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ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
10:30 AM
@bluefeet This is a technical solution to a political problem. Your underlying issue is that the business are expecting you to build an automated process that will pick up any old crap they want to enter.
The correct solution is to provide a template with the data (named ranges are your friend here) and get them to populate the template themselves.
Morning all
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
gday chap
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
@MarkStorey-Smith G'day
How's it hanging?
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells free and easy
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
@MarkStorey-Smith How's life in Romania or are you in town now?
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells Still here, last week of a three week visit.
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
10:39 AM
@billinkc Which will, of course, never happen. The main reason people use MS Office is vendor lock in to proprietary file formats - they need it to see their data. It's certainly nothing to do with the technical merits of the product, although Word is much, much worse than Excel in this regard.
 
dezso
dezso
10:50 AM
could someone (preferably a native English speaker) check this?
 
ypercube
ypercube
11:27 AM
Do you think this should be reopened? dba.stackexchange.com/review/reopen/28925
I didn't see any important change in the edit. (link to the Q)
 
Mark Storey-Smith
Mark Storey-Smith
12:14 PM
@ypercube Still fits shopping category for me
 
JNK
JNK
@dezso good catch
looks like OP already fixed it but that was a crap edit
 
dezso
dezso
@MarkStorey-Smith but it also contains valid questions, I guess
 
dezso
dezso
12:34 PM
@JNK it's funny that after uncle COTW's edit the history looks like the crap edit was approved
 
JNK
JNK
well it's possible he "improve"d it
I think that registers as an approved edit that gets overwritten immediately
 
dezso
dezso
@JNK I imagine so
 
ypercube
ypercube
@dezso COTW improved the suggestion by editing.
 
 
1 hour later…
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
1:41 PM
@PaulWhite Thanks Paul!
@dezso COTW?
 
JNK
JNK
@MaxVernon Concerned of Tunbridge Wells
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
ahhh of course
 
Paul White
Paul White
@ypercube On balance, I thought so, yes. The question is "on hold" to invite improvement. The questioner clearly read the reasoning and enhanced the question to bring it more on topic. From my point of view, I would no longer close it as a shopping list question (I believe a constructive on-topic answer is possible), so I cast a reopen vote.
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
@JNK our SO flag queue finally looks like DBA
 
dezso
dezso
@bluefeet does it mean that you get only useful flags with highly meaningful explanations?
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
1:48 PM
@dezso I wish. That means that we no longer have 2k flags to review and we have about 10
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
2:32 PM
I just had someone from NZ jokingly chastise me for responding to work emails at 6:50AM. Of course, in order to chastise me, this meant she was still awake at 12:50 AM.
 
Shawn Melton
Shawn Melton
<rant>The time my boss just spent sending me an email instructing me to send out a meeting request for a client, took just as much time for him to do that himself.</rant>
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
maybe it's too early but does anyone understand this?
0
Q: How can I change the results of a single column of a sql query, within the query itself?

TommenI'm running the below SQL query: SELECT share_name AS "Server", Capacity, Available, ((available * 1.00) / capacity) * 100 as "% Free" FROM storage_info WHERE share_name LIKE '%192.168.1.1%' OR share_name LIKE '%192.168.1.2%' OR share_name LIKE '%192.168.1.3%' ...

sql sql-server database
 
billinkc
billinkc
People that alias columns with double quotes annoy me
2
 
Kermit
Kermit
@billinkc people annoy you
 
billinkc
billinkc
This is true
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
2:39 PM
@Kermit No. Morons annoy him.
 
dezso
dezso
@ShawnMelton but at least he delegates tasks ;)
2
 
billinkc
billinkc
A shiny gold star for you!
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
@dezso But did he delegate the decision? I bet if he's not happy with the time he'll instruct @ShawnMelton to re-schedule the meeting. Responsibility without authority is not delegation.
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
@billinkc edit-afied
 
Lamak
Lamak
@billinkc that seems like a black star to me though, it's only shiny for you
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
2:43 PM
Of course, someone needs to approve the edit. :)
 
billinkc
billinkc
The only perspective I have in this world is my own and thus, all that matters
The respondents in that question are not worth spreading the downvotes.
 
Paul White
Paul White
@MikeFal She might have stayed up late to catch the Commonwealth Games?
 
ypercube
ypercube
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells People annoy him. Morons annoy him. Therefore, people are morons.
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
@ypercube I have reached the same conclusion, albeit through slightly different reasoning.
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
@ypercube by definition, 50% of the people are below average intelligence.
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
2:47 PM
@PaulWhite I have no idea what you're talking about. Yet more strange kiwi sports?
 
JNK
JNK
Terrible question, defined:
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
@MikeFal No. Sort of a mini-olympics held amongst commonwealth nations.
 
JNK
JNK
0
Q: SQL Architect, High Availability

user2941281We have different office has its own set of legacy databases for functions like HR, Finance etc. While each office has fortuitously chosen the Microsoft application stack, that they have, until recently, been independent organisations means that each office’s databases relies on different version...

sql sql-server sql-server-2008 dynamics-crm microsoft-dynamics
 
Paul White
Paul White
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
@MikeFal Commonwealth Games are a British thing - much like the Olympics.
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
2:48 PM
'Murica hears ya'. 'Murica don't care.
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
not that the Olympics are British, but that the games are like the Olympics.
 
billinkc
billinkc
@JNK I like to read questions and guess their country of origin. I'm going with China on that one
 
Paul White
Paul White
Think of it as Major League Athletics. Or something.
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
@MikeFal Shoulda stayed with George III while you had the chance.
3
 
Paul White
Paul White
Ha!
 
billinkc
billinkc
2:49 PM
But then I'd be drinking tea for breakfast
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
@billinkc Isn't that a good thing?
 
swasheck
swasheck
"Malaysian Airlines Considers Rebrand"
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
Ummm...I do drink tea for breakfast?
Earl grey. Hot.
 
swasheck
swasheck
@MikeFal i think he's probably only about a 4
definitely not a 10
 
Paul White
Paul White
 
swasheck
swasheck
2:52 PM
it'd be easy to lump all americans into the same unhealthy boat as folks who endorse such nonsense. psh.

@MikeFal ... let's go get burgers for breakfast!!!
 
Zane
Zane
I haven't been to a burger king in ages.
 
swasheck
swasheck
nor i
 
billinkc
billinkc
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
@Zane Neither has Vincent Vega
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
@swasheck There's a place that just replaced the DTC Tilted Kilt that serves a breakfast burger. Burger + hashbrowns+egg+bacon+maple syrup
 
billinkc
billinkc
2:53 PM
Tea, Earl Grey, dry
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
@billinkc Not nearly as tasty
 
Paul White
Paul White
Still not using the metric system.
 
swasheck
swasheck
@MikeFal i'll have the heart-attack special, please
 
billinkc
billinkc
@PaulWhite 454 grams ought to be enough for anyone
 
Paul White
Paul White
:)
 
billinkc
billinkc
2:55 PM
Well, where anyone is about a month
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
@PaulWhite It's all the folks with six fingers I guess.
 
Paul White
Paul White
Most likely
 
billinkc
billinkc
six fingered man killed my father
 
swasheck
swasheck
ALLO!!!
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
0
Q: Apache mod_authn_dba with Oracle on Windows

MegachipHow can I configure Apache to authenticate against Oracle dbms? According to this link Oracle database is natively supported. No additional software required. Loading those modules: LoadModule authn_dbd_module modules/mod_authn_dbd.so LoadModule dbd_module modules/mod_dbd.so and configuring...

oracle oracle-11g
So we've got a vote for Server Fault
Does this seem like a Server Fault question?
Also, I like this comment:
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
3:05 PM
Anybody want a peanut?
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
Looks like a version mismatch to me: "mod_dbd not compatible with APR in get_driver". — Colin 't Hart 20 hours ago
and how OP just ignores the error message
nobody then?
 
dezso
dezso
@jcolebrand yes, I think so
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
Gah. Stupid devs using reserved key words for column names.
 
swasheck
swasheck
3:21 PM
@MikeFal that should be a weed-out item. like ochem for premed majors. if you cant pass this test, you're out of the program
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
New interview question: "Can you tune this query?" (query contains reserved keyword as column name)
If they try to tune it: WRONG! Trick question, don't use reserved keywords as column names.
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
@PaulWhite and @ypercube I should swat both your hands
 
Paul White
Paul White
@jcolebrand What did we do?
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
This does not provide an answer to the question. To critique or request clarification from an author, leave a comment below their post - you can always comment on your own posts, and once you have sufficient reputation you will be able to comment on any post. — Paul White 2 hours ago
You could've edited the answer to move the data part into the question and then flagged us to move it to a comment
folks with 1 rep can't comment
same goes for @MaxVernon
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
@jcolebrand that's a standard comment from the review queue
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
3:25 PM
@bluefeet blah blah
it's actually just needed to be an edit on the Q
 
ypercube
ypercube
@jcolebrand I thought of making a SQLFiddle or commenting, so the author of the answer can make one - but got distracted. It wasn't really an answer.
 
Paul White
Paul White
@jcolebrand It's a MySQL question. I don't feel confident making that sort of radical change outside SQL Server questions. I was happy processing it in the Low Quality Posts queue and leaving an auto-comment for the answerer to help them improve future answers.
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
@ypercube oh it's not an answer
It's at best an edit and a plea for doing things better in the future
@PaulWhite all I really did at the end was edit the question to add that content back in, after Max's edits
anyways
we move on
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
This was closed on Stack Overflow as being too broad, why do you think posting the exact same question on another site would result in something different? — bluefeet 6 secs ago
 
billinkc
billinkc
@Oliver I think you're confusing things. SSMS, SQL Server Management Studio, is a client side tool for interacting with SQL Server. The memory it consumes, generally in the form of large result sets, some for intellisense, etc, is returned to OS when you close the app. An SSIS, SQL Server Integration Services, package consumes a lot of memory during processing but then returns that memory to the OS upon exit. It does not run in SQL Server's memory space. SQL Server itself, stays resident and clings to its memory as Thomas explains on the DBA link. — billinkc 21 secs ago
Anything I missed?
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
3:29 PM
@billinkc looks clean
 
billinkc
billinkc
ta
 
Paul White
Paul White
@jcolebrand Yes, but you're a mod. I was happy with a 1-from-5 delete vote and a comment. Still am.
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
@bluefeet when BF says it's too broad for dba, the close is fast ;-)
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
well why post the exact same question expecting a different result?
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
3:40 PM
@jcolebrand damn I hate MySQL questions. I almost always find myself wondering "why would you want to do that".
4
 
Kermit
Kermit
@Marian nice like
 
billinkc
billinkc
4:03 PM
Lazy check - Is the optimizer going to be able to make `SELECT * FROM A LEFT OUTER JOIN (SELECT * FROM B WHERE B.f1 = 'x') AS B ON B.c1=A.c1` into
`SELECT * FROM A LEFT OUTER JOIN B ON B.c1=A.c1 AND B.f1 = 'x'`
Asking for a friend
 
Paul White
Paul White
4:18 PM
@billinkc Yes, but it's the other way around really: the optimizer has more work to do with the second version because it needs to push the f1 predicate under the join.
 
billinkc
billinkc
Oh really? Huh, I figured the second would have been mo betta
I really should read some books on this
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
You should fly to NZ and mindmeld with @PaulWhite
Get all Vulcan up in here.
 
Paul White
Paul White
@billinkc The second one is simpler to read, but less explicit. Only because f1 is compared with a constant rather than a column from the joined table.
 
ypercube
ypercube
@MikeFal Fly? no "beam me up down Scottie" for billinkc?
 
billinkc
billinkc
I think Kent Chenery had linked me a thing on biking tours of NZ. That would not suck
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
4:27 PM
@billinkc Have we already had the conversation where I tell you I also work with him?
 
billinkc
billinkc
No, I didn't know that
He and I had chatted gosh, two years ago about coming down for their SQL Saturday. It was going to be indoors at a ski place. The concept still hurts my head
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
Yeah, so he is in our Auckland office. Auckland is subtropics. I mentioned skiing to him and he was telling me about his indoor resort. I still don't understand how that could be any good.
 
billinkc
billinkc
@PaulWhite If I can continue abusing you, would an explicit column list in the derived tables be any more efficient or will the optimizer figure that out as well?
From a maintenance perspective, I'd prefer an explicit column list
 
Paul White
Paul White
@MikeFal It is actually quite fun, though not quite the same as being at the top of a mountain for sure.
 
billinkc
billinkc
No matter how hard I check, looking at tempb for the existence of temporary table will not find it
 
Paul White
Paul White
4:42 PM
@billinkc Personal choice. The optimizer always expands * before optimization begins. I strongly prefer an explicit column list in general, but I do use * from time to time in applies and subqueries where being explicit adds nothing but length to the meaning of the query.
 
billinkc
billinkc
Thank you
 
Paul White
Paul White
@billinkc Why not?
 
billinkc
billinkc
because I should look in tempdb, not tempb
 
Paul White
Paul White
Oh! Ha ha!
 
billinkc
billinkc
No need to ask how long I was staring at that one
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
4:48 PM
And it was staring right back, mocking you.
 
billinkc
billinkc
I rebooted the server, just to watch tempdb shrink
 
Marian
Marian
cold restart, right?
 
Paul White
Paul White
tempb shrank away to nothing
 
Marian
Marian
@Kermit thanks, liked it too much to not show it.
 
billinkc
billinkc
Folsom Prison Blues
"Folsom Prison Blues" is a song written and recorded by American country music artist Johnny Cash. The song combines elements from two popular folk genres, the train song and the prison song, both of which Cash would continue to use for the rest of his career. It became one of Cash's signature songs. It was the eleventh track on his debut album With His Hot and Blue Guitar but was also included (same version) on All Aboard the Blue Train. == History == Cash was inspired to write this song after seeing the movie Inside the Walls of Folsom Prison (1951) while serving in West Germany in the United...
 
swasheck
swasheck
4:59 PM
i shot a man in reno just to watch him die
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
@swasheck I'm calling the police!
 
swasheck
swasheck
@PaulWhite i'm still stewing a bit about that abstract. not sure i should be, but i just need to let it go
 
billinkc
billinkc
I was just composing a sql server centric version
 
swasheck
swasheck
tears on a river ... push on a shove it don't mean much
 
Paul White
Paul White
@swasheck The hate is swelling in you now. Take your Jedi weapon. Use it. I am unarmed. Strike me down with it. Give in to your anger.
 
billinkc
billinkc
5:05 PM
He should also strike you down with all of his hatred so his journey toward the darkside is complete
 
swasheck
swasheck
 
Paul White
Paul White
That too.
 
swasheck
swasheck
@PaulWhite (though it's not directed toward you. it's not directed toward anyone. just a bummer)
 
Paul White
Paul White
@swasheck Yeah, I know.
 
swasheck
swasheck
ok good.
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
5:11 PM
This internal all hands has 3-D pie charts......
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
@MikeFal fun
we just provided the tools to our execs to use maps to drill into our data - they like that
@swasheck are you sure you don't want to move here? buzzfeed.com/yezminvillarreal/…
 
swasheck
swasheck
wow. no thanks.
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
5:28 PM
@swasheck but you can cook in your car, that saves on electrical bills
 
swasheck
swasheck
which i'd use in one day on the frickin' electical bills
and i overheated my iphone in the colorado mountain summer
sooooooo ... wtf would phoenix really do to it
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
@swasheck you just can't leave it in your car, it would melt
 
Zane
Zane
You people are spitting in the face of nature by even attempting to live out there.
 
swasheck
swasheck
@bluefeet my neighbor works for schwab (this used to be my playground) and he said that the trips to phoenix are the worst. he hates it more than going to detroilet
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
@swasheck if you come in the summer then yes that sucks but Phx isn't all that bad
 
swasheck
swasheck
5:37 PM
i'll take your word for it
 
Lamak
Lamak
5:50 PM
@bluefeet Have you seen a meta post about weird highlighting of read links in the "hot meta posts" bulletin?. For me it almost always behaves strangely, when I just load the page, there are some of those links highlighted as read (even if I've read everyone), but when hovering with the mouse over them some changes to read and others as unread
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
You need to describe your goal. Are you attempting to learn about dynamic sql or are you wanting a list of referenced tables? — Max Vernon 3 mins ago
ok, now I know. Glad my time wasn't totally wasted.
Fantastic, Max, your solution works great! Thank you so much, I really appreciate this. I was at an impasse at a higher level & now can move forward quickly. Best wishes, Brad — Brad Stiritz 3 mins ago
 
JNK
JNK
6:14 PM
0
A: Storing Twitter Data

user44626I Suggest to go for NOSQL document oriented database or key value pair model of data storage. You can use CouchDB or MangoDB which better suits for this lot of unstructured data from Twitter and for its analysis.

MangoDB has more vitamin C than most SQL solutions.
4
It is, of course, developed in India
 
Zane
Zane
What sort of hardware are you rolling? What method are you using to store the data? What's your structure look like? How available must this system be? These are all questions you need to have answers to if you're going to be able to get a specific answer. You're probably going to get a bunch of answers telling you to go NOSQL but you still need to address those questions instead of just throwing a Buzzword at the problem. — Zane 39 secs ago
Gee look at all these execution plan graphics that I never see.
 
swasheck
swasheck
@JNK i flagged that if you want to have an excuse to demote to comment
 
JNK
JNK
done
 
swasheck
swasheck
6:29 PM
like Jay-Z said ... "that's what the f&*( i call a chain reaction"
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
seth you may wish to delete this now
please suggest why you believe that these solutions are preferable. additionally, i'm not sure why you'd say that twitter data is "unstructured", it seems to have a high degree of structure. — swasheck 6 mins ago
seems the answer got deleted and comments moved to the question.
 
JNK
JNK
@MaxVernon I moved them on purpose
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
ahhh
 
swasheck
swasheck
@MaxVernon Max, I'm keeping it
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
yah, I see now that the answer was moved to a comment. d'oh
 
JNK
JNK
6:31 PM
Normally if they address the CONTENT I'll keep em
if they are along the lines of "This doesn't answer the question" I delete them
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
never have I seen that occur in front of my eyes
 
JNK
JNK
AH
you had it open
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
yup
 
JNK
JNK
so you saw the "2 more comments" doodad
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
yeah, I only noticed the answer had been converted later on. Now I know™
I originally thought the user had self-deleted... but then I suppose the comments wouldn't have migrated to the question.
 
Zane
Zane
6:37 PM
Why do people consider Twitter Unstructured?
 
JNK
JNK
@Zane They don't understand data
FYI that guy tried to respond to your comments in another answer....
> Hello everyone I can't comment on your posts as I dont have 50+ reputation points.

@Swasheck Most of twitter data is used for data mining. And it will be of text data type. It is difficult to establish relation between data elements. So with out bothering about relations and creating easy storage model is good for this kind of data. And later based on your requirement you can create views of this data using java script to analyze accordingly.

@Max Vernon this MangoDB is used by lot of companies especially social networking companies to manage their data.
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
@JNK toooooooo funny. I'm going to try out MangoDB. I wonder if it's juicy and sweet.
 
Zane
Zane
Even if you're just counting the tweet and not the user attached to it and the time tweeted. It's full of @whoever and hashtags. Fuck they've gotten people to format their speech to their data patterns. How many times have you heard some knob say hashtag out loud?
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
@Zane that's what they make throat-punches for.
 
JNK
JNK
@Zane yeah they definitely don't have structured data, how else can it automatically search for @ matches for names and # matches for hashtags?
I'm sure it's searching all of the entire twitter csv file or whatever every single time
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
6:47 PM
lol for "entire twitter csv"
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
MangoDB?
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
"When stored, each short message, or "tweet," consists of 17 fields, six of which have at least one subfield, he explained. And the company will probably add more fields to these schema in the years to come."
@MikeFal Yeah, apparently it's the new MongoDB, only sweeter.
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
I understand that mangos are pretty sweet
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
I'm such a sarcastic bastard. Sometimes I forget the Internetz doesn't convey emotion.
 
JNK
JNK
MangoDB is apparently an ORM for mongoDB
so it's a turd sandwich
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
6:52 PM
@JNK oh nice. Even better!
ORM -> SLOW, KLUDGEY, BLACK BOX.
 
JNK
JNK
orms have their place for some things
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
OMG: "MangoDB is one of the fastest databases in existence. It allows you to store ANY KIND OF DATA you want without any IO bottleneck. You're only limited by the size of your pipe."
 
JNK
JNK
what's that from?
 
swasheck
swasheck
@JNK yes. wiping my butt
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
@JNK yeah, they help people that don't know how to do data, "do data".
oh fuck me.
The cloud can be a scary place to put your database. However, thanks to Mango's proprietary auto sharting algorithm you won't need to worry
"auto-sharting" nice.
 
swasheck
swasheck
6:57 PM
has to be parody
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
it is. The code is even written in Python. And has the number 42.
 
JNK
JNK
> License

If you use this, you must donate $1 to someone more intelligent than you.
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
@JNK yeah, genius.
The only thing that would make that better would be if it piped all your dataz to NULL.
 
swasheck
swasheck
7:17 PM
anyone in here good with sql server data file internals?
 
billinkc
billinkc
11100111
Too slow to edit. Make that 010110010110010101110011
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
@swasheck Why not ask your question and see if we can answer it?
 
swasheck
swasheck
@MikeFal ... for multiple large tables, is it generally better to distribute a filegroup across multiple smaller volumes, or across fewer larger volumes?
 
billinkc
billinkc
Oh, I didn't say I was good at it
But I like the way you twerk it. No diggity
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
The more volumes (actual separate volumes), the better, because you're spreading the files out across multiple I/O streams
At least that's how I understand it
But data files, not log files. It won't help log files.
 
swasheck
swasheck
7:29 PM
that's conventional wisdom. would that hold true for range scans?
heavy range scan workloads?
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
HRmmm.....I don't know. Maybe, if the query is parallelizing? Or table is partitioned?
 
swasheck
swasheck
currently yes, but we're getting ready to tear that down (hopefully)
 
Paul White
Paul White
@swasheck My view: you're best off not trying to overthink this. Make the I/O subsystem as fast as it will go, then use files and FGs (or not) for maintenance or other admin reasons, not perf. SQL Server is very good at driving I/O hard, whatever the file/FG arrangement. Most SQL Server I/O is async, remember.
Assuming you're already doing the best things w.r.t fragmentation, page fullness, compression, column store etc
 
swasheck
swasheck
7:57 PM
@PaulWhite page density is decent (some are great, some are ... meh), compression is an idea, but we're already bumping upwards of 80% cpu utilization, and columnstore is a future thing (this is currently 2008r2). i appreciate your input - especially using FG for maintenance and admin.
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
Oh yes, compress if you aren't already
 
swasheck
swasheck
i'd considered it, but the prevailing wisdom was that our cpu was already too high
 
Marian
Marian
@swasheck so now it's time to switch it from power saving to high perf ;).
 
Paul White
Paul White
@swasheck Write better queries to lower the CPU & I/O load :)
Or hire a professional :) :)
 
mmarie
mmarie
@billinkc you aren't on gchat. i have a question
or I guess it can be a general question for the group.... We have been asked to stop our use of a linked server from SQL Server to an Oracle DB in our ETl and instead use the Attunity SSIS connectors. Bill seemed to be against this, I think for performance reasons but I'm not sure. Anyone have experience with the Attunity Oracle source in SSIS? Love it/hate it/tolerate it?
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
8:10 PM
@mmarie Tolerate it. Probably the best bet you'll have for migrating data between Oracle and SQL Server. Any clunkyness of them is more explained by SQL and Oracle's inability to play nice with one another.
 
mmarie
mmarie
@MikeFal Cool. thanks
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
ugh, such an SE circlejerk on moderators.se today
 
billinkc
billinkc
My reason for the linked server route was two-fold. One, we have a precedent established for using linked servers to connect to other database resources (DB2 for PeopleSoft). Given the disparity between the SQL Server/DB2 DBA at this client vs the ... Oracle DBAs, this approach had the further advantage of having DBAs face off against each other over permissions and such
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
everyone has forgotten how day one works
 
billinkc
billinkc
The second reason is ease of developer life. This route, we don't have to deal with any TNS names wonkiness, software installs, wondering whether the RUNAS hurdle we face on the foreign domain will raise even more crazy BS.
 
mmarie
mmarie
8:20 PM
@billinkc Ah, that's right. Thanks for reminding me. We are still using the linked server right now, but they will be killing that shortly
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
@billinkc The hangup is the OLEDB drivers for Oracle from SQL Server are miserable for performance. Atunity uses DIRECTPATH, meaning it's faster (essentially bulk loading).
 
billinkc
billinkc
Instead, we're just connecting to a SQL Server instance. All that ETL is already written and will require to fiddling to make it work on stage/prod.
@MikeFal But we don't have to worry about performance. This is a daily snapshot at oh-dark-thirty
 
mmarie
mmarie
@billinkc We got the cool DBA back for our stuff :-)
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
@billinkc Oh, I've heard that line before..... :)
 
billinkc
billinkc
But I do appreciate the knowledge there. DIRECTPATH is being assimilated into my greater collective
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
8:22 PM
Yeah, I keep trying to forget my Oracle knowledge, but it sticks in there. Like fungus.
 
mmarie
mmarie
Also, i added a day to the schedule to redo the 20 tables we are using this for. I guess i don't care since they are paying us to do it.
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
would it be a good question to ask why MySQL takes an extremely long time to start up after rebooting my server?
and/or has that already been covered
I couldn't find anything similar, but maybe I'm just not searchign for the right thign
like, it takes a good 30 minutes+ to start running
and this is on a quad core production web server with 12gb of ram
 
billinkc
billinkc
@mmarie Oh and by not having developers manage userids and passwords, there is no opportunity for developers to load data into the production oracle instance from the dev SQL Server instance because they are dumber than a bag of hammers
 
mmarie
mmarie
@billinkc Amy E doesn't believe you wear a kilt or do Irish dance. Also, she works in a cave.
 
billinkc
billinkc
@AJHenderson Was it in the middle of a long running transaction when you rebooted? What do your system utilities say is going on with the machine besides mysql start up?
@mmarie Have her search for clanna eireanne on youtube some time
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
8:26 PM
@billinkc unsure, the system was unstable when I had to reboot it. Couldn't even RDP in to it
could only access serial console
and issue a reboot command there
 
billinkc
billinkc
@AJHenderson Always takes 30+ minutes to start or this one time it did?
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
@billinkc any time this particular type of reboot has to be done
maybe once ever two to three months, the server will just stop responding entirely (the whole windows box) and I have to serial console in and reboot. Every time I do that, MySQL takes about 30 minutes to come back up
 
billinkc
billinkc
To restate: the server becomes unresponsive/unstable. A reboot is issued to resolve it. After reboot, it's 30+ minutes before mysql is usable again?
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
yeah
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
Anything in the logs?
 
billinkc
billinkc
8:30 PM
If it were SQL Server, I'd assume that the delay was due to it having to transaction log things. I'd start with the event viewer to see if anything of interest is contained around the time of the reboots. Then look at activity/process monitor once you reboot to see just WTF is going with the server
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
@mmarie I need you to talk to my executives. They had 3D pie charts in today's all hands presentation.
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
Timestamp, Thread, Type, Details
2014-07-29 15:53:58, , [Note], Plugin 'FEDERATED' is disabled.
2014-07-29 15:53:58, , InnoDB:, Initializing buffer pool, size = 107.0M
2014-07-29 15:53:59, , InnoDB:, Completed initialization of buffer pool
, , , InnoDB: The log sequence number in ibdata files does not match
, , , InnoDB: the log sequence number in the ib_logfiles!
2014-07-29 15:53:59, , InnoDB:, Database was not shut down normally!
, , , InnoDB: Starting crash recovery.
, , , InnoDB: Reading tablespace information from the .ibd files...
 
billinkc
billinkc
You don't have anything silly like a virus scanner running on the box, right? Or if you do, you've excluded all the mysql things...
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
I do have a virus scanner that runs for the e-mail server's usage, but it actually had not started up yet either
I have it set to manually start periodically or when called by the mail server
is the order it writes out the log in just weird and it was actually the crash recovery taking that whole time?
oddly, CPU utilization is also very low on MySQL during the time it is loading though
memory grows slightly during it (about 1/3 to 1/5 of a megabyte per second)
 
billinkc
billinkc
But I bet if you look at disk activity, you'll see it ripping through whatever transaction log files
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
8:38 PM
@jcolebrand you've had good questions :)
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
@billinkc I'll give that a check next time, but wouldn't it be able to read from disk fast enough to use more than 2 or 3% CPU
I mean, granted, that's around 15% of one core
 
Max Vernon
Max Vernon
oooooh, you lost me at 'cloud'. — Max Vernon 1 min ago
 
billinkc
billinkc
You've gotta be bound by something: disk, cpu, memory or network.
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
@billinkc fair point
 
JNK
JNK
@billinkc ...imagination!
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
8:41 PM
I also should probably check memory collisions, I suppose it could be loading a lot of objects in and out of memory and moving data around beyond just reading it from disk too
 
billinkc
billinkc
@JNK I'm going to hit you with a large installation of mangodb
3
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
based on the sizes of my DB and transaction files, I don't think disk access is the problem
but that doesn't mean it might not be moving things in and out of memory like crazy even if overall growth is slow
 
JNK
JNK
@billinkc MangoDB™ is web-scale. It's also soft and fluffy like the fur on a kitten's belly, and if it hit me it would not hurt.
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
@bluefeet I don't care that they close shitty questions
I just care that people don't try to make the site BETTER on day one
and thank you
 
billinkc
billinkc
Mangoes and Indian food sound very good right now
Oh, who am I kidding, they always sound good
 
JNK
JNK
8:43 PM
Oh man I had some awesome Indian food last weekend.
Kozhi Chettinad is the best
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
@jcolebrand I had one closed as well and it was well received in area 51 but whatever :)
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
@billinkc yeah, my entire data folder is under 400mb
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
@bluefeet I've contributed enough for today, I have real-work to do
 
AJ Henderson
AJ Henderson
@jcolebrand let the moderators know... oh wait...
 
JNK
JNK
now I'm hungry :(
 
billinkc
billinkc
8:47 PM
Chettinad cuisine
Chettinad cuisine is the cuisine of the Chettinad region of Tamil Nadu state in South India. The Chettiar community, who are a majority in this region, are a very successful trading community. Chettinad cuisine is one of the spiciest and the most aromatic in India. Chettinad cuisine is famous for its use of a variety of spices used in preparing mainly non-vegetarian food. The dishes are hot and pungent with fresh ground masalas, and topped with a boiled egg that is usually considered essential part of a meal. They also use a variety of sun dried meats and salted vegetables, reflecting the d...
 
JNK
JNK
I just read that again
 
billinkc
billinkc
Our guy is from Punjab so not terribly spicy.
 
JNK
JNK
our place is pretty spicy
and that's the spiciest dish they have
 
billinkc
billinkc
Although, he does bring the pain with "sweet" naan
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
@bluefeet I'm still not sure what I did wrong with
10
Q: Am I a moderator or a user?

jcolebrandHow should I behave as a user when I'm also a moderator, especially in cases of inter-user disagreement over content or policy? I have my own reasons for thinking I'm right, of course, but I don't want people to think that I'm going to moderate by fiat when I really just want to have an opinion ...

interaction
 
billinkc
billinkc
8:48 PM
Stupid one box
 
JNK
JNK
lol
I clicked the link
yay
 
jcolebrand
jcolebrand
For his otherwise impeccable English, his description of this naan as "sweet" is right out. #feeltheburn http://t.co/1hDKt6rg9D
Tweeted by billinkc on July 6, 2014 at 6:45 PM
 
billinkc
billinkc
Exactly
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
And what kind of naan is that?
 
billinkc
billinkc
Naan filled with the 7th ring of hell
 
JNK
JNK
8:51 PM
I'm a garlic naan maan myself
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
Not "sweet", but would the kiwis call it "sweet as"
 
swasheck
swasheck
@PaulWhite would that we could do either
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
Personally, I like my naan straight up.
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
@jcolebrand Not sure, seems valid to me. My "when should I step-down" was closed as well
 
billinkc
billinkc
Variety of chilis and spices. But yes, garlic is my style of naan
 
Mike Fal
Mike Fal
8:52 PM
I had chicken vindaloo last Sunday. It was amazing.
 
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