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12:00 AM
NK is a whole different matter. More like the IRA and Britain. At least it's tangible.
Muslim terrorism is just 'cause we ain't them. (I don't like calling it that, but I don't know what else to call it)
 
Ummm.
Muslim terrorism is partly because we rape their lands and stuff.
Oust their democratically elected presidents, invade and create chaos, cooperate with corrupt oppressors in exchange for oil, etc.
We have bee doing that for ages.
Many Western countries.
On top of that, we try to force our culture upon them (which is perhaps not always objectively bad, but they see it as bad).
 
There is that kind of logic, but it seems much more about being infidels.
Look at the dude in Australia.
no sense to that at all
 
12:16 AM
Well, there is no sense in terrorism: you attack people you associate with the evil policies of their government.
Even if those people are against those policies, or don't even know about them.
The Australian terrorist had been fighting a losing fight against the Australian participation in invasion(s) in the Near East.
He had been convicted of writing threatening letters to the families of Australian soldiers who had been to the Near East.
Of course he was also crazy.
 
After the honor killing of his wife? You give him credit for sanity
Yep.
 
But I have never heard of Muslim terrorist attacks that weren't at least partly motivated by politics.
The propaganda they use to enrol new terrorists is always dying Palestinian children and such.
Of course they also blame us for things that even our governments had nothing to with,
 
I have come to believe that politics and actual grievances are barely even considered. It's just blind hate and blind obedience.
 
Why do you think that?
There is also poverty, local injustice, and general despair.
It's complicated, as always...
 
That doesn't compute into acts of terror against anyone that isn't you. Then throw in schoolgirls being burned alive because they weren't wearing proper hijabs...It's blind
nonsensical
 
12:37 AM
@Jolenealaska Mmm that is different.
Of course there are also acts of terrorism that can be most easily explained by purely religious motives.
Although you often have to look deeper to be sure: who were those girls? Were their parents perhaps of a different tribe, a different caste?
 
Which is also blind, nonsensical obedience.
 
If there was a conflict with that tribe, it can be partially politically motivated.
The 100 or so children murdered in Norway were killed because they supported the ruling socialist party.
The 150 children killed in Peshawar this week were killed because their parents were involved in the army, who was launching a campaign against the terrorists.
Of course there are many terrorists who have only a dim and partial understanding of the motivations of their leaders.
And of course they are often half crazy and drugged...
 
Are you speaking of the incident 3 years ago?
 
I think Norway was 3 years ago or so.
 
OK, I wanted to make sure it wasn't a recent thing I didn't know about.
 
12:43 AM
When the Dutch murdered entire villages in Indonesia in the forties, it was because they assumed a large number of people in that village were responsible for some attack.
But of course also because they were the wrong, half-crazy people at the wrong place, too far away from central command.
 
I just flashed back to Cindy, longing for the "old times" when the world was safe.
"Is anyplace safe?"
Tall and me, simultaneous, "Nope"
 
 
4 hours later…
4:59 AM
@Phrancis Tread carefully on food safety questions. In my own kitchen I break the "rules" all the time, left and right. It hasn't made me sick yet. But to say out loud that it's OK to go outside of FDA, USDA and other guidelines, is risky shit. Luckily, you don't have to address it very often. The vast majority of food safety questions are duplicates.
 
Very duly noted. Need to familiarize myself more with such guidelines, food safety I always felt was important, yet there is so much more to learn
 
The top few answers here sum up 80% of it.
 
Definitely starred it for future reference
 
Hold on a sec, I'll bring you a few more.
56
Q: How long can I store a food in the pantry, refrigerator, or freezer?

derobertHow do I know if a given food or ingredient I have is still good, or if I should discard it? How can I best preserve a food or ingredient? This broad question is intended as a "general reference" question to quickly answer many how long will food keep for? questions. Please feel free to edit...

15
Q: How long can cooked food be safely stored at room/warm temperature?

MHansenIf I leave fully-cooked food (particularly meat) out at warm temperature - say on the counter or in a crock pot that's been turned off - how long will it stay safe to eat? Does it make any difference if I re-cook the food afterward?

65
Q: Is it safe to put hot food in the fridge?

maqI heard that putting really warm food in the fridge right after cooking it is not the right thing to do. It might cause bacterial growth? Is this true?

34
Q: Is there a problem with defrosting meat on the counter?

ahsteeleI generally defrost meat on the kitchen counter. A friend of mine suggested that this was dangerous and suggested that I defrost meat in the refrigerator. I am no biologist but it seems to me that as long as the meat doesn't get warm defrosting it on the counter should be safe. Generally, I remo...

26
Q: Is it safe to eat raw eggs?

AttilaNYCI have a friend that is training for a marathon and he drinks 6 raw eggs before running (Yes, like Rocky) - is this safe?

25
Q: Is "until juices run clear" a valid test for poultry doneness? Why or why not?

AaronutI've come across this particular recommendation many times in various recipes and cookbooks and probably even given it out myself once or twice. Poultry is sufficiently cooked when the juices run clear, not red or pink. In recent months and years, as I've grown more interested in and knowledgea...

That's enough for now.
I need to eat :)
I want to say one more thing before I go.
All this doesn't mean you have to always parrot the government line. Two cases in point, when I called BS:
1
A: Does frozen broccoli need to be cooked to be eaten safely?

Stephen EureCooked food becomes potentially hazardous when it cools and also when it is re-heated from cold. Why one brand would have a food safety warning and another would not, I cannot say. Sometimes manufacturers treat food in other ways (like irradiation) to control possible contamination issues. The...

Again, look at the comments.
 
5:23 AM
Anyone ever think about making a more... "canonical" food-safety post? For easy reference?
 
Yes, that's what the first few are!
If it gets to book length, you might as read a book.
 
Well, I meant... put them all into one place, like separate answers to a community question like "About food safety" with links to different answers for different foods/situations
 
Use "favorites".
 
But... do it for the children newbies who don't have all those favorites =;-)
 
Hit the star if you think you might need to reference a question or answer again.
 
5:27 AM
(just being silly, don't mind me at this point, getting late)
 
I know the feeling.
Hey @Jefromi. Did you enjoy your meetings?
That was quick! Well, me too. Time to eat.
 
 
3 hours later…
8:32 AM
@ElendilTheTall I've got about 2 minutes before I have to go to bed. I hope I catch you to say goodnight, but if not I'll probably be up before you leave "work".
 
8:59 AM
ooo, the bite of the quotation marks
 
 
4 hours later…
1:24 PM
@Jolenealaska Yeah, but then you will have to toss your meat :)
I have not done it when not at home, perhaps I should try it :P
Also, I also have decided more or less what I'll be cooking for Christmas eve, yaay.
Hello everybody by the way :)
 
1:56 PM
@mien !
 
hello @ElendilTheTall
how are you?
 
bored out of my tiny mind, thank goodness you're here!
how are you?
@mien don't abandon me!
 
2:49 PM
I'm fine but very busy!
Tomorrow is my last day at work before the holidays and some things need to be finished
but tomorrow is also a busy day with other stuff, a goodbye drink, a christmas lunch etc
What do you prefer:
or
?
Thinking you can understand most things? :)
 
3:25 PM
whooaa, dragon!
 
3:44 PM
:D
hi @Jefromi! how you doin'?
 
 
1 hour later…
5:01 PM
@Mien assuming dragon is tarragon, go with the other one. Tarragon is fucking foul and ruins any dish it comes into contact with. In my opinion.
 
@Mien I'm also with Elendil. The filled turkey is much better seasoned.
and hello @ElendilTheTall
 
5:35 PM
lol I like terragon :P
but I was thinking about the filled on :)
so you do not like bearnaise? :P
 
Hi guys
 
hi @Jolenealaska
 
I've got a question for you, @rumtscho
 
@Mien I think I don't like bearnaise. I don't remember which one of the derivatives of mayonnaise it is, but I don't like real mayonnaise either, because I'm opposed to mustard.
 
The avocado experimentation continues.
 
5:39 PM
@Jolenealaska So maybe I have an answer for you.
@Jolenealaska nice
 
Guess what? Vitamin C works.
 
despite it being an acid? The plot thickens
but it's so week an acid, it might buffer the avocado rather than acidify it
 
It also helps keep mash that is flavored with lemon or lime from browning as fast.
All in all, there's your additive.
I need to redo it because I started too late in the day, I didn't get all of the pictures I need.
but that's ok
While I am at it, I'm going to test the red onion thing.
 
which red onion thing?
 
Its one of the answers and it has popped up elsewhere too. Hold on...
3
A: Browning Avocados - What Helps?

OGreconPropanethiol S-oxide gas will stop the browning affect on the surface of avocados. This sulfur oxide is found in the gas formed from cutting bitter/sharp onions. When storing guacamole in a bowl, place a half an onion chopped inside a smaller bowl, then place the smaller bowl in the center on to...

The other place I've seen it says lay an avocado half cut side up on a bed of chopped red onions, put a lid on the container (not against the avocado, which we know works), but just to enclose it all.
So, here's the question. Do I write more answers to the runaway question? I'm not too concerned about the red onion thing. I'd probably just comment one way or another to the answer on the original question unless I get dramatic results.
The vitamin c thing though, I want to call attention to.
By itself it retards browning. More importantly, since we know that mashed avocado that does not have acid added (like lemon or lime), browns slowly, vitamin c slows the browning if you like lime in your guacamole.
lime alone browns fast (we know that), vit c + lime is neck and neck with no additives, vit c only stays fresh green the longest of the 4 samples.
so do I add an answer to the browning question? (it's getting crowded in there)
 
6:00 PM
@Mien Sorry, I said that then immediately left for work! I am great, and don't let those people talk you out of dragon things.
 
or, do I write, "Does ascorbic acid retard browning of avocados? "
 
@Jolenealaska However you do it, maybe a good goal is to end up with an answer that says in a pretty concise way, here are the things that work, and here are the commonly suggested things that don't work.
 
Good point @Jefromi
 
If I link to the old question, I can show the vitamin c results with 3 pictures and 3 paragraphs of text.
 
It's sad that we can't move the old answer to its own separate question, which acid works, and just reference it in the new, complete answer
@Jolenealaska I think the goal would be to be even shorter
 
6:04 PM
My thought is that while you should definitely publish how you figured it all out and so on, some people are really just going to want to know, does this particular thing I heard work? And where's the list of things that do work, so that I can see which of those I already have in my kitchen - and at that point a few photos and a few paragraphs are way more than they're going to want to read.
 
one paragraph on acid, one on vit c, one on red onion, one on airtightness
the problem is that many people don't want to read the long ones
I know exactly how you feel when told to stick all this wonderful information into such a short format
 
I'm not saying to leave out the details, I'm mostly saying to make sure that somewhere there's an easy-to-find tl;dr.
 
When I'm writing a paper, I have to pare it down mercilessly to fit in the max page allowance. And I hate that part the most.
 
with a final paragraph that says that Vit C works on its own, and in combination with lemon or lime it counteracts the other acid's browning affect.
 
But when I'm reading a paper, I'm very happy the authors didn't get even more page allowance :)
@Jolenealaska you might want a table, with a column of "works" and "doesn't work". And a third one of "worsens browning". Just list all the relevant combinations.
 
6:08 PM
I'm talking short paragraphs :)
 
Still, a table is a very good summary in addition to the paragraphs.
 
well..all other acids bad....vit c good...other acids + Vit C - neutral
A table seems a bit of overkill.
 
(or a couple mini-paragraphs, "what works: ...", "what doesn't work: ...", "what makes it worse: ...")
 
If you absolutely need to include pictures, a grid might be a better idea than interspersing them. Have you read any biology papers?
@Jolenealaska Depends on what else you have. For example airtight cover, leaving the seed in, onion gas.
 
And the most convincing pictures to lead with (outside of detailed results) might be just three things: best case, neutral (nothing added or something that doesn't work), and worst case (something bad added).
And if you use small versions you can get three in a horizontal row.
 
6:11 PM
A few....I am thinking just 3 or 4 pictures, identical but for time.
this at 0 4 8 and 12 hours (something like that)
4 scoops
untreated
lime
vit c
vit c + lime
 
did you ever get that stabilisator?
the bisulfate something?
 
No...I have a half kilo of sodium bisulfate
dang it.
I finally decided it doesn't matter
the stuff (bisulfide)
is tough to order because it can't be shipped by air
it's too "dangerous"
it has an LD50 lower than most drugs
and "may be fatal if swallowed" on the label.
 
This is still a good info to put in a discussion
 
No one here is going to put it in their guacamole anyway.
brb
 
"industrial producers use bisulfide, but it is toxic in large quantities, so I don't recommend it for home use" or something similar
 
6:30 PM
Yeah, I was going to include it this round of experiments, but it got to the point that I didn't want to delay the Vit C any further, since I suspected that the solution was going to lie there. I do intend to mention the NaHSO4 in the question (since it'll be so short anyway) but not in the somewhat lengthier (but still succinct) answer.
I was going to, but didn't because..
Oh, another nice thing. Even at concentrations as high as 500mg of Vit C to 50g of avocado, it's flavorless.
 
I'm going to training, see you latetr
 
cya @rumtscho
 
If you want to describe more of your post, do it, I promise to read it when I'm back
so, bye for now
 
What I think I'll do is write it up over the next few days, and post it here first when it is done.
I appreciate the feedback. I don't want the sequel to be lame, know what I mean?
 
6:48 PM
Hmm I have a rep change due to "user was removed". Well! Now I have to put on my Sherlock Holmes hat.
 
I didn't delete anyone recently I don't think!
 
It's weird that anyone would delete their account if they knew it would wipe out their votes.
but...people are weird.
do you know what the rep cut-off is for that? At a certain rep the votes remain, even if the user is removed.
 
7:11 PM
Really? I thought they were always removed.
 
Huh, okay - I suspect that only applies to self-deletion, though.
 
Although I'm not sure ever I've seen a high-rep user get deleted for bad behavior, that's pretty extreme.
Also this says your votes go away: stackoverflow.com/help/deleting-account
 
That would be very weird.
If a high rep user was so inappropriate as to be removed, I would suspect some kind of psychotic break.
'cause THAT ain't normal.
 
7:20 PM
@Jolenealaska I dunno if it's happened (maybe on SO) but it would most likely be for something like, after two years, they finally detect with confidence that someone has been vote-spamming, maybe abuse of a sock puppet account, etc.
I think the systems are pretty smart and catch that kind of stuff early though.
 
Ah yes, I could see that.
 
And I'm afraid I don't quite have time to read all the context on the avocado thing just now, sorry!
 
No prob
the answer is going to take a couple of days anyway.
I want good pictures.
 
7:49 PM
Hi @Cindy, I can't help but think of you as the avocado catalyst.
That hat looks great on you.
 
Hi @Jolenealaska. I'm still thinking on that one. Any progress?
Thanks. It fits well. :)
 
Yep.
The key is Vit C.
 
Great!
Did you get the user deleted thing?
 
Vit C retards browning on its own, and counteracts the negative effect of lemon or lime juice.
Nope, don't know who it was. Did it affect your rep too?
 
Are you using regular vit C rather than ascorbic acid?
 
7:52 PM
same diff
 
I didn't lose too much but I hadn't seen it before.
Did it hit you hard? I know you've got tons of votes.
 
I bought pure powder, but I can't find it. By grinding plain tablets, I'm doing the same thing. I even weighed a tablet. A 500mg Vit C tablet weighs .52 grams. Close enough.
Nope, not at all. Just a curiosity, not a thing.
 
Great job! You may change the face of things with your hard work on this.
Re the lost votes, it possibly could hurt those with higher reps more. That's why I asked.
 
In a way, I think I already have. The "add lime or lemon juice to guacamole to keep it from browning" thing was so ingrained that no one questioned it. The question has 6000 views. A lot of people know now what they didn't know before. That's cool :)
And you started it
 
Super cool! Imagine how many people will change how they do things because you had the insight to delve into it!
 
8:02 PM
You should have seen me as the browning started. I was stunned. :)
 
I can imagine. Any idea to how to draw attention to it when you post? I guess what I mean is how to get people who have already viewed it to look again. Can you somehow post it as new or merge them?
 
I think I am going to do the question as I posted above...the screenshot of a word document.
 
I think after you post it we need to find money and put billboards up worldwide! ;)
 
I think the title will be:
Does ascorbic acid retard browning of avocados? (avocado experiment #2)
 
I just looked at your doc. Looks good.
Good title and it's not a dup.
 
8:07 PM
But I want to not screw this up, so I am going to post the Q&A here before it goes on main, I'll listen to feedback.
 
Good idea. I really learn a lot from you guys!
 
"deeper" has become "darker".
I have learned so much in the 15 months I have been here that it's phenomenal.
Both from other users answers, and from researching my own.
I am twice the cook now than I was.
 
@Jolenealaska I'm really really in favor of there being a question that's just "what prevents avocados from browning?" - the more specific questions can still exist and be linked to (as well as linking back to the general one), but the typical future reader coming from google is going to want to just know what works.
 
Unfortunately, that would be a dupe.
 
Yes. And not just about the site. It's phenomenal that we can communicate so easily with people all over the world.
 
8:13 PM
I would add a link to the second question to the first.
 
I often think about my mother's lifespan. To live back in time when they didn't have electricity, running water, etc., and used a horse and buggy and then journey through life and see everything evolve so rapidly. Must have been amazing.
 
And question #1 is already way crowded.
 
There I go again.......
 
I think back just to growing up without internet.
My first computer was a TRS-80
 
@Jolenealaska If it's taking you two separate questions to fully answer it, sounds like it wouldn't be a dupe of either.
 
8:17 PM
How can I word the question to avoid it being a dupe?
 
@Jolenealaska Which is one of the reasons I'm advocating for a simple question with a direct answer.
 
Our first, or rather my son's first, was an Atari 400. You had to learn to program it to use it.
 
I think your first question is roughly "does acid work?" and your second is "does vitamin C work"? So the general question is simply "what works?"
The title on the first question currently asks "what works?" but your current answer doesn't actually attempt to cover everything.
 
It was "what acid works" until it got merged.
now it's just "what works"
 
Okay, well if that is the "what works" question, then a good answer needs to actually fully address what works.
Possibly that means splitting off another question about acid in detail.
Or possibly that means you shouldn't be trying to write a separate question at all, but rather make that one answer good (possibly including making it smaller, e.g. putting photos into grids linking to full size).
 
8:21 PM
which is pretty much what I am doing with the vit c question. I'll link to that in the original, but I think you can understand why I don't want to mess too much with an answer with 104 upvotes.
 
And that's the issue I'm talking about: if your answer with 104 upvotes doesn't actually contain the short but complete answer right at the top, I don't think it's really as good of an answer as it could be.
So either you think you can cram everything in there - start with a summary, describe all the experiments (concisely, hopefully) - or you can't, in which case you should still make the answer complete, which might mean moving out some of the details of the acid experiments (as you are trying to do with the vitamin C).
 
Alright, I'll work on it.
 
In case this helps: I'm trying to regard the primary goal here as asking a question that matches what others ask, and having the top answer to it be as good as possible, and then from there figure out how to work in all the details.
And of course, I'm quite happy for that single best answer to be the one that already has a hundred upvotes.
 
I won't post anything to main until I've considered your input and anyone else's who chimes in.
 
(And if there are ultimately three questions, what works, does acid work, and does vitamin C work, I don't think I'd call any of them dups.)
 
8:26 PM
I really don't know nearly as much as you guys about the best way to post it. I was thinking that a separate question would be best so that users/viewers who have seen the first one would be more likely to see this one. And that would help to make the Vit C answer the top answer, not in competition with the other one.
 
@Jolenealaska I'm not trying to be bossy, sorry!
 
Trust me. I want input.
That post is obviously important to me. If I'm going to mess with it, I want to mess carefully.
 
All right, fair enough.
I'm not advocating for removing any content, just kinda... splitting things up into an abstract and two subsections, kinda.
 
Well, as fate would have it I'm down to 4% battery. And I'm probably confusing things, too. ;) So I'm going to plug this in and let it charge. I'll be anxious to see how this works out. Again, great job!
 
And now that I look more at the other answers on the current big question, it definitely seems like your answer there should be comprehensive, since you're competing with a bunch of other folks saying "X works!" "no, Y works!" - so if you can address all of them in your answer you'll be set.
As an example of "...and subsections", there's this old one:
7
Q: Does an avocado seed help guacamole stay green?

voithosMy friend was telling me about a habit in the Spanish culture (I'm not sure if it's done elsewhere as well) of leaving the avocado seed inside when making guacamole. The claim is that if you leave the seed inside the guacamole, something in the seed prevents the guacamole from browning. I'm a li...

 
8:31 PM
That also clarifies the onion thing too. The odd man out that may yet work.
 
More broadly, it's pretty common for people to ask more specific questions even once there are already general ones, the idea being "yeah I saw that, but I'm curious about this aspect X of it, more detail?"
and that's how I see the "does the seed work?" "seriously all those acids don't work?" kinds of questions in relation to a general one.
Course I'm making this up as I go along too, so definitely see what other people think!
@Jolenealaska Onion?
 
3
A: Browning Avocados - What Helps?

OGreconPropanethiol S-oxide gas will stop the browning affect on the surface of avocados. This sulfur oxide is found in the gas formed from cutting bitter/sharp onions. When storing guacamole in a bowl, place a half an onion chopped inside a smaller bowl, then place the smaller bowl in the center on to...

I've seen in published elsewhere too.
 
whaaaaat
 
I'm set up to test it along with the repeat of the Vit C test.
 
I think you should try to get ATK to buy the results of your tests from you.
 
8:36 PM
I've already hit up Serious Eats :)
 
There's also the cover it with water thing, is that in there somewhere already?
 
They have not responded to my email :)
To me that is no different than tight saran wrap.
No air, no oxidation.
 
Well, especially if it's guacamole not just half an avocado, the issue of whether the water seeps in might be a thing?
 
It is not something I would consider.
 
Yeah I mostly just mean, if in the end-all be-all answer you wanted to mention the primary methods of achieving no air, might be worth knowing whether it's actually a good idea to mention water there.
 
8:41 PM
One thing I am doing is using two 2"X 2" ziplocs. One will be full of plain avocado mash, one with avocado mash with Vit C. I want to see if there is a difference in the refrigerator, long term.
 
(And based on that and a couple other things, looks like the water doesn't get in, phew.)
 
I might lump it in with the seed and sour cream as ways to keep air from the avocado, without actually doing it.
 
I'm guessing you're not adding salt?
 
Ha! Salt! That bastard! Nope, I've never used salt.
Strange though, I salt everything else.
 
I usually make guacamole by taste, so it'd be kind of a pain to not salt it and still judge the other flavors, but if you know a rough recipe and want to make a bunch ahead, looks like it might be worth leaving out the salt until you serve it!
The kitchn post suggesting water also says that a lot of plastic wrap is porous now?
Is that true? Seems like it kinda defeats the purpose.
 
8:46 PM
My 48 hour avocado was saran wrapped (the brand name stuff), so I'm not seeing it.
 
It says:
> There's a reason, by the way, that plastic wrap doesn't work well. In the past, plastic wrap was made out of materials that didn't allow air through. But the most common material now for plastic wrap is more porous and lets air pass through — oxidizing the guacamole and turning it brown.
I wonder if (like me) they're just bad at getting all the air out.
 
By mushing the wrap into the guac, I did not have that problem with brand name Saran Wrap. Hmmm...maybe that's an experiment for another day. For this, I'll just say "Saran Wrap" I think.
 
I have trouble getting it perfect when it's in a bowl (especially around the edges) but I am also just bad at plastic wrap, so
 
Press it into the edges, so that you end up with a mound shape with a moat of finger presses.
I want to test the smoke point of various brands of Sesame Oil.
29
A: How do restaurants make chicken fried rice? What ingredient am I missing?

JolenealaskaFor me it isn't fried rice without toasted sesame oil, and the fried rice I have had in restaurants always tastes to me as if it contains toasted sesame oil. Peas are pretty required too. BTW, La Choy is synthetic soy sauce, it was at the very bottom of the America's Test Kitchen taste testing of...

I've made rice like this forever, but people often say that toasted sesame oil burns easily.
Apparently EVOO can vary a lot too. Some have a much higher smoke point than others.
Unfortunately, both of those experiment will be expensive.
I need to run. I have to go get stuck with needles.
Cya later.
 
9:03 PM
Add toasted sesame oil at the end?
 
I don't, I fry in it. Like I said, apparently you can't do that with all sesame oil. I made a point to say that in the answer, cause I've been told by reliable sources that some do burn easily.
Specifically, the store brand of the biggest grocery chain in the UK. Well shit, how do I get a hold of that? :)
"Tall, send me some oil!"
Now for real I gotta go or I'll be late.
Bye!
 

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