The DMZ

Rоry McCune

4:00 PM

google.com/maps/place/Loch+Goil/@56.0604938,-4.9131232,11z/…

David Freitag

Jesus they have been pushing updates for chrome like crazy for the past week :|

TildalWave

@RоryMcCune ah yes, I fired up google maps too :) does it get really steep on some parts of its shore or it's not exactly like those Scandinavian fjords?

Rоry McCune

@TildalWave there are bits that are pretty steep, but in general it's a bit more gradual, so there's a lot of roads and things that run along the lochsides

TildalWave

@RоryMcCune Lochan means a small lake?

Rоry McCune

@TildalWave well small loch, but then in scotland there's only one official lake and all the rest are lochs :)

so kind of the same thing

CodesInChaos

4:08 PM

Though the Scots still need to learn that the plural of Loch is Löcher ;)

TildalWave

@RоryMcCune I thought loch = lake :) So lochan < loch < lake < sea?

Rоry McCune

@TildalWave lochan < loch < sea. The only lake in scotland is the lake of menteith

not that I'm sure why that's the case mind but there it is...

TildalWave

ah, so just one of those things that nobody can explain... like the German language :))

sorry @CodesInChaos I just had to poke you there a bit :P

AviD

@RоryMcCune cool, you live in a national park?

though I dont recognize any distillery near by... I am confused.

Rоry McCune

@AviD yep the loch lomand /trossachs area is all national park.

hmm ya know I've not gone local distillary exploring as yet...

TildalWave

4:14 PM

just follow the wobbly lane markings :)

AviD

@TildalWave It's Scotland! you dont have to follow any lane to find a distillery, you're already there! Always!

TildalWave

@AviD not much different here actually, we just also have more wine on top of that... you know, if you get thirsty and such

Terry Chia

4:29 PM

Youtube is very slow today.

@ton.yeung No, it has site issues. Constantly getting 502s.

TildalWave

@AviD Wait, someone was defacing my question?? How dare they?! Damn "bustards"!! :)

AviD

ahh, were YOU the romanian bustard they were referring to?

TildalWave

@AviD neah, doubt it ... first, I'm not Romanian, and second, there's some mention of one Romanian ex prisoner / inventor in the answers

AviD

yeah, but to these 'merkans all you east yurpeeyans are all the same.

TildalWave

@AviD that'd be true if I was from East Europe :P

CodesInChaos

4:41 PM

I think they were actually talking about a buzzard

AviD

'Merkans can't read a map!

TildalWave

@AviD they can appreciate the change in attitude tho, can't they? :P

For example, I've been know to be exceptionally polite and patient, and that's clearly a western trade, you know, the lethargy and generally not giving a damn... :P

AviD

hmm, @Adnan and @Kisunminttu both just left the room at the same time.

Must have something to do with a lantern on the balcony.

TildalWave

Any news on the flight 370 disappearance act?

Xander

@TildalWave Only that they seem to know less every day.

TildalWave

4:57 PM

@Xander So, in a nutshell, no, but there's no lack of those ready to speculate on it? Let me guess... aliens, terrorists, North Korea,...?

Rory Alsop

depressed pilot

Xander

@TildalWave Yes. And today, I also saw "struck by a meteor?" added to the list.

Rory Alsop

probably

TildalWave

some days I'm grateful I haven't been on Twitter much

Rory Alsop

according to all my pilot friends

symptoms could all easily fit that profile

or James Bond

Xander

4:59 PM

@RoryAlsop They did search the pilot's house, I saw.

Rory Alsop

There have been three or four of those in recent months

Xander

Haven't said what, if anything, they found.

TildalWave

nobody suggested a megalodon snatching it?

Rory Alsop

nah - they don't eat metal

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop sure they do

►

and here's proof :))

Xander

5:01 PM

I fully expect someone to theorize that they're doing a reality TV version of Lost.

TildalWave

or Pacific Rim

AviD

@TildalWave how about snakes?

hmm. cant search for that on youtube.

Thomas Pornin

@Xander Well, it may happen.

Apparently, an Italian monk back in the 13th century was struck by a meteor.

A plane, as a target, is bigger than a monk's head.

Xander

@ThomasPornin That is true. It may. I'm not sure that makes it worthy of a story headline on the CNN website. It appears the editors of CNN, however, disagree with me.

Thomas Pornin

@Xander No news is good news, but CNN lives and thrives on bad news, not good news.

Xander

5:14 PM

This is why I find myself visiting CNN less and less frequently.

@ThomasPornin I prefer to believe that it's because CNN is run primarily by semi-trained baboons.

TildalWave

@ThomasPornin Not impossible, but doubt it, it was reported that the plane was tracked off course for over an hour and with all responders / trackers turned off. That's simply not consistent with an abrupt end to the whole ordeal.

Xander

5:54 PM

Is SE actively trying to kill off chat? First they remove the chat link from the header, and now I never see the chat widget on the main site sidebar any more. It always use to come and go, but now it pretty much just always seems to be gone.

Rory Alsop

I don't do news. Things skull through my filter, but I actively try and avoid any non security news. I do not do radio, I don't watch tv news, I don't visit news websites. Some still gets through though

FEichinger

@ManishEarth

(And anyone else who was involved in that discussion.)

Simon

6:17 PM

PARTY PEOPLE

gimme ma bed :(

Rory Alsop

But you are in canadurr - surely you are around midday now.

Simon

went to bed at 5, got up at 11h30 >.<

wait, that's 6h30 of sleep

more than enough, I'm such a pussy

That can't be right.

o

so you weren't even lifting

ManishEarth

6:38 PM

@FEichinger I get cc'd, I know :)

TildalWave

So I've been again in a discussion about what a bad guy I am for trying to enforce community decisions as a mod, then later realized I'm trying to convince someone that hasn't even the Informed badge on any of the sites he's registered, nor participates in chats or site metas... serves me right I guess, for trying to persuade an ignorant [...] that we're not there for his own amusement.

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop and any other musicy types might like this kickstarter.com/projects/1003614822/…

TildalWave

@FEichinger seems it's going in the only direction that I thought makes sense too

AJ Henderson

@RоryMcCune ok, I definitely inserted an R in there when I read that link at first

Rоry McCune

@AJHenderson yeah it's a weird name..

AJ Henderson

6:47 PM

honestly, it's funnier with an R

@RоryMcCune I want a FLAC based streaming service

or subscription anyway

I'm not convinced enough of the quality of the player until I see it to kickstarter it

TildalWave

@RоryMcCune It just went from about $1.2M to $1.7M backing in what, half an hour?

copy

Can humans hear the difference between an mp3 with a high bitrate and flacs?

TildalWave

@copy dunno about humans, but I can :)

mp3 is flat no matter how high bitrate it has

flac is lossless so equivalent to what you'd get from a CD, with only difference in sound produced by the DAC

but I can't say I like CDs all that much either, can't really beat a good analogue source like an 8-track or vinyl (on proper equipment, of course)

AJ Henderson

@copy yes

though between certain levels of flac, not so much

copy

7:03 PM

Alright, was just wondering

AJ Henderson

what people can't tell is sampling frequencies above double our hearing range

so final audio output doesn't have to be above 44.1khz and certainly doesn't have to be above 48khz. Bit depth arguably doesn't have to be above 16 bit, though there may be a little tiny bit of advantage to 24 bit

but certainly you can hear compression if you know what you are listening for

that said, if the average person really notices is more of a question mark

most people don't listen to the full spectrum of audio

copy

I have taken a test some time ago and failed badly, I wouldn't consider myself an audiophile though

AJ Henderson

but if you are a musician or particularly a sound guy, you notice a lot other people don't

TildalWave

it's IMO not so much about the frequency range, that's good enough with high-bitrate compression too, but they just sound flat and the dynamic range is often non-existent... it's difficult to compare with anything, but it feels like overly-processed photoshopped images compared to their originals, like something isn't quite right and you can't feel it

AJ Henderson

@TildalWave that is more a problem of how CDs are produced now

studio work plays to the lowest denominator

instead of focusing on what would sound good on good hardware

Adnan

7:08 PM

@AviD Yeah, I was screwing her lantern on the balcony.

3

TildalWave

@AJHenderson well yes, also but it's also inherent to the media

Adnan

It's been loose for a while

and when it's windy, it makes squeaking sounds

AJ Henderson

@TildalWave not really, you can make a perfect reproduction of the sound wave within the space of our hearing and within the noise floor of our ears with a 48khz 16 bit signal

if you listen really loud, you might make use of another bit or two of depth

or if your hearing is particularly good

certainly 24 bit 48khz is sufficient for covering anything you can possibly hear accurately

but most of the flatness is not making use of the DR that 16 bits allows

the vast, vast majority. Try recording your own 16 bit files sometime

and play with the DR

it's pretty huge

TildalWave

@AJHenderson Well that's the theory at least, and I'm not saying I can explain it, but I do hear the difference and am favoring analogue. And I have plenty of equipment to test all this on, a few complete hi-fi rigs here, and an access to a whole big shop any time I want. We've often sat around and listened with the same purpose of determining which ones sound better, and most of us would agree. It's hard to explain it though, it's largely subjective.

I also used to go to a recording studio carrying my own headphones with me, and came to the same conclusion there.

Rоry McCune

@AJHenderson yeah there definitely seems like an element of this where they're trying to get people back on the "pay per album to download" model and at $14-$24 an album that might be a tricky sell, despite the quality element

AJ Henderson

7:32 PM

@RоryMcCune honestly, for a subscription service, I'd pay $40 a month for studio quality streams

and/or downloads

I just don't want to have to buy music. I listen to a song a certain number of times and then move on generally

it isn't cost effective for me to buy music because of how I consume it

tylerl

7:59 PM

@AJHenderson mp3ornot.com

@AJHenderson screenshot & post your results for 10 trials.

tylerl

8:15 PM

@ton.yeung yeah. I ask myself that every day.

@ton.yeung neither do I.

I was hoping to get you to clarify.

Adnan

9:05 PM

Need moar downvoats!!

-2

A: Why do some websites enforce lack of SSL?

Over and over again, we get the same question: Why doesn't website X use HTTPS? Take your pick: Idiocy, stupidity, bureaucracy, "this is how we've always done it", "we shouldn't add more complications", "we don't need SSL", etc. On modern hardware, in our time now, there's no reasonable justific...

No, actually, I need some explanation. That wasn't just a rant, that was my actual opinion on the matter. I'd like to see where I went wrong.

Gilles

@Adnan done

Adnan

@Gilles HTTPS*

@Gilles and thanks for your comment

Gilles

You've been getting curter and curter these past few months, to the point where you're getting ruder and ruder. You should try to take things less seriously.

Even if you want to convince people to adopt and support HTTPS, insulting the ones who don't do it won't help your cause

Adnan

@Gilles I know which incidence you mean. There's only one previous incidence, and it's with you. I find it extremely unfair to base your opinion on one incidence after which you started to have a clear bias.

I highly appreciate the comment, and I edited the answer to make it more suitable

Gilles

@Adnan Oh, that's good. Because I have no idea what incident you're refering to.

Adnan

9:15 PM

@Gilles We both know which incidence. It's that question's closure.

Gilles

So then, another piece of friendly advice: don't always start from the principle that you know better than everyone else.

@Adnan again, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about

Adnan

@Gilles Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. When I do know more than somebody else, I do act accordingly. Sometimes, like anybody else, I misjudge the situation.

In this case, in the context of the question, in the case of eBay, I can bet half of my knowledge on the fact that any reason they can produce for not using SSL is bullshit.

and I stand firmly behind that

FEichinger

@TildalWave Hm?

Adnan

Really? I was flagged for "offensive"?

Heh. I guess that describing sysadmins as monkeys and calling Dave an idiot is alright. However, saying that something is "bullsh*t", gets you flagged as offensive

I understand that the answer wasn't the greatest, and it wasn't worded that well, but "offensive"? Heh

Gilles

@Adnan how would you know? I didn't think you'd know unless the answer was deleted for it (by 6 offensive flags or a moderator's offensive flag)

TildalWave

9:23 PM

@FEichinger oh to disable dev tools by default

FEichinger

@TildalWave But they clearly don't want that direction.

TildalWave

@FEichinger No? Damn, does that mean I'll really have to read ALL of it? :)

FEichinger

It's not all that long.

TildalWave

it isn't I just finished reading where I left it before

FEichinger

I love how the decision for a CSP directive stems from "No browser setting for something like that because philosophy!" and "It's only an issue for Facebook."

TildalWave

9:28 PM

I agree that it shouldn't be handled on the protocol level, but surely having switchable user mode in browsers can't be bad, even if that could only be issued as an advisory to browser devs

FEichinger

They want to add something into the protocol because they a) don't want it in the browser settings and b) think it relates only to one site.

So, I'll just go ahead and say it then:

PEOPLE. THAT'S NOT WHAT PROTOCOLS ARE FOR.

I've said it before, I wouldn't be opposed to a way of "hiding" certain nodes from JS scope. Say, the value node of a password field, or of an abusable textarea.

Heck, even childNodes of ad space.

TildalWave

@FEichinger that's exactly what I'm saying too

so...

WHY BOLD CAPS??

:P

FEichinger

BECAUSE OTHER PEOPLE.

TildalWave

@FEichinger that's the @Simon in you speaking?

FEichinger

@Simon is not in me.

TildalWave

9:33 PM

there's only one way to prove that

FEichinger

NO RECTALLY INSERTED METAL. NO. NOT AGAIN.

5

TildalWave

there you go, finally something star-worthy

all these caps for nothing! bleeping amateurs!

anyway... afk, gotta eat that cheese sandwich before it turns green

AJ Henderson

@tylerl it isn't working for me. My phone never plays anything when I click the second step

my browser just crashes

which means I'll have to break out some adapters to hook up my good sound card on my PC to my headphones

Rоry McCune

9:53 PM

Impressively I think we've managed to fill the star wall with things that are completely nothing to do with security, whatsoever

I wonder what a word cloud of the starwall would look like....

FEichinger

The current star list or the entire star list?

Rоry McCune

@FEichinger well the current one is quite easy to work out, but the whole list (all 7034 of them) would be kind of interesting...

FEichinger

It's just 141 pages.

BRB.

AJ Henderson

10:12 PM

@tylerl - I got 70%, mostly because I got bored. I did 5 in a row perfectly then screwed up 3 of the last 5 because I got bored in a hurry and started trying to do it from memory. That test is also a little bit disingenuous as all the samples are either muddy or sparse, which compress well

lots of little detail is what gives away compression

the first clip I got every time because of the singing overlapping the music and the cymbal because it loses clarity in the ring of the cymbal which is easy to pick out

I wasn't actually even listening to the source files at the end for that one and got it every time

it would also be far easier if I could cue it to exactly where I wanted, the best points to tell the difference on the second and third are near the end of the clip

and it is very hard to keep the profile of a sound in your head while listening through the whole thing

which is part of why many people claim to hear a difference but can't identify it

because it is hard to tell them apart even if you hear the increased clarity because you have to be able to identify what you are hearing

the strongest part on the second was the strum just before the last major strum going in to the final strum on the second clip and the third is really hard because you have to do it off the sounds of the breaths

because they are the only things that are low enough level signals that aren't completely muddy to start with

if you did the same test with music I really knew well and that actually needs the extra data rate, then I could do it off the top of my head no problem

tylerl

10:30 PM

@AJHenderson if you understand how MP3 compression works -- if you understand the psychoacoustic model of the encoding software, then you have some idea of the bit distribution across the frequency spectrum and you know what to look for.

The more I use btrfs at home, the more frustrated I get about the absence of its features on other filesystems. I think things like "why can't I just snapshot the one directory" and "why does sorting through 10 million files in one dir take so long?"

(first world problems)

AJ Henderson

@tylerl yeah, exactly, it definitely takes a lot of practice and an understanding of the theory to pick it out, though less so if there is more fine detail in it. We suck at identifying differences in tone

so you have to know what to key on

I spent a good 8 or 9 times listening to each clip to identify the markers

but I'd also maintain that is an actual distinction an average person can hear, they just can't identify

for the same reason that an average person can enjoy a well mixed audio mix but can't tell you what to change in an eq

Rоry McCune

5

word cloud from starred posts for the DMZ

FEichinger

@RоryMcCune I hate you.

I just finished mine.

Rоry McCune

@FEichinger heh

how did you do yours?

FEichinger

5

Rоry McCune

10:42 PM

ooh nice

mine was nokogiri for the getting and parsing and wordle for the cloud

couldn't find a rubygem to do it

FEichinger

I manually went through the pages and scraped with a simple JS, pushing it into a JSON array, joined that into one string and there we have it. Half-way through I was contemplating automatising it, but I figured that'd just take longer. And same here as for wordle.

Rоry McCune

@FEichinger yeah my selector was kind of lame so I had to take a run through to get rid of some of the cruft

so yours is likely more accurate

Iszi

@FEichinger I can't find boobies. I'm pretty sure they're under-represented.

FEichinger

@Iszi Bottom left.

Light blue.

Slightly above "beer".

Which, I suppose, is fitting.

Iszi

@FEichinger That only confirms it.

tylerl

10:46 PM

Here's a fun fact: Did you know that Sweden and Finland are technically third-world countries? Or rather, they were in the original sense of the phrase. Same goes for Ireland and Switzerland and Austria.

AviD

Brilliant. But I think names should be removed.

AJ Henderson

hmm, what happened to D3C4FF

tylerl

@AJHenderson changed his name IIRC

Rоry McCune

@AviD @FEichinger well removing @'s would be simple enough, but names mentioned without that could be trickier...

AJ Henderson

yeah, NULLZ but haven't seen him active either

Rоry McCune

10:47 PM

also names show who the biggest chatters are....

AviD

@tylerl yeah, I was pretty surprised when I found out the original meaning of the term.

@RоryMcCune well obviously.

AJ Henderson

@RоryMcCune or who are most talked at anyway

AviD

@RоryMcCune oo! separate wordcloud!

Rоry McCune

@AJHenderson true

@AviD that should be do-able (calling @FEichinger sounds like you have a new wordcloud to do :op )

FEichinger

Seriously, if we extend this any further, I'll just build an actual site for it.

Rоry McCune

10:50 PM

@FEichinger if you do that, you should use node.JS and mongodb

2

FEichinger

node.JS ... ಠ_ಠ

Iszi

@tylerl I thought I'd heard the same about USA at some point.

@FEichinger DO IT

FEichinger

@Iszi NO

I don't have time for this!

tylerl

@Iszi 1st world was USA, UK, and allies. 2nd world was USSR and allies. 3rd world was unaligned during cold war.

Iszi

@tylerl Oh.

tylerl

10:56 PM

Russian Lawmaker Wants to Abolish the Letter 'ы'

Not a parody

> Vladimir Zhirinovsky says the "nasty Asiatic" vowel is hurting Russia's image in Europe.

TildalWave

@tylerl that's hilarious

especially if you can pronounce it

> "Only animals make this sound, 'ы- ы,'" he said

►

Rоry McCune

there's the ats from my data

and without ats

hmm think @FEichinger 's version would be better, looks like I still have some junk HTML in there...

FEichinger

3

That should be all Ats stripped.

Rоry McCune

surprisingly little swearing in there

Gilles

@RоryMcCune amp is suspiciously popular, either the other Rory's been talking about guitars a lot or you committed a grave sin for a pentester

Rоry McCune

11:06 PM

@Gilles well I was doing it in a v.hacky way, so just like a pentester

takes a proper developer to do it the right way

Gilles

Also, I expected more said, she, that and what

FEichinger

Oooh, I found "porn".

@Gilles Nah, that's usually abbreviated.

Gilles

@FEichinger nowadays yes, but it used to be usually spelled out

anyway, the conclusion is that we think just like people get.

FEichinger

"get hit" Heh.

@Gilles just like get one think people know good

Also: "much need question"

Gilles

Rory isn't even as big as security

3

FEichinger

11:10 PM

"now really"

@Gilles Would be, if it wasn't case sensitive.

Actually, nevermind, not even then.

TildalWave

@RоryMcCune how come "nofollow" is so big?

FEichinger

@TildalWave HTML garbage.

Gilles

@TildalWave because Zalgo

(aka someone tried to parse HTML with regex)

tylerl

@Gilles you can tokenize HTML with a regex.

Gilles

bͤ̀̂̓͛͡ẽ̸̌̎́҉č̴̅̆̋͋̂a͋̓̂ͤ̈́͒ű̅ͪ̆̀ͦ̀͝͡s̡̄̎̾̓̈́̕ẻ͋͂ͪ͊͡ ̌̎͋̀̚͞š̢ͯ̑̈́̄̉o̾ͮͭ̽͠͞m̶ͧ͂̑ͨ͝e̶̢ͪ̎̽͂̀ô̷̧͆̽̊̋̎̓ṅͬͮͦ̽̿͒ͧȩ̶ͫ̽̄̉ͩ̀ ̶̶͆ͮ͐̅ͭ͋̏̚͠t̵͆͛̎ͫr̿̄͑͐̑i̿̀̃ͣ͋̿̄e̾̆͛͂̊ḋ͊͛͑ͭ͜͟ ͦͮ́ͫt̷͌̇͐͐̀͘õ͘҉̡ ̵̒̈̕p̍̐̔͜͞a͂ͬͦͦ҉̨̡rͧ̊ͫ̄ͦ͏̶s̽̔̂̂̌ͫ͑e͐̑ͤͬ͐̐̚͠ ͨ͘͝H̨̓͌͆ͬ̀̀̏̆̌͘T͒͌̈́̃̈́ͦ͡M̒̅̂ͪͫͥͤͥLͧͦ͗ͯ͐̈́̑ ̢ͤ̎̿̐ͨ͛̈́̚̚w͊̎͗̽ͥ͠ȉ̉ͩͩ̐҉̡tͩ̄҉̴̧h̾̆͜͞ ͩ̏ͩṙ̉̀͟e̷͌͆̂͆͋gͧ̅͒̋͛́͏͘ǘ͂ͨ͏l̷ͬ̽͗ͩ̉ͦ̅͘a̍͗̈́̐͑̓͠͝r̆̋̾ͬ͐̀̇͟͞ ̶̓ͮ̂̍̀e̡ͣ̈́ͪxͣͪͯ̍ͪͣ͗p̿͆̄͊r̄̓͒͛ͩͣ͋̾͛͜e͛̑̋ͯ͋̾͞͠s͛͗̍҉҉s̛ͧi̴̅̅͒͊̍ͪ́ȏ̢́̾͊ͦ̐ͧ͞n̸̨ͪ̎͋͠s‌̈ͫ́̔ͧ̾͝

3

TildalWave

11:19 PM

@Gilles next step, make it a playable tetris

FEichinger

"mods" is smaller than "kids". Hah.

The general area around "fuck" also has some ... interesting combinations.

TildalWave

@FEichinger so what's the input for this one?

FEichinger

"hard head mom", "fuck happy guy/kids", "everybody feel interested", "end hell"

Gilles

right is bigger than wrong and like is bigger than hate. The guys in the comms room would laugh at us.

TildalWave

@Gilles is there anything guys over at comms room don't laugh at?

FEichinger

11:23 PM

@TildalWave This array joined into a string, then matched for names, stripped and packaged.

TildalWave

@FEichinger so just all the starred posts?

FEichinger

@TildalWave Yes.

TildalWave

@FEichinger can you please use wordle on meta.security.stackexchange.com/feeds I don't have java installed on this machine

it's a rss feed

I gather that should be easy enough, just copy/paste url and run

FEichinger

If you turn it 90° clockwise, it kinda looks like a tree ...

I also love that superuser URI in there.

TildalWave

it looks cool

not as funny as the starred ones tho

FEichinger

11:30 PM

TildalWave

30

Q: The Memes of Information Security

There are memes common to whole Stack Exchange. But after spending some time in The DMZ it becomes evident that Information Security has it's own memes (e.g. rory). I therefore propose that this space be used to document the memes endemic to Information Security's culture. One meme per answer p...

discussion

FEichinger

Boiled down to top 150 words.

TildalWave

parsing this one should be fun

FEichinger

Anyway, I'm done.

TildalWave

aye, no problem, thanks!

tylerl

11:35 PM

Here's another fun fact: The band "The Police" was originally named "Fuck The Police" but they had to clean up. That according to Stewart Copeland.

Transcript for