The Factory Floor

Future Historian

8:00 PM

Well, I have an idea.

Gentlemen?

So, how doable (in theory) is an invasion of North America through Alaska and Hawaii?

Mithrandir24601

@FutureHistorian Quite simply: it's not

SCPilot

Hm.....It's possible actually. There was an incident where enemy soldiers did in fact invade Alaska.

I have to look it up though. And don't forget Pearl Harbor, although that was more of a bombing raid than an invasion.

Future Historian

Well, I meant in a 21st Century context.

Say for example: either Russia tries to invade through Alaska or China attempts to take Hawaii first.

What happens then?

Well?

Besides, I am not saying America can be invaded.

I am saying: how hard is it to do so?

Without throwing real life out the window?

Redacted Redacted

@Secespitus I don't get, what you're talking about.

HDE 226868

@FutureHistorian If you go through Alaska, I imagine Canada would not be happy, assuming you continue with a purely land-based invasion - which would not be easy in Alaska.

SCPilot

8:07 PM

That's true, and Canada is one of our strongest allies. Even though America got its butt kicked by both Canada and Britain during the War of 1812.

;)

Future Historian

Exactly.

And besides, can Russia take care of Canada, with some help from China?

Russia takes Alaska, China mobilises troops to help, and invade through Canada?

:P

Mithrandir24601

@FutureHistorian Don't you mean that the US allies with Russia and then takes Canada?

Bellerophon

@FutureHistorian Brexit is certain and unstoppable.

Future Historian

No.

I do not.

Mithrandir24601

@Bellerophon Unless the Lib Dems get voted in, which is extremely unlikely

Future Historian

8:17 PM

Because by the time this situation happens, Trump is out of office (thankfully).

^ @Mithrandir24601.

And to show that I do not support Brexit, I am switching my vote to LibDem.

HDE 226868

@FutureHistorian Now we're just playing "Let's see how many permanent members of the UN Security Council we can get pissed off at one another".

Future Historian

Well, it is technically meant to be a situation of "how to turn America into a dictatorship without having to overthrow its current government".

So, would an invasion of America force Congress to give the President the full authority to stop an invasion of the US?

Bellerophon

@Mithrandir24601 It will still happen. They only plan on a 2nd referendum which they will lose.

Future Historian

You do not know that!

Brexit only won because younger voters SOMEHOW forgot to go to the ballot.

So, if anything, if the younger voters go out, they will win, and we are reversing the decision of the old buffoons that decided the future of Britain (and likely collapse).

Bellerophon

@FutureHistorian As a young Brit I would point out that you're wrong. Most (educated) young British voters voted. Many who didn't vote supported Brexit.

Future Historian

8:24 PM

Well, then we have a problem.

gulps

Well, Britain is officially going to die.

;(

SCPilot

Well, if we managed to wipe ourselves out, then the rats will take over. It'll take around oh say, 50,000 years, but oh well.

Future Historian

Scotland leaves, Northern Ireland leaves. Britain is dead.

Bellerophon

If they allowed 16 and 17 year olds to vote then they probably would win.

Mithrandir24601

@Bellerophon Literally everything I've seen and heard says the exact opposite

Bellerophon

@Mithrandir24601 ~5% of people in my school year support Brexit and nearly everyone in the years old enough to vote did vote. Admittedly that may be an unfairly high proportion as it is a grammar school which tend to be richer and so more people tend to vote.

SCPilot

8:28 PM

Actually, it has proven that roaches won't survive if there is a nuclear holocaust. They might be resistant to the radiation, but the sudden drop in temperatures caused by the following nuclear winter will kill them off.

Also, if you want to see a president who is ready to bash anyone, then take a look at Designated Survivor.

Mithrandir24601

I'm afraid you've lost me: "Many who didn't vote supported Brexit."
"5% of people in my school year support Brexit"
?

dot_Sp0T

8:49 PM

oh my

Bellerophon

@Mithrandir24601 Very few of that 5% would have voted. Compared to the percentage that didn't vote they make up ~60%.

Future Historian

9:46 PM

Hmmmmmmmm.

I wonder how a sixth generation fighter would work.

SCPilot

10:00 PM

Hm......Wouldn't a sixth generation fighter be space capable as well?

Shalvenay

hey there @Mithrandir24601

Mithrandir24601

Rytsas @Shalvenay

How're things?

Shalvenay

alright here, as for you?

Mithrandir24601

Pretty Good :) It's going to be a busy week, but it'll hopefully be a good one :)

Future Historian

That is what I was thinking of. @SCPilot.

Now the problem is..........

How capable are they when outside of Earth's atmosphere?

Suborbital or orbital?

HDE 226868

10:07 PM

Sixth-generation jet fighter

A sixth-generation jet fighter is a conceptualized class of fighter aircraft design more advanced than the fifth-generation jet fighters that are currently in service in the United States and in development in other countries. The United States Air Force (USAF) and United States Navy (USN) are anticipated to field their first sixth-generation fighters in the 2025–30 time frame. The USAF is pursuing development and acquisition of a sixth-generation fighter through the F-X program to complement existing platforms in service such as the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor. The USN is pursuing a similar program...

SCPilot

Hm...Maybe orbital. If you're looking for a lot of action in space. Also, maybe something similar to the fighters that could transform into a plane/robot hybrid or a giant mech in Macross and Robotech.

Future Historian

Meh.

HDE 226868

Space is a wee bit far off.

Future Historian

I am looking at a more...near future approach.

As in: within a 21st Century context.

SCPilot

Hm...I suggest Air Assault. There are several fighters that would certainly fit the 6th generation fighter category.

Oops! I mean Ace Combat!

Here we go: acecombat.wikia.com/wiki/CFA-44_Nosferatu

Future Historian

10:18 PM

Well, the problem with Ace Combat, though.

It is that A. It gets exaggerated on 6th Generation Fighters.

And B. Some of the models can be quite unrealistic.

Especially the giant fortresses and the like.

SCPilot

Hm...I see. Well the Nosferatu seems to be the most realistic in my opinion that is.

But yes you are correct: the giant fortresses are a bit farfletched. Of course, I do like them...but that's because I'm doing a scifi story myself.

Future Historian

But still, I do have an idea.

What if we can create two versions: one is a subsonic, optionally manned fighter and the other is a hypersonic, unmanned UCAV with suborbital flight capability?

Within the timespan of the 21st Century?

SCPilot

That actually works and sounds logical

The Nosferatu could work for the manned fighter since it looks realistic. As for a unmanned UCAV...hm...that one's tough.

Come to think of it, would humanity use atmospheric fighters in the 23rd century?

Future Historian

10:34 PM

Probably transatmospheric.

And I am talking in a more near-future context.

As in: 21st Century.

SCPilot

Okay. So, how would you design such a fighter? The only place I can find any examples of 6th generation fighters is Ace Combat, but like you say, a good many of those fighters are a bit unrealistic.

Future Historian

Well, I would probably make it capable of reaching hypersonic speeds.

And also a fully unmanned drone.

On top of that, I may also give it some suborbital flight capability. The problem is, how.

How am I going to add all those features in?

And you were referring to a transatmospheric one, were you not?

Well, I have an idea.

You ever heard of GURPS: Transhuman Space?

They have transatmospheric shuttles in there, but only for civilian uses.

SCPilot

Yes, I was referring to the transatmospheric one. Hm...

Future Historian

Perhaps you can retrofit them for more militaristic purposes.

SCPilot

I have heard of it, but I haven't read it yet.

That might work.

Shalvenay

10:42 PM

yeah, any craft with the T/W and heatshielding needed for transatmospheric shuttling service + a sturdy structure is going to be fairly well suited for mounting weapons on for combat purposes

Future Historian

Exactly.

Speaking of which, how would I do that with near-future technology?

Especially if it is a fully unmanned, hypersonic drone capable of suborbital flight?

For use as a fighter?

SCPilot

Hm....While I was looking for some more examples of 6th generation fighters, i came across this. Word of warning! Make sure your volume is turned down: youtube.com/watch?v=Qb0RHwJ6wEs

Shalvenay

the biggest issue is that it'd need to be a) variable geometry (to be able to do subsonic flight without going to an absurd AoA at slow speeds) and b) have extreme thrust to weight and good Isp over a very wild range of inlet conditions

SCPilot

Okay scratch that link. Just saw that it is a macross video so that won't work.

Future Historian

So, @Shalvenay? What is the closest real life equivalent to use as an example for such a variable geometry?

Shalvenay

10:47 PM

@FutureHistorian sadly, there isn't really one -- variable geometry + hypersonics I suspect is beyond the limits of what we have today for materials science

Future Historian

Well, can graphene do it?

Shalvenay

looking at how variable geometry is used to transition between subsonic and supersonic speeds in existing aircraft should provide a few clues at least though

Future Historian

Well, I do have one idea.

SCPilot

Unless you put in some sort of new type of material that has been undiscovered until today and this changes the nature of fighter technology.

Shalvenay

you'd also need a complex inlet geometry to manage the wide range of inlet conditions -- an inlet unstart at hypersonic speeds would suck

Future Historian

10:49 PM

Wing configuration

Fixed-wing aircraft, popularly called aeroplanes, airplanes, or just planes, may be built with many wing configurations. This page provides a breakdown of types, allowing a full description of any aircraft's wing configuration. For example, the Supermarine Spitfire wing may be classified as a conventional low wing cantilever monoplane with straight elliptical wings of moderate aspect ratio and slight dihedral. Sometimes the distinction between types is blurred, for example the wings of many modern combat aircraft may be described either as cropped compound deltas with (forwards or backwards) swept...

Shalvenay

(an inlet unstart means that the shockwave inside the inlet (or engine for scramjets) is spat back out the intake, with an ensuing extremely violent yaw)

Future Historian

Well, alright.

So, for that section on variable geometry, which would be useful for a hypersonic, suborbital flight-capable fighter UCAV?

Shalvenay

you'd basically want to sweep the wings as far back as possible (or even into the body altogether) for high speed flight

Future Historian

Fair enough.

That can work.

So, how do I keep those wings inside the aircraft?

Shalvenay

they'd retract into a dedicated space during high speed flight

Future Historian

10:53 PM

Well, that can work.

So, any real life equivalents that can come close?

Not put the wings inside the aircraft, but you know: that can come close?

Shalvenay

not really

Future Historian

Well, how would it look like?

That is the problem.

As in: I need an image to get an idea of how the aircraft is like.

Shalvenay

I'd envision something roughly similar to existing hypersonic craft as you'd need that lifting body form for adequate high-speed lift

Future Historian

Like this thing: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XCOR_Lynx or en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersonic_Technology_Vehicle_2?

Shalvenay

kinda yeah

Future Historian

10:57 PM

Which one?

Also, is there any way to make this work: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Falcon_Project#Blackswift?

Shalvenay

I'd look more towards present hypersonic vehicles

Future Historian

Well, got any ideas?

Shalvenay

Boeing X-51

The Boeing X-51 (or X-51 WaveRider) is an unmanned research scramjet aircraft for hypersonic flight at Mach 5 (3,300 mph; 5,300 km/h), an altitude of 70,000 feet (21,000 m). The aircraft was designated X-51 in 2005. It completed its first powered hypersonic flight on 26 May 2010. After two unsuccessful test flights, the X-51 completed a flight of over six minutes and reached speeds of over Mach 5 for 210 seconds on 1 May 2013 for the longest duration powered hypersonic flight. Waverider refers in general to aircraft that take advantage of compression lift produced by their own shock waves. The...

Future Historian

Oh........

Well, what about this thing: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_SR-72.

Shalvenay

what I'm trying to say is that form follows function somewhat here

Future Historian

11:06 PM

>:)

In which one?

The X-51 or SR-72?

Shalvenay

the X-51

Future Historian

Well, you do realise the X-51 was a demonstrator for the later (but cancelled) Blackswift. Correct?

Boeing X-51

The Boeing X-51 (or X-51 WaveRider) is an unmanned research scramjet aircraft for hypersonic flight at Mach 5 (3,300 mph; 5,300 km/h), an altitude of 70,000 feet (21,000 m). The aircraft was designated X-51 in 2005. It completed its first powered hypersonic flight on 26 May 2010. After two unsuccessful test flights, the X-51 completed a flight of over six minutes and reached speeds of over Mach 5 for 210 seconds on 1 May 2013 for the longest duration powered hypersonic flight. Waverider refers in general to aircraft that take advantage of compression lift produced by their own shock waves. The...

See?

Shalvenay

well, in terms of technical feasibility of the concept of a hypersonic air-breathing flying thing, yes

Future Historian

Well, I need one that also works for a suborbital flight.

So, you think the Blackswift could be useful in that (given some changes to the design and upgrades)?

SCPilot

From what I've read and been listening it would seem so @FutureHistorian

Shalvenay

11:11 PM

the body design could be

it'd require a leap forward in propulsion though -- you need something that can cleanly transition from air-breathing flight to self-massed flight

Future Historian

Well, I just need the body kept intact and change some of the features.

Well, can a nuclear reactor help?

looks at Project: Pluto for advice

Well, @Shalvenay?

Nuclear reactor or something else?

Shalvenay

ah, yeah -- nuclear-thermal or fusion-thermal is pretty much going to be a necessity as you need to decouple your heat source from your reaction mass source

Future Historian

So, this can work.

Correct?

Especially in an atmosphere and in LEO?

Shalvenay

I'd think so -- the major issues are powerplants and materials science (that, and the jet blast would be a nightmare...)

Future Historian

Well, I can live with that.

SCPilot

11:17 PM

Hm...Fusion thermal would be theoretically possible, so it's not really a stretch.

Future Historian

Well, I am using a nuclear fission thermal reactor, though fusion thermal could work.

Oh and question: would the fission thermal reactor work if it was....say a 2020 - 2030 timeframe?

Shalvenay

we've already stuck a fission reactor on a plane before, so yes

Future Historian

The problem is, it never entered active service.

And Project: Pluto was scrapped anyway.

And that would have had been fun to have in my opinion.

Same for Project: Orion (or Ol' Boom Boom as Nyrath calls it).

SCPilot

Probably would work in that timeframe. And it's odd that you mention that timeframe since I was planning on writing a story set around that time (although it lasts from 2028 - 2035)

Worldbuilding Meta

1

Q: How can i ask questions related to my characters?

How can i? I dont want to write only for my question to be put on hold for being off topic,But im stuck with my main characters,Also how does the sandbox work? How do i use that? Like a tag or i need to do something more complex?

support

SCPilot

11:26 PM

Wow, my question just popped up in the new feed items pop up. Neat. :)

Future Historian

Well, use the idea I had for a resurrected HTV-3X Blackswift.

It could be useful.

And with changes to the design.

SCPilot

Indeed. This discussion has given me some ideas for a couple of designs of mine as well.

Future Historian

What do you have in mind for said designs?

Oh and I suggest that if you want fusion, you push further into the future between 2040 - 2060 tops.

Since it turns out that nuclear fission is going to scare people a bit.

Shalvenay

@FutureHistorian even a design that uses secondary coolant in a HX in place of a jet combustor will scare people just from the sheer amount of heat output I reckon

Future Historian

Well, still.

Would it be scary enough to get environmentalists angry?

And I mean the anti-nuclear sort.

And for an environmentalist, I am not against nuclear technology at all.

The only issue is extracting uranium, which is what concerns me anyway.

Shalvenay

11:34 PM

Greenpeace would be annoyed but this is at "black project" levels anyway I reckon

Future Historian

Agreed.

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