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12:24 AM
@ErikE You get that a lot in contracting. Companies who can understand and manage development don't need contractors so much, so you tend to end up working for organisations with mildly to severely dysfunctional I.T. cultures. At least with contracting you get paid to put up with it.
 
12:55 AM
@Mark I don't think you're supposed to knock people out in volleyball. I could be playing it wrong though
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells Not always true, some places use contracting for flexibility (or as a substitute for long-term planning)
That said I do agree that an all-contract dev house is a management version of a code smell (a 'management smell' maybe?)
 
 
7 hours later…
gbn
7:37 AM
Hello
 
8:24 AM
Morning. Or something.
 
 
1 hour later…
gbn
9:31 AM
"Probabilistically Bounded Staleness for Practical Partial Quorums"
a.k.a define "eventual" in "eventual consistency"
 
@gbn Title of a paper on distributed system architecture?
@SimonRigharts Not always true, but more often than not, in my experience.
 
And it's even got a Lamport reference
 
Le morning
 
Le greetings
@gbn - sort of interesting (in as much as peer-reviewed papers ever are). I do like the formal model for probability of getting a read that's less than k versions old.
If you could prove a certain probability value under a given load then you might be able to put some sort of SLA around the consistency of the data. Gods forbid, you might be able to use a NoSQL system with somebody who actually cares about their data.
However, measuring whether your system is actually hitting its latency SLA is left as an exercise for the reader.
OTOH it is quite a good definition of 'eventual'.
 
9:44 AM
This weekend I will mostly be installing SQL Server and joining the dark side
What's the best version to start from these days?
 
@Phil 2008 R2, I should think. 2012 isn't at RTM yet. What are you installing it on?
 
gbn
2012 is out today, can get vis MSDN
 
Bugger me, so it is.
 
10:34 AM
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells I have an MSDN sub handy, so I can whack it on anything I like. In a VM of course for testing purposes
 
@Phil What do you want to do with it?
 
Study. I know Sybase & want to start learning SQL Server, with a view to getting certified on it in the long-term
Knowing Oracle and SQL Server seems to command big bucks
and be increasingly asked for
 
@Phil SQL Server, particularly, I think - I've got a colleague here who's seeing a bit of a shortage of Oracle gigs. However, I did a google search for 'Sybase DBA' on jobserve the other day and there seemed to be plenty of demand, and the rates on offer seemed to be higher on average than SQL Server or Oracle.
Although the shortage is in ETL development rather than DBA jobs.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:52 AM
Morning gents
 
Yo
 
 
2 hours later…
JNK
1:47 PM
@gbn you here? I have a SS default trace question
 
gbn
@JNK yep
 
JNK
im trying to look at the default trace on a server
namely to see DDL stuff
oh wait I think I may have gotten it
I had to reduce the trace log name by 1
I was able to see the events in the schema changes history report but not when I queried the trace file in TSQL
but I think it was from a trace file rollover
OK I GOT IT!
sorry to have pinged you my friend
 
gbn
/me fluffs pillow, grumbles, and wraps duvet around himself. Tries not to wet himself
 
 
3 hours later…
4:47 PM
hah
21
Q: Why do people think that this is bad way to hash passwords?

genesisWell, please tell me, what's wrong with this code: $password = "hello"; $password = md5($password); for($i=1;$i<20;$i++){ $password = md5($password); } It's exactly the same as this one: md5(md5(md5(md5(md5(md5(md5(mD5(md5(md5(md5(md5(md5(md5(md5(md5(mD5(md5(md5(md5(‌​md5($password))))...

read the comment on the question by "D.W."
"Public service announcement: This question was migrated from a non-security site, after it had already accumulated (incorrect) answers with many votes. Unfortunately some of those answers contain technical errors. Unfortunately the IT Security community doesn't have enough users knowledgeable in security to counteract the sheer mass of votes from the Stack Overflow community. Therefore, please do not trust the votes here as an indicator of good security advice. – D.W. Aug 18 '11 at 8:07"
sounds like the same situation as when SO's mods migrated over here a question about TRUNCATE+DROP being faster than just DROP
 
5:06 PM
@Nick do we have a canonical 'no, use order by or all bets are off' answer to link to for this?
btw an IOT is primarily used to achieve clustering (or to save space) rather than to speed up sorting data, though it may do that too in some cases :-)
 
@JackDouglas there are two answers I linked to
 
@NickChammas excellent, thanks
 
@JackDouglas I wasn't commenting on the primary purpose of an IOT, but I can add that explanation in if you think it's beneficial.
 
I'll file them all for next time
@NickChammas probably not, just an aside really
 
@JackDouglas heh, now we have the same question for SQL Server, Oracle, and MySQL
@JackDouglas okie doke
 
5:17 PM
What does he mean "We basically don't want to have to do an order by over a range scan 170 times a second, as the number executed will drop massively."
 
i think he means "the number of times that query can be executed per second will drop massively if we add the order by"
 
@NickChammas I suppose you could suggest that the OP just sorts the data client side after the query.
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells that's a joke, right :-)
@NickChammas I find that hard to believe
 
@JackDouglas OP probably doesn't have an index on priority
 
@NickChammas it's implicitly one of the IOT columns
er maybe not
 
5:24 PM
@JackDouglas Sort of ;) However the OP is a bit incoherent.
 
@JackDouglas well, that's what he's asking about; don't think he has it in there yet :)
 
From the posting I don't think the priority is going to be a part of the ordering.
But back to the canonical question idea, it's probably worth doing one. Even more relevant to SQL Server as clustered indexes (basically the same thing as IOTs) are very widely used on that platform.
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells he must have some reason for hoping priority 1 rows get ordered first?
 
The priority does not matter for the inserts or updates i.e. not part of the primary key, which I'll enforce separately.
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells agreed, though we already have 3 questions (including this IOT one) about ordering
 
5:27 PM
Although the ordering index doesn't have to be the primary key on Oracle IIRC - it certainly doesn't have to on SQL Server
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells primary key isn't connected with what order columns are in the IOT though
 
That's what I thought.
Actually, now if you look at it that way the question is ambiguous about whether he wants to include the priority in the ordering key.
There are times I think SO needs a whitepapers library - kind of like tag blurbs but bigger dissertations covering particular topics - inded-ordered tables for example.
Not quite wikipedia - not really just definitions of a specific term - but a collection of blurbs on commonly referenced subjects where you can refer the OP of RTFM-type questions to for some background.
 
if he is adding the column he is adding it to the ordering key (all columns are in the ordering key in an IOT) - the question really is where in the ordering he is adding it
 
@JackDouglas Now we need to know what the priority means. If the table has some parent that it refers to and you want priority 1-2 for that parent then the OP would have to be explicit about that.
Perhaps we're conflating 'poorly written question' issues with 'canonical answer' issues.
Yes, it is a bit of a RTFM question, but it's also a fairly incoherent RTFM question lacking in some specific detail that would be needed to give it a sensible answer.
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells maybe it's something we can add to the tag wiki
 
5:37 PM
@NickChammas Maybe, also it might be worth adding an index-ordered-table tag. According to @JackDouglas they work slightly differently from clustered indexes on SQL Server.
@JackDouglas - never used an IOT in anger on Oracle. I didn't know that all columns have to participate in the ordering. A clustered index doesn't require this on SQL Server.
 
lulz
maybe OP thinks ordering in the app is cheaper CPU-wise
 
6:10 PM
@JackDouglas - I've asked the OP to post a separate question about his real issue. I'm afraid this has devolved into a classic case of the X-Y Problem.
 
@NickChammas good idea :)
but if this guy can use tkprof then he deserves respect :-)
 
certainly, no disrespect intended
 
 
2 hours later…
8:15 PM
0
A: Temporary replication of data between continental datacenters

Mike RaffertyHave you looked into database sharding techniques? This is a great video explaining sharding http://www.dbshards.com/rightscaleuser2010/ Hope this helps out!The company is dbshards.com Mike

smells like spam to me?
sharding to achieve replication?
 
@JackDouglas definitely smells fishy to me
 
8:43 PM
@JackDouglas From this conversation on metaso a certain level of implicit self-promotion (links to blog postings/whitepapers and suchlike) is acceptable, provided it links to relevant material. However, this answer is (a) obvious spam and (b) offtopic. Flagged as spam.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:46 PM
Huh. rcs20 posted a bounty on the MySQL sharding question when he has no rep at all. Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of bounties?
 
It does
which question?
6
Q: Splitting Tables in MySQL. Good practice?

PinkGrapefruitI have started working on an existing project and the previous developer had split up a table into 10 separate tables with identical schemas but different data. The tables look like this: [tableName_0] [tableName_1] [tableName_2] [tableName_3] [tableName_4] [tableName_5] [tableName_6] [tableNam...

> alright this is crap see ya stackoverflow ...
he's ragequitting
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells - Dude...
All I have to say is


+1
 
@NickChammas Thanks.
 
Yeah I saw that later. You'd think there'd be some sort of automatic check to make sure they have rep before setting a bounty
 
The world needs more 'SSAS/MDX for SQL Server Devs/DBAs' blurbs.
 
10:56 PM
Also, ragequitting because he lost 70 rep? Ahaha my heart bleeds.
 
@jcolebrand This seems like an easy question, no? OP's data volumes are so small he could put them in a CSV and be all set.
 
@NickChammas not to me. partitioning is always tricky, at the easiest
 
@jcolebrand it is, but I don't think he's even close to the level where he needs to consider partitioning.
"Combined, the tables have probably 100,000 rows and the growth rate is relatively low."
That's nothing.
 
I concur on that regard
HOWEVER
the practice of partitioning
And understanding why you don't need partitions, you just need good indexing
Those are good reasons to keep them here (instructional)
 
Oh, I'm just talking about the question in general, not about migrating it to SO.
It definitely belongs here.
 
11:04 PM
then I'm confused what you're asking me
yes of course it's an easy Q
but all newb-partitioning Q are easy, in my experience
 
lol
guess I was talking for its own sake
actually, what prompted the question was the complexity and seriousness of all the existing answers
correcting that now...
@SimonRigharts this guy has apparently opened bounties for everything stackoverflow.com/users/1072482/rcs20?tab=reputation
he's like a year-round SO santa claus
 
11:32 PM
Guys - please don't flag stuff like this for migration unless you are the author. This was a living question and answer from a guy who's had, so far as I can tell, no participation on DBAs.
 

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