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10:00 AM
@abdullah: can you give me formulla or something becoz in ohm's low i know only one thing and that is v=IR
 
@amirhudani That's a correct formula.
 
Amongst other things an Arduino Pro Mini, it is really small, like 35x18 mm :)
 
10:15 AM
but from that formula how can i find max cable length
?
 
you need something like rho = l × something / A
or R = rho × l / A
rho is specific for copper or other material
l is the length
 
@jippie I have a couple of pro minis, but they require a separate USPISP, so I prefer the Nano. Aren't they approx the same size as the nano?
@jippie If you like small, you will love the FemtoDuino. I'm waiting for the next version, to buy a few of them.
 
@AnindoGhosh I actually got a cable with it that has USB on one side and these female single pin thingies on the other end
 
@Bitrex Thanks for that article. None of those ICs seem weird to me, but yeah, they were all useful in their day, and several don't really have rock-solid, and equally easy-to-use equivalents today.
@Bitrex The XR2206 is still available from Maxim for sampling, and is also sold here in our electronics market though at a ridiculous $11 apiece for singles. I've used one in a design not so long ago, and the waveform was so amazingly clean even compared to an Analog Devices DDS!
 
10:26 AM
@jippie Just check if that works with the pro mini. Some of those USB cable things don't, I forget why.
@jippie I just use an USBISPwhatever clone, I have a couple of those.
 
I have several different USB to UART things, basically because the el cheapo ones have don't take the effort to program a unique serial number in them and your PC won't be able to tell the difference between them unless they have a diffent chip
or manufacturer id
 
@jippie Then you're fine. Now get the femtoduino and make some miniature magic.
 
you have an url?
 
femtoduino.com (and of course google.com)
@CamilStaps here is another URL: mods-n-hacks.wonderhowto.com/how-to/…
 
what is this google everybody speaks of?
@AnindoGhosh camil won't get pinged if tab completion doesn't work
@AnindoGhosh it is only about 1cm shorter than the mini I have.
 
10:43 AM
@jippie Who knows, he might enter the chat later. I wasn't hoping to ping him, since I already sent him the chat link on comments.
@jippie Look at area percentages. The Femto is tiny.
 
15×20mm?
the mini is 18×35
 
10:55 AM
@jippie Yup
 
11:07 AM
@AnindoGhosh is there a way in (Arduino) C to loop through given arbitrary values? Like 1 7 6 3 1 7 6 3 ...
 
@jippie Loop through doing what?
 
similar to foreach my $key ( keys %hash ) { } in perl :-p
 
I would just use an array and the loop counter as an index into it
 
like a for loop, but for arbitrary, given values
good point
 
I like this article. Brings back some old memories: homepages.nildram.co.uk/~wylie/ICs/monolith.htm
 
11:09 AM
@AnindoGhosh if a single LED in a7 segment display is called a segment
what do you call the whole of the display when contained in a 4 digit ...
OK digit is the word :)
 
@jippie a digit?
What beer is it? ;-)
 
@AnindoGhosh I should probably just look for a readily library instead of stubbornly trying to program a driver myself.
 
@jippie Driver for what?
 
a four digit 7 segment display
 
Hey @jippie, I need to test whether I can attend a hangout... Could I bother you to do a quick trial run with me please?
 
11:14 AM
sure, join the hangout and I'll fetch my tablet
 
@jippie join which hangout?
 
My browsers (Chrome and IE) cannot view dx.com properly, CSS is not loading. Is it the case with you guys too? @jippie @AnindoGhosh
 
And yes, just use a prebuilt library for a 7-seg.
 
right ...
i thought @kortuk had already put up the link
 
@abdullahkahraman No, I can use dx.com perfectly - I just received a delivery from there and went in and checked for new stuff.
 
11:15 AM
whoops
no
 
@jippie nahh, I'm suggesting we just start a test hang-out to see if my tablet can do what is needed.
 
Since I will be away from the house at the hang-out time.
 
@jippie So you cannot view it properly?
 
no have to create a new one
don't knwo how
 
11:18 AM
hi guys
new to this place
 
@jippie, paging you for a hangout
 
you are?
 
@jippie thats what it said
 
@abdullahkahraman the red tee-shirt is me
 
11:25 AM
changing access points ...
 
@AnindoGhosh Really? lol
@jippie Yeah, your connection was lousy
@jippie @AnindoGhosh Sorry guys I have no camera or mic
@jippie @AnindoGhosh I can hear both of you guys
But there are some serious feedback issues lol
@AnindoGhosh Your connection is very good
@AnindoGhosh I cannot unmute!
 
hmmmz
 
hahahha!
 
the only one who can unmute is myself
i know!
and I am refusing to unmute
 
11:31 AM
until @abdullahkahraman says sorry
@AnindoGhosh
 
ROTFL
 
@jippie Ah come on, @AnindoGhosh called me a youngster, he has to say sorry
@AnindoGhosh I don't have a camera nor a mic.
hahha
@AnindoGhosh I would not
@jippie I cannot hear you!
 
@jippie is asleep?
 
No, he's delaying microseconds
 
11:34 AM
lol
@jippie Why I cannot hear you?
 
if you don't own a mic or cam, do you own a speaker/amplifier?
 
@AnindoGhosh I am trying to plug in a mic. I have found
@AnindoGhosh No, I am going to buy in the middle of May
 
I can hear you @abdullahkahraman
Cannot hear @jippie any more
 
@AnindoGhosh Oh, finally.. How is the voice level?
 
11:50 AM
@AnindoGhosh my skype id is: abdullahkahraman.
 
@abdullahkahraman Start skype and connec to me (Anindo Ghosh. Mumbai)
@jippie Typing works. I'm dropping off the hangout now
This was interesting. If I can get the tablet to work with my bluetooth headset, then hangout / skype becomes easy with the tablet even when I'm out of home.
 
:)
 
12:32 PM
Turns out this drill I bought and took apart for the battery and motor has an AC charger but it's a NiCd battery
I confirmed it with a meter, the charger outputs 12VAC @ 200 mAh
And it appears the AC charger was originally connected directly to the DC battery
 
@KevinMark Diode somewhere in the voltage path.
 
@AnindoGhosh Could a use a 1A rectifier diode in place of it?
the charger reports 200 mAh
 
@KevinMark no idea, too little data for a meaningful answer :-)
 
@AnindoGhosh Gotcha. Essentially it's an AC output charger with a DC input battery. A diode would be how I achieve this DC conversion?
 
Ideally a diode and capacitor at the least, or a bridge rectifier and a capacitor for less ripple
 
12:46 PM
Just going to MacGyver this thing together so that'll have to do
 
12:57 PM
I'm trying to find the datasheet for a 4 digit 7 segment display mt03641br, but no luck so far. Hints/tips anyone?
 
@jippie where did you get this part?
 
china
 
every part is from china
 
i think i found a diagram for it ... checking now
 
i think this is the most obscure part I have ever heard of
@AnindoGhosh have you ever ordered something from rs components
 
1:05 PM
@Rick_2047 Yes.
@Rick_2047 Really bad idea for personal / hobby use. They have a huge mark-up, then a huge customs fee then a huge shipping fee and then they take a couple of weeks to deliver. In that time, I can get the same thing cheaper from ebay.com
 
so ebay.com it is
i wish there was something local like digikey
getting a single chip is very hard even through ebay
 
@Rick_2047 What part are you looking for? Some things are cheaper on dx.com and dx shipping is slightly faster.
 
naah, i checked dx.com
@AnindoGhosh i am looking for a enc28j60
the ethernet chip
trying to learn how to add ethernet to my projects
 
$3 for the bare chip on ebay
 
@AnindoGhosh thanks for pointing me in the right direction with the diode bridge!
I slapped one together and the poorly regulated power supply dropped from 17V to 13V while charging
 
1:12 PM
@KevinMark I'm somewhat skeptical about it working primarily because there must have been something in place earlier.
 
@AnindoGhosh It's possible there might have been and I looked over it :\
 
@Rick_2047 My suggestion is to start with a pre-built module with that chip - they are not much more expensive than the bare chip. See the schematic, see it working, then build your own into your circuit
 
1:25 PM
@AnindoGhosh yeah, but the chip is like 300bucks, but cannot find a breakout module for it
found one
on ebay, only 4$, now to setup my paypal account
 
@Rick_2047 Why buy a $3 chip and a $4 breakout when you can get a $5 prebuilt module?
 
what do do you mean by a prebuilt module?
@AnindoGhosh i think I will get this ebay.com/itm/…
 
1:46 PM
yay hangout
 
:)
hangout
 
solved the type number issue
 
@jippie where did you get the datasheet?
 
I didn't
I'm just good
 
@jippie that was a good line
consider it borrowed
 
1:58 PM
@Rick_2047 just add a (TM)
 
crap, the hangout starts in 30 seconds, and I have not even done my hair
 
Link please @Kortuk
 
still getting setup, give me 2 minutes
 
Am on phone so cannot switch to the schedule page
 
shit, i lost my only hair brush
 
2:03 PM
I don't know if this will work for me as my connection is through cellular,
 
I think selecting that it can be broadcast to youtube freaks people out, and we dont have so many people we need it, so I am going to just leave it without
 
wait for me
 
guys
what event is starting in 14 mins?
 
something we are trying out a few times, an EE.SE hangout
 
thank you
 
I'll be trying my 8 digit display in the mean while
 
2:33 PM
@NarekBabajanyan thanks for dropping by
 
heh, thanks and sorry for not staying long
btw, question
I thought SE chat was only for experience users
with high rep
 
@NarekBabajanyan meh? I think you need 10 or 20 rep to use it, to stop spam bots from easily joining.
 
oh wait I have 33? I wdoner where from :D
 
@NarekBabajanyan it sums your site rep from all sites.
 
hmm, but still surprising, I haven't been an active user
last time i checked I had 21 as far as I remember
 
2:36 PM
@NarekBabajanyan you have 20 rep on Stack Overflow and 10 on game dev
 
you know it is time to dive into your profile when others know it better than you
 
This was fun. Good actually *seeing * you folks!
Bye now.
 
@AnindoGhosh as expected, I am a fat loud american.
picture from hangout.
Your welcome
 
oh my so many effects :D
looks really cool, but there is a face in your effects somewhere
:)
 
2:59 PM
and for laughs
@MarkBooth allo.
@Manishearth you have been afk the whole time. ><
 
@Kortuk eh, can't join hangout, and I didn't think there would be much discussion here
 
@Manishearth :(
 
ah well :)
You guys may want to have normal chat sessions. Phys.SE does it biweekly, and usually there's a lot of fun conversation
Of course, we do this because the room is generally quiet otherwise
 
and it is done
@Manishearth yes, I see you guys have a chatroom, ours stays active pretty consistently without.
@Manishearth but I thought some video chat would be a fun time to show off projects and a way to discuss some SE policy stuff face to face where people will not be as bothered.
@W5VO Did we make the hangout too early for you?
 
3:07 PM
@Manishearth when we get more in the groove of hangouts it might make more sense to broadcast them to have a record, but otherwise, was fun today.
I have never really seen someone just walking around mumbai and it was fun to see @AnindoGhosh doing that.
 
and @Rick_2047 and @jippie have joined more then once and are fun to chat with.
 
@Kortuk /me is fun?
 
@jippie you are more shy then everyone else, but you still make me laugh.
I enjoy that although you are quite your face is very descriptive.
@jippie With time and a fat american harassing you we can teach you to be loud and annoying, like an american!
I wanted to spend last night goofing off, I was stuck at work for 13 hours.
 
@Kortuk thanks for the vid link
 
3:19 PM
@NarekBabajanyan it is my old senior design professor. He is big in education now, I like his videos.
One of those is mine from when I was his TA, the last one I linked, makes me giggle to listen to it.
 
heh
well i am a noob in radio stuff
so i guess this can educate me how it works after all
 
3:54 PM
Can somebody fit all of Maxwell's equations and electromagnetics into an answer?
1
Q: Coaxial cable theory

subzWell i was learning transmission but i got a bit confused when i came to coaxial cables transmission at radio frequency. What i am lost is how the waves are propagating in the cable, i was thinking that ac current just flows through the conductor just like a normal 2 wire system to the antenna ....

 
If anyone's Arduino-friendly and hasn't yet, please go commit to the Arduino proposal. It's at the last stretch of required commits: area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/49538/arduino
 
4:11 PM
@NarekBabajanyan that was very theoretical stuff, and although I like it, you really only need that to start a foundation, that is a very far way from real radio applicability.
:) it is the pinned message in here.
 
@Kortuk Agreed. I just wanted to point out it's up to 78%, last leg.
 
@AnindoGhosh was at 66% this morning, so that is doing pretty well in one day.
 
@Kortuk Isn't it still morning?
 
@AnindoGhosh 11 am, yeah, but kinda reaching midday now
 
@Kortuk OK, just checking :-)
 
4:16 PM
@AnindoGhosh sorry, I see the point, I think it was 66% 2 hours ago.
I did not realize only 2 hours had passed, woops.
Time drags on when you are driving around town.
 
@Kortuk Time passes fast when you're walking around Mumbai with a tablet and a bunch of people on videochat ;-)
 
@AnindoGhosh haha. It was fun to hear all the noises. You just made me long for living in a real city again.
I live in OK right now, which I hate, and one day I will live in a city like NYC or Seattle if I am still in the US. Many other options if I am lucky enough to go abroad.
 
@Kortuk Mumbai is probably nothing like your past experience of real cities. There's one book I would recommend: Maximum City. It gives a flavor of the Mumbai I know.
 
@AnindoGhosh yeah, the denser the city the more I like it, NYC is my favorite in the US, but I will admit I really loved Seattle. I will visit India at some point, since my company is building a site in chennai my chances go up greatly of getting someone else to foot the plane bill, although chennai was not my target of any trip. Bangalore and Mumbai are.
 
@Kortuk You know, a year ago if I had been sitting in a superstore parking lot running a vidconf with multiple people, via a mobile phone data link over wifi, I would have probably been arrested for black magic. And yet, none of the technology I was using is less than a couple of years old, even in my hands.
 
4:21 PM
@AnindoGhosh :)
technology is pretty cool
 
Yet today I noticed that people walking by noted that I was on a vidconf and took it in stride - evidently many others do it these days.
 
You missed the last meetup where you missed out on me trying to get my arduino to work.
@AnindoGhosh Yeah, I saw many faces look over your shoulder, see the conference and lose interest!
 
@Kortuk Simple solution to that - Press CTL-ALT-DEL.
Or is that some other system I'm thinking of
 
Dude, he is in a video conference with people all over the world, that is magic!
 
@Kortuk Absolutely. It's routine.
 
4:23 PM
When I was at work playing with our positioning system and learning how they plan treatments and all of these systems just work together perfectly it blows my mind!
That is just a beautiful connection of many different technologies.
 
@Kortuk Synergy. The words I like are Synergy and Multidisciplinary Engineering.
Everything of tomorrow will be a subset of everything else... and yet a superset too.
 
@AnindoGhosh agree :)
 
I can watch this display for hours ...
 
@jippie :)
 
@jippie "Shiny things"
 
4:37 PM
Think I will make a small controller that converts the 32bit input data to the multiplexed display
the Arduino manages 49.8 kHz multiplexing frequency
 
5:06 PM
what is TEM in a TEM waveguide @Kortuk? I know what a waveguide is.
 
Hiya all
Did I miss The Hangout (TM)?
@AnindoGhosh: Was it this scope: instructables.com/id/Girino-Fast-Arduino-Oscilloscope ?
 
5:28 PM
what are dependent or controlled sources?
 
@AnujKaithwas They don't exist! :)
 
6:05 PM
@AnujKaithwas the model of a transistor or opamp uses controlled sources.
basically the output voltage or output current is controlled by a completely separated voltage or current.
in contrast to a static voltage or current of a regular source.
for example when you simplify the model for a BJT, you get a formula like Ic = Ib * hFE.
@AnujKaithwas Ic is a controlled current source in that case (but far from ideal).
 
@jippie thank u!:)
 
6:53 PM
@angelatlarge Yes, that's the guy - but his own blog has much more detail.
 
@AnindoGhosh Cool, thanks. the problem is that he is solving the opposite problem from me: he needs to load stuff fast. I need to output stuff fast. But it is a useful reference.
 
how fast is fast?
and how much of it :)
 
@jippie 360 bytes in 745 uS
 
in series?
 
@jippie Either way. But the issue is that I have to assemble the bits to be sent with bit twiddling, and that is taking much time.
 
6:59 PM
360×8/745e= 3.8Mb/s
do you need stop/start bits? do you need a clock/strobe?
 
@jippie I need a clock: it's an SPI-like protocol: I am loading into TLC5940s. No start/stop, just a clock, and a latch: like the 74HC595 shift register.
 
m
 
@jippie I was bitbanging 24 of them in parallel, but now I am thinking of trying to do this serially. At least this way I can twiddle the bits while the hardware pushes them out for me.
 
on an Arduino if I remember correctly?
 
@jippie Oh, god no. Pure AVR
 
7:03 PM
same
 
@jippie Right now it is ATmega328, but will probably use ATmega644 eventually
@jippie Yes, in many ways.
 
@angelatlarge that will make little differentce in speed, will it?
 
@jippie Stilly trying to solve this: electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/63921/… :)
 
at almost 4Mb/s you have very little to play with ar 20MHz max.
 
@jippie Well, here's what I am thinking: for bitbanging, for each bit I have to set a bit in a register (a clock cycle), and then for every six bits (I have 6 drivers in parallel) I need to lower/raise a clock line. Whereas using SPI, I need much less bit twiddling, and I can do stuff while the AVR pushes the bits out.
@jippie Yeah, 20Mhz max is a problem.
 
7:08 PM
how many SPI interfaces do you have available?
let my put my scope on my SPI interface on my desk, see if I can find the max bitrate (at 16MHz
I think it tops at 8Mb/s without overhead for loading new data
 
@jippie If you don't use the USART for SPI, I think there is only one.
@jippie I thought that max SPI rate is 2 clocks/bit according to the datasheet (for send, not receive)
"This means that the minimum SCK period will be two CPU
clock periods" (ATmega164... datasheet page 172)
@jippie Though presumably writing to SPDR takes some time.
 
at 16MHz I estimate my bitrate to peak at 2.5Mb/s
@angelatlarge correct, that is the setting I use, but my bits appear .4us wide
 
@jippie Hmmm.. that would be bad. Can I see your code?
@jippie Though I really appreciate you bringing up this issue: I should think about this and test it like you suggest before assuming that 2 clocks is all there is to SPI
 
no I lied, there are bits approx. .1us wide
so that would be the 8Mb/s
for half clock
I see huge oerhead, but that is probably due to the Arduino libraries and loops and my processing
 
@jippie It is supposed to be 0.125uS, so that's good!
@jippie No, I think that's what's expected, 0.125uS bits.
 
7:16 PM
yes that is what I expect at clk/2
 
@jippie Are you loading the same immediate value?
@jippie It will be slower if you push out an array of data.. probably need another 5-10 clocks/byte, but that's fine.
 
but you'll have 'huge' overhead, either polling for a flag or waiting for an interrupt. An interrupt will cost you at least 8 ticks.
 
@jippie No, can't use interrupts here. I think the trick is to do other things while it is sending.
 
can't you offload to a second processor?
or use a faster thing
 
@jippie As in: load SPDR, then you update the data pointer, then you load the data into a register, THEN you wait for send to complete (polling) and then you load SPDR and repeat.
 
7:20 PM
wait, I closed the 328 datasheet about half an hour ago ...
 
@jippie SPDR is the SPI data register. Writing to it starts the SPI send
 
well ... if you want to write assembly ..
you could of course play it really dirty, because you know the number of clock cycles until you need to feed the next byte ;o)
 
@jippie What I would do is write C, then take the disassembled code and teak it. Cheating!
@jippie Oh! NICE!
@jippie +10!
@jippie Probably faster than polling. Good idea!
 
polling requires a jump, which breaks I would expect to break the pipeline
BRNE k Branch if Not Equal if (Z = 0) then PC ← PC + k + 1 None 1/2
1 or 2 clocks
 
@jippie Yeah, I think you are right. I don't quite get how to analyze the timing of jumps on AVR
@jippie Oh is that what 1/2 means? I thought 1/2 meant 1/2 a clock. Silly me.
@jippie Thanks for clearing that up.
 
7:25 PM
no 1 clock cycle if you don't jump, 2 clocks if you jump
Houw would you explain:
SBIS P ,b Skip if Bit in I/O Register is Set if (P(b)=1) PC ← PC + 2 or 3 None 1/2/3
(not sure if I understand it myself btw).
 
@jippie Does "skip" mean "jump to"?
 
no
yes
no
:)
 
if the bit is set then the next instruction is skipped
well
 
@jippie Why three timings? There are only 2 conditions (they are not using ternary bits.. yet)
 
7:29 PM
not sure, probably because the next instruction can be either one or two bytes in size.
and it has to read the first byte to know if it has to skip an extra one
not entirely sure though.
but it does mess with the pipeline
 
@jippie I thought all instructions were the same size on AVR, no?
-1
Q: Best JTAG adapter for ARM Cortex A8?

fred bassetI am bringing up a new board soon based on TI's AM335x cortex A8 CPU. Development environment is Ubuntu 12.04 running in a VM. Can anyone suggest a good reliable JTAG adapter what will work with this chip and support the usual software such as GDB, OpenOCD etc?

That question doesn't seem so bad. I'd like to know the answer.
 
no, eg. a direct load from sram takes a one byte 'argument'
so does store indirect with pre/post inc/dec
 
@jippie What's the range? 1/2/3 bytes? Or only up to 2?
 
1 tick for the instruction itself
1 or 2 ticks for the instruction being skipped
 
@jippie No sorry what's the instruction size range?
 
7:33 PM
of course if it doesn't skip the next instruction the skip will take a single clock, but the non-skipped instruction will take the other clocks :)
don't know by hart
I am aware of 1 and 2 byte instructions
Not sure if you can make up for the speed you loose by going singe bit serial SPI rather than going 8bit wide parallel (or multiple).
you have to make sure you need as little processing as possible.
SRAM is faster than FLASH to read data from ...
 
7:54 PM
@jippie I know. But there is very little SRAM, unfortunately.
 
@jippie +1 on that. THe advantage of serial processing is that less bit twiddling will be necessary. The only big problem is that AVR SPI only supports 8-bit data. TO use TLC5920 serially, you need 12-bit sends, so you have to shuffle nibbles around
@jippie ???
 
is that a scam?
 
@angelatlarge Question for you: Why would you not pre-form your grayscale tables and use those, instead of twiddling them on the fly?
 

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