The Frying Pan

@Stephie kinda knew it was happening. Got jerked around a lot, there was an utter lack of feedback, and one of the places is trying to get me to apply for stuff that's far below what someone with a degree should earn

apparently I'm being 'unrealistic' for telling them that their jobs are far below my salary expectations or even market rates for someone with nearly no qualifications.

ElendilTheTall

10:11 AM

tut

Jolenealaska

10:35 AM

I have been watching Game of Thrones with my buddy in the building. He's really enjoying it, so I am pleased to share it with him. But... I had no idea how "challenged" he would be.

ElendilTheTall

lol

"who's he again?"

"Where are we now?"

Jolenealaska

Exactly

ElendilTheTall

maddening

Jolenealaska

He can never remember Theon's name, he's "the guy who got his junk cut off"

Journeyman Geek

lol

ElendilTheTall

10:40 AM

lol

classy chap

Journeyman Geek

It is a story with an insanely large cast, and the need for one of those walls with strings to remind you who stabbed who in the back

Jolenealaska

There are 257 named characters (not serving wench #2) with actual dialog. That's pretty huge.

Journeyman Geek

yup

same reason I'm putting off the books too

ElendilTheTall

I thought serving wench #2's performance was exemplary in season 6 actually

Jolenealaska

:)

Watching him watch the Hodor reveal was painful. I had to explain it to him.

ElendilTheTall

11:01 AM

tum tee tum

this week has gone very, very slowly

very slowly

indeed

Jolenealaska

It has gone very fast for me.

ElendilTheTall

send me some of what you're having

:D

Jolenealaska

It comes with age :(

ElendilTheTall

i hear that

but only when you're not at work

Cindy

Hey guys!

Jolenealaska

11:04 AM

Hi Cindy

ElendilTheTall

hi @Cindy

what this place needs is canned audience reactions

Jolenealaska

Norm!

ElendilTheTall

prexactly

Cindy

Lol. It's been a long week.

I've had terrible headaches this week.

ElendilTheTall

o/

me too

migraine

Cindy

11:13 AM

Ouch!

Hopefully didn't last too long.

ElendilTheTall

no, not too bad

a day of headache, another day of muzzy weirdness, then back to my usual general depression and bemusement :)

Cindy

Mine was there Tuesday morning when I woke up and just kept getting worse. Pushed through and went to work yesterday. That is, until it got so bad it made me sick. Seems to be a bit better this morning. But it's early..... At least I can work from home today, prepping for a project.

Jolenealaska

11:51 AM

Have you ever had burdock root?

ElendilTheTall

only as a drink

Dandelion and Burdock

a bit like root beer

Jolenealaska

Interesting - I'm watching Chopped. The basket has both dandelion and burdock root.

Journeyman Geek

@ElendilTheTall I've never seen that outside the UK

ElendilTheTall

@JourneymanGeek root beer or D&B?

Journeyman Geek

Dandelion and Burdock

ElendilTheTall

11:57 AM

aye, it's peculiar to these Isles

but the taste is very similar

medicinal, slightly liquorice

Jolenealaska

Dandelion and burdock

Dandelion and burdock is a beverage consumed in the British Isles since the Middle Ages. It was originally a type of light mead, but over the years has evolved into the carbonated soft drink commercially available today. Traditionally it was made from fermented dandelion (Taraxacum officinale) and burdock (Arctium lappa) roots, hence the name. It is believed that both plants are beneficial to healthy liver function. == History == Dandelion and burdock shares a historical origin with a number of drinks originally made from lightly fermented root extracts, such as root beer and sarsaparilla...

Interesting article

ElendilTheTall

1:19 PM

@Cindy hi there

how's the project prep going?

Cindy

1:36 PM

@ElendilTheTall Hey there! Just getting started. It's mostly organizing materials.

ElendilTheTall

is this for work or personal

Cindy

Work. A project we're going to be doing in one of the dept. store chains.

ElendilTheTall

cool, cool

Cindy

Yeah. It's nice to be able to work from home sometimes. :)

ElendilTheTall

Tell me about it

Cindy

1:47 PM

Looks like a trip to an office supply store may be in order. Shame there's not one close.

ElendilTheTall

America - where nothing is close

Cindy

Lol! There's not much of anything here.

ElendilTheTall

wandering the dunes of Virginia

Cindy

2:04 PM

Haha. Not too far off! ;)

ElendilTheTall

Cindy of Virginia

@Cindy seen any of my latest photos? Taken quite a few since December

start here and go left: 500px.com/photo/188853491/…

Cindy

@ElendilTheTall And go figure - this is the largest city in Virginia and the 14th largest in the country. By area, that is. Population is < 90k.

@ElendilTheTall I haven't. Going to take a peek now. :)

@ElendilTheTall Beautiful shots! Can't pick just one for a favorite!

ElendilTheTall

2:23 PM

didn't ask you to ;)

i wouldn't place such massive pressure on your slender shoulders ;)

Cindy

Lol!

Jolenealaska

This is remarkable:

en.akinator.com/personnages/propose

So far it has correctly guessed Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Sandra Bullock, Morgan Freeman, Bobby Flay, Princess Leia, Princess Di and Cinderella.

And Ted Bundy

ElendilTheTall

the power of exponentiality in action

Jolenealaska

2:40 PM

It finally missed one. It guessed Bill Gates instead of Alton Brown.

ElendilTheTall

it's just querying an ever narrower database

Journeyman Geek

ooh

ElendilTheTall

or rather, querying the same database with ever more specific questions

Journeyman Geek

I know how to break it

ElendilTheTall

DROP *;

:D

Journeyman Geek

2:42 PM

ok. that is scary

"is the charecter indian"

WHAT?

"is the charecter from south india"

oh, k.

we're in creepy ville

ElendilTheTall

how many questions in were you?

Journeyman Geek

then it goes wierd

19

ElendilTheTall

well

Journeyman Geek

but its getting further and further off

it got it right 0_0

yeah,pretty impressive 20 questions ;p

Jolenealaska

It correctly guessed Peter Dinklage and Anne Burrell

ElendilTheTall

2:47 PM

yes

it's a big database

lol

why would it not guess Peter Dinklage?

Is the character male, yes

bang, 50% of the database gone

Journeyman Geek

it guessed rajni kanth.

00h

ElendilTheTall

is the character an actor, yes, bang, another huge percentage gone

Jolenealaska

I just added the names to the list. Anne Frank too

ElendilTheTall

is the character American, yes, bang, another huge percentage gone, and so on

Jolenealaska

Sure. I still find it impressive.

ElendilTheTall

2:50 PM

I just made it go wrong by thinking of a relatively little known evolutionary biologist

and surprise surprise, it asked me to enter who it was

so it's a big, crowd sourced, ever evolving database

rumtscho

3:19 PM

It didn't guess Kurt Gödel though

it is just well trained to guess the kind of people the average Internet user with time on their hands thinks of

I have used it before

and back then, the second question wasn't "is your character famous because of Youtube"

ElendilTheTall

what a pair of grumpy techno-cynics we are @rumtscho

there's @Jolenealaska all starry-eyed and we shoot it out of sky xD

rumtscho

On the other hand, it guessed Zhelyu Zhelev - I am impressed

that's a former Bulgarian president

so it needed to narrow it in at the beginning, of course

even asking several times if he is dead or alive

and asking if he is from mythology after it learned he is real

but once it had "former president" it did not start asking more specific questions

but just shot out this one

ElendilTheTall

Perhaps it does masses of background research based on your ad-bubble data while it distracts you with inane questions

it knows you're a young Bulgarian woman kayaker with the cheekbones of a Greek goddess ;)

rumtscho

if it does, it hides it well

Journeyman Geek

it guessed indian

which was interesting

then it asked it it was a korean singer ._.

rumtscho

3:32 PM

oh, I got the Indian question once or twice too

probably reflects that the userbase thinks frequently enough of Indian persons

and yes, I got contradictory questions sometimes

and the same question more than once in longer games

but that is normal, it cannot go by pure logic, because it cannot trust that the answerer will be 100% consistent

Jefromi

That has been around over ten years, so it's going to have been told basically everything at all obvious to people by now.

Journeyman Geek

heh

I got a "its not a charecter"

weighted companion cube FTW

rumtscho

I think it is very susceptible to a power law

it can probably guess the most famous of the famous with 3-4 questions

but niche celebrities are tough for it

and then there are new celebrities cropping up every year

Journeyman Geek

took 50 for that

quite impressive ;p

@Jefromi that probably helps

Jolenealaska

It's way past my bedtime, guys. G'night!

ElendilTheTall

3:40 PM

night hon

rumtscho

Now that was a nice pairing of questions, one after the other

"is your character a brunette" - yes. "is your character a skeleton"

ElendilTheTall

ah, Keira Knightley

rumtscho

(I have already had to confirm that it is a real person, and still alive)

Jefromi

If you really want to stump it, just find a list of a bunch of very similar people.

rumtscho

niche-known people work too

they are known enough to be in his database

but he has too little info on them

I just defeated him with Emmanuelle Charpentier

(the brunette who is not a skeleton)

Jefromi

3:46 PM

Niche it can easily learn, though, just has to learn their answers to existing questions. If you want it to stay stumped, you want people where it's hard for it to tell the difference between them using the questions it knows how to ask.

rumtscho

she is probably going to get a Nobel within the next decade, and then her celebrity status will explode

but for now it seems to know so little of her, she was not even on the list it showed me in the end with his guesses

but she was in the database when he asked me to enter my person

Jefromi

I think I found some bad data in its database, I gave it a hockey player and among other things it asked if they ever played for the Red Wings (no) and it ultimately guessed Brendan Shanahan, and in the photo it used, he's wearing a Red Wings jersey :)

rumtscho

do hockey players exchange jerseys after a game?

also, maybe he played for them for a short time, but neither you nor the average akinator player knows it

akinator doesn't need data on what is true about a person, it needs data on what people say about a person

Stephie

o/

Jefromi

nah he played for them for ten years, it was the most successful part of his career (three stanley cups)

Stephie

3:51 PM

@ElendilTheTall lol

Jefromi

It has to have just ignored the answer to that question or have bad data.

rumtscho

@Jefromi now I am confused. You said "it asked if they ever played for the Red Wings (no)" - do you mean you gave an answer you knew to be wrong?

ElendilTheTall

@Stephie I'm glad someone liked it ;)

rumtscho

and yes, it does ignore questions

which is fully normal

ElendilTheTall

I can always trust @Stephie to be as cruel and sarcastic as me

Jefromi

3:53 PM

anyways, it's nowhere close after 50+ questions and there are tons more people basically like him, so it's not gonna be able to do well even if I teach it this one.

(and yes, this canadian professional hockey player does have human skin)

rumtscho

because people are likely to be feeding it bad answers, on purpose or because they don't know the real answer, or because they misclicked, etc.

Jefromi

sure, but it was one of the few genuinely distinguishing questions it asked

which is kind of what I was saying about how to really stump it: for some sets of people, it just doesn't know enough questions it can use to distinguish them.

rumtscho

maybe

In principle, "former Bulgarian presidents" should have been such a set

so maybe this is why it shot a guess out instead of trying to differentiate further

and maybe this guy is more salient than others

he was our first proper president after the wall fell

Jefromi

4:10 PM

There's only one at a time, though, so it's not that big a set, and there's an easy axis to narrow things down on.

rumtscho

but it didn't even try

Jefromi

It presumably knows well enough how to ask about age that it'll be able to learn them with the existing question set.

rumtscho

it shot out a name right after "is he a former president"

Jefromi

well, maybe it's dumber than it has to be :) but in principle, it could learn to tell pretty easily.

time to find out how wet I get today!

current batch of rain just about blown past

rumtscho

I first read this as "time to find out how wet I gOt today"

and wondered why you don't already know it :)

derobert

4:23 PM

@Stephie 50/50 white flour/whole grain flour

Stephie

@derobert cool.

derobert

@Jolenealaska Took it 50 questions (and one wrong guess of Michael Jackson) to get Death. Wonder if it'll take it 70 to get the Death of Rats...

Journeyman Geek

which death? ;p

derobert

@JourneymanGeek Discworld

Journeyman Geek

discworld?

ah

derobert

4:35 PM

It's possibly I confused it by telling it Death is real—which of course he is, that's how he can walk through walls, he wins in a realness competition against the wall.

Journeyman Geek

I was thinking the death of the endless ;p

derobert

Oh, looking at the game report, it clearly was thinking of some other Death.

And it failed at the Death of Rats

Had to add it in.

Catija

5:10 PM

DEATH speaks in all caps.

Jefromi

6:01 PM

@Catija Dᴇᴀᴛʜ speaks in small caps :)

@rumtscho Turns out the answer is not at all, was a plenty long gap in the rain!

unlike yesterday, when it was clear most of the way then suddenly the last 5 minutes were pouring with strong gusty winds and a little bit of hail

rumtscho

ouchies!

and that from the place where people wear board shorts the year round.

Jefromi

haha, it's supposed to be a bit gray and rainy in the winter here, but yeah, storms like that are pretty rare (and it only lasted 20 minutes or something)

Stephie

Does anyone know the baking temp for pound cake off the cuff?

Jefromi

probably 350F/180C?

probably can also find recipes at 375F/190C?

rumtscho

I can't remember any special number, so I must be baking it at 175C

the only cookbook I have in this place is Beranbaum's cake bible, and it says 350 F

Stephie

6:15 PM

350F or a bit less. Fits my memory of 160C or up to 175.

Thanks!

Some days, one simply has to bake a cake.

rumtscho

ah, one of those days

what cake are you making?

Jefromi

is that an "I need dessert" day or an "I need to bake" day?

Stephie

@rumtscho A basic pound cake (hence no open recipe book) with the zest of one orange. The juice will go into the glace.

@Jefromi both! >.<

rumtscho

so, simple orange flavoring, and a powdered sugar glaze?

Stephie

@rumtscho yep.

Rare for me to bake something "non yeasty".

Catija

6:19 PM

I have no kitchen. :(

Stephie

@Catija WHAT?!?

rumtscho

Then enjoy your cake!

@Catija how long will it take for them to finish it?

Catija

3 weeks for most of it and another three to finish completely.

I'm getting a new stove!

Stephie

Ah!

Catija

Samsung NX58H9500WS Slide-In Stainless Steel Gas Range with 5 Sealed Burners, 30-Inch amazon.com/dp/B00LMVFL6E/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_-vLGyb1Z7H24A

It has a proofing setting in the oven.

Jefromi

6:24 PM

and so you can go write a smartass answer to cooking.stackexchange.com/q/2276/1672 saying "just use the proofing setting"

Catija

Ha ha ha!

My baking is probably going to suck for a while. :/

Stephie

@Catija don't I know the feeling...

That's the nice bit about bread etc.:

Just fire the oven as high as it will go and you're good ;-)

@Catija took me almost two years to adjust to the one I'm currently using.

And I'm still pining for the one parked in my basement.

rumtscho

you have a nice oven in your basement and cannot use it?

Stephie

@rumtscho sort of.

My current one is the simpler version. Came with the house.

rumtscho

6:55 PM

What makes it "simpler"?

Remember, you are talking to somebody whose grandma regressed from using a very simple countertop oven (full-sized, not sold as "toaster") to a wood fired oven. No thermostat or anything.

Stephie

This one has the basic settings like top-/bottom heat, fan assisted and grill and knobs / dials.

The other also is self-cleaning (!) and a bunch of programs, like selecting a start / stop time. Which was really handy with the kids etc.

Plus a digital temperature setting. Here, it's kind of vague whether the oven & I interpret the "dots" on the knob in the same way.

rumtscho

what do you use for stove cooking?

Glass-ceramic.

And do you like it?

Yes, think so.

7:08 PM

I was mostly used to standard resistive, with metal plates

then got my portable induction thing and started loving it over all else I've tried

Stephie

Never had the chance to test induction.

rumtscho

but in this house, the husband is a passionate cook (although he doesn't bake at all) and he has gas

a nice, real gas stove, not a camping version

and I may yet convert my preferences to that

Stephie

Cool!

rumtscho

Induction is better than any resistive I've tried, both metal plate and ceran plate

but the problem is, it is very "local"

Stephie

I've used gas occasionally but hubby totally vetoed the idea for our homes.

rumtscho

7:11 PM

when I boil water in it, the bubbles form exactly above the coil

I thought gas would be similar with its ring, but no, its warmth spreads through the pan better. Even with pans which shouldn't be too sensitive to that (iron).

why did he veto it?

induction is still quicker than gas, more responsive

especially in the adding-heat direction

but the evenness is starting to win me over

Stephie

@rumtscho Danger of open flames. And I see his point. I would probably have burned a few towels etc. by now. Now that the minors start to cook, sometimes even without supervision, I feel a lot safer.

rumtscho

Is it really that dangerous?

My parents have a camping-style gas stove in addition to the electric plates on top of the oven

I can't remember ever having had a dangerous situation

and I cooked there as a child too (although I don't remember at which age I started using the gas - probably not before school age)

Stephie

@rumtscho I'm no expert user, but I've had close calls. Singed the loose end of a tea towel when lifting a pot down, for example.

I shudder to think what my kids would do if suddenly facing a burning piece of fabric. Not sure they would simply stay cool and put it in the sink.

rumtscho

OK, now I am thinking if we ever singed anything...

Jefromi

@rumtscho aren't camping stoves usually a carbon monoxide hazard? All the ones I've seen here are plastered with warnings about not using inside.

rumtscho

7:25 PM

I don't know the exact state of the matter.

It can be that it is a small stove intended for inside use, but because it is so portable, I assumed it was sold as portable

or it can be that it is a hazard, but nobody knew or cared about it 30 years ago in a socialist state

my parents' model is from East Germany

my grandparents (both sets) have a Bulgarian-produced model, which was very popular at the time, many households had it

so if there is danger, it is not like "you will suffocate once per 1000 uses" or so

I also don't know if it is up to the mixture being burned

OK, now that you said it, I found the user manual of the most popular model online

the Bulgarian one

it does say that it should be used outdoors only

but does not say why

I am pretty sure the stove itself has no stickers about it

I grew up with most households having one, and using it inside

so I guess nobody ever realized what this is about, and nobody cared for what the user manual says

Jefromi

I dunno how high the risk is, or if the manufacturers there are aware people use them inside and maybe are a little more careful that they burn cleanly or something.

rumtscho

I don't know what the reality is

the user manual also says

Jefromi

I know that people have died in the US using camping stoves in their tents, dunno how common.

(most people don't go camping, and tents are worse than residences, so, hard to know a risk even if I did have numbers)

rumtscho

"the use of the gas apparatus can only be done by persons over 18, gone through a medical test, a test of their knowledge about gas-related security organized by a safety commission"

"people who have contact with the gas apparatus must know and follow the requirements of Order Nr. 29 for the setup and safe usage of gas apparatus and installations, from Government's newspaper, issue 27 and issue 28 from 1978"

I suppose that anybody going through this manual will think "bureaucrats gone crazy again" and will gloss over any of the repeated suggestions to only use the thing in the open, especially if most households they know ignore it too

also, a kitchen is much, much larger than a tent

and nobody lies down to sleep in it

it may be that we have waded in monooxide for years, but nothing happened, because it did not fill up the room

although, if that's the case, I guess we (and others, especially people with tiny kitchens) should have noticed symptoms in the cats

in the end, I don't know what's the engineering difference between a gas burning stove for inside and outside

maybe the producers created one good enough for inside, but never bothered to go through certification for it

Stephie

7:41 PM

@rumtscho it may be that doors and windows (and even walls) may have been less air-tight than today.

rumtscho

@Stephie somewhat, yes, but many people did not live under optimal ventilation conditions

for example, many lived (and still live) in tiny panel-built highrise buildings, and they tend to glass in their balconies to use them as an additional room

in that case, the kitchen is frequently the room behind the balcony, and then its door and windows lead to another closed room, not to outside

our own kitchen also did not lead directly to outside, but its two doors opened to an inside corridor on the one side and to a storage room on the other side (the storage room then had a door to the outside)

and it has a single tiny window high up, because its only outer wall is to the north

Jefromi

My impression was always that when working well, stoves produce minimal carbon monoxide, so you need a combination of lack of ventilation with unlucky incomplete combustion.

but don't quote me on that :)

rumtscho

maybe that's it, to the point to which it produces any monooxide, it probably dissipates through a room of many cubic meters in a way which is impossible in a tent

and I think it is not toxic as such, right? The problem comes when it replaces air, but the mere presence of its molecules shouldn't do damage if there is sufficient oxygen (if I remember it right, but maybe I don't, this is a bit vague)

> Carbon monoxide poisoning occurs after breathing in too much carbon monoxide (CO). Symptoms of mild acute poisoning include lightheadedness, confusion, headache, feeling like the world is spinning, and flu-like effects

If you drink every evening, you may even not notice you are also poisoning yourself in your kitchen :)

> Chronic exposure to low levels of carbon monoxide can lead to depression, confusion, and memory loss.

ditto

OK, I was wrong, it is toxic even if you get enough oxygen

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