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12:04 AM
Only 3, yup. I expected 2 more of the regulars there.
Nom nom nom
 
me - not regular
 
@AviD I'm his test case, you mean?
 
@RoryAlsop of course!
 
Heh, I've been worse
 
and that is exactly why.
 
12:09 AM
@RoryAlsop damning with, er, false praise?
 
12:36 AM
@RoryAlsop Cute :p
 
 
6 hours later…
6:18 AM
I voted for Rory, have you?
 
Adi
Hmm.. I'm having a very interesting crypto problem.
Device A is capable of doing RSA_Encrypt() but not RSA_Decrypt() (also capable of doing AES_Encrypt() and AES_Decrypt())
While device B is capable of doing full crypto stuff (encrypt/decrypt with any algorithm)
So the restriction here is that A cannot do an RSA_Decrypt()
With the assumption that B has A's public key pinned in the provisioning process, can A and B establish a secure communication channel?
@Thomas @Codes Any thoughts?
My guess is yes. A can generate an AES key and use RSA_Encrpyt() to encrypt it and send it to B
Ugghhh.. Now that I wrote it down, I see the error in my logic. To encrypt, A needs to know B's public key. Since A cannot verify B's public key, this is vulnerable to MiTM.
 
7:16 AM
@AviD yeah I saw that :(
 
mo'nin @Rоry
 
@RoryAlsop Mornin' hows the east coast today?
 
@RоryMcCune bright, but 8 oktas cloud
Reasonably pleasant day to work from home
 
@RoryAlsop ah we're being dreich and midgie today, so just as well I'm indoors testing
also expecting one of these today
So I can try out an SDR experiment :)
 
interesting :-)
 
7:23 AM
thinking I can use that to pick up the cats collar bleeps
and use it to tell when they've gone off on their travels
according to the vendor the cats collars are around 217MHz so should be in range for that easily
anyway at £8 I won't feel too bad if it doesn't work..
 
@RоryMcCune How are you doing the location tracking? Is it just a sweep of a directional antenna?
 
@RoryAlsop well at the moment yeah if we need to find them that's the score. This I'm thinking would be more of a passive thing where it can tell by strength of signal how far away they are
so it would be static and say "at 4am I lost track of Tora" meaning he'd gone off down the village for a wander
TBH it's just a bit of fun to get used to how SDR works
'cause it sounds like an interesting area, and not one I've done anything with
 
@RоryMcCune Yeah - it is an area I know would be a huge time sink for me
 
@RoryAlsop yeah you can track planes with these things and all sorts. Apparently a dude managed to get direct info. from weather satellites using just one of those cheap dongles and a bit of wire for an antenna!
 
7:50 AM
> Election closes in 12 hours.
GO GO GO!
 
8:06 AM
user image
2
^We should have something like this for the DMZ
 
7 Dirty Words
uhh what is the vulgar use of "basket"??
 
@AviD I couldn't possibly say, it'd get flagged too much
 
wut
 
and I'd probably be kicked of the site for even uttering it
 
so say it and delete it Taylor-style, like I do
 
8:12 AM
alernatively it's such an old reference even I don't know.. you'll need to ask @RoryAlsop :)
 
8:28 AM
@AviD I asked the missus, she reckons it was a euphamism for Bastard
 
8:55 AM
that's.... weak.
also, odd that she would be familiar with all this olde-timey profanity. Did she tend to hang around renfaires?
 
@AviD well this was the 1940's ... although if you look at music hall stuff from that era you might be surprised by how rude it was...
@AviD nah but she's greatly interested in history and 1920's/30's/40's is a period of interest for her
 
here we go! It's got a name, got a logo, got the media buzz... here come the flood of questions!
1
Q: How can common users defend against the StageFright vulnerability?

S.L. BarthI was just informed of the StageFright vulnerability in Android devices. A specially crafted MMS message can gain access to data on the phone; so presumably it's a buffer overflow with subsequent privilege escalation. Details have not yet been disclosed, but the practical question is: how can ...

 
@AviD schoolboy error on my part, I should've posted that yesterday
I am soo tempted to answer that Q with "Get an iPhone or Windows Phone" :)
 
@RоryMcCune hahahah DOOO EEEEET
 
@AviD I put it as a comment
 
9:04 AM
hahaha excellent
aside from a weaker security model - hey bugs happen, that's not so sucky! - this really shows how sucky android is precisely because of their distribution model.
that is probably Android's biggest vulnerability, and it is by design.
 
@AviD yep when you have 2-3 parties involved in patching, at least one of whom has no interest in long term maintenance, this is... bad
needs legislation to sort unfortunately as I doubt the market will fix it..
 
at least, and per device.
you're saying Android should be made illegal?
 
@AviD I was more thinking that vendors should be made responsible for providing security fixes for a published number of years
 
"vendors" is a tricky term there
also that is really a slippery slope, as much as I hate the slippery slope argument
and PLS no comments about @Simon's mom being a slippery slope.
@RоryMcCune as I understand it, in US most devices have their updates controlled (aka blocked) by the telcos - who are not exactly "vendors" of the device
perhaps should be made illegal for telcos to block a device's updates?
 
@AviD yeah telcos + device vendors + google as a troika should be responsble
google are usually reasonably ok
the other two.... not so much
 
9:14 AM
that's worse. on any committee of 3 responsible, at least 2 will be actively blocking getting it done.
 
@AviD yeah thus the need for a law. For telcos the re-certification is a sunk cost so they won't do it unless forced
for handset manu's they won't want to support anything over 18-24 months old, they want you to buy a new device
however the problem is that with slowing processor improvements, there's nothing really wrong with a lot of 2-4 year old devices apart from outdated software
 
9:28 AM
meh. Get an old nokia. With buttons ;p
 
9:46 AM
@JourneymanGeek mmmm - buttons
 
I used to have that relatively recently
(I'm 2 smartphones in. Moto G's a pretty nice one of you want regular updates, stock android and reasonable prices ;p)
On the other hand
The way I used it, 2-3 week battery life off that nokia
 
so I'm testing this appllication, recently I adopted the habbit of asking what type of hashing algorithm they use for hashing passwords to the developers. I just get disapointed each time.
 
Adi
 
@JourneymanGeek We still have a full set of 'cockroach' phones (ie they will survive the apocalypse) and they are our essential travel/adventuring phones. They are rugged, battery life is a few weeks, and they just work everywhere
 
Adi
Somebody created a meme for my baby fallacy!
 
9:49 AM
@Adi yay!
(was it you?)
;-)
 
Adi
@RoryAlsop Unlikely. The dude has been a member there since 2005
 
@RoryAlsop: tho, we're killing off 2G soon so...
 
Adi
I like how people are using it like it's something that existed for ever
 
My next phone will likely be a one plus 2, assuming they arn't sucktastic.
 
Adi
Oh, of only they know it was created here in the DMZ
Someone even came up with an alternative definition!
> "Ergo decedo" is an seldom-used title for a logical fallacy which amounts to substituting a personal insult for a logical response; in particular, telling the other speaker to go away.
Again, thank you @AviD for the naming tip! :D
 
9:58 AM
10 more hours
and the election will close
 
@LucasKauffman that you planning your LLama rampage depending on the result?
 
@RоryMcCune a face eating, nuclear rampage
 
@RoryAlsop with hands
 
of course
 
@RоryMcCune you bet!
 
10:03 AM
@Adi haha that's awesome!
@Adi heh, you're welcome!
@Adi isn't that just ad hominem? well except for the "go away" bit
 
10:23 AM
@RоryMcCune What do you use to track your cats? Because having something like that sounds interesting.
 
@Arperum we use this com-spec.com/thecatlocator . Not the cheapest, but has let us find ours a couple of times that we might have lost 'em otherwise.. battery life is pretty good at one month on a watch battery and range is not bad (~1/4 mile with no obstructions)
the collars are also pretty small which avoids the problems of other ones I've seen which are really too big for cats
 
that seems cool. Does it work on kids too?
 
hahaha I was kidding.... or so I thought
 
from that page "Universal Dog, Pet Child Transmitter"
@AviD IIRC I've seen parents do things like put tracking apps on smartphones for kids...
 
10:26 AM
> It can also be used to locate a lost child in the park, at the beach, shopping mall, or amusement park
 
only downside is the receiver is quite big/obvious so people may wonder what the heck your up to
 
well, I know people who've attached a leash to their child, harness and all.
I prefer to treat kids like people - but I guess I am the weird one.
 
> We can not accept new orders from the following countries: BELGIUM GERMANY MALAYSIA AUSTRALIA NEW ZEALAND
 
@RoryAlsop hehe nice
 
Yup, not an option right now even if I wanted.
 
10:29 AM
@AviD I did that when they were at early toddler stage, saves them falling off pavements into traffic, or off cliffs when we go hiking
 
@Arperum I think they have freq. licensing issues...
 
@AviD Kids are people
Well, mine are
 
@RoryAlsop well yeah, I guess if you take your kids to cliffs it makes sense.
 
I gather some are monsters, but I blame the parents
 
this was like in a shopping mall, or just in the neighborhood.
@RoryAlsop heheh absolutely
well at least in most cases
 
10:31 AM
oooh the Shogster made it?
double nice
 
@AviD the rucksack with leash fitted was useful for early road safety training
@TildalWave I know, pretty cool, eh
 
@RoryAlsop oh now that sounds cool!
 
@RoryAlsop aye it's like getting an off license from the Queen :)
 
I have a logo/badge designed by Shog9 - fame and fortune, here we come!
@AviD If they fall you also get a chance to stop them faceplanting
 
We approve of this Scotch :))
 
10:32 AM
@TildalWave lol
 
@RoryAlsop ... or not
 
@AviD well, I assume you want to? Or not?
:-)
 
well not me, but some parents would stand there laughing
I mean, its not like with teenagers.
then I would definitely be there laughing at them.
hell, I probably shoved them in the first place
kidding, of course.
I would make sure there is a pillow or a cushion on the ground before I knock 'em down.
 
- Well, to be honest, my first response when my kids fall over is laughter. Or it was when they were little - and they'd look up and laugh too. Unless they had a very bad fall. Nowadays, with the stuff they do, all falls are likely to be bad, so I may not laugh as much
I even went so far as to get crash mats to put around the trampolines in the garden - as the stunts are getting quite powerful...
 
oy. I wish my kids would do something -anything - like that.
if my kids fall down, its probably because their legs fell asleep after being on the computer for 8 hours.
@RoryAlsop wow
but yeah, it could be very funny UNLESS they actually get hurt.
I do teach the little ones the line from batman
> "Why do we fall down, Master Bruce?"
".... To learn to pick ourselves up."
does help them absorb the insult from the universe's unfairness in tripping them on that block of air.
 
10:37 AM
@AviD Hamish is onto trying to add a full twist to his double front somersaults - that can go wrong very quickly
 
bloody hell
hope he doesnt get hurt - but if not, that sounds awesome
quite the trick, brings all the girls to the yard
 
11:01 AM
@AviD the question is are they programing and learning or playing games?
 
@AviD I told you the cheerleading club asked him to join, didn't I. They, up until now, have been an all girl club, using the gym after Hamish's acrobatics club, but decided they needed someone powerful to lift and throw them. He came home grinning. I asked him if he was going to join, and his response was effectively "Hell Yeah" :-)
 
@RoryAlsop player
 
@LucasKauffman He says it's like throwing the acro kids around, only these ones are girls, and wear skirts, and are really light...
I know. I'm so proud
 
frustrations frustrations
do'nt mind me
I'm going to smack these devs with a wet fish
 
@LucasKauffman google's having an open shophouse this and next weekend
 
11:15 AM
@JourneymanGeek open shophouse?
 
I'm tempted to drop by, its in my neighbourhood
 
@JourneymanGeek where is it?
what do they sell?
 
@LucasKauffman: no idea
Saw it on facrbook
I think they're just showing off the stuff they do here.
 
@JourneymanGeek inb4:
 
11:19 AM
oh you live close to SGH?
 
Yeah
I can see it from my room ;p
 
11:51 AM
@LucasKauffman being a potato, mostly.
they do on occasion use their brains - and the fact they are naturally intelligent isnt always helpful - but most of the time they are shiftless
@RoryAlsop hahahah takes after his dad
@RoryAlsop ... and soft...
@JourneymanGeek funny that thats on facebook, not Google+
I guess even Google wanted a lot of people to see it
 
watcha' @ColinCassidy you all ready for next week?
 
@RоryMcCune yep, just building my burner laptop, it's shit but it'll run the presentation :)
 
@ColinCassidy that's the main thing... what sort of phone (if any) you taking?
sounds like Android might be a bad choice...
 
my old winphone
 
@ColinCassidy yeah that should be ok..
well in as much as anything is..
 
11:58 AM
@RоryMcCune hahaha omg ya think wall'o'sheep is gonna massattack all androids this year?
 
indeed, hopefully safer than an android :)
 
@AviD well you've gotta expect "fake base station" " number harvest" "rogue MMS"
 
ofc, because BH'ers are too kewl for WP, and too neckbeard for iPhones.
@ColinCassidy good luck!
not as much with the phone, I meant more with your talk.
was looking forward to it (and meeting you!) back when I thought I was going... :-(
its okay - only one more week till I stop whinging about not going. :-(
 
@AviD well, there's always a bunch of "popularity" with the attacks. They aren't necessarily going for deep complex exploits, just those that will quickly embarrass the most folks
 
I have 2 others to help cover my ineptitude, so we should be good.
No cars were harmed in the making of our talk
 
12:00 PM
I wonder if I'm now the DMZ'er who's met the most other DMZ'ers
@ColinCassidy just switches
 
@RoryAlsop yes but I'm sure those doing the sheeping are just as vulnerable.
 
0_0
Burner laptop
(Actually mine would be perfect for that in a year or so...)
 
@RоryMcCune @ColinCassidy oo oo you should have a bit in your talk where you stick one of the switches in the middle of the floor and yell at it "YOU'RE DOOMED!!"
 
the year I went I had my burner all set up then some smegger released an 0-day in dhclient ... the one piece of software that would hit the network before my VPN kicked in..
 
@AviD I shall recommend that :)
 
12:04 PM
so tell me. Why do otherwise-competent technology companies insist on herding independent knowledge workers across a commute just to shove them into a less-productive office? It makes no sense.
the benefits of collaboration are well overridden by loss of time and productivity, not to mention disadvantaged recruiting, even without considering that nowadays you can get almost the entire benefits through other, less artificial means
 
@AviD I see you are now in HR. Welcome...
 
hahaha
nah, just reviewing some "opportunities"
if they need me to commute over an hour each direction every damn day, and the office is not the playboy mansion or covered in fudge (or at least no less productive than my own office), then the "opportunity" gets dismissed immediately, with prejudice.
 
Playboy Mansion...covered in fudge... I see where this is going
 
That's another thing that SEI got right, btw. Awesome offices, that are typically better than the alternative - but only as an option. Everything is set up for remote work.
@RoryAlsop OR
there are other possible improvements. Cubicles or shared open space is NOT one of them.
 
@AviD s/OR/ORLY
 
12:11 PM
lol
 
gotta post this here, it would snowball on space, but @RoryAlsop you might be interested in it... some just won't take yes for an answer LOL space.stackexchange.com/questions/4441/…
 
@TildalWave Ah yes, I have encountered such people :-)
 
@RoryAlsop he's almost religiously convinced that he's right and takes smug pride about experts being wrong or overcomplicating
I must be right because I don't understand what you're saying but I disagree with you :D
 
folks - should this be reopened? Couple of comments suggesting it should, plus some reopen votes:
0
Q: NMAP DNS Resolution

user1688175By default NMAP does reverse DNS resolution for a given IP which responds to the host discovery probes. My question is, what are the benefits of getting the host name when performing a network scan?

 
@RoryAlsop yeah I looked at that too. couldnt figure either way.
 
12:26 PM
@Adi If A cannot do RSA_Decrypt(), then it cannot be said to own a public/private RSA key pair, since it cannot use the private key.
 
@Avid give them a scala book,, tell them to play with it
 
raz
@RoryAlsop I don't think it's security related. Seems like more of a SuperUser/ServerFault question.
 
@LucasKauffman no, I wouldnt do that! I like my kids.
 
@AviD scala is awesome
 
@raz not sure. I'm assuming security benefits...
 
12:27 PM
@AviD ovid
 
@AviD they could be doing PHP, which is the methamphetamine of programing languages
you want your kids to drugs @Avid? You want them to start sniffing the powder of donuts?
 
@LucasKauffman no, and... I already do that... :-$
 
raz
@RoryAlsop I guess I don't see how the benefits or answers will be security related.
 
@AviD Time for an intervenntion where we tell you to go to rehab
 
@raz well a possible answer would be: "no security benefit"...
 
raz
12:29 PM
@AviD Haha, this is true. I didn't think of that.
If it's re-opened I'll make that my answer.
 
just because the asker doesnt know, doesnt mean its not a security question.
 
You look like a security question.
 
interesting uses of targeted ads mysocialsherpa.com/… and thehustle.co/the-linkedin-hack-that-made-me-120000 .. you've got to bet people are using this technique for social engineering...
 
raz
@AviD I've seen more security related questions get migrated than that one.
I honestly have no idea what's on topic on this site anymore.
 
Are you having a meltdown?
 
12:32 PM
@RoryAlsop I'd say yes. I use nmap DNS resolution on tests, so there is a security testing related reason :)
 
raz
No I'm just confused is all.
 
reverse DNS lookups are handy on tests 'cause servers that host multiple sites will commonly not respond to the IP address and only to a valid host name
 
I'M A GENIUS WOOHOO
 
so for the enumeration stage of a test, reverse DNS (as performed by Nmap or others) is a handy technique
 
@raz I didnt say it WAS ontopic, just saying that "No" is a valid answer.
 
12:34 PM
@raz Oooooh, it's @AviD who's confusing you!
That's normal, he's confused himself, just like when he tried to make a synonym of
SEE GUYS I'M A GENIUS AGAAAAIIIIN
 
@Simon BACK TO YOUR CAVE
 
again would indicate you were a genius rather than delusional the first time
 
@RоryMcCune Anything that gets you any information during the enumeration stage of a test is a handy technique I'd say.
 
@TerryChia yep info is, almost always, useful :)
 
So although it is a simple question, with answers easily found, another reopen vote and I'll do it :-)
 
12:40 PM
@RoryAlsop dunno, seems a wee bit too broad, but there's possible simpler answers to the question too... I'd reopen and see what happens :)
 
reopened @RоryMcCune - if you want to move your comment to an answer, that'd be cool
 
just wanted to say ... but please wait so I review it first and get one more reopen review in my quest for the badge :P
 
@TildalWave lol
sorry
 
it's OK :)
you move fast :)))
@RоryMcCune you might wanna post an answer now security.stackexchange.com/questions/94885/…
that pretty much answers it
 
@TildalWave @RoryAlsop done :)
 
12:43 PM
cheers!
 
raz
12:55 PM
Damn so the OnePlus2 starts at $329
 
Adi
@ThomasPornin Yeah, I still haven't found a workable solution for the issue. A and B need to establish a secure channel to for A to send a 128-bit piece of information. A happens to have veeeeery limited processing power that a decrypt operation with RSA-1024 takes ~ 15 seconds, which is impractical for me.
 
I'm still kinda tempted
 
@JourneymanGeek I'll let @Simon's mom know.
 
Adi
@ThomasPornin On the other hand, the way that particular device was designed allows it to do AES very quickly. I just cannot think of a secure way that would also prevent MiTM
 

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