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4:01 AM
@KrisGruttemeyer can't sleep?
 
@swasheck Month end processing. Just checking on things, last month wasn't so smooth with the changes that were made.
What about you? Burning the midnight oil?
 
quarter-end processing. server has been crapping the bed since last wednesday
DBAs are online to narrate the carnage because we can't do much about it
 
Define 'crapping the bed'
 
sudden cratering of performance
missing slas
whoah! espn redesign
 
Ahhhh, yup that encompasses crapping the bed for sure.
Oh what in the actual... That's completely different.
I need an adult
 
4:06 AM
@KrisGruttemeyer what's up?
 
the espn redesign
ha
 
ah. yeah. so we have this oldish server
and it's running an 8TB data warehouse
 
8TB is decent size for something you consider oldish
 
sudden performance degradation ... generally explicable with poor ad-hoc query patterns by Cognos developers and users
 
Oh man, is this why you were talking about IBM the other day?
 
4:08 AM
reluctance by those devs to actually change their ways and admit their foolery
yeah
 
What kind of specs are we talking on the box?
 
2x6 AMD CPU (24 logical cores), 256GB RAM ... 23 mount points (partitioned) to a hitachi vsp SAN
 
Our DW gets hammered by BAs all the time. They don't write very good queries sometimes. It's grossly overpowered but it withstands some pretty nasty abuse.
 
we're ramping up hardware and migrating to 2014 but that wont happen until may
cognos is the worst t-sql writer i've ever seen
 
I struggle to fully keep up with our main production server's needs as I'm the only SQL DBA. It's nice that it can color in the corner by itself without me having to watch it constantly
Worse than EF or LINQ?
 
4:14 AM
i have 20-page queries that get 42GB memory grants
 
Mother of god...
 
she laughs at us regularly
 
Our .NET guys have started to tinker with EF, a piece of me died inside the first time I saw it running in production.
If Cognos is worse than that, I have no desire to be within 50 miles of it.
Jumping off for the night, talk to ya tomorrow.
 
 
4 hours later…
8:23 AM
@KrisGruttemeyer A company I used to work for thought EF was the way forward for a new web app a couple of years ago. They're now going through and removing it all.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:37 AM
Hi please help me in a issue
I'm facing an error when importing oracle dump file in fedora using oracle express 11g
 
 
3 hours later…
12:22 PM
I see that Brent O and company are trying to give us all an epileptic seizure with their site today.
 
they confused April 1st 2015 with April 1st 1995
 
I quite like the pink on black look..
 
@KrisGruttemeyer my eyes, my poor eyes
 
12:39 PM
@KrisGruttemeyer I'll send you the hospital bills for my seizure
 
@Lamak Not me, send that to Brent, haha!
@bluefeet Is there blood still coming out? ha
Is it bad that 'get down on it' by kool and the gang started playing in my head when i looked this morning?
 
Ok, this one is pretty good if you know the background: sqlstudies.com/2015/04/01/microsoft-buys-the-dictionary
 
1:19 PM
Postgres rewind to the future: andreas.scherbaum.la/blog/archives/…
 
I still can't believe the Amazon Dash is real
 
JNK
1:36 PM
@MarkSinkinson me either
I told my wife I thought it was an elaborate prank
xkcd is pretty great today tho
 
1:51 PM
 
@billinkc did you send him your picture?
 
that my drawing of the Cap'n Crunch Kraken
 
I thought it was a self portrait
 
I only wish I had that many appendages
My Fight Club dream fight would be with Lord Vishnu
 
2:32 PM
I'm not going to flag it but please down-vote
0
A: Table Value optional parameter

Stuart AinsworthMy Google-Fu found this link: http://datazulu.com/blog/post/table-valued-parameters-and-null.aspx

And up-vote this one:
7
A: Table Value optional parameter

Chuck PinkertTable-Valued parameters always have an implicit value of an empty table. So you can actually call that procedure without any parameters and it would execute but the table would be empty. So it doesn't really make sense to label a table-value parameter with a default value. Remove the "=null", ch...

 
done
 
@AaronBertrand you could flag it as NAA
I deleted it
 
@bluefeet I thought that was frowned upon, especially when accepted
But thank you for deleting
 
@AaronBertrand that's a crap answer. The link was broken as well
 
aaaand M.ali going for the lowest hanging fruit again
Is that where you draw a line? No join no question :) — M.Ali 1 min ago
 
2:34 PM
we'll delete that
 
2:52 PM
I knew it, now this guy must be thinking that I downvoted him. And this time it wasn't even me
awww bless did I hurt someone's feelings ? — M.Ali 1 min ago
 
Now he knows that if you did, you weren't alone ;)
 
ha, well said
 
IT WAS ME. IT WAS ALWAYS ME! LEXMARK WAS THE PATSY!
 
anyone in here know an MS PFE named John Kauffman?
 
3:19 PM
@zane why are you making a website?
 
So I can start blogging.
 
oh. yay!
 
@Zane YYYYYYEEEEEEEEEESSSSS!
!
 
Yeah I'll write something when I get home.
 
Why is oneboxing broken
 
3:21 PM
That was a surprisingly small image of Tony the Tiger.
 
@Zane You can write about how you are speaking at Madison and talk a little about the content of your presentation.
 
@AaronBertrand much better.
 
(or you can do something more interesting, but if you want something easy to put out there...)
 
@mmarie There's a few things I'd like to put up.
 
3:24 PM
@AaronBertrand do you know the optimizer timeout default?
 
I'll probably do something about Madison next week before I go.
@swasheck is it a default or does it vary?
 
@swasheck I think it's a search depth (or something like that) not an amount of time.
 
@JamesLupolt ah. thanks
 
I've heard Conor Cunningham explain it further but can't find anything documented anywhere.
 
@swasheck off top of head, no, and I don't think it's an explicit amount of time for every single case.
 
3:32 PM
I seem to recall the time it can spend varies from query to query. Citation needed
 
I'm sure Paul knows the details.
 
A statement that is almost always true.
 
@AaronBertrand pffft, what does that guy know? ;-)
 
hokay
 
@Lamak you are getting so sassy
 
3:40 PM
I know. Some of SO users are getting on my nerves
 
@Lamak hey it only took you a couple of years longer than me
 
I'm slower than you
 
@swasheck Are you asking what the condition is for a query plan to have an early termination reason of "TimeOut", or something else. Also, why.
 
@PaulWhite yes, that's what i'm asking. because i'm being asked and it makes me curious. 75% of our queries early terminate optimization because of "timeout"
 
3:47 PM
@AaronBertrand woah
 
@AaronBertrand The loch ness monster of query plans
 
@AaronBertrand let me guess, an april's fools query?
 
@swasheck It's a protection mechanism to avoid spending too long on optimization. Designed behaviour and not usually a bad thing. 75% is unusually high. Are you submitting queries with lots of joins and aggregations, but relatively low cost overall?
 
@Lamak that's what I thought, but I don't think so.
 
yikes
 
3:51 PM
The "timeout value" varies. It's not a time quantity; it relates to the number of tasks (steps) the optimizer sets itself as a limit. Usually it is related to the best cost it found in a previous round of optimization activity.
 
hitting your chin with 95# on a barbell, leaves a wee bit of a mark
 
95 hash? #Localization
 
@PaulWhite pounds
 
I know.
 
3:53 PM
@AaronBertrand Where's that from? Q & A?
 
@PaulWhite yeah was just posted
 
@PaulWhite sorry, obviously I haven't recovered since hitting it
 
@AaronBertrand Joy!
Idea for a new execution plan warning: Your Query Plan Is Too Damn Big.
 
Yeah or just do a count of the pattern "LEFT OUTER JOIN" in the query text, and the optimizer should just produce a single warning icon with a middle finger
3
 
That.
 
3:56 PM
@AaronBertrand is that an execution plan or a roller coaster.
 
Looks a little like an EAV design
 
From the same plan:
user image
2
 
wow
 
I don't even know what kind of illion that is.
 
gazillion
 
4:02 PM
Sextillion
 
perv
 
for the estimated rows
 
and the Estimated data size is in Yotta Bytes range. Big Data ...
 
Septillion for est data size
 
I think that is the number of bolts used in the Death Star
 
4:05 PM
Yoda Bolts
 
39s of the 57s execution time was spent on compilation. And yes...it timed out.
 
how many joins are there?
 
@swasheck Is this on the Cognos database that you were talking about earlier?
 
@ypercube Many.
Must be about 50.
Oh ha ha it has OPTION (KEEP PLAN). LOL
 
@JamesLupolt yes. cognos is a jiant pos
@PaulWhite yes. yes we are.
 
4:13 PM
@swasheck Then I wouldn't be concerned, unless the cost estimations are ridiculously low. Even then, I'd look to fix the underlying problem rather than worrying about TimeOut, which you can't influence anyway.
 
@PaulWhite well that's our perspective as well, but i'm still being asked
 
Well there's the answer you can keep giving.
 
@PaulWhite lol.
where did you guys find such a plan.
 
It looks more like a border fence than it does an execution plan.
 
4:39 PM
@AaronBertrand I need a hand with something.
 
i saw that :)
 
I ain't visiting Ozar's site today. I like my eyeballs.
 
I got up around 530 this morning and got on my surface to do my morning sql readings and almost spat out my coffee when I hit his site. I think the phrase 'WHY GOD WHY?' came out of my mouth.
 
@MikeFal the bumping heart is amazing.
 
I wonder if more people will click on the <blink>ing 'GET SQL CRITICAL CARE' link
 
4:56 PM
@AaronBertrand I'm having product key issues my good man please advise.
 
What kind of issues? Did you move your SQL sentry DB?
 
@Zane sp_UpdateResume
 
@AaronBertrand this is on my home copy of plan explorer pro. It says I'm out of keys. I am trying to install on my home machine and my laptop.
 
Ok I am out at lunch, let me take a look when I'm back at my desk. Can you e-mail me your key and the registered e-mail?
 
I'd deny it on account of him being a Wild fan.
 
5:08 PM
@MikeFal caitie or christie ... to whom should we direct @zane
 
@MikeFal being a wild fan seems to be a lot more fun than being an Avs fan at the moment.
 
@Zane Certainly better than being a Hurricanes fan
 
better than being a panthers fan
 
everything is better than being a panthers fan
I was at the game when Carolina won the Stanley Cup in 2006. Had season tix for 4 years after that. Those 4 years were mired by disappointment. Things have not improved and I can't in good conscience become a Rangers fan jsut because I live in NY
 
@Zane NEXT YEAR! /fistshake
@KrisGruttemeyer My co-worker would appreciate you being an Islanders fan.
 
5:14 PM
@MikeFal Mr. T?
 
@swasheck Kassay
 
@MikeFal I thought about that. I was born in Manhasset, Long Island so it seemed like a natural choice. Before NC had a team I was a huge Avs fan, I played goalie for 16 years and Roy was my idol).
 
@MikeFal exactly. mr. t. dont put me on that airplane, fool
 
@swasheck Ah. Apparently today is my day to miss subtle humor.
 
me too
 
5:17 PM
@MikeFal That was brilliant on @MichaelJSwart's part
 
5:36 PM
Does anyone know anything about tableau?
 
@Zane minimal, I went to a sql saturday session on it
 
@Zane I'm using it in a project right now
 
i hear it ...

tablows....


***YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!***
3
 
@Zane Sure do, my previous employer was a reseller
 
screw this <pre> nonsense
 
5:43 PM
@mmarie thoughts?
 
Depends on what you are trying to use it for
it's a great data discovery tool, pretty good for departmental dashboards
but if you want an enterprise reporting tool, do not use Tableau
it's painful
it's missing some key features that make SSRS very useful in that space
if you are used to SSRS it's a different way of thinking, for sure. But it has better viz options.
and 9.0 is about to come out, which ads some good features
@Zane Is there something specific you are curious about?
 
Just got an email about us acquiring access to a tableau instance.
 
April fool's! You're now administering an Access instance
2
 
6:00 PM
Some people tell me they can't see the fourth #SwartDrawsTweets cartoon. Try this link. I think you'll enjoy ... http://bit.ly/19KxsD9
 
We have an ETL process that is going to push lots of data from server A to B. I remember a DBA at a former client talk about how they set up dedicated NICs with route pathing something or other so the two servers can communicate directly.
If I'm seeing ASYNC_NETWORK_IO as my primary wait type while this runs, it would something like that would be a decent approach. Anyone ever done something like this? Thoughts, experience, etc?
 
JNK
@billinkc that wait may just mean the receiving system is slow in processing the data
 
Yes I've seen that wait often with really slow client consumption, and it had nothing to do with network at all, but SQL Server can't know the difference.
 
@billinkc i'd look at the client(s) involved in the etl and see what they're choking on ...
 
license: Isn't it a rule if you have a server built for Enterprise but only license it for Standard that you are violating the license? Seem to recall that was written somewhere.
 
6:13 PM
@ShawnMelton vtc
 
yeah yeah
 
@ShawnMelton what do you mean "built for Enterprise"?
 
ask your TAM
 
Excellent points. And yes, 7 indexes on the target table, clustered on non sequential guid. Nevermind. If anyone wants a stock tip, buy Gillette. Someone's in the market for razor blades
 
If it is a physical server that is overbuilt for standard edition (high cpu count and RAM)
 
6:15 PM
@ShawnMelton No, I don't see how that is violating anything, unless SQL Server is using more cores than you've licensed.
They can't really prevent you from putting 10 instances of Standard on an overpowered server.
These are neither lawyer nor licensing rep answers, just my opinions, so please don't make any licensing decisions based on them - really @swasheck is right, you need to talk to your account rep.
 
Of course. I'm only looking for opinion.
 
Are you standard edition licenses core-based or CAL?
 
you know what they say about opinions
 
I just seem to recall reading something that a SQL Server Standard instance is going to "see" 32 processes and 255GB of RAM and if you are using a server that is not fully licensed for the CPU count it is a violation.
This is a client server I'm reviewing that just brought up the thought but I can't recall where I read it from
 
Only if you are using core-based licensing and you didn't buy 32 cores' worth.
(Or how ever many cores that is, if you are talking about processors and not cores.)
 
6:19 PM
Ok, that makes sense.
 
For CAL I believe it is up to SQL Server to only use however many cores and memory is the limit. Imagine if SQL Server Express was only allowed on machines with 1 core and 1GB of RAM?
The CAL-based Enterprise (if you're grandfathered by SA) in 2012/2014 automatically limits to 20 cores during startup. This is a pain and actually causes severe perf issues on high-end NUMA machines.
Well, I don't know if severe is the right word there, but definitely measurable.
 
Then if it is licensed by core for Standard, that only covers 4 processors per core?
 
@billinkc I spent 5 minutes messing around with tunneling through Canada before I got it.
 
I think it will be different than that. If you have 4 processors with 8 cores each, and you license for 16 cores, SQL Server will use the first two processors and leave the other two alone.
(I haven't tested this - this is merely based on my observations of how they enforced the 20-core limit in Enterprise CAL.)
 
Could anyone tell me what's wrong with this command? sqlcmd -E -S REESE-SERVER\OMSQL -Q "BACKUP DATA OMSQL FROM DISK=C:\Users\Reese\Desktop\backup.bak"
I keep getting "incorrect syntax near the word from"
 
6:28 PM
If you have Standard Edition core-based licensing, I'm pretty sure you need to license all the cores that are physically present - you can't get out of licensing them by using CPU affinity or even the BIOS. You would need to physically remove them. Last I checked directly, anyway, that was the rule. So buy more licenses or procure a lesser-powered machine.
 
DISK=N'C:\Users\Reese\Desktop\backup.bak`
 
What's the N do?
 
@ekaj Why are you trying to backup from disk? You backup to disk, you restore from disk.
@ekaj Indicates it is Unicode.
 
That too
 
More importantly, the single quotes indicate that it is a string and not some funky column name or variable with colons and back-slashes in it.
@ekaj Please look up the syntax. This is a chat room, not a code camp.
 
6:30 PM
"Could not locate entry in sysdatabases for database 'OMSQL'
Hey Aaron, thanks for the tip :) That's how I got this far
 
@ekaj Sounds like the server you connected to does not have a database named OMSQL.
 
You have a server with a named instance and then you have a database on there with the same name as the instance name
How fun
 
And a server name with a dash in it. Brilliant.
 
If I were a DBA and leaving an organization that I hated, one of my last acts would be to create an instance with a unicode character in the name
 
@billinkc Cruel and unusual? Yes. Entertaining to watch the aftermath unfold? ABSOLUTELY
 
6:38 PM
@billinkc I love databases with spaces or tabs embedded in the name. Or with the (Recovery Pending) suffix.
 
@AaronBertrand Oh my, that's ... that's awesome
 
@AaronBertrand I hope that's an April Fool's joke...
 
@KrisGruttemeyer It would be a good one
 
My plan would involve a unicode character that looks amazingly like an ASCII one. Like ɢ` instead of G or a Zero/O similar thing
 
I can grammar today
 
Must not click (yet)
 
How could it be that @Zane has never e-mailed me
And I don't mean today, I mean ever
 
Could have swore I have.
 
I thought so too. Search yielded zilch.
 
I thought I sent you my product info.
 
6:44 PM
There's his toolfan side and then the professional version
 
@Zane Got it, it was archived > 11 months old (2014-04-10)
Did you seriously create a GMail account just for us? :-)
 
Cool.
I have two gmail accounts. SQLZane and ZanetheTOOLfan(Created by 15 year old Zane)
I also have ZaneBrunette but don't use that.
 
I prefer your 15 year old @Zane email :)
 
Oh, Tool the band, got it
 
Yeah.
 
6:49 PM
wow, there were quite some flags
 
I believe it's from the stack egg nonsense
 
@Zane so the problem is the license was issued under your wand e-mail.
 
@bluefeet yeah, maybe. Why can't they be more like The Heap, we never got in trouble for flags
 
gotcha.
That makes sense. I made them pay for it but since no one there was smart enough to use those I took the key.
 
stackegg makes me think of people calling football handegg and my mind goes running with the possibilities of what stack is an alias for
 
6:50 PM
@Lamak not anymore. I mean @Kermit isn't really here anymore
 
@Zane Let me know if any of these need to stay active:
 
@bluefeet he's probably hanging out in some sort of Veritca chat room.
 
Can you have a chat room by yourself?
3
 
@bluefeet yeah, he abandoned us for vertica
 
@AaronBertrand DTC is my work machine the others can go.
@billinkc nice.
 
6:55 PM
@Zane Ok you should be all set. The license is now attached to SQLZane.
 
sweet
A life without plan explorer pro was a frightening concept.
 
I can imagine.
Although I admire Google’s committment to an April Fool joke. They kept Google Plus going for over a year!
 
heyoooo
 
JNK
@MikeFal you have any experience dealing with OS file locks in Posh?
 
In Posh Spice? That's probably not good.
 
7:18 PM
@JNK Can't say that I do. Setting file locks, I assume?
 
JNK
@MikeFal well reading locked files
its working inconsistently
and making me bonkers
 
How are you reading them?
 
JNK
7:35 PM
@MikeFal I WAS using get-content
now I'm using a filestream object with minimal locks, i.e. just read rights
 
@MikeFal Write-Host
 
@swasheck Shut your filthy whore mouth.
 
JNK
$file = [System.IO.File]::Open('C:\SomeFile.Txt', 'Open', 'Read', 'ReadWrite')
		$Reader = New-Object System.IO.StreamReader($file)
Then I while loop over $Reader.Readline()
 
@MikeFal you never answered my question. caitie or christie for zane
 
@swasheck Oh, Catie. Also, I was thinking of sending @zane to Weed and Revgen if he was interested in BI consulting.
 
7:41 PM
i think he wants out of the bi realm and back into the dba stack
 
@MikeFal No. He is forsaking BI and becoming a DBA.
what @swasheck said
 
I've got to get out of BI for a while. Too many buzzwords for me to handle.
 
Ah
Yeah, Catie then.
 
@Zane ... are you on linkedin?
 
Probably.
 
7:43 PM
@Zane you are. ACCEPT MY REQUEST
 
I keep forgetting to close that account.
@swasheck look at how linked in we are now.
Our friendship is exactly 1 social media stronger.
 
We should become linked
 
Taking a break to play some Hero's for a moment?
 
8:05 PM
@Zane ugh. linkedin recommendations are blocked.
 
No, I didn't just open a bottle of wine to help me get through this query.
10
(yes, I did)
 
8:19 PM
^5
 
@mmarie a perk of working from home?
 
@bluefeet yep
 
<makes a mental note of this perk>
 
Is there any difference (Other than storage since includes are at the leaf level) in having indexes like so: Field1, Field2, INCLUDE Field 3 versus Field1, Field2, Field3.
Trying to consolidate some of this mess
 
8:32 PM
an INCLUDED column can be a a data type not allowed as an index column, the only other diff I know of
 
If it's a unique index the key columns can certainly influence what's allowed
And in the key you have much better chance of benefiting when sorting or filtering.
(As long as sorting/filtering happens in the order of the key.)
 
Makes sense, thanks for the insight. Time to test it out and see if I can consolidate them.
 
9:27 PM
why oh why do we delete and insert 350k+ rows into multiple tables, multiple times on a daily basis and not want the transaction log to grow exponentially each time so we can ship it?
 
@bluefeet BACKUP LOG [YouDeserveWhatYouget] TO DISK = N'NUL'
 
@swasheck nice
but I need to figure out a better solutions
 
i'm a problem solver
 
for the time-being I'd like to keep my job though
 
10:11 PM
i love backing up to NUL
 
@JamesLupolt i dont always backup to NUL, but when i do, i do it in prod
 
too bad you can't backup to the other DOS device names
it would be fun if you could create a hard copy of the database by backing up to PRN or LPT1
4
 
@JamesLupolt that would be awesome.
 

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