cognizer tonight

Jon

stupid cut off glitch with the unity splash

Almo

hahah morons

Jon

i reproduced it every single time -- only way to stop it was to redraw the screen

(tilt and retilt back)

Almo

ok.

if the rendering is fixed so still high FPS on iOS, we'll be good to go

Jon

so a workaround... make the main menu rotate around once

lol

this is on android

I was out promoting the android build last night

hasn't gotten much attention

Almo

1:08 PM

having met some unity guys now, I have to add the caveat that they really do mean well. They seem to have QA problems.

anyway gotta go. talk later

Jon

k

i'm also adding another option.. lol sorry

Alexandre Vaillancourt

@Almo I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this :P

Jon

1:25 PM

user92578

cool!

Jon

jgallant.com/Prototype003/Prototype003.html

its old

holy shit

WindowsKey + G

on Windows 10 -- you can screen record built in

PearsonArtPhoto

All I have to say about Unity is it is a whole lot easier and better than writing my own game engine...

Wow, no idea about that... Will have to give it a go when I use my Windows 10 machine...

Almo

1:49 PM

@Jon ITunes does not let you submit the same version number twice. So we may end up with them out of sync from android if you keep adding stuff. :) I set this one to 1.0, because I expected there would be a change

but once you're sure, I'll set it to 1.13

user92578

Added icons to the file list view

Almo

cool

Almo

2:01 PM

at the very least, if they get out of sync, I'll keep notes about which version is which.

Jon

Picross Touch 1.22

►

Alexandre Vaillancourt

@Jon You should add a timer in there, and a label with the "best time" for this puzzle

Jon

yeah, i thought about the timer before

It would add to the game..

Alexandre Vaillancourt

2:20 PM

What's the difference between the free and the not free version?

Almo

MOAR PUZZLS

Alexandre Vaillancourt

All right!

Jon

2:32 PM

i have some codes if you want the full version

Almo

lock block option good idea

Alexandre Vaillancourt

Lol, I'll buy it no worries, it's not 1.10$ that's going to throw me out on the street :P

Almo

$1.10 for a fun game is peanuts

Jon

I'm gonna try to get it on steam

Almo

cool

if you're ok with a super bargain style, you could add puzzles periodically without charging.

simpler interface, more reason for people to upgrade

just a thought

Alexandre Vaillancourt

2:38 PM

PUZZLE OF THE DAY!

Almo

I did that with my minesweeper mutant

monday easy, sunday hard.

continuum between

man I really should do my Tetris mutant again

i hate having all these great concepts hanging around that need to be done with a troughput of about one a year.

Jon

i'm not sure how the PC version should play

some people have touch devices

Almo

eye-tracking

user92578

lol

Jon

with a mouse, you can right click to place a X, left click to place a tile

but then, if you do touch, that doesn't work anymore, since a leftclick is also considered a touch

user92578

2:42 PM

I think I'll give level thumbnail generation a go today

user92578

I might need to figure out a larger-scheme level metadata system first

Almo

You can detect the difference, right? If OnMouseDown is valid but no touches are reported, that's mouse. Check that on the menu where left clicks are required

if thye're switching between mouse and touch... tell them to screw off

;)

Jon

you are right

i could do both

$110

holy fuck.. that is pretty expensive

PearsonArtPhoto

3:05 PM

For what?

Jon

to submit a game to greenlight

Shotgun Ninja

that's nothing

how much does it take to buy a computer on which to make said game?

hell, I go to Walmart for groceries and spend more than that

#realprogrammingjob

Almo

I think if you actually got greenlit, you'd make that $110 back.

keeps out the riff-raff.

Shotgun Ninja

Hey!

I resemble that remark

user92578

Oh right greenlight costs

user92578

3:13 PM

I had already forgotten that

user92578

that's going to be like the first real gamedev investment I'll make

Jon

steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=92941244

can you see that?

Shotgun Ninja

user92578

Yes

Almo

:D

Jon

3:14 PM

doesn't come up in the searches..

Almo

@Jon can see yes

user92578

Really cool!

Almo

@jon i can build OSX for you...

DarkHyudrA

@Jon maybe because it's new, or need some more upvotes before reaching the public

user92578

Didn't greenlight fee use to be 100$?

Almo

3:16 PM

canadain

user92578

also what's going on with that posted date:

user92578

Almo

usd/cad conversion issues

user92578

oh

Shotgun Ninja

yeah, posted Aug 2012?

user92578

3:16 PM

I wonder what's the euro cost

user92578

@Jon want to get this starred?

Jon

I posted a game before it cost

So I just used that

deleted all the comments and stuff

Kevin van der Velden

@Tyyppi_77 90.00

user92578

aight, that I can manage once it's time

Almo

hahaha

Jon

3:17 PM

But yeah, star it , get it greenlit

user92578

oh smart :D

user92578

you getting lit would give me a lot of hope for the future, even tough our games are really different

Almo

tyyppi, i think your game could get greenlit.

it looks fun

user92578

yeah I might have a shot there

Jon

heh, funny that I was able to just rebrand that old game

DarkHyudrA

3:22 PM

OK so I gave a try at drawing my stuff for my game, and this is the result of the playable character
it lacks some details as AA like on his belt, but it's 90% done

imgur.com/lj69WP6

user92578

looks good

user92578

really tiny tough

Almo

once cognizer is out ios/droid, i'll be trying for steam

user92578

steam all the things!

DarkHyudrA

yeah, the idea is to make small things

maybe if the player chooses to play fullscreen I do a 2x scale though

user92578

3:23 PM

aight, okay

user92578

My smallest scaling is currently 3x

Shotgun Ninja

Oh goody

kotaku.com/…

> twitch chat integration

so I guess amazon liked TPP?

PearsonArtPhoto

3:38 PM

Managed to make my first mesh at long last...

Note that this is only the very start of my terrain generation process, but it kind of looks cool so far. I'm just using purely random noise for now.

Jon

4:11 PM

made a guy change his 4 star to a 5 star

he requested a feature in his comment, i gave it to him, and he changed it to 5 stars, hehe

user92578

Any ideas on how I should create my level thumbnails?

user92578

Create a proper UI that allows the user to select an area?

PearsonArtPhoto

I had a guy who had a bug on a very specific device, which I fixed quickly, went from a 1 to 5 star review:-)

user92578

Just a rendertexture with the whole level on level save?

user92578

Take "screenshots" without the UI every now and then?

user92578

4:13 PM

I feel like the first one requires the most work, as I'd need to setup some UI stuff to that

user92578

However that would also be the most usable

user4704

@Tyyppi_77 I wouldn't do it with the whole level, per se.

user92578

Yeah that's not actually a great idea

user4704

Create a level object that is a "thumbnail target," and take a screenshot of a reasonable size centered on that otherwise-invisible object.

user4704

That lets you pick the interesting part of the level as the thumbnail.

user92578

4:15 PM

Oh yeah, that sounds good and uses a system that I already have implemented

user92578

thanks!

Noctrine

So. has anyone played with Lumberyard yet?

user4704

No. Looks like junk.

user4704

:D

Alexandre Vaillancourt

Well, they want to sell hosting!

user4704

4:21 PM

It's based on a one-time fork of an (old) CryEngine build. I found CryEngine lackluster at best, and I don't see a ton of value in what Amazon is trying to add.

Alexandre Vaillancourt

Here! Candies! And, by the way, I have this diabetes apparatus for sale

Noctrine

I imagine it's going to be the new hotness in trying to make mmo style games.

user4704

I imagine somebody will try.

user4704

I'll watch the flailing with amusement :)

PearsonArtPhoto

gdcvault.com/play/1015541/How-I-Got-My-Mom How I got my Mom to Play Through Plants vs Zombies.

Almo

4:27 PM

CryEngine was a bad choice, in my opinion.

PearsonArtPhoto

@Jon: I realize that the way that I'm thinking about wrapping a world, while it would work, is pretty limiting. The algorithm you propose, while more computationally intense, is a lot more extensible. Still, I learned something trying to prove that.

Almo

I only looked over a level designer's shoulder, and i wasn't impressed.

maybe I'd change my mind if i worked with it

Jon

yep.

if you are looking to only wrap on 1 axis, you can still stick to 3D noise

PearsonArtPhoto

Basically the idea I had was to wrap the vector grid when creating Perlin noise.

You can use 2D noise and wrap, but you are limited to integer numbers of iterations, which would make it look less real.

I'm still going to try it, because why not, but I think it's going to look really bad...

I'm in this to learn more than anything, and often failure teaches more than success.

MickLH

4:57 PM

@Almo lol I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt this

I was so disappointed with (makes-me-)CryEngine that when I saw lumberyard is a 10 gig download I thought "not worth the bandwidth". I thought the point of advanced adaptive algorithms for everything was to automate everything.

Almo

@MickLH :)

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