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8:55 AM

Brian Ballsun-Stanton has unfrozen this room.

Zachiel

Hello~

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

as you were saying.

Zachiel

So, to make a long story short, I'm mostly playing a more healthy version of myself, which I have problems puppetmastering because I've never been in, say, a forest trapped in Ravenloft, fighting for the land's destiny. XD

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

umm...

Zachiel

but let's start from what I've been told, by people outside the game. Are you familiar with the monkeysphere concept?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

9:00 AM

no

Zachiel

Basically, there's only a certain number of people anyone really cares about. For monkeys it's about 50, for humans it's about 150. Those are the people that really change your life when they die. I've been told I seem to care too much for people outside the monkeysphere. For people that should not matter to me.

This was invoked on me while I talked about envy issues towards better roleplayers

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

you mean dunbar's number?

Zachiel

I have no idea if it's also called that way, I got introduced to it lately

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Dunbar's number

Dunbar's number is a suggested cognitive limit to the number of people with whom one can maintain stable social relationships. These are relationships in which an individual knows who each person is and how each person relates to every other person. This number was first proposed in the 1990s by British anthropologist Robin Dunbar, who found a correlation between primate brain size and average social group size. By using the average human brain size and extrapolating from the results of primates, he proposed that humans can only comfortably maintain 150 stable relationships. Proponents assert that...

Zachiel

I don't think it's the same thing but the concept is very similar

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

9:04 AM

brb, dinner. Keep discussing, I'll read the log when I'm back in a bit.

Zachiel

Mmmmh reading more into it, maybe the blogger just oversimplified the basics behid the concept. Anyway. Envy issue: as you might remember we're a huge cast of characters and who goes questing depends on who knows about a thing, who is expected to be able to contribute, who can be there at the same time as the others.
So this time there were no acceptance issues. I was there when the quest happened, I got into the party and we went destroyng some corrupted, evil tree.
But, since we're chosen from a huge cast, the DM is supposed to evaluate how we performed and cast his votes on us. It's hard…

(End of minirant)

Anyway, playing someone who does not really know things and needs to ask others to help him understand or do those things is harder than it seemed. The kildar is proactive. He might not know how to do a thing but he knows how that thing should be done and why. I (therefore, my character) don't.

Also, the kildar has a time pressure, he needs to be ready before the enemy comes down from the hills. I have the same need but in a D&D game I can only be as ready as my XP allow me - I'm not supposed to be able to be so ready that I don't feel menaced anymore, because threats scale with me.
Also, I'm basically a city-dweller in a forest with no ranks in survival, which means I don't travel much or get to know much people except residents. I also don't have all the politic weight the kildar has (I'm not the best operative in the world, I don't know any president or general, I don't have pe…

Now, the real reason I wanted to talk with you again (yes this was just contextualization) is that playing a level 6 melee cleric and playing along a level 10 blaster cleric feels weird. She's better than me in melee because she has access to better spells.
But, should I accept that I should be higher level and I used some of my xp to level up, there would be a moment when she surpasses me again because I got a job and I'm not playing that much anymore. I fear that would be bad to my character's ego. Despite being theoretically able to control it, I don't feel much in control. It's like if …

Another example of me giving too much importance to people I don't know and being uselessly envious (or, as I put it, "what I mean when I say I put people on pedestals", born from a "putting women on pedestals is bad" argument I won't really delve in unless it's with a therapist). You, writing about the cystarchy. I think your ability to analize the possible consequences of spells or working your way back from consequences to causes is great.
I'm pretty sure it's partly from your studies, which I have no will to do myself. So I just sit here wishing not that I was you but rather that I coul…

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

9:51 AM

back

Zachiel

Good reading

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

um..

I hear what you're saying.

I'm not quite sure what happens next though.

Zachiel

I wantedd to hear your opinion: Has being low level attained what you think it would have? Basically I'm in the situation where I think I'd have more fun if I leveled up, but I'm not sure it would not ruin whatever plan was behind the idea

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

I don't think levelling up will change a thing about your situation

It's fundamentally not about your level, nor can it be

again, I'll suggest a change of venue, since this game doesn't seem to be healthy for you.

Zachiel

Mainly, all this "I'd like to have, some day, a character who suffered his being weak in the beginning and now is past that phase" is feeling like "I have a weak character who can't contribute, and I'm not able to even the odds with other people in different ways anyway"

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

10:01 AM

er...

I can't stop you from trying to achieve a vicarious power fantasy through incrementing numbers, but I can suggest that it doesn't seem to be a worthwhile proxy for you.

And again, you should play a different game. This one seems to make you unhappy and frustrated at every turn.

Zachiel

Which leads to the unanswerable question: which one?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@Zachiel er... no? There are plenty of short games out there

not in this format, not in this soul-sucking sunk-cost gambler's-fallacy format.

Zachiel

Ah yeah I see

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

find the game that will adequately proxy for validation

instead of the game that strings you along for years with false promises

find a system that provides better meshing with how you think

Zachiel

And I know why I keep falling back into this kind of gemas. I like the idea of building for the future.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

10:04 AM

find a genre that allows you to achieve.

@Zachiel er...

Then go find a game of Ars Magica online

Zachiel

It's like how I like playing a D&D game from 1 to 30 rather than "wasting" an evening playing Fiasco

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

or, better yet, organise one in person

@Zachiel ... yeaah

except for the small detail that that same criterion of waste can be applied to both things

a thing is wasteful if it doesn't provide its intended purpose

spending months or years on the thing, makes it no less wasteful

but yeah, go play ars magica with a completely different group. and I will once again recommend therapy.

Zachiel

We are at level 6 now and I feel really happy we did 3 encounters in a row yesterday evening rather than going out with some friends that could only get to the meeting place very late. (I know. I have a sad life)

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

this game, this system, they're not treating you well.

Zachiel

I don't really think it's the system, rather the fact that I keep trying to perform better than other writers, which I suppose I should somehow become able to do. Yet, I know it might not really be the only issue, I just feel it's the worse.

Also, feeling sad because I could not save an NPC I liked - maybe dad is right about game dependancy

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

10:08 AM

Well, you seem to have identified some of the problems, mate.

Zachiel

I think going to my dad and saying "I don't think I have game dependancy, I just like to organize my life so that I can keep playing" is not a great thing to do. But then how do people distinguish things they like, hobbies or things they'd like to do from obesessions?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

@Zachiel do you actually want an answer to that one?

Zachiel

no.

or at least not to the first part

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

indiana.edu/~engs/hints/addictiveb.html

Zachiel

as for the second I guess it's either "they don't" or "a therapist could tell you"

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

10:15 AM

they do by identifying harmful side effects.

bbiab

Zachiel

[reading]

yes, I have some of those

I don't know if I'm obsessed. I often think about it, or wish I could speak to my friends about it instead of talking about their obsessions (currently, when I meet with friends, a lot of time is spent talking about DotA games they recently played, or the last changelogs or how I should play with them even if I hate losing games and I'm bad at the game, just for the company)

I don't put the game in front of going out with my friends or helping family. I might have a more general PC addiction since I'd rather chat somewhere than relax and recover from neck pain, and there are times when I'd like to stay home and play rather than get up, get out and get togheter, but I almost never refuse doing other things.

There have been times when I compulsively tried to level up fast, think lots of farming in a mmorpg, but nowadays I only play when I like doing it (even if not being there as much as others makes me feel worse than them sometimes).

Withdrawal, I don't think. I've passed some years without playing, because I couldn't, and I didn't particularly want to. There are also times when I don't play for a week or so, because I don't feel motivated to do so. Then someone I like playing with asks me and I usually say yes.

Loss of control... maybe. I sometimes lose track of time but it's rare and it's when I can allow it.

Denies problems? No. I just wish those were not problems. But I'm a stupid boy who'd rather wish there was some kind of perfect world where good things just happened instead of this thing we need to thrive in so this kinda fits in, I guess.

Hides the behavior - sometimes: I don't like my dad constantly reminding me I should do other things (not things I forget to do, but things I don't really like doing) so I don't really say out loud when I'm gaming. Also, I indulge in games I'm not comfortable with friends knowing about them, but I don't think it has something to do with not wanting them to know that I, in general, waste my time playing games.

blackouts? Ah, somebody should tell me, I think no but it's hard to say.

Depression? Yes.

Low self exteem and anxiety? Lots of. Bad parenting? I don't think so.

[copies the whole thing into a file and sends it to a therapist friend he knows from those games]

Anyway, I must be addicted to the brain chemicals that make me feel miserable. I've been told my gaming is not masochism.

And now I go playing a game of one of those games that start and end in less than one hour, just in the hope of gaining some more in-game currency to amass for the moment I can buy every additional content, which will never happen unless I play like 5 hours a day every day

Zachiel

11:20 AM

(it's also hard to not envy people who write better than me when that got some of them laid multiple times, but I guess this is not really what a game or this chat should be about so I'll drop this now.)

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Well, you know my recommendations. So I'm going to bid thee a good night, and I hope you can break free of your game.

Zachiel

11:50 AM

@BrianBallsun-Stanton Thank you

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