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Jolenealaska
Jolenealaska
12:26 AM
Great line from Game of Thrones, season two, episode seven I believe. Jamie, still a prisoner, speaking to an ex-squire of his: "It's a good thing I am who I am; I would have been useless at anything else."
 
user116848
Yep!
 
user116848
I got a sore throat and I feel like shit today.
 
user116848
I better take a good dose of medicine and go to sleep forever.
 
user116848
Nighty night.
 
Jolenealaska
Jolenealaska
G'night
 
 
6 hours later…
Jolenealaska
Jolenealaska
6:32 AM
Hi guys. Please keep an eye on this question (and VTC if you can and care to) cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/66273/….
He edited the comment right after writing it, but not before I got the notification. Although, I suppose it's possible that someone other than the OP wrote the comment and deleted it minutes later.
@Jefromi
If it's going to get nasty, I'd like to quickly pounce on it.
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
7:05 AM
Odd that all the other votes were primarily opinion-based despite the comments about it being a recipe request :)
 
Jolenealaska
Jolenealaska
"recipe request" isn't one of the options that pops up, at least not in the first menu that comes up after hitting "vote to close"
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
It's a subchoice of "off topic".
That's where custom close reasons go.
 
Jolenealaska
Jolenealaska
I thought so, but I just went with the flow and chose opinion based since 2 or 3 already had.
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
Yeah, no worries.
Recipe requests are opinion-based and/or broad anyway; the close reason exists mainly to be able to say we just don't take them, and sidestep debate over exactly how subjective or broad it is.
6
Q: Should we revise the recipe recommendation close reason to include menu planning?

JefromiRecipe recommendations and menu planning essentially have the same problem on different scales. With recipe recommendations, there are a lot of different variations on a given recipe. With menu planning questions, there are a lot of different dishes you could decide to make. Either way, it's diff...

discussion close-reasons
Also it's not super clear what constitutes "recipe request" vs "what to do with X" vs "meal planning" and so on, hence that attempt to try to broaden it up a bit and make it easier to use.
I'm super happy that that one got up to 4 close votes before I voted though!
Didn't really even need a mod.
 
Jolenealaska
Jolenealaska
Yep. Closing happens fastest when the OP is not being civil. On that note, can you tell if my screenshot above was actually written by the OP? I don't want to leave the "Be Nice" scold if it was actually written by someone else.
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
7:18 AM
oh whoa missed that
Was that posted then edited?
 
Jolenealaska
Jolenealaska
Yes, or possibly deleted then replaced within a couple of minutes.
I'm only 95% sure it was actually the OP.
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
It wasn't deleted. Given that it's from that post, and it's in your inbox, it had to have been the OP (can't have been you, and Stephie's comment wasn't edited and I'm preeeetty sure she didn't say that).
 
Jolenealaska
Jolenealaska
Then yes, the OP edited it out before I finished my response.
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
7:32 AM
All right, let us just say that that is super duper not cool and moderators are aware of the situation.
@Jolenealaska Thanks for grabbing the screenshot.
 
Jolenealaska
Jolenealaska
I'm glad I could. When it disappeared from the question, I wasn't sure if I hadn't just imagined it :)
 
 
5 hours later…
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
12:25 PM
:(
Voted in the elections. Only voted 2 people tho
 
Stephie
Stephie
12:56 PM
@Jefromi Guessed correctly... ;-)
If I disagree, I can express my thoughts more civil. At least I hope so.
 
user116848
Evening guys.
 
Stephie
Stephie
Evening (?), @Arrowfar!
 
user116848
Oh, um it is 5:59 pm here, okay, 1 minute till evening :-)
 
Stephie
Stephie
Right... Probably evening at your place already. Time flies...
 
user116848
Yes, it does.
 
Stephie
Stephie
1:02 PM
So what have you been up to today?
 
user116848
I have a bit of fever and sore throat so been sleeping a lot this weekend :-)
 
user116848
You? How are you?
 
Stephie
Stephie
Awwwww, poor @Arrowfar!
Kids are sick, too. Son's getting better, now it seems daughter's turn.
Pediatrician tomorrow, I guess.
 
user116848
Oh yeah winters suck that way.
 
user116848
I hope they get well soon.
 
Stephie
Stephie
1:05 PM
Son keeps coughing and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the doc won't say "pneumonia" tomorrow. Been there, done that. Not funny.
 
user116848
Yesterday I drank 7 up plus ate some greasy burger after that I got sick immediately. Silly me.
 
user116848
So it is my fault :)
 
Stephie
Stephie
Oh, so two things? Cold and indigestion? Really "poor Arrowfar"!
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
woof
 
user116848
@Stephie Oh no my stomach is fine, thank God! I mean the greasy burger and drink gave me cold and fever.
 
user116848
1:11 PM
@JourneymanGeek Hello!
 
Stephie
Stephie
@JourneymanGeek <jumps> You scared me!
@Arrowfar that is a very interesting medical theory....?
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Arrowfar ._.
 
Stephie
Stephie
Awwwwww, cute!
 
user116848
Nice!
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Arrowfar You should have added more tabasco
(dog wash. Remarkably useful thing to have near a dog park)
 
user116848
1:13 PM
@JourneymanGeek I see.
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Arrowfar Hot food cures anything
Except a upset tummy, but that means you are weak, and will die when there's a slight smattering of asteroids.
 
Stephie
Stephie
@JourneymanGeek like the showers (for humans) on the beaches in California?
(Currently out of order due to the drought.)
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Stephie its got dog shampoo, conditioner, tick wash and a fur dryer ;p
 
Stephie
Stephie
@JourneymanGeek oh, even better!
 
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
(he actually likes it, usually starts grinning once the water warms up a bit)
 
 
4 hours later…
Catija
Catija
5:29 PM
So... what's the deal about "questions need to be about processes that might actually be used in a kitchen" or something like that?
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
@Catija hmm?
who said this?
 
Catija
Catija
For some reason I thought that we had some sort of rule about questions needing real-world application or... something like that?
I don't remember where I saw it... I feel it may have been in comments on a question that was hypothetical in some way... not certain.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
I am not 100% sure. There is a "questions have to be about a real world problem" rule for Stack Overflow, and this gets copied into the standard text of each site, but there are sites which outright close such questions, such as Health and Law, so it is not really network wide.
I think we can use it if somebody comes up with some weird question like "if I had to feed a tyrannosaur, how should I hack the bones of the animals I prepare"
 
Catija
Catija
Ah. Hmmm.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
but if we have a question about something unusual, like "how to set up a rotovap for better orange juice aromatics extraction", I wouldn't want to close it for that rule, even though 99.999999999% of people out there don't have a rotovap
Is there some special question which made you wonder about the rule?
 
Catija
Catija
5:36 PM
Mostly that potato peeling one.
I think it's sort of dumb and... would probably fit better on... um... that "hacks" site.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
Ah, that one. I dislike the question too.
 
Catija
Catija
14
Q: How to quickly peel a bag of potatoes

michaelpriThere have been several times that I have had to make a huge potato salad or a lot of mashed potatoes in a short amount of time. I usually have to use an entire bag of potatoes (I have a big family). I am pretty good at doing everything except peeling the potatoes. Is there any way to quickly pee...

food efficiency time
In fact, it's already been answered there.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
I don't see it as closable, it's more of a question without an answer, AFAIK
Also, the question does have a real world application, and is not hypothetical. I think it's mostly annoying because the OP requests that we tell him how to have free lunch, even if he should know that there is no free lunch.
 
Catija
Catija
The cheese sauce guy finally edited his question... and I think it's made it even more confusing now.
I really do think he's created some sort of crazy hybrid of the two methods.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
well, actually, there is one "traditional" method that I know of: making bechamel with roux.
Everything else is... something else
and probably works well
but the French sauce taxonomists are strict people
 
Catija
Catija
5:42 PM
I've found recipes for "beurre manie" to be used for cheese sauce... but I agree... it's an odd method...
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
so I doubt that either the method you would use nor the method the OP uses has a name in that taxonomy
 
Catija
Catija
Yeah. I'm editing my answer to cover that information.
 
Cindy
Cindy
Just weighing in on the cheese question. I think this is nitpicking. The guy is asking for help with terminology so he obviously isn't going to be able to describe things in the best way. He edited his question to include the heat factor. It seems pretty clear he's making a roux and then adding milk.
BTW, hi @Catija and @rumtscho!
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
@Cindy I find it very clear that he isn't making a roux. And his question is about nitpicking itself
 
Cindy
Cindy
How is he not making a roux?
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
5:49 PM
A roux has to be cooked through before it is used
kneading flour into cold butter is a beurre manie, not a roux
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
Not sure he actually realized he was asking for nitpicking... I think maybe he just thought that there was a simple canonical way to make cheese sauce and thought he'd get that, not all the super-picky French stuff.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
@Jefromi Hm? He's not asking for ways to make cheese sauce, he's asking for the name of the way he is using
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
Sure, he asked that, but he also asked traditional way etc.
 
Catija
Catija
@rumtscho But he is heating it... he's putting it in a pan and heating it and then adding the milk... kneading is certainly unnecessary for maknig roux but he's certainly not using it as a traditional beurre manié
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
So I think it was maybe curiosity about French name for one thing (if it exists) and then just asking a naive question beyond that.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
5:54 PM
@Catija he can't be heating it during the kneading, else the butter will be liquid and permit no kneading
so he must be heating it after he has finished making the beurre manie, when the milk comes in
 
Catija
Catija
@rumtscho No, he's heating it when he puts it in the pan first before adding milk.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
which means that he did not make a roux
@Catija I don't see how this is consistent with kneading
 
Catija
Catija
But is there a reason you can't knead them together before cooking a roux?
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
you can stir flour into kneaded butter, but not knead it
 
Catija
Catija
> The flower mixture is mixed in a sauce pan. I use about two spoonfuls of flour and about two spoonfuls of butter. On a gentle heat the milk is gently stirred into.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
5:55 PM
@Catija no. But you have to cook them before adding anything else to get the "roux" label.
 
Catija
Catija
He heats the pan with the butter in them... and adds the milk.
That's not how you use a beurre manie...
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
@Catija no, it certainly is not how it is used, usually
@Catija I cant imagine that hes doing that. If yes, then hes not kneadng.
I understood that to mean that he mixes/kneads it first, and turns the heat on after that, when starting with the milk
@Jefromi I overlooked that part. Now that I saw it, I understand the close vote. Maybe we should remove some of the questions on the end?
 
Catija
Catija
If the milk is "stirred into" then the butter/flour mixture is already in the pan.
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
Maybe suggest splitting?
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
@Jefromi "Which is the correct way to make cheese sauce" is closable. Any way which produces a cheese sauce is correct.
 
Catija
Catija
5:59 PM
@Jefromi But his comments on the original answer seem to show he's looking for the terminology
0
A: Making cheese sauce

PparekhhYes, you're right. That is the traditional way of making cheese sauce. You can use the same recipe when making lasagne too, however it depends on the type of lasagne your making. A traditional lasagne would use white sauce along with a tomato sauce. White sauce follows the same steps in making as...

 
Jefromi
Jefromi
@Catija I think he's asking more than one thing.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
Is it "traditional" also looks unanswerable to me
whose tradition?
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
"what is this technique" and the problematic question rumtscho is talking about but which is possibly salvageable (e.g. is there a canonical french cheese sauce or something, I don't know)
 
Catija
Catija
He's asking for the name/method of making the sauce for lasagna? Perhaps that could be the separate question?
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
if in a given region there are two groups which make cheese sauces in different ways, which one is the traditional one and which the untraditional one?
 
Catija
Catija
6:01 PM
That is certainly the bechamel, though not all recipes use it.
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
@rumtscho I understand why "what's traditional" is problematic. That doesn't mean there's no valid question there that'd help the OP though.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
@Catija Given that the correct sauce for lasagna is the one described in your recipe, I don't see why this should be a separate question.
I've seen a lasagna which uses pure mascarpone, nothing else
also, I am not even sure that most people will notice a difference in taste between the sauce he is making and a bechamel made the way the French chefs prescribe it
 
Catija
Catija
@rumtscho Sure... and mine uses only ricotta... it's a matter of what region you're looking for.
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
Y'all know more about it than me, just suggesting considering splitting (and tweaking) as an alternative to removing parts of the question if possible.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
so making a question which proclaims that the right sauce for lasagna is bechamel, and another which tells him that his sauce is not bechamel is going to be misleading.
@Jefromi what would you suggest as the core question in the separated part?
 
Catija
Catija
6:03 PM
@rumtscho Well, the "is this the sauce used for lasagna" seems to be sort of a sideline. I'd consider the main question to be "is there a name for this method I'm using to make cheese sauce?".
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
@Catija yes, I agree with that. And if we are going to split the question, that part stays as-is.
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
I don't know, I didn't think it actually needed removal or splitting, but y'all seem not happy. I only said it because I think the first consideration should always be "how do we ask for this information in a constructive way?" not "the question as asked is bad".
 
Catija
Catija
@Jefromi I'm not happy because he's not being clear enough in what he's asking and he keeps saying "flower" instead of "flour" :P
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
@Jefromi what is "this information" that is asked about?
The "what is the name" one is clear, I have nothing against it
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
@rumtscho I really haven't thoroughly read this or thought about it as much as y'all have.
I was responding very generally to your "maybe we should remove some of the questions".
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
6:05 PM
The other things he seems to be asking about is "am I doing the right thing"
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
That said, naively, it looks like you might be able to just turn it into "what is the French name for what I'm doing (if it exists), what is the traditional French flour+milk+cheese sauce (if it exists) and are any of these used in lasagna (even if there are other things you can put in lasagna)?"
i.e. don't get caught up in "what is the best tradition" or "what is the one true lasagna"
 
Catija
Catija
@Jefromi Yeah, I think that makes sense. But the second part doesn't seem like it should be part of the first question... we can answer it in one because they're related but a Bechamel isn't a cheese sauce... so the lasagna question is a bit off to the side.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
"are any of these used in lasagna" seems to lead either to "there is one true lasagna and it does not use it" or "all lasagnas are true, and if you use it in lasagna, then it is used in lasagna, if you personally don't, then maybe there is somebody else in the world but we can't know it", neither of which seems to make for a good question.
As for the main cheese sauce in the French tradition, this can be made its own question indeed
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
Okay well I edited to make the questions less bad, fix the flower thing, and consolidate the bad description and slightly better description.
I do not have strong opinions about split vs not and so on, just want to make sure we answer what we can.
 
Catija
Catija
I think the edit is good. And you fixed the knead thing, too :D
Can you imagine "kneeing the flower and butter together"? It makes for an interesting mental image.
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
6:13 PM
Oh haha, I wasn't reading that as past tense knee, I just saw misspelled knead.
Agreed probably not the best way to make a roux.
(or a whatever)
I'm not fancy and French.
 
Catija
Catija
Change of topic... @Jefromi on your meta dupe question... do dupes on main sites require that the dupe have an answer? I know that on Meta.SE they've had some discussion about the dupe text saying "has an answer" when there often isn't one.
Also, does an answer like this just get a DV? I don't know if it's not really an answer so much as it simply is bad... cooking.stackexchange.com/a/66290/33128
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
6:28 PM
@Catija I think it is more of a NAA
 
Catija
Catija
OK... I guess it's also link-only, which is generally problematic.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
it just seems to suggest a completely new recipe
I have always seen these "use this recipe I love" answers as NAA
the OP cannot be asking for a recipe, because that's off topic anyway
and this answer does not seem to just mention the recipe as an example, it does not say anything except that the recipe linked is good
 
Catija
Catija
Hmmm... but some of the time, the best solution is to find a recipe that uses the ingredients you have rather than trying to adjust a recipe you have to match the ingredients... but I've had issues with this general sort of question in the past... not that I've not asked them myself.
Some solutions are simple... like adding acid to milk to make a buttermilk substitute... but I'm not a huge fan of "I really like this vanilla cake recipe, what can I do to turn it into a rich chocolate cake?"
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
Yes, I don't like this type of question either
but then the answer is to tell them that they should be looking for a different recipe, not to tell them "use my favorite recipe instead"
 
Catija
Catija
Yes. And that's what I usually do... though in comments.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
6:33 PM
I do it as an answer, because in my eyes, that is the answer
 
Catija
Catija
Hmmm interesting.
I do think that the "turn boxed brownie mix into cake" is interesting from a testing point of view... I know what makes brownies different... density, not a lot (if any) leavening, higher chocolate to flour ratio... so it seems like it could be interesting to test a bunch of different methods to convert... but it would take a bunch of work... and I don't use boxed mixes anyway... :P
And it'd probably only apply to a specific mix, since they're all likely to be pretty different.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
I would still see "use a cake recipe to make a cake, and bake brownies with this mix" as the most practicable solution, and as such, it certainly has a place among the answers
 
Catija
Catija
Right... but this person is in a position of not having that option.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
if somebody knows how to tweak it into a cake, great, that's also an answer. But seeing that the result will almost certainly be less tasty than a cake made from a tested and tried recipe, each alternative has its own upsides.
 
Catija
Catija
Yeah.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
6:40 PM
@Catija if the person does not have the time to run to the store to get a box of cake mix, he also does not have the time to wait for somebody to test with a few boxes of mixes, or for a rare somebody who has done it before to come visit the site and write an answer
 
Catija
Catija
Certainly. In the 9 hours since they asked the question, they could have easily gone to the store and bought a new box... that's one of the downsides of this Q&A system. The answers are seldom immediate, and those that are, aren't always great.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
well, that's true for everybody who happens to be the first to face a problem
once the documentation for overcoming is available, the answer is available immediately for the next person
 
Catija
Catija
The benefit is for people who come subsequently and can see the answers already here.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
this is the whole reason why Jeff started the network
he was a young programmer who was still learning a lot
then he realized that most of the problems he has are problems into which most young programmers have run at some time
and when searching for their solutions, he frequently found descriptions of the problem they faced, but not descriptions of the solution
 
Catija
Catija
Ah. Interesting. I've not really looked into the history of the site much. I know my husband uses SO constantly but he doesn't even have an account. And he's not a "young programmer".... he's been doing it for over a decade but he regularly picks up new languages.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
6:44 PM
or when the solution existed, it was hidden very deeply in some forum thread with 100+ posts, and the 56th contained the crucial information needed to solve the problem.
Yes, SO is useful for programmers with any stand of knowledge, except for the ones on the top of the food chain
 
Catija
Catija
Like Jon Skeet? :D
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
Yes, I doubt he has ever needed to ask a C# question here
I'm sure there are parts of the language he doesn't understand, but if he doesn't, then the other 999 999 programmers on the site don't either
and if I were him, I would ask my questions about things other than C# under a pseudonym, to keep the legend alive :)
 
Catija
Catija
HA HA! Maybe he does!
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
Grrrr I have a problem here
I have a nice not-so-cheap Epson printer, actually a multifunction device with a scanner
the one problem is that it wants everything with the ink to be just as it wants it
I've had trouble with it before, for example when the cyan ink was empty, it wouldn't let me print black and white until I installed a new cyan cartridge
I print very little and the cartridges dry out frequently, especially the colored ones
 
Catija
Catija
Oh, I detest that sort of thing... which is why we only have a b&w laser printer :P
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
6:55 PM
so, I needed to print something today and had to clean the heads because magenta was very dry
first cleaning went well, but there was still a bit missing
 
Catija
Catija
I think some brands offer a "black and white" mode that doesn't require the color cartridges.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
did a second cleaning, and now it has an error message, "cannot recognize print cartridge" about the magenta cartridge
it is usually the error message which they use if you are using off brand cartridges
but I have always only used original ink with this printer
I haven't taken that cartridge out since the last time it printed, so it's not a problem with the contacts
I tried some ways to troubleshoot, but none worked
so it seems that I have at least a faulty original cartridge on my hands
and in the worst case, the whole printer cannot be used any more
 
Catija
Catija
Ugh... could you try to return the cartridge to the shop you bought it from?
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
I don't even remember where I bought it. This cartridge has been printing fine for months.
 
Catija
Catija
Oh. Then it's probably past the return time frame.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
6:59 PM
now the printer cannot do anything
it refuses any input until I have correctly installed a cartridge he likes
 
Catija
Catija
You said you haven't removed the cartridge... what if you take it out and put it back? Perhaps the cleaning messed up the placement?
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
Yes, that's what I meant by troubleshooting
 
Catija
Catija
Sometimes unplugging the darn thing for a few minutes and plugging it back in again works, too.
Ah, Hmmm.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
yes, did that too
including removing all the inks, letting it sit unplugged for a while, then replugging and putting each cartridge in separately
It seems the only thing I can do is to pay 15 Euros for a new cartridge, and then hope the problem is in the cartridge and not in the printing head
and of course I won't be able to send back the cartridge after removing the protective tape
 
Catija
Catija
And you'd probably not buy another of the same machine if you had to replace it... either because of your experience with it or because it's old enough that they don't make them any longer.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
7:05 PM
if I have to replace it, I certainly won't get the same brand
it's Epson, if you want to know which brand to avoid due to ridiculous cartridge policy
 
Catija
Catija
I do strongly recommend laser printers if you can afford them... toner doesn't ever dry out so they're great for people who only use them occasionally. They're starting to make lasers that are multi-use like the inkjet style.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
I wanted to have color because every now and then, color is really needed
 
Catija
Catija
You can get color laser printers. They're just more expensive.
We rarely need color, so we don't have one... but they do exist.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
I didn't want to spend the money for a color laser, and if I get a new one now, it will probably be b&w
it's slightly more uncomfortable, but probably not worth the price difference
the other thing is, I had read that the cheap laser printers are not printing any cheaper per page than the midrange inkjets
but nowadays, I guess this is not so important. My print needs are getting lower, not higher.
 
Catija
Catija
Sure... but it's definitely cheaper with toner if you only get half of the cartridge use from an inkjet because your print frequency is so low.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
7:09 PM
I could imagine that I've spent more money on flushing out dried heads than on printing useful stuff.
 
Catija
Catija
Best of luck with your printer... I know they are frustrating to deal with. I need to get some food.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
have a nice meal!
 
Cindy
Cindy
@rumtscho Which model Epson do you have?
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
@Cindy a SX620FW, this is a multifunctional
which is, right now, a nonfunctional
I mean, I can't even use the scanner, just because there is a problem with one ink cartridge
 
Cindy
Cindy
@rumtscho I was wondering because I have some extra cartridges. Not familiar with that model, though. What is the cartridge #?
 
ElmerCat
ElmerCat
7:19 PM
Hello @rumtscho @Cindy and @Catija !
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
@Cindy T 1303. Apple or deer.
hi @ElmerCat
 
Cindy
Cindy
@ElmerCat Hello!
 
ElmerCat
ElmerCat
Printers, huh?
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
@ElmerCat yes, mine is trying to quit on me despite probably having something minor
 
Cindy
Cindy
@rumtscho Okay. Mine are the 676 XL. My thought was that if it would work I could send them to you.
I haven't ever had a problem, but because of work, mine gets used almost every day.
 
ElmerCat
ElmerCat
7:23 PM
So many of them are ripoffs, in that the price of the printer is very inexpensive, but you wind up paying for it many times over buying toner (or ink) cartridges.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
@Cindy thank you, that's very sweet! But probably not practical, as an intercontinental package is not that cheap either
@ElmerCat I thought I had prevented that. I bought a midrange printer which has decent sized cartridges and a four color system
 
ElmerCat
ElmerCat
@rumtscho It won't even let you scan?
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
but it seems that Epson managed to screw me nevertheless
@ElmerCat exactly. That whole thing just refuses to do anything unless it has the cartridges installed and likes them.
 
Cindy
Cindy
@rumtscho I looked it and it's about ~$34 for Priority Express. Not too bad, really. And I don't pay for cartridges.
 
ElmerCat
ElmerCat
That's really evil!
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
7:28 PM
When a color ran out, I had thought that I can just print black and white without installing the new cartridge, so it won't dry out
but no, having anything less than a full set of cartridges makes that thing refuse any service
ditto having an empty cartridge, not yet changed
it also has to stay turned on the whole time
if I were to start turning the power off every night, it would do an expensive cleaning on each turning on
 
Cindy
Cindy
@rumtscho Many printers won't let you print anything if one cartridge is empty. We used to have that argument all the time with a company I used to work for. We couldn't get them to understand it.
 
ElmerCat
ElmerCat
@rumtscho Are you using the Epson scan application, or your native OS X or Windows Image Capture/Scanner software?
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
and now I am prevented from printing by a function which was created only in the name of inconveniencing customers
@ElmerCat no application. The printer does not accept any input from its own buttons when the "cartridge not recognized" message is turned on
@Cindy Twenty years ago, they didn't use to
but they grew more evil and greedy with time
 
ElmerCat
ElmerCat
@rumtscho No, it was created in the name of profit, so customers will have to keep buying supplies from them, or else their device becomes useless — it's like they're holding it hostage until you pay a ransom for new ink cartridges.
 
Cindy
Cindy
Wow. We just got an AMBER alert. A 3 yo little girl.
@rumtscho Yeah, I know.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
7:34 PM
@ElmerCat yes, profit is behind it. But the thought of "a customer might want to trick our printer into accepting a 'fake' cartridge" probably lead to the creation of functionality which defaults to "cartridge not recognized any time something unusual happens
I mean, how can it stop recognizing the cartridge while working with it?
Sure, communication problems happen now and then between two devices
but in any other case, there is a simple way to reset the whole thing to a clean slate
only printer cartridges try to protect themselves from such resets
@Cindy oh dear. I hope she's all right.
 
ElmerCat
ElmerCat
@rumtscho Now, you've done the obvious things like reseating the cartridges, and maybe cleaning their electrical contacts?
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
@ElmerCat yes. Also keeping the printer unplugged for a while, then inserting the cartridges again.
 
Cindy
Cindy
@rumtscho They are saying she may be in extreme danger. Sounds like it may be the father who abducted her.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
Cleaned the contacts of the problematic cartridge too, although there was nothing wrong wiht them.
@Cindy almost all abductions are by a family member. "stranger danger" is the more imagined case, but it is a very rare thing.
 
Cindy
Cindy
@rumtscho Very true.
 
rumtscho
rumtscho
7:38 PM
One hopes that the own parent will not really hurt the child, but there are all kinds of disturbed people out there :(
 
Cindy
Cindy
@rumtscho True. I don't ever get it though. I mean, I can understand someone taking their own child to care for, but not to hurt.
I think the weather is going to mess up my work plans this week and make me have to travel next Saturday. I don't like spending weekend days on work.
 
ElmerCat
ElmerCat
@Cindy I hope this incident is resolved to a happy conclusion.
 
Cindy
Cindy
@ElmerCat Me too.
@ElmerCat The Kitten Bowl is almost over. 4th qtr. and the Bobcats are trailing by 5.
 
ElmerCat
ElmerCat
@Cindy Oh my goodness, that sounds so exciting! Are they playing against the Visitors?
 
Cindy
Cindy
They've had some pretty cool Subaru commercials. :)
@ElmerCat They had two playoff games first and the winners of those were the Bobcats and the Felines. They play the actual Kitten Bowl game last. They had a half-time this year. Felines are back in the lead. It's hilarious.
 
ElmerCat
ElmerCat
7:54 PM
@Cindy I don't have a television, so I haven't watched a Subaru commercial in years — but I hear them often on NPR.
 
Cindy
Cindy
@ElmerCat I like NPR.
 
ElmerCat
ElmerCat
Here it is live streaming:
No, apparently it isn't.
There's a live stream of a room with cats, but's it not your event, unfortunately.
 
Cindy
Cindy
The Felines won by 1 point with a last second touchdown.
 
ElmerCat
ElmerCat
Oh, those cats!
 
Cindy
Cindy
:)
Puppy Bowl comes on now.
 
ElmerCat
ElmerCat
8:11 PM
Oh, there's some sort of a ballgame tonight? Is that why the cats and dogs are doing this today?
Whenever those things are on, it's a great time to go shopping — the stores are usually pretty empty.
 
 
2 hours later…
Jefromi
Jefromi
10:07 PM
@Catija I think the "must have an answer" thing is starting to get into the case by case exceptions kind of thing... if the old question asks it just as well as or better than the new question, we're not really doing anything useful by leaving the new open.
If the old one was badly asked and the new one's clearer, it's quite possibly sane to close the old as a dup of the new.
 
Catija
Catija
Sure. I was mostly talking about the text itself. It seems a bit disheartening to say "go here for your answer" and have the other question not have an answer.
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
Yeah, I know.
I think it is probably not worth trying to make a rule about it.
I'm really not trying to make rules, just clarify some kind of unwritten rules that didn't seem to be very clear based on existing stuff on meta.
 
Catija
Catija
I saw questions that were similar on Meta.SE that imply that you can't close as dupe if the target question doesn't have answers... but that it's not the case on Metas... I've not had enough dupe closing experience to know if that's true.
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
hmmmmm
well if there is already a rule in the site itself that's fine too I guess.
It doesn't gray out the VTC button if I pick a dup target that has no answers, though.
 
Catija
Catija
I think it was actually implying that it wouldn't be possible to even suggest the dupe... but that's where I get confused.
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
10:12 PM
So if it does anything about it, it's after you actually vote (which I don't exactly want to try).
 
Catija
Catija
Yeah.
Well, this old Meta.SE question implies that it's perfectly possible... meta.stackexchange.com/questions/133955/…
It's frustrating because I swear I saw this question earlier but my browser history won't go back far enough to find it.
Oh, here it is, I think:
10
Q: Why can we flag/vote a question on Meta as duplicate of another question which has no accepted/upvoted answers?

rptwsthiWhen we flag/vote-to-close a question as a duplicate on Stack Overflow, and that potential duplicate doesn't have any upvoted or accepted answers, we are alerted that we can't use that question as a duplicate and can't continue. This same check does however not seem to apply to Meta questions. Wh...

discussion support flags exact-duplicates meta
So, the implication there seems to be that you can't cast a duplicate close vote on SO unless the duplicate has an answer... but that's from 2013, so maybe it's old...
Where is Shog when you need him ;)
 
Jefromi
Jefromi
hmmm it might be flagging specifically
If I try to flag it still just shows vote to close though so I can't really try that either!
 

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