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3:29 PM
@mien we cannot see who has voted up or down.
The system can see if one person is a "serial downvoter" who downvotes all answers by somebody else, and maybe also all answers in a single question. Then the downvotes will be invalidated.
But this happens automatically. The team can probably see when it happens and/or take some action, but we don't.
Even before Jefromi had answered, I thought that this is just a contentious question, where there are two camps and everybody thinks that the people from the other camp are dead wrong, so they downvote.
 
4:11 PM
@rumtscho How you are doing? Hope your program is workign.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:44 PM
@rumtscho The fun thing about this one is that a lot of the people in one camp haven't actually tried the other method. I went to a Harold McGee talk, and in the Q&A, an Italian woman said she'd tried less water and was surprised it worked, but that using cold water was just not a good idea, and she wasn't going to try that.
Also in case there's a person who loves the site enough to be in chat, but not enough to look at meta:
1
Q: Should I edit posts for writing style?

JefromiEditing posts to fix mistakes and even add extra information is a great feature of our site. But sometimes we're also tempted to edit posts into the form and style we would have written them in, making changes that are more about personal preference than correctness. Some examples: Typographica...

 
 
3 hours later…
8:55 PM
@Jefromi I do the sub-boiling low water method all the time for my pasta :-)
 
@SAJ14SAJ Yup, you're at least partially in that camp, depending on whether you're also willing to try cold water!
I wonder if the always boiling water thing is inherited from fresh pasta.
 
How did this come up?
Because Kenji just barely posted on this subject.
 
@Jefromi Willing to try the cold water--what I am concerned there with is predictability to know how long before it is done so I don't have to monitor it continuously. I like when it is hot just because the rate is fairly well known.
@Sobachatina haven't read the linked post yet, but Kenki wrote a pretty big article on the myths of boiling pasta some time ago.
 
@Sobachatina He read this question!
4
Q: How can I keep pasta shapes intact?

Jeff AxelrodI frequently make wagon wheel (rotelle) pasta (Racconto brand and probably others) for my kids, but the shapes rarely stay intact. Pieces of the outer edges often break off of most pieces, and some wheels are completely severed in two. I noticed that pieces are already breaking apart during ...

 
Oh yeah. That question.
The answer then is to rehydrate the pasta in cold water and then let it cook briefly in its sauce.
 
9:00 PM
@SAJ14SAJ Ah, that's fair. I'm pretty much always fine just checking on it; there's no way I'm going to manage to remember cooking times for all the pasta varieties anyway.
 
I personally have never tried that.
 
@Jefromi I have even experiemented with cooking pasta directly in the sauce. It works. Its ideal for frozen ravioli.
I use only a couple shapes, and stick to a brand I am familiar with so I know its performance pretty well.
 
I linked to it in my answer, but the comment on this answer is I think pretty strong support for cold water reducing sticking: cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/32040/…
@SAJ14SAJ I use ALL the shapes!
 
The only place I disagree with you is I have never not once in the last several years, had sticking even with low water on the hot method. Why are wheels different? What is the OP experiencing that we are not :-)
 
I like to go to the store and buy one of everything.
 
9:02 PM
@Jefromi That would make it harder to really know the times :-) But what I really know is how much to modify the box directions since Barilla undercooks pasta to my personal taste, so I add one minute :-)
 
I think it's probably a combination of the brand, and the fact that while stirring might simply unstick a more solid shape, these are fragile and will just tear apart.
 
The thing is, at the stage where the starch is dissolving, they are still pretty strong, so I was always confused. The OP rejected every hypothesis I had, or any other poster had.
 
If you want to see pasta stick, you should try this:
 
Those I have not tried!
 
If you try the traditional methods, I swear, you will end up with a stack of ten of them glued together and uncooked in the middle.
And stirring is at least as likely to push them into each other as break them up.
 
9:04 PM
Little suction cups, are they? I think I suggested that the OP on the oriechete question cook them in individual muffin cup holes :-)
 
Yep that would also work.
But I only have twelve muffin cups so cold water is slightly easier.
 
Yeah, it would kind of limit the amount of pasta you can cook at once.
The thing is, the limit of the cold method, which should work in theory is to soak them to hydrate in cold water, then cook them in hot to cook through :-) Kind of like soaking beans before cooking.
 
Yeah, I haven't tried soaking - but probably as long as you want your pasta soon, and just starting cold and stirring works, there's no need to soak.
 
Ooh, Kenji's new article actually suggests that, with the cooking phase in the sauce. That makes good sense.
I am impatient, yes, that is why I do the low water method. :-)
Kenki suggests it for the impatient. He says.
The beauty in this method is that by pre-soaking pasta and having it sitting in your fridge, you don't have to bring a pot of water to a boil every time you want to eat it. Pasta prep becomes almost immediate.
 
I find it funny that he just posted on the subject right when it was pertinent.
 
9:10 PM
Coincidence or Kenji is an SA lurker?
Actually, he said he got the question from one of his readers....
 
It wasn't me!
 
@Jefromi Or so you say... Where were you on the night that Kenji received the question in question?
 
I don't know, because I don't know when he received it, because it wasn't me!
 
It was a dark and stormy night. I was in my office when a tall west coast moderator walked in...
 
@SAJ14SAJ Bah. That's not going to win the bad fiction contest.
 
9:14 PM
@derobert Show us the way, oh master of the bad fiction!
 
I think whoever walks in is supposed to have like... good legs or something.
 
I didn't claim to be a master of bad fiction. Have you ever seen a mushroom writing fiction?
 
@Jefromi I was going to type something like that, but I didn't want you to think I was being intentionally rude.
@derobert I have never seen a mushroom type!
 
But tall and long-legged are similar so maybe it's okay.
 
He was wearing a sear sucker suit, with a cravat adjusted just so. He looked like had had a long night, and wasn't ready to end it yet.
 
9:17 PM
Wait? I thought you were familiar with that Princess Peach person. In which case...
that's what Google suggests, at least.
 
I already type 120 WPM. That and four dollars will get me a cup of coffee.
@Cerberus Where are you... everyone else seems to be here! :-)
 
Well, its being reported that the ECB is ready to act. And if the ECB is ready to act, the time to act must have been at least 4 months ago. So I assume horrible tragedy has already befallen our European users.
 
@derobert You just might a pessimist, sir :-)
 
When it comes to the ECB, definitely!
In general? Not so much. The ECB is special.
 
I am glad I live in 'merica. I think. Until we do something monumentally stupid. Like tell us that health care which is 70% dependent on federal money will just have the sequester passed through, when increased regulation is actually RAISING our costs, not lowering them.
Note that I personally work for a non-profit health-care organization with a 1.8% margin in a really good year to do things like invest in new capital medical equipment, so I may be biased.
 
9:28 PM
Its also part of a system that somehow managed to be far more expensive than almost any other in the world...
 
All I know is that the money is not actually going to the organizations that provide the actual health care.
 
I think everyone denies that the money is going to them :-(
 
Non-profits are pretty transparent.
I will just ask this question: have the profit margins for any of the non-governmental payers gone down in recent history?
 
Hard to say, a lot of them are private...
No doubt they're getting something. But they'd have to be getting quite a lot to explain the cost difference
This article includes two lists of countries of the world sorted by their total expenditure on health at purchasing power parity (PPP) per capita, and their total expenditure on health as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP). The first table lists the 34 Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) member countries, plus Taiwan (Republic of China), by total expenditure on health at purchasing power parity per capita in 2010, and their total expenditure on health as a percentage of GDP in 2010. The second table lists the 193 World Health Organization (WHO) member ...
 
While I like the Wikipedia, this is not the sort of information I would trust it for.
 
9:43 PM
Well, it links to the OECD data for it, so...
 
I don't know what OECD is.
 
Their about page certainly camoflages their mission quite well!
 
@derobert You know more about this stuff than I do by probably a couple of orders of magnitude.
But on a really good day, I can write a SQL join.
 
9:48 PM
Its an IGO focused on economic issues... members are basically the highly-developed countries's governments
(it has a few members which aren't)
 
I can see you are missing Cerb.... He understands this stuff :-)
And likes to talk about it. I hate it. It just leaves me feeling both depressed and disenfranchised.
 
Possibly he's still suffering the aftereffects of getting drunk (or high) celebrating their new king-in-name-only?
 
He seemed recovered when we talked about it a day or three ago.
Pictures were shown. It was scary :-)
Neither Cerb nor Mien could tell me what a King of the Netherlands actually does :-)
 
I'm guessing they didn't want to admit I was right, and that all he does is occupy nice houses, consume tax dollars, and invite other do-nothing kings over for tea.
 
Your summary sounds about right :-)
I asked if he cut the ribbon when they opened new shopping malls, but Mien professed to have no idea what I was talking about.
 
9:53 PM
Yep. Maybe they don't have shopping malls in Belgium?
 
I don't know, where would they buy their bitter balls? (That is a real thing)
 
I donno. Maybe they find them on the ground?
 
Ick.... bitter balls are kind of--they deny this, btw--a deep fried meatball, coated in breadcrumbs.
So I hope they don't get them off the ground.
 
Its possible austerity has reduced them all to scavenging for bitter balls. Maybe that's the tragedy that has the ECB ready for action?
 
Bitterballen () (plural of bitterbal) are a savoury Dutch meat-based snack, typically containing a mixture of beef or veal (minced or chopped), beef broth, butter, flour for thickening, parsley, salt and pepper, resulting in a thick ragout. Most recipes include nutmeg and there are also variations utilising curry powder or that add in finely chopped vegetables such as carrot. The ingredients are combined and cooked, then refrigerated for the mixture to firm up. Once firm, the filling is rolled into balls roughly 3 to 4 cm in diameter, then battered in a breadcrumb and egg mixture and deep-...
 
9:55 PM
Hmmm, that's odd. Why would a deep-fried meatball be bitter?
 
A fine hypothesis. If @mien or @cerberus should join us, we can ask!
AS far as I can tell, they aren't really bitter, but are mustard flavored.
 
@SAJ14SAJ They can't. They're out scavenging for dinner.
 
Hmm.... Well, I think they are both in the well off classes, perhaps they are buying other people's scavengings.
 
That could be. But then, didn't we find out the other day that @Mien doesn't actually own any cookware?
 
But she is young. And renting a furnished apartment.
And I suspect causes the so-called BF to obtain things for her :-) :-)
 
9:59 PM
Probably, why else would she have gotten one of those?
 
I don't know, I have never wanted one!
 
(wonder how much trouble we can get in when they finally read the transcript....)
 
Rum might read it... but we did do the @-sign thing so maybe Mien will come alng.
We can distract her with tales of myconocide.
 
Hasn't she gone mushroom hunting before?
Seems like you'd have to be pretty desperate to go mushroom hunting instead of, say, cow hunting.
 
I don't know. She claims to eat them.
I would agree. Cows taste good.
 
10:01 PM
Yes. Cows very tasty. Mushrooms aren't food.
 
I agree. I don't know why restaurants are permitted to pollute food dishes with random fungus corpses.
 
Indeed. The health inspector needs to put a stop to this.
 
I was trained as a MD health inspector about 25 years ago.... it wasn't even mentioned!!!!
 
Well, I think I'll stay away from MD restaurants, then.
I was already suspicious of the state after finding that there do not appear to be any Mongolian BBQ restaurants in the state.
When I asked Google to find me one, it suggested I visit a normal state, like VA. Or a non-state, like DC.
 
I never noticed that. Icannot think of what health code they would be violating unless something has changed, and after all its only been 30 years, so I couldn't possibly forget anything, and nothing could possibly change!
VA is not a state.
Are mushrooms prohibited in VA?
 
10:09 PM
There used to be ones in MD, apparently. Was looking for one after T-Mode, and the two folks I was staying with (both Marylanders) had been to one previously... but the one near them had closed. Figured OK, whatever, restaurants close all the time. But then couldn't find any others, which is odd.
 
All the chuscaria (how do you spell that) near me have closed too... but I don't think it is a health code issue.
I think it is just one of those things. Iwas never a huge fan of Mongolion Barbeque. I would get the boring stuff.
 
Yeah, no idea if its a health code thing. Though they are somewhat weird, in having raw meat out where customers can grab it.
 
We can grab it in a grocery store too.
 
Yeah. And its not like I found news stories, etc. complaining about MD shutting them all down, so... I guess folks in MD just don't care for them.
 
As far as I can tell form my little pocket of Germantown, we like oriental restaurants from recent generation immegrents, and national chains. What part of VA are you in?
 
10:12 PM
Apparently there are still churrascarias in VA.
 
So my friends told me, having taunted me of a tale of one out by Reston.
They are very delicious.
 
@SAJ14SAJ I'm near Sterling, VA. Fairly near Dulles Airport.
yeah, Reston is close.
 
I used to live in Herndon as a young wee lad, before there was a toll road! We had to go through the airport to get home.
 
I suppose 28 was a two-lane road back then, too?
 
I believe that it was, yes, but as I was 10 years old or whatever, it wasn't something I paid a lot of attention to.
 
10:15 PM
Hah, yeah, and now its a 6-lane freeway
... with plans for 8.
 
I understand the Lua Garden in Herndon is still there after these several decades!
I have no idea how to spell "loo-ow"
 
yelp.com/biz/luau-garden-restaurant-and-lounge-herndon ... if that's it, yelp says closed. No idea, never been there myself.
 
Must have just happened recently!
 
last review is 2010, so, yeah, fairly recent
either that, or Yelp is just crazy
 
The address looks right--that place was an institution. When I had a job in... Sterling... I had eathen there is recently as the late 90s.
 
10:18 PM
Hah, I'm currently at work in Sterling :-P
 
Isn't it time you went home?
I have guessed from linux and sql conversations you are some sort of IT person (insert evil laugh here)?
 
yeah, programmer and sysadmin
it is about time to go home
 
All around unix guy? :-)
 
yep
 
Well... you can go home and I am going to go downstairs and figure out what should be for dinner.
 
10:21 PM
well, have a good evening, then.
 
See you later.
 
11:15 PM
Hi!
I was Away.
You know, the Euro crisis and all.
They've rationed internet access.
 
@Cerberus Don't you get a triple share?
 
Haha I wish!
 
What is the point of being a mythical diety if you cannot hog bandwidth?
 
Tell me about it!!
But no.
I was in a bar.
 
Is that the first line of a joke?
 
11:17 PM
Of course I did leave my bittorrent client on.
 
A three headed semi-mythical diety walks into a bar...
 
@SAJ14SAJ You mean "hi"?
Haha, oh, that.
 
I don't torrent.... just never got into it, and it seems to be just... you know... pirates now.
??
 
@SAJ14SAJ What?
 
I are confused.
 
11:18 PM
Downloading music and videos is legal in my country, so no problem.
 
Is it?
 
It is.
Although uploading is not.
 
So neither artists nor royalty have any true function nor compensation?
 
Yes.
It's all a fun game.
 
Interesting.
 
11:19 PM
We're not as boring and grubby as we look!
 
I had grilled cheese for dinner.
 
See?
 
I discovered that one sandwich is not enough, and two is far, far, far too much.
Now I am stuffed.
 
You stole the concept of cheese from the first cheese man.
 
Erm... dogs are kind of grubby.
I am not sure there is a documented first cheese man.
Probably some yak hearder in east asia.
 
11:20 PM
Yes. That's why I don't really like dogs, to be honest. I'm a cat dog.
 
You know that was a cartoon here in the US, but I am too old so I never really watched it. Only know about it from an unfortunate wait in an airline waiting room.
 
Shouldn't there be some corporation collecting royalties for yak herder?
 
Ahh.
 
The yak herders got annexed by China and have no rights.
 
11:21 PM
@SAJ14SAJ I remember them.
@SAJ14SAJ ! That's not proper copyright! Yak herder should own the world and destroy every single ordinary citizen with law suits!
Meanwhile, I need to tend to my tea. BRB.
 
whistles like a tea pot
 
Hah you won't fool me.
It's your nose.
 
I figured the sonic dissonance from six ears is hard to track things with.
You don't feel for the tibetan yak herders who are involuntary citizens of China?
 
Sure.
My mother pays money to some Tibetan charity every month.
Incidentally:
Huh wtf!?
The gif isn't moving!
 
It is for me.... please, no more narcoleptc kitten. It just makes me sad.
type
scroll
type
 
11:31 PM
Why sad?
 
scroll
thie kitty has a disability.
 
Naaah.
That's normal for kittens.
 
I have never seen a kitten do that.
They don't slow down long enough to sit in the first place, unless they are already somnulent. Kittens have two speeds: zero, and what was that????
 
I have seen kittens fall asleep unexpectedly and in weird positions. It honestly looks completely normal to me.
 
Not in a looped gif!
 
11:34 PM
Suure it does.
 
Where is your kitty?
 
Nowhere...:-(
 
Why are you bereft of feline companionship?
 
Know that I only use a smiley once every so many years!
 
Smilies are essential for internet chatting :-}
 
11:38 PM
I am bereft because I am away too often, there isn't really a way for kitty to go outside (a must for me), and...well, that's it.
@SAJ14SAJ On the contrary, I hate them!
But that's a different discussion.
 
In my mind you are a college professor... or perhaps student--that isn't clear... where would you go?
 
Student.
 
Well, I assume you are always joking, but if someone didn't know you, how would they know?
 
My apartment isn't huge.
 
PhD candidate... you mentioned a dissertation at some point I think?
 
11:39 PM
If someone didn't know, it would be either my intention, or the lack of a brain on the other person's side!
No, MA thesis, but let's not talk about that hateful, hateful thing.
 
Remember, with my patented "how many kitties rule", even a small apartment can accommodate one kitty... you just need 400 square feet. Which is something in square meters, I just don't care :-)
 
I'm a bit drunk, so let's think happy thoughts!
 
So how does a young graduate student for der Nederlands speak english in typing like a near native?
Why are you drunk? Sad about the king?
 
Haha no, I went out to a bar with friends, just got home.
 
wonders how they card a three headed dog... maybe Europe is more liberal
 
11:41 PM
Card?
Oh, the bar?
 
In the US, to purchase alcoholic beverages, you must be... some age, 21 I think. Checking the ID is called, colloquially, carding.
 
I'm not that young, although my 31-year-old friend still gets asked for her ID a lot when she's buying cigarettes! The minimum age is 16.
 
Tell her to stop smoking :-) Or maybe she is flattered by the attention.
 
@SAJ14SAJ Yeah I understand now. You can buy drinks at 16 here.
Oh, I tell her to stop all the time.
But it gets annoying. I know how it works. At some point you have to stop reminding people.
 
You know Amsterdam has kind of a reputation here in the US.
 
11:43 PM
Reeaally.
I had no idea.
So shocked.
 
You just squirt her cigerrettes with a squirt gun.
I thought you would be.
I have never been.
 
Umm what?
 
Actually, I have never been outside North America.
 
A squirt gun?
I have been to Asia once, for half an hour or so.
 
Half an hour? Stopping over in an airplane?
 
11:45 PM
No, in Istanbul. Half the city is in Asia.
@SAJ14SAJ Ahh right.
Haha, yes, I could do that. I doubt whether it would be received in good spirit, though...you know what addicts are like...
 
Now I have that darn song in my head. Istanbul or constanople.
 
I might like to visit New York.
 
Why new york?
 
Because...it's Dutch?
No, because it's the place where it's happening.
 
Erm.... maybe 400 years ago!
Where what is happening?
 
11:48 PM
And because our friend the ambassador has a fantastic apartment there.
But they're leaving this fall.
My mother is visiting them, she's leaving next week.
 
Hmm....
 
But I'm too late.
 
I have been to NY many times, used to live on Long Island. I guess its just a city to me.
 
Right.
It's the no. 1 destination for Europeans.
 
Did you watch Sasha dance to that song? She is not my favorite bunhead though.
 
11:49 PM
Err I listened to it?
 
Really? I thought they liked to go to the Cote D'Azure or Greece for their summer vacations.
 
Isn't that the song by the ehh guys who sang about Triangle Man?
@SAJ14SAJ The no. 1 destination in the Americas, I mean.
I think Paris, London, and New York are the places where you have to have been to.
 
I don't know if they did Triangle Man. The name of the group is... darn... I am blanking.... They Might be Giants
 
Yes!!
 
I have been to NY
 
11:51 PM
@SAJ14SAJ I knew it was about Don Quixote, but I couldn't remember their name either.
@SAJ14SAJ That's 1!! I have been to Paris, but only drove through the suburbs of London once.
 
My favorite bunhead is the adult one in the middle, she is closer to my age. But my favorite baby bunhead is the cute one on the left.
 
Cute.
 
There is another show about baby dancers from Australia that I watched. There are some awefully pretty children on that show.
 
Dressed like prostitutes?
 
No, usually they dress like dancers.
 
11:55 PM
Ah.
 
This is the Australian show cast.
 
Hmm.
 
The short one on the right is the evil girl, and this picture doesn't show her well, but she is very, very pretty.
 
None look like my types.
 
Not a lot of good pictures of these kids.
 
11:58 PM
Cute.
By the way, why do they say "old New York"?
 
In the Constantinople song?
 

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