The DMZ

@TildalWave You say that like it's fun....

@kiBytes Good afternoon

@TerryChia it was fun

@TildalWave Sadist. :P

Even perl is better than pascal!

3:02 PM

@TerryChia you mean "masochist"?

@TerryChia c'mon pascal is absolutely great, what's wrong with it?

afk

IT'S AS OLD AS RORY

THAT'S WHAT'S WRONG WITH IT

@TildalWave Dunno. I'm just spewing random language hate because I'm bored. :P

I didn't actually do much pascal, but I had the impression that I didn't like it very much.

Yeah me too

Pascal is what c should have been.

So we are 18 days away from going production with this very big project in the enterprise I am working for

so, now, the security team has 18 days to guess how to make the system more secure

they want to go live with the private key they have been using during the development

the key is stored plain

3:09 PM

@kiBytes Redirect logs into /dev/null. Out of sight, out of mind.

in the repo

the repo which anybody can read (even the outsourced personal that has already left the enterprise)

@TerryChia Out of sight, out of mind?!? Have you ever loved someone?

by the way, we have a CA

an official one

they have made a certificate out of the private key

and they have created a CA via openssl

to issue the certificate xD

I'd use my own CA as well

the CA is stored in the same path as the private key on the production server

3:12 PM

standard CAs are only useful for standard clients like browsers

just beside the files that need to be signed

but for custom clients I prefer a custom CA

We have our custom CA in our enterprise

we don't really need to create a new one each time a development has been done

I can't really go into details

but this is a very big company

A per-product CA key doesn't sound too insane. But of course the rest you said is very insane

my enterprise billing is around 1 B €

(American billions, 1 and 9 ceros )

3:17 PM

@kiBytes going production on a friday?

the whole weekend

@CodesInChaos Everyone does that. You also make sure to close your phone during the weekend.

mostly sat-sun

I am currently in the development team

but I am moving to the security team

within a pair of weeks

@Simon I actually did that this friday. Deployed and went on a 6h train ride without internet access.

(Though my colleagues were still reachable, so it's not that bad)

@CodesInChaos Did all hell break loose?

3:20 PM

And I'm afraid they are going to assign me this whole brown

Ah.

brown (in Spain) is slang

(Marrón)

and it is usually used as: "to eat a brown"

That sounds dirty as hell.

and that means: "get in trouble"

when a lot of "browns" goes down the hill

we usually say: "now here it comes the brown dispatcher"

You're not helping your case at all.

Am I the only one with a dirty mind on this one? I'd appreciate a confirmation.

3:24 PM

It is less like dick and more like shit

In Spain nobody thinks in dicks when talking about "browns"

we think in "shit", directly, everybody understand the same

So if you are in Spain and somebody tries to make you resolve a problem he began then you can use: "No, you are the one eating this brown" "No, este marrón te lo vas a comer tú"

Spanish women are suddenly less attractive to me now.

3:42 PM

@ton.yeung That's racist.

@TerryChia It's a pretty good language IMO, forces you to be consistent and at the same time isn't too limiting, you can still do anything in it. And for object pascal, there are some really well written classes out there, and some nice IDEs (original Delphi is still my fav and many have copied from it later on). Easy to debug too, so all in all IMO a quality cp language / compiler. The rest is then personal choice anyway.

I'd easily recommend it to anyone that wants to learn OOP

java

python

Most C# 1.x improvements over java came from pascal/delphi.

well, OK but it's not that difficult to jump to C#, Java, JS, whateverticklesyourfancy++ from a well structured language like pascal

3:45 PM

@ton.yeung Dude, python is all about OOP.

@CodesInChaos from Borland to be precise

Every freaking thing in python is an object.

your face is an object

2

Yeah like the class your mom.

hehe

3:46 PM

what python lacks is static typing (though admittedly the static type system of C# isn't too great either)

Hence why I said Java, it's way better in Java.

when I looked at your face I got an object variable or with block variable not set. I handled it.

(I have no fucking clue what I'm saying)

5

@ton.yeung This is a little deep, but it explains a lot: stackoverflow.com/a/6581949/1170681

I heard that AviD likes deep things

3:49 PM

There are two features I'd like very much, that C# lacks: 1) Non nullable types 2) A kind of interface that doesn't need to be implemented explicitly. (Similar to golang)

Why do you tease the old man like that? You know that his sexual life must be nonexistent.

@TerryChia and that's why Python isn't what it could've been

@Simon I just wanted a star in the star list, it was looking a little kalina-less

@TildalWave ?

@TerryChia everything is a bleeping object in Py

3:51 PM

I'd also like to specify multiple interface types for paramters/fields/etc.

@TildalWave And that's bad why?

@CodesInChaos Golang looks pretty awesome actually.

@TerryChia Some parts do. Some parts suck.

why can't it be hometime yet

Do they have generics or templates by now?

@CodesInChaos That's true of most languages really.

3:53 PM

A statically typed language without some kind of generics is crippled.

@kalina Kalina-less is not a bad thing, it's actually positive most of the time I'd say. For instance, my life would suck if it'd be full of kalina.

@TerryChia well it's a memory hog for one

@Simon s/kalina/simon

@Simon you're willing to kick me while I'm down and distracted? Is that what you're doing? Do you think that's wise?

I still don't understand reddit.

3:54 PM

I still don't understand twitter.

@kalina Evil has no rest.

I still don't understand men.

I still don't understand responsive design

@TildalWave hey I understand RWD

@kalina what's that?

3:55 PM

Rear wheel drive?

responsive web design -.-

brief flicker of light

@kalina I have grown to have a certain response to it

dies out as quickly as it appears

for a split second I thought I finally fit in

RWD == crap

and then wooosh

my hopes and dreams, shattered

because shattering makes a woosh

3:56 PM

Depressive people are so depressive.

This statement is slightly redundant.

@TildalWave That's completely untrue. And really, if python is a memory hog you are using the wrong freaking language for the job.

@Simon 99% of what you say is redundant

and I'm being kind and generous with my estimates

@kalina I like turtles.

@ton.yeung It looks crap, works as well on all platforms as Java does, and it doesn't solve anything. It just gives web designers a few more fancy and meaningless words to throw at their clients, so they spend shitloads of money on redesigning what used to make sense to what doesn't

@TildalWave the idea is it's meant to mean you don't need a separate mobile site

in practice you're probably better off with a mobile site

3:59 PM

@kalina Look at you knowing stuff, surprising.

@kalina which is retarded, because you actually have more work with RWD than if you simply designed the site two times... and it'd make a whole lot more sense too

#FeelinEvil

@ton.yeung I have yet to see one site that went to RWD and didn't make me wanna spend my time somewhere else

@Simon your opinions are meaningless, you're Canadian.

@ton.yeung No, I want to be able to have non nullable properties/paramters/return values of a reference type.

4:00 PM

You guys like RWD so much, I bet you never drive in snow otherwise you'd know that AWD is the shit.

Far too much of my code is Contract.Requires<ArgumentException>(x != null)

look at the DMZ with its three active conversations concurrently

Me? Off-topic? Ha!

Simon? Ha!

@kalina Man, you really are depressed. Your insults/ways to laugh at me used to be much better. Get your shit together.

4:02 PM

@ton.yeung yes

@Simon you're not worth the effort!

I am not depressed

I just don't want to be at work

Then leave?

I figured that's a pretty normal state for anybody to be in

I'd also like to say foo(IEnumerable<T>&IIndexable<T> bar)

I can't, they give me money to be here

and I like money

requiring bar to implement both interfaces, without jumping to generics

4:03 PM

Why don't you become a gold digger then?

^

@ton.yeung none of those people have functioning hearts

Well, I'm still alive so I'm assuming that it's functioning properly.

you're powered by a mixture of hate and spite

That's very poetic, I like it.

@ton.yeung do driving instructors really come in sub-fields that narrowly defined?

@ton.yeung they're all boring

I'm so close to falling asleep against my wishes

Iszi

4:13 PM

@kalina Oh, those are so often the best sleeps.

@TerryChia late back to the DMZ, but gorramit, no - Pascal rocks :-)

4:41 PM

@kalina Oh, very interesting. Tell me more about it.

David Freitag

@kalina Roofies again? @Simon strikes again

>:)

@DavidFreitag yeah... it's the "again" bit that's worrying, I'm almost so tolerant to them that I'm still actually awake atm

David Freitag

@kalina I guess that could be considered a good thing?

I mean, if you can get past all the date rape, that is.

OH GOD I'M REALLY WIRED TODAY

WHAT SHALL I DO

mmmm... Rohypnol

...

4:48 PM

That's Link. Zelda is a girl.

@Simon :|

@Simon yep

Unless...Zelda really is a boy and it's a long life story of forbidden love.

@Simon not from Terrahawks she ain't

wadafuk is dat

4:51 PM

Dats Zelda

Your mom.

MA MUM?

@Simon ^

No, your mom.

I know, "mum" is ugly.

4:53 PM

Also sounds like ma'am.

Does it?

From people who say mum, yes.

ew

Ma'am is for royalty. Mum is for your mother. Mom is for 'Murricans. Ma - well, we don't go there

@RoryAlsop How about Da'ad?

4:58 PM

how bout mommy and mummy? :)

How about daddy?

How about "Who's your daddy?"?

Is it duddy?

@TildalWave same as above but for young'uns

@RoryAlsop Ma'am is what we call women out of respect.

@RoryAlsop and moo-ma and moo-pa?

5:02 PM

@TildalWave don't get all weird on us now

@ScottPack Respect is what you won't get from women after calling them ma'am.

Apparently, some thing it makes them seem old

@ScottPack aye - like royalty, and senior ranks in the forces etc

@RoryAlsop that's Manny from Black Books :P

@TildalWave I knew it sounded familiar but couldn't remember :-)

@Adnan It's all in the tone.

5:03 PM

@ScottPack Oho

Where I come from you call someone "sir" or "ma'am" for some numbers of years. After which point it's possibly respectful to refer to them by name.

@RoryAlsop plus, it's too late to ask of me not to go all weird on you :P

(about 20 years too late)

@ScottPack In Finland, it's almost universally weird to call someone by something other than their first name only.

Why is calling someone old is offensive anyway?

As if getting older is not a natural thing.

@Simon For about 95% of the older women I met, it is offensive. They like to think that the world still thinks their young, sexy, vibrant, attractive, etc.

5:07 PM

@Adnan Crazy northerners.

@Adnan Yeah, it's pretty much the case here too but I still don't get it.

@Simon I don't find it offensive, just incorrect :P

@Adnan Do Finns have family names?

@ScottPack Yes

Is there a country that doesn't use last names?

5:08 PM

@ScottPack When I fist came here, I used to call the teachers "Sir" and "Mr. Ahvonen" or something like that. The weirdest one for me was calling the CEO where I work by his first name.

@Simon Several.

Or is a family name/last name a different concept?

@Adnan Which one is it in say "Ari-Pekka Nikkola"? I guess same as in most languages, the last one?

(don't ask me how I now thought of that ski jumper LOL)

@TildalWave Ari, or Ari-Pekka. If you really know the person, and they like to be called that, you can call them A.P.

@Simon Much like Iceland some ethnic groups use direct parentage names.

5:11 PM

@TildalWave Oh shit. I thought you meant how to call him.

@Simon That is, your last name would be your father's first name.

@Adnan no, but I get it

@TildalWave Now I get it. Yes, it's the last one.

@ScottPack Oh, that's fucked up.

@Adnan I posses this crazy ability called deduction you know? :P

5:13 PM

@ScottPack @Simon Even now. Many people are called "Jesper Henderson". Notice the "son" in the end. Jesper, son of Hender.

(just an example)

@Simon Nah, just different. It used to be more common. Look at all the *sons or or McSomething

@Adnan Oh, now that's pretty cool.

I totally never noticed that.

@Simon Especially in Nordic countries. That's very common.

@Adnan that's also similar with most slavic countries, but we don't have that (actually, we might be the only ones that don't? not sure)

However, usually those things turn into what we know as a family name.

5:14 PM

In many cases those parentage names have transferred into familial names, but in some cases they're still parentage.

and they get inherited by offspring verbatim.

@ScottPack Indeed.

As in the example you presented about Iceland. Many families still keep that tradition

Many jurisdiction allow it if it's keeping a long history.

we have mostly similar system to germanic one, lots of professions and even animals and such, so "trades and personal trades"

@Adnan Oh, so it's common but not the standard?

sometimes also places

@ScottPack Oh no, in Iceland it is standard. I meant about other places in the world.

5:18 PM

Ah, ok.

@ScottPack I hear a lot of American *son last names. Is there an equivalent (in the US) for daughter?

@Adnan it's allowed here too, basically at birth (or a bit later, whenever) you can give your son/daughter any name you want, or more of them but the birth certificate will of course also list parents ... but it's the easiest to change the "family name" then too, otherwise it's quite a procedure (but not impossible) to do it later

I mean last names with ending indicating "daughter of".

@Adnan It's not a US thing, but rather brought over from wherever.

@ScottPack I understand that. I meant I hear them in American movie, TV, books, etc.

I was wondering if there exists also something for "daughter of"

@TildalWave Interesting. I didn't know you can give your kids an arbitrary last name.

5:23 PM

@Adnan that's because of all dem Norwegians that retire to California :D

Not that I've heard locally. The Nordic equivalent to -son would be -dottir, no?

@ScottPack Exactly

I've never come across anyone with a -dottir name, but lots of -sons.

@Adnan well "the lineage" will be preserved in other fields, but yes you can name your offspring any way you like, even by all the names of Pele if you really wanted to

-dottir sounds like daughter

5:24 PM

@ScottPack (or a variation of it, of course. Depending on the region)

@deed02392 Same goes for tytär

Do you mean it's the daughter of rather than son of

@deed02392 Yup

@Adnan Oh sure, I was generalizing. That's about the only language version o fit that I know.

Never seen a surname like that in the UK

tyrtar?

5:25 PM

daughter in Finnish

@deed02392 Ever been to Wales?

Those crazy Finns

yeah @TildalWave

@TildalWave Unicode doesn't have enough characters to express Welsh names.

@deed02392 don't they have something similar there? (don't ask me how they spell it, I couldn't even pronounce it anyway LOL)

5:26 PM

Not that I noticed

@ScottPack you mean all those 20 variants of L ?

The Welsh have nic for daughter of

@RoryAlsop Hmm.. interesting. My research says "verch".

@RoryAlsop Not nearly long enough. I call shenanigans.

lul

5:29 PM

@ScottPack Apparently, Mc- is used for sons and daughters.

@RoryAlsop isn't that standalone, and not a suffix?

@Adnan you should tell that to McDonald's before they used it to name McCheese then

What's the difference between Mc and Mac anyway? If there is any?

MC is a microphone controller, often seen during music shows and Mac is a Macintosh computer.

So yeah, it's not the same thing at all.

@Simon you want me to MC Hammer your skinny ass?

@TildalWave You like big butts don't you?

who doesn't?

they give you this tremendous sense of value :)))

5:39 PM

I know @ScottPack doesn't.

> Fran: I've got a date. Ben. Divorcee. Very good looking. Nice arse. Which is a first for me.
Bernard: Never had a nice one?
Fran: No, and I know that because I've seen them on the telly. You? Had one?
Bernard: There was one woman, Janine. And I don't know if it was nice, but it was... huge. But there was this tremendous sense of value.

You know you're old when you're quoting a character named Bernard :D

ah cool I just found out you can search for deleted questions by using deleted:1

does that work for 10k-ers too?

@Simon He's Irish, and that's clearly allowed then :P

Man, PHP can really cause fucked up errors if you're not careful. I stored a date in a variable that I treat as a double and it just parsed '2010-05-01' into 2010.00.

@Simon you clearly haven't grown up yet if you're still into PHP

5:47 PM

@TildalWave jelly?!?!?

@Simon What the bleep for? PHP is about as difficult as LEGO. And about as useful to build something worth keeping with it.

copy

Don't underestimate LEGO

There are people who are addicted to Lego and keep them for years.

copy

People have built cool things with it

PHP has serious age concern problems

@copy OK I'll give you that, LEGO > PHP

5:52 PM

And it's sunny again.

WAT LE FUK CANADUH

@Simon I don't like generous posteriors or my value ratio is low?

@ScottPack Generous posteriors.

Do you guys get a message saying "server too busy" when you browse this: php.net/date ?

You may want to open this in an incognito tab, I'm sure you don't want php.net in your browsing history.

@Simon yup

@Simon I like well shaped and proportioned posteriors.

@ScottPack Can't blame ya.

6:28 PM

Coding for a few months in VB has ruined me for life. I often forget semicolons now.

@Simon classic VB or VB.NET

@RоryMcCune .NET

And some in Excel sheets, would that be classic VB?

@Simon was going to say, for a second I thought you'd gone back in time, or started working for a corporate

haha

@Simon VBA, essentially that's classic VB

6:36 PM

I see.

@Simon Microsoft have been kind of deprecating it for aaages, but don't seem keen to provide a replacement

It sucks so that's fine.

It reminds me that my introduction to programming was in RPG (AS/400)

I'm too young for that shit.

2

6:53 PM

Apart from Pascal, VBA was probably my programming language of choice when I got started

used to support accountants who loved their macros

hey @AviD in news that may be of interest to you MS are supporting 2FA on Office365/Azure accounts. Seems to work reasonably well so far..

Don't you have to pay monthly for Office365 or something like that?

@Simon yeah for 24x7 it's not as cheap as a VPS, but for either short-lived stuff or if you need the higher security/auditability that it has over most VPS providers it can be worth it..

Blog - Stack Exchange: Podcast #55 – Don’t Call It A Comeback

7:41 PM

Interesting.

Stack Exchange

8:00 PM

Abby T. Miller on February 24, 2014

Welcome to Stack Exchange Podcast #55, recorded on Friday Thursday the 13th with your hosts Joel Spolsky, David Fullerton, and Jay Hanlon! Today’s episode is brought to you by the city of Sochi, Russia.

It’s been a long time since we last recorded, so we have a lot to talk about, and we’re going to skip most of it. First we’re going to talk about all our brand new sites, so Joel learn about them for the first time. Pets is a site for (you guessed it) pet owners to wonder why their cats like to watch them making the bed. Also, we already talked about this site. Moving on …

DON'T CALL IT A COMEBACK, UNDERSTOOD?