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3:03 AM
@jrista did you get my email the other day?
 
 
1 hour later…
4:18 AM
hmm, actually, you just reminded me to check it...I haven't even opened my email in days.
 
@jrista lol
 
heh, been spending most of my time trying to sleep and get useful rest
 
well thats a good thing
 
when did you send it?
 
resent just now
 
4:28 AM
yeah, I probably can
heh, just don't let him know it was me who got it for you
 
lol okay
 
it is kind of obvious, so if he asks... ;)
 
lol indeed
 
4:43 AM
@jrista can you just close this ? rather than jump through some voting hoops?
0
Q: Why is the ShutterStock.com website down?

Mr. MacGyverDoes anyone know what happened to ShutterStock.com website? I was just on the site this weekend, but every day this week it has been down. Does anyone know why their website is not working anymore? I thought I had the incorrect URL, but I guess not.

good deal lol
looks like you'd already seen it
 
lol, done
what a weird question for this site
 
seriously
 
such a bummer about that D70 sensor
 
i know!
 
heh, I would like do do some IR stuff, but I would probably not convert my 450D until I have at least two other cameras
that way I could still have a backup, like a 7D, in case something happens to the 5D
 
4:47 AM
ya, main, backup, throw-away
 
yeah
3
Q: What are quick, temporary solutions for displaying a physical portfolio?

Laura ΨSaw a question on Twitter that got me thinking...this is probably a problem that other photographers run into. If I have a portfolio meeting and don't want to show the usual portfolio full of prints covered in gross, plastic sleeves, what alternatives do I have? The goal is to put new prints int...

Perfect situation for one of those fancy flexible, newspaper-sized AMOLED screens from Samsung ;)
 
indeed
 
too bad they are only available in asia
 
so far ;)
 
looks like the community bot has been bumping threads lately
 
4:51 AM
wow, there's a burger place in memphis that hasn't changed their oil since 1912....
thats GROSS
 
er...
??
4
Q: Is Canon 7d or 60d better for portrait taking?

AndreaI am upgrading from a Canon rebel that I've owned and worked with for awhile now, what are the advantages/disadvantages of a 60d vs a 7d? I am mainly interested in portraits (and some candids of my kids). I take portraits in my home in a studio setting and have the lights, backdrops, etc, but am...

Wouldn't any full-frame camera be FAR better for taking portraits?
@rfusca is that even legal?
wouldn't the health department be all over them for that?
 
sure but a 5d is like 700-900 more than a 7D
 
yeah...true
but still...WAY better for portraits ;P
 
that's non trivial for most of us
indeed
 
is there a link to that burger place article?
or is that some TV thing
 
4:53 AM
but do you take a 5D with a kit lens or a 60D/7D with a kick ass lens
they 'strain' the oil
its their secret
 
lol
well
thank god I'm a vegetarian now
I'll never even have to entertain the thought it eating there :P
 
lol
ya, its a deep fried burger in 100 year old grease
lol
i mean, that sounds like a joke
 
yeah
man, so many of the guys I work with just die for deep fried stuff
deep fried ANYTHING
my old boss came back from some business trip where there was an event during the evening
 
i have a weakness for french fries
 
they deep fried everything from various peppers, to ice cream, to crispy cream doughnuts, to even worms and other critters...and he ate at least one of EVERY fried item
I wanted to hurl just by listening to him
I like french fries too
 
4:58 AM
thats...gross
 
boy, every time I go out to eat with my coworker they get french fries just to goad me :P
yeah, its truly gross
I think they said there were even deep fried frogs...that was when I really wanted to leave the conversation
maybe it was just frog legs
either way
 
i couldn't do vegatarian....i could be the poster child for meat eaters lol
 
disgusting
@rfusca well...its easier than you might think
especially when you start dropping weight like a stone and begin to physically feel WORLDS better
 
@jrista its easier if you have the desire to do it. I would find it very, very difficult
 
I kind of lamented the loss of steak and chicken...which I had almost every day
but that "loss" quickly disappeared
@rfusca yes...true
@rfusca I did too...until I read those books
 
5:01 AM
thats why i won't read them lol
ignorance is my bliss here ;)
(literally)
 
If you want to change the direction of your health, and want to want to, I would read just two books: "Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease" by Dr. Esselstyn, and The China Study
lol
well...remember them, for the day you start having angina or after your first heart attach or the day you get diagnosed with diabetes ;P
 
perhaps, but there's lots of meat eaters who don't have those issues
 
and if you really like the taste of meat
um...
 
(not saying that meat doesn't contribute to them)
 
@rfusca or don't know they do, until it happens, which is about half or so of all cases of heart attacks alone
and heart disease alone kills 500,000 people a year...a lot of them silently
anyway
morningstar...they have the most awesome "transition" food :D
veggie-only hamburger patties, chicken patties, nuggets, and various other meat-tasting and shaped products that REALLY do taste like the real thing
but are all veggie tasty goodness
 
5:04 AM
and cost an arm and leg
 
nah, they are pretty cheap
there are similar things from "better" brands that cost a LOT more
the morningstar stuff is pretty reasonable
not much more than those cheap (but not rock-bottom cheap) microwave dinners so many people eat
anyway, turning off the pressure now ;)
 
from their site:
MorningStar Farms® Grillers Prime® Veggie BurgersIf it's prime, steakhouse flavor you crave, then get this burger on your plate pronto. It's savory, a little smoky, and best grilled and served on a bun, topped with whatever makes your mouth water.
• 170 calories
• 17g protein
• 39% less fat*
*Morningstar Farms® Grillers Prime® Veggie Burgers (71g) contain 9g fat per serving, compared with regular ground beef
a normal burger patty contains 8g of fat
...
22g protein
and 160 calories
so....
ya
 
hmm
as far as I can remember, most burger patties have 10-12 grams of fat, for the lower fat stuff
and the tasty ones have a lot more fat than tha
but fat really isn't the issue
the issue is animal product or not
and calories are also not the problem
on average, vegetarians consume quite a bit more calories, but plant-food calories don't get stored
the body burns them off, which is where that feeling of "extra" energy comes from
 
whats the particular substance thats the problem
 
animal protein, any amount of dietary cholesterol intake, and saturated fats
thats really THE problem
its amazing when you read about the scientific studies that have been done
animal protein, but not plant protein, is literally like a western-disease switch
take 16-20% of animal protein in your diet, and western disease is turned on (most studies like that have been done on cancers...and cancer LITERALLY start growing when a high animal protein diet is started, and slows to a near stop when animal protein is reduced to 5% or less, and never even progresses in the first place on a whole plant foods, low oil diet)
They do not yet know specifically what is different about animal protein that makes it do that, or why plant protein does not.
 
5:13 AM
hmmm
 
The only solidly correlated factors are the percentage of animal protein taken in, combined with any amount of dietary cholesterol, and anything more than minimal saturated fat intake, are strong factors for the progression of western disease.
I am still kind of having a hard time giving up nuts and avocado, but reading Dr. Esselstyn's book, the amount of saturated fat in them is not good either...they can be eaten in considerable moderation, but not as a normal dietary staple.
I really like nuts, and love guac for chip dip
 
so wait...its animal protein, saturated fat, and cholesterol
 
yeah
 
so what abou lean animal meats then?
 
cholesterol is a pretty significant factor
no animal meat...at all, period
the protein is like a disease growth factor
its like food for artery blockage and cancer and whatever makes autoimmune disorders be disorders
they don't know the specific chemical processes of why yet, there are just really strong correlations between meat in the diet and the progression (quite frequently the silent, unknown progression in outwardly superbly healthy people) of western disease (the kinds of disease people in america, much of europe, and the more "westernized" parts of china/japan encounter...heart disease, diabetes, obesity, autism, alzheimers, auto-immune disorders, etc.)
The china study originally started to demonstrate that more meat in the diets of poorer, third-world populations who normally ate a primarily plant-based diet would benefit and become healthier.
 
5:18 AM
correlation <> causation ...could be a 'hidden' factor that they're not aware of that they're unwillingly biasing towards...thats basic stat
(not that i'm saying they're wrong)
 
The result of that study was exactly the opposite. Third-world poor populations don't die from the same diseases we do, they die from malnutrition due to too little food in general, which leads to parasitic infestations and dangerous infections.
Oh, yeah, I know. The China Study is very scientific, and he makes it very clear that they are talking about correlation and association, not causation.
However, strong correlations are a significant positive factor in any scientific study.
 
indeed
but usually they drive a theory of cause...somebody has a theory, and they use stat to lend credence to it
 
And I would be right there with you, if it were not for the fact that the China Study alone has been ongoing and still going for over 30 years...its not some new study, they have been gathering and correlating data from tens of thousands (possibly more) people over decades.
In addition, they have done dozens of lab studies to either strengthen or falsify their hypotheses, and they keep getting positively correlated results.
 
like i said, i'm not debating whether its right or wrong, just that the stat is funky
 
funky how?
realize, I'm generalizing and reducing several hundred pages of multiple books into about 20 lines of chat ;P
 
5:23 AM
that they're drawing conclusions from the stat without a theory to provide a structure for the stats.
 
I'm being excessively rough here
 
oh sure lol
 
well, they had a theory
 
(i'm also reading some stuff online right now about the China study)
 
and in an effort to prove that theory
they discovered something else
and in light of the evidence at hand
they followed it
thats pretty much the scientific method as I know it
hypothesize, test, observe, analyze, and rehypothesize
just because you start out with one hypothesis doesn't mean its correct, and in light of counter evidence to your hypothesis, it is only responsible to reevaluate and rehypothesise base on the outcome of prior test data
thats effectively what the china study did
the china study eventually intersected with other studies, one being done by Caldwell B. Esselstyne
another by Dr. Dean Ornish
same basic subject...curing heart disease via diet
a vegetarian diet
over the last decade, the study has factored in results from numerous other scientific studies done in our own country by other doctors for things like cancer, obesity, etc., as well as studies done in other countries
 
5:27 AM
But are they only operating on the level of "meat is bad" or "meat is good" and not focusing on why? Or is that part of what you had to abbreviate?
 
the body of evidence for it now is immense, and more than I could regurgitate in a chat
@Sean oh, they are certainly focusing on why
but we have only recently gained the microbiological knowledge and technical capability to explore at that level
there is extremely high positive correlation between the consumption of meat and the accelerating rate of incidents of western disease
 
so basically...no
 
there is also an extremely high positive correlation between the consumption of a whole-foods plant based diet and the reduction and eventual total remission of present western disease in patients, as well as the prevention of western diseases from ever becoming present in patients who already are healthy
certainly not "proof"
 
Has the consumption of meat in the west been tending to increase lately, or...?
 
yes
particularly in america, we eat more meat than ever recorded in history from a general diet standpopint
 
5:30 AM
interesting
 
I think that takes up a whole rather large chapter in one of the books
probably the china study
 
right but so much other stuff changes...food prep methods, cooking oils used, a billion other factors in switching
 
well
I can't explain all the details
thats what the books are for
 
and probably correlates with cell phone usage, the rise of the internet...etc
 
the studies are extensive, and they cover partial dietary changes...people who chose to keep eating meat but also eat more plant foods. There are actual scientific studies with control groups, comparing those who keep eating a western diet, those who partially eat a plant foods diet, and those who completely move to a plant foods diet
 
5:31 AM
This is the 'buy the book' part of the conversation, I suppose ;D
 
i understand i do, i'm just a skeptic at heart
 
It does sound like an interesting read, though.
 
esp when they can't tell me why, but the 'stats agree'...i deal with A LOT of stat, you can make them say whatever
 
well, I have a PDF if you want it :P
 
lol
 
5:32 AM
I'm not selling the book
I'm more trying to sell the idea
and I was skeptical for a LONG time too
I have had friends who are vegetarian for probably 8-10 years
 
How do they feel about sea food?
 
and I always kind of thought a little low of their diet until recently
I LOVE sushi
but...I am starting to think about giving it up
at least, eating it far less
its still meat, and rather high in fats and oils
 
But is it supposed to be as bad as meat?
well, sort of
 
it is meat
ok
let me quote esselstynes diet that HAS, in reality, CURED heart disease in dozens of highly progressed patients who were literally "the walking dead", as he puts it in his book:
and I quote:"
* You may not eat anything with a mother or a face (no meat, poultry, or fish.)
* You cannot eat dairy products.
* You must not consume oil of any kind - not a drop. (Yes, you devotees of the Mediterranian Diet, that includes olive oil, as I'll explain in Chapter 10.)
* Generally, you cannot ear nuts or avocados.
 
there's A LOT of criticism of the china study online, good lord
 
5:36 AM
Thats his heart disease curing (and as they now know, cancer, diabetes, and most western disease curing) diet that has literally cured people of their debilitating, and nearly life-ending heart problems.
yeah...well, most people seem to be skeptics...and most people seem to love their comfort zones ;)
 
By the dictionary fish is meat, but biologically? I wonder how similar/different it is from mammals. For one thing, the type of oil and fat in fish is very different.
But I guess that is in chapter 10? ;-)
 
most people criticize what they don't know and don't understand, or what infringes on their <ego|reputation|cash cow|grounds for grant money|insert personal factor here>
Even I do.
@Sean meat is muscle
 
fish are pretty much all muscle
 
Right. But it comes down to why meat (muscle) is bad for you, and if some kinds are worse than others.
 
5:42 AM
@rfusca nothing that I can see in the way of references for her sources of data
 
@jrista they're pulling the data from the China study....
 
@Sean Well, meat is the primary source of intake for cholesterol and saturated fats, as well as a variety of enzymes, hormones, etc that only exist in animals.
The "complex" of meat...the protein, cholesterols, fats, and the enzymes and hormones, are the problem.
Science likes to break things down to single vectors and figure out if that particular single vector is the problem.
I guess the difference with the china study is its not a vector study, its a complex study.
 
Aren't there multiple kinds of cholesterol, though?
 
It was a study that approached the problem holistically.
LDL and HDL
LDL is pretty bad
HDL is good, in small amounts
but there are more complex factors to cholesterols than that
I don't fully understand them all, so I won't get into that
And again, with the article linked by rfusca, it appears the woman is breaking down the study into single vectors, and looking at the correlations of those single vectors.
Not that that is an invalid approach, but its the approach of analyzing the whole complex at once that is intriguing about the china study.
And there are real-world results that speak for themselves...its not just about a bunch of numbers, data points, and charts.
Thats why I like Dr. Ornish and Dr. Esselstyns studies. They CURED patients...cured them.
 
@jrista BUT THEY DON'T FREAKING KNOW HOW
 
5:48 AM
people who would have been dead a decade ago, who had already had heart attacks, who were already told they were dead, as there was nothing more that could be done
they dropped meat in their diet, switched to a plant foods diet, and within 2 years showed remission
 
It seems like (and I only have what little you have written about it to go on here, so...) but it seems like the China study is more focused on finding a solution to the meat/health problem than pinning down an exact cause. Not a bad thing, and I tend to agree with the results, but my inner skeptic/scientist wants to know the cause.
 
some showed complete restoration of arteries that were so far gone no doctor in the world would have said they could ever be saved
@Sean Well, I guess my point is this.
 
hello
 
i'm not arguing that apparently that works, but you don't know that there isn't a variable otherwise causing it
 
Even if we do not know the specific mechanism...if they are saving the lives of the people who choose to switch to their diets...why does it matter?
 
5:49 AM
@Francesco Hi
 
@rfusca Well, I think that is where the data and the correlations do point to a logical cause.
 
because what if its something simple you could do and eat meat
see, you just turned correlation into cause
 
There isn't proof...there never is in science. There is no causality in science, only correlation and association.
 
@Sean hello @Sean
 
eh, i'm done debating
nobody will be convinced here today
 
5:50 AM
@jrista Really, it doesn't. I'm just a currous person who doesn't like not to know ;-)
 
@rfusca: If you want more details, you would have to read the books. I can't write out the whole book word for word here.
@Sean Me too, and I'm sure some day these guys will gain some real momentum, some worthwhile grants, and will figure it all out.
 
@jrista lol, i do know that ;) i'm just a bit surprised you seem to have not looked up any counter arguments
 
But all we have today is a lot of people being cured of terrible diseases that normally kill by switching to a plant foods diet.
 
@jrista Your typing skills are impressive, but that does sound fair. If I ever get free time to read again, I think I will have to check this out.
 
@jrista well I understand what you say but taken too literally sayint that there's no proof in science is a bit extreme ;-) I for one see some difference between the scientific method and some other approaches...
 
5:52 AM
If you choose to keep eating meat, thats your choice. It seems evident if you DO want to keep eating meat, 5% or less of your diet is still 90% healthy.
@Francesco Well, aside from Newtons laws of physics, I don't know of anything in science that is literally undeniable and irrefutable. ;)
 
@jrista Newton's laws are refuted by General relativity ;-)
 
@jrista Newton got it wrong. It just doesn't matter very often.
 
lol
 
well, general relativity has been refuted by other theories
 
and doesn't Francesco have a doctorate in physics?
 
5:54 AM
which reinforce newtons dynamics
 
@jrista which ones? that's not what I know. Rather it seems to me that it's the only among the competing theories (like loop quantum gravity or some versions of string) which has got some experimental proofs
 
@jrista And at the risk of belaboring my point to death and then beating the dead horse meat, I still would want to see more on how different meat sources differ in their negative effects, rather than lump all meat together.
 
@rfusca well yes, everybody has done his mistakes :)
 
@Sean books
 
lol
 
5:56 AM
yeah yeah
 
@Francesco let me see if I can find an article for you
 
I don't know this books that you are talking about, but I have tried to exclude meat from my diet. At first I was rather happy because it seemed to work properly and I had greatly reduced headaches. Furthermore when, in the first few days, I relapsed and ate a bit of meat, I immediately had a
 
Well, here is information on the Electric Universe: holoscience.com/news.php
 
Relativity is still more right than pure Newtonian physics.
 
feeling of heavyness and headache
 
5:58 AM
the fundamental premise is that the electromacnetic force is largely ignored in modern physics for larger object dynamics, when it shouldn't be
 
but then after some three months I was rather more weak and white :-). I have since took again to eat meat, only in smaller amounts. I feel much better now than previously.
 
sweet, transition from diet to theories of the universe
LOVE IT
 
the premise is also based on the idea that plasma dynamics are also largely misunderstood, and that plasma is quite literally electrified matter
@Francesco: If your interested, and it sounds like you know your physics, you could get a lot out of those articles.
 
@jrista that's because EM is largerly neutralized given the strong character of EM force
 
@Francesco That is falsified in those articles ;)
You just have to read.
 
5:59 AM
@jrista I used to know my physics
 
I apparently am not good at explaining things, so you'll just have to read. The authors are extremely well versed in plasma dynamics, and really know their shit.
 

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