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Susan
Susan
7:17 AM
1
Q: Proverbs: differences between the LXX and the MT

Paul VargasWhat is the origin of the differences in the order of some verses in the book of Proverbs between the LXX and the MT? Here are two examples:1 the verses 30:1—14 are after 24:22 and the verses 30:15—31:9 are after 24:34. Is there any evidence to suggest that the translation of the LXX was based...

septuagint proverbs masoretic-text
My first reaction is to disagree with the VTC as "opinion based" because it seems like there probably is relevant research (or at least expert opinion) that could be brought to bear. But I don't really know much about said research/expertise, so I'm curious others' thoughts.
 
 
1 hour later…
Davïd
Davïd
8:46 AM
@Susan I've registered my "keep open", and will pop an answer in if I can pull some bits together.
 
Susan
Susan
9:05 AM
@Davïd Thanks! If only "vote to leave open" meant anything. sigh Nobody asked me when they made the rules. (Well, it does mean something, just not much.)
 
 
1 hour later…
Davïd
Davïd
10:05 AM
@PaulVargas I'm going to attempt an answer to your question; you'll see that books have been written on this, and I don't have time to do a thorough job. I hope what I come up with will be some use/interest!
 
 
1 hour later…
Davïd
Davïd
11:34 AM
0
A: Proverbs: differences between the LXX and the MT

DavïdThe books of the Septuagint (= LXX, here not the Septuagint "proper", which is limited to the Pentateuch, but the whole of the Jewish scriptures in Greek) were produced by different translators, and the various books exhibit vastly different styles and approaches to the task. LXX-Proverbs is well...

@PaulVargas Done! I meant it to be shorter....
 
 
2 hours later…
Davïd
Davïd
1:24 PM
Hey mods! (If only @♦ worked!) What's the etiquette on posting the same answer in two different SE sites? I'd like to add this Xnty.SE answer to this BH.SE question. Is that a "done thing"?
 
 
2 hours later…
Paul Vargas
Paul Vargas
3:33 PM
@Davïd Thanks for the references that you provided in your answer. — Recently, at the seminar, we saw a overview of the book of Probervios. The teacher mentioned some differences between the Masoretic text and the Septuagint. I wrote a note in my notebook to look for or ask in BH.SE :)
 
 
5 hours later…
Susan
Susan
8:35 PM
@Davïd Well, you do know our names....I think the goal of no @mods is to avoid irritating 17 SO mods with a ping that one of them could handle, but I agree that it would work OK here.
According to this, one should avoid posting identical answers, in part because the questions are rarely exactly identical and the target audience is different.
Here I think the BH question invites some mention of the use of mashiach in the Hebrew bible, a topic not mentioned in the CSE answer that I’m pretty sure you could add a few sentences about without much trouble.
The rest of the answer, and especially your reference, would be a helpful addition to the BH question IMO.
 
Davïd
Davïd
9:16 PM
@Susan Thanks - will give a little ponder, and tailor to BH.SE setting if I proceed.
 
Susan
Susan
Just saw this, for those interested:
43
Hebrew Language

Proposed Q&A site for proposed Q&A site for linguists, teachers and students of the Hebrew Language.

Currently in definition.

 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan And here was me thinking with all the Brain Power at SE's disposal they could filter on the room from which the @ originated! ;) Believe it or not, thought it might avoid irritation, although I might have been caffeine deprived at that moment....
 
Susan
Susan
-27
Q: An @Moderators ping

DynamicRecently, I have found several occasions where I could really use an @Moderators ping that alerts all elected moderators of the site. Do you agree? Would this be nice? Can we make this happen?

feature-request comments chat ping
 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan Now that's odd. I was "following" a Hebrew Language proposal that "died". Can a proposal just get recycled?
@Susan Ha! -27! :) And +28 for the answer with "ping by name in chat". So that's pretty clear.
 
Susan
Susan
@Davïd From here: Deleted proposals can be re-proposed anew by users with renewed energy and, hopefully, better resources to bring it to commitment.
@Davïd seems like it deserves an official status-declined
 
Davïd
Davïd
9:36 PM
@Susan It looks like Wayback Machine has the old proposal, or is there a better way of seeing the defunct one? Seems some of its questions are getting recycled; would be useful to compare.
 
Susan
Susan
@Davïd An official status-declined on this one:
19
Q: Close, rather than delete inactive Area 51 proposals

Charles StewartCurrently, Area 51 proposals that are completely inactive for a period of time are silently deleted, losing all questions and comments from the proposal. I propose that instead Area 51 proposals be closed, so that this information is available, together with the fact of the closing. This inform...

feature-request status-declined area51 vote-to-close
@Davïd But I agree. ;-)
@Davïd Thant link isn't working for me.
 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan Hmmm - odd. It's working for me. If you're curious, you could try grabbing the link above to Area51 that shows the deleted HebLang.SE proposal and popping it into the Wayback Machine search field - that's the July 2014 snapshot that I'm looking at.
 
Susan
Susan
@Davïd Never mind, suddenly it worked.
 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan But not much there, I think. I'm seeing some "question" remnants, but not a lot.
 
Susan
Susan
9:52 PM
@Davïd What is <s> </s> (evidently not supported in comments)?
 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan :) strikethrough - if you put it in a normal answer field you'll see it properly in "preview". I knew it wouldn't "work" ... but felt irascible enough to include it anyway.
 
Susan
Susan
That was a big improvement, by the way, thanks. (From off topic to on!)
 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan If OP likes it. I think it gets us there - good to know you agree.
 
Susan
Susan
@Davïd Ah yes, I have seen people using that from time to time and wished I was able to be so witty.
 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan It's my first time. :)
 
Susan
Susan
9:59 PM
@Davïd I just sent this one over to Judaism.SE. Curious what sort of answers it will get. Although it's not a great time of the week to migrate to there.
 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan It's in a better place. Here it could only get some Genesis 49/Judges 5 reflections (minimal traction, though). Better options certainly at MY.
 
Susan
Susan
@Davïd Using the same text from my clipboard מָּשִׁ֛יחַ (copied from biblegateway), if I paste it into transliterate.com in Chrome I get mshych but in Firefox mashiach both of which copy back to my clipboard as מָּשִׁ֛יחַ. Is that weird?
(Ignoring the SBL field, but those are correspondingly different as well.)
 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan Yes - that is weird! Really weird, actually, as I think about it. I know FF has some more advanced glyph handling features than Chrome (Webkit?) - but not sure how far it goes.
 
Susan
Susan
@Davïd You are able to copy the transliterated fields and paste them as Latin characters?
 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan OK. Still weird. I'm on FF in Mint - copied your Hebrew and got "mshych" for Latin! And I copy/pasted that "transliteration".
(I just contributed three Q's to the HebLang proposal, btw. We'll see if anyone likes them!)
 
Susan
Susan
10:12 PM
@Davïd Same if you start from Hebrew pulled from elsewhere?
@Davïd Darn it, I already used all my UVs!
@Davïd We had discussed previously my troubles with missing vowels in the transliterations in Safari, but I've stayed away from Safari entirely recently, yet...
 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan Ha - I topped up a couple 8/9 UV q's - have a couple votes left. There seems a big gap to the +3 Q's, so will see what starts moving.
@Susan Just tried עָנִי וְאֶבְיוֹן from BibleWorks. I got "ani we'evyon" for "Latin" + ʿānî wĕʾebyôn for SBL (that was copy/pasted).
@Susan Yes, I remember. There's certainly some oddness there. I take it you're on Mac, then.
 
Susan
Susan
@Davïd All correct, yes?
@Davïd yup.
 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan and yup again.
I'm given to understand that Unicode handling isn't high on Apple dev priority list. Not that I know much about it - just anecdotally.
 
Susan
Susan
@Davïd So there's something that my computer did to corrupt the Hebrew מָּשִׁ֛יחַ that caused it to give you a messed up transliteration as well?
@Davïd Unfortunately, I don't know much (read: anything) about it either.
 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan Maybe - it gives me this for SBL : mšyḥ
That's ugly.
 
Susan
Susan
10:19 PM
@Davïd Indeed!
 
Davïd
Davïd
BibleWorks מָשִׁיחַ - = Latin mashiach + SBL māšîaḥ
You seem to have a dagesh in your mem....?
 
Susan
Susan
@Davïd I suppose it would be rude to ping our local Hebrew aficionados directly to tell them to support this proposal...
 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan Why so? Hopefully they'll see it here, but Frank, Joseph, a few others would surely be interested, no?
@Susan Does my "BibleWorks" Hebrew work any better than your BibleGateway Hebrew?
 
Susan
Susan
@Davïd Oh, the dagesh was just my mistake; copied from somewhere with an article (minus the article).
But that shouldn't mess it up as much as it was messed up...
 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan Nope, that's true. How about Mechon Mamre, or scholarly-bibles.com?
 
Susan
Susan
10:25 PM
@Davïd Yes, in both mashiach! But from my clipboard: מָשִׁיחַ
 
Davïd
Davïd
And the encoding at the Westminster Leningrad Codex site should be close to "canonical".
But from my clipboard:... - do you mean, that should be transliteration?
 
Susan
Susan
@Davïd I mean, my eyes see mashiach in the transliterated Latin field, but if I copy and paste it: מָשִׁיחַ
 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan Right - I was thinking that's what you meant. Weird.
 
Susan
Susan
@Davïd Just tell me to get a new computer and move on.
 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan :)) Mine is 7+ years old! Linux Mint keeps it alive. But just now I need to scoot - good to chat! Bye for now.
 
Susan
Susan
10:29 PM
@Davïd g'night!
 
Davïd
Davïd
@Susan Just so! ;)
 

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