« first day (733 days earlier)      last day (4263 days later) » 

5:00 PM
@voretaq7 Didn't somebody in the room point out that nobody's really ready for 2.4 yet?
 
@Adrian yeah, but my biggest hurdle is the config file changes
Passenger should work fine, PHP should be OK - mod_perl may be tricky...
 
@Adrian Yep, me. Many of the modules don't work in 2.4
 
nginx - not vulnerable
 
I could live without the broken modules. But that's like telling someone they could bike 6 miles to work.
 
I'm not too worried. But only because I'm sure the box is already hacked. It's on Apache 2.2.8 with a totally unpatched Fedora 7 on it.
 
5:02 PM
@MichaelHampton To what? Everything that implements SSL 3.0 or TLS is potentially vulnerable.
 
@MichaelHampton RH/CentOS is also moving slowly :D. What breaks with Debian?
 
@ewwhite you rang?
 
193
A: CRIME - How to beat the BEAST successor?

Thomas PorninThis attack is supposed to be presented in 10 days from now, but my guess is that they use compression. SSL/TLS optionally supports data compression. In the ClientHello message, the client states the list of compression algorithms that it knows of, and the server responds, in the ServerHello, wi...

 
@MichaelHampton Vulnerable unless compression is disabled by default :)
 
@MichaelHampton Yeah. It's a problem with TLS Compression, not specific to Apache.
 
5:05 PM
3
A: Disable deflate compression in nginx SSL

Maxim DouninSSL compression is turned off by default in nginx 1.1.6+/1.0.9+ (if OpenSSL 1.0.0+ used) and nginx 1.3.2+/1.2.2+ (if older versions of OpenSSL are used). If you see SSL compression, you probably want to upgrade nginx. Another obvious solution is to recompile OpenSSL without zlib compression sup...

 
(and vulnerable anyway if someone turns it on)
 
@MichaelHampton OIC, default is secure.
 
We haven't turned it on anywhere. I went and looked. :)
 
@MichaelHampton fuck you then - goddamn hedgehog :-P
 
@MDMarra hello there...
 
5:06 PM
I'm not one of those people to just randomly turn on features.
 
@ewwhite What's up?
 
Starting OneCommand Manager Management Daemon:
File Open Error: file=/usr/sbin/ocmanager/rm.log
File Open Error: file=/usr/sbin/ocmanager/rm.logFile Open Error: file=/usr/sbin/ocmanager/rm.log done

Clearly the best place for a logfile is in /usr/sbin. Fscking idiots.
 
@MDMarra I was ranting earlier about my client in your town.
 
Ah, fun
 
@MDMarra I'm not sure I can recount the details for a THIRD time here...
 
5:09 PM
Fair enough
 
but in short, the client said no or not-yet to the VMWare infra and Exchange/AD upgrades I proposed...
and said that they would try to do it on their own.
 
@ewwhite I honestly don't think this virtualization thing is going to catch on.
 
Heh, that sounds like fun.
 
Yeah, and that whole Internet thing is just a fad too.
 
Evidently my fingers autocorrected.
 
5:10 PM
Virtualization? Never heard of it. Is that sort of like that stupid Ethernet nonsense?
 
@mdmarra Yeah, they're not too sure about using VMWare...
E.g. they don't trust it.
 
That's rational.
 
@MDMarra It is?
 
A multi-billion dollar company partnered with the market leaders in networking and storage? Fuck it, don't trust them.
</sarcasm>
 
:)
 
5:12 PM
Although, Hyper-V looks mighty attractive to SMBs
(Not that I have much experience with it)
 
They still have Windows 2000 PC's in some places.
and the domain is on an HP cluster of DL360 G3's.
 
oh my
 
@ewwhite Hell, it only took me 2 months to convince my boss. Of course, it was more a case of seducing him with the coolness.
 
holy shit what a day
 
@mdmarra here we go...
Jul 9 at 18:06, by ewwhite
user image
 
5:16 PM
Ah, I remember that from before
The two D-Link DNS-323 NAS units made me laugh
I have one in my living room
 
So, how would you say, "I don't think this is a project you should tackle on your own?"
 
I mean, I don't really ever deal with companies in a consulting capacity so I don't know.
Maybe something like "Just to be clear, if you start and get 1/2 way and call me in to finish it, there's a good chance I'll want to blow away what you've done and configure it from scratch."
Or something to that effect but nicer. Let them know you're not willing to frankenstein their shit-mess.
 
@MDMarra THink of the VMWare environment you built... or anything with AD... Do you think a coupole of internal IT guys with no experience with it could figure it out?
 
They have no AD experience or no VMWare experience?
 
and migrate 85 users from pop3 and imap on Linux to Exchange
 
5:20 PM
Oh yeah no way.
I was trained in AD. I learned most of the VMWare stuff I know on my own from reading, labbing, etc.
 
@MDMarra Neither... They say they've stayed on the circa W2003 HP cluster for so long because they don't understand what it does...
 
Smart IT people with no experience can learn what they need to know to run a small VMWare cluster in a couple of months w/ self-study, I think.
The AD shit, you can't just go from 0 to 60 and expect it to work.
 
so by building this new thing, they'll have an understanding of how it works.
 
@MichaelHampton SSL Compression is one of those "It seemed like a good idea at the time" things.
 
Can you offer something like "I'll do the project plan, I'll do the implementation details, but I'll let your staff drive so that they get the knowledge transfer." ?
It'll definitely tack plenty of billable hours onto the project and both people end up happy.
 
5:22 PM
It's two people... and I offered training.
 
@ewwhite What's your post-mortem rate?
 
@voretaq7 Crypto is HARD.
 
@voretaq7 180-200
 
Ouch. Just did some pricing for VMWare. Essentials Kit: $560 Essentials Plus $5600.
 
If they've already refused training, all you can really do is let them know that you're willing to clean up and potential messes, but you can't guarentee business continuity if you have to blow away misconfigured machines and start over.
@Adrian No one plays list price. Is that list?
 
5:24 PM
@MDMarra Yeah. Their online store.
 
Yeah, get in touch with a reseller
You also qualify for charity pricing, right?
 
Yeah, that's close to what people pay. Sometimes there are deals on the Essentials kit.
I usually tell people $500 and $4500.
 
@MDMarra Yeah, but non-profit pricing is often more expensive than the discounts being offered to other businesses.
 
You can get a discount on non-profit skus :)
 
5:27 PM
I think we paid $5k for an IBM X3550M3 with 24G RAM and 2x500GB drives even with our "discount".
 
Get a quote for regular pricing, then be like "Oh, I'm sorry, I wanted non-profit pricing"
 
@voretaq7 I don't mind it.
 
@MDMarra I'll keep that one in mind.
 
And then be like "There was x% markdown on regular price, it should be the same % for non-profit, right?"
 
Especially since we're considering shifting to HP and there's a local reseller for HP.
 
5:28 PM
@ewwhite I do. Why should I as a responsible citizen not be allowed to indulge myself with a gigantic bucket of sugar water occasionally if I so desire?
 
Honestly, all the VARs need to do is go back to VMWare and ask for a deeper discount
 
There isn't much room on those SKU's
 
We paid like 60% off of list for vSphere standard licenses with .edu and other discounts in at $lastjob
 
Is the next step banning buckets-of-coffee because someone with a heart condition may drop dead from drinking it?
 
We also bought like 80k worth of hardware with it though, so that might have helped. HP may have subsidized the licensing cost to get their hardware in our door.
 
5:30 PM
@voretaq7 New Yorkers seem slim... and all about their cocaine and cigarettes...
 
@MDMarra Yeah, we'll see how this goes. The management is starting to discover that we can in fact roll out new services faster and cheaper with VMs. So now they're requesting stuff that they'd never wanted to pay $5k for.
 
At least from what I saw last night
 
We may end up needing more of these ESXi boxen.
 
@Adrian Keep in mind that there's no real upgrade from essentials to standard
 
@ewwhite generally the fat-asses stay home
 
5:31 PM
@MDMarra I seriously doubt they'll even go for even the Essentials Plus 3-server kit unless it's wrapped into some other projects. And then only as a 1-time expense covered by a grant.
 
@voretaq7 get 3-liter sodas and call it a day!
 
My Dad (engineer for subsidy of Canon) visited an office recently and had to find drivers for Windows 2000, XP, Vista, and 7.
 
@Adrian Does Hyper-V make more sense for you?
Support is included in most modern Linux kernels now
 
@MDMarra I've already tried that tack. The boss has issues with Microsoft products and he doesn't want to use our TechSoup licenses on infrastructure, just on user-facing products like Office.
 
5:33 PM
And you can get SCVMM for less than that essentials price (SCVMM is the equivalent to vCenter)
 
@MDMarra RMS DISAPPROVES!
 
But yes, it would in fact make more sense.
 
But Hyper-V server is free
 
@adrian, what's the problem?
 
You'd only need to buy SCVMM, and even that's optional
 
5:33 PM
@MDMarra But the OS under it isn't, and that's what he's balking at.
 
@MDMarra but it's not free
 
@ewwhite My boss is just being his usual irrational self.
 
@Adrian What do you mean?
 
You get the $500 package if you can live without vMotion. If you need vMotion, you have to pay $5k.
 
You'd have to pay for those OSes whether they're on VMWare or HV
 
5:34 PM
and even with that, it's still shitty... the good features don't come in until a much higher price bracket.
unless you look for keygens...
 
well to get live migration with Hyper-V you need an enterprise cluster, thats $10k right there
 
@ewwhite Exactly. And Good Lord do I want vMotion. The notion of having to manually convert dozens of VMs from one set of local drives to another gives me hives.
 
@MDMarra if you run 2008 data center or 2012 enterprise as your hyper-v host, you can run unlimited 2008 standard or 2012 standard guests.
 
@longneck 2010 enterprise isn't even a thing.
 
sorry, meant to say 2012
 
5:35 PM
And you don't need to run it as the host
 
@MDMarra Oh, he's fine with paying for the OS as clients. Just not for OSs as the host.
 
@Adrian You dont need to pay for the OS that hosts
You can get Hyper-V server, which isn't a full windows OS
 
@MDMarra Oh. That I did not know.
 
yep, sucker is free
 
Yeah
 
5:36 PM
I don't think it clusters though right?
 
Of course it does
 
oh, that I did not know
 
@BrentPabst Hyper-V does, VMWare doesn't
 
damnit cisco y u no put cdp on ASAs
 
For production deployments, MS doesn't recommend running full-blown Windows as a host OS, they recommend Hyper-V server
 
5:37 PM
@Zypher i think CDP is in 8.4
 
tis not
 
right, I just could not remember if the free Hyper-V server could run in high availability mode with other clustered hosts
 
@MDMarra Interesting. A friend of mine is a Hyper-V expert for WA state's social services division. I'll buy her a few beers and get her to give me some pointers.
 
I guess there's a need for sysadmins to learn how to sell ideas.
 
@Zypher Y U WANT CDP? USE CLIPBOARD!
 
5:38 PM
@voretaq7 haha
 
@longneck You don't need to run Data center edition as the host. You can do the same thing by running Hyper-V server as the host and just having datacenter licenses for that box. Also, 2008 Enterprise edition doesn't grant unlimited guests, only 4 guests. Not sure about 2012.
 
@ewwhite Yes. Any recommendations for books/videos on that?
 
Clipboard Discovery Protocol!
"There's a router here? Fuck... it's not on my list.... should we unplug it?"
 
I mean, cost is cost... if you present the costs and show that you've done due diligence to either maximize the benefit/minimize cost or to present all of the options... What else is there to say?
 
5:39 PM
unplug it to find out if it's really in use
 
@Zypher oh, you're right. i was thinking of netflow.
 
@ewwhite No there's a need for SysAdmins to become more of product and solution people for the business, much easier to "sell" ideas if you are proposing an entire solution as opposed to just a purchase
 
@ewwhite In a rational business, yes. Someday I hope to work for one of those again.
 
@Zypher Unplug router.... lights go out.
 
@longneck ja, well it's relaly SFlow a subset of NetFlow more geared towards security logging
 
5:40 PM
@BrentPabst But in most businesses, the computers are a big part... unplug that there server and see what happens.
 
@MDMarra just an FYI but the 2008 Enterprise license gives you 4 client licenses at the same edition (ent) as long as the host is only running hyper-v
 
Not true
 
so there should always be a willingness to listen to your systems staff,
 
You get 4 guest licenses with 2008 (R2) Enterprise for any virtualization solution as along as all 4 guests run on the same physical hardware.
 
@ewwhite Agreed, but if you approach it purely from a we need this here big server as opposed to this big server will allow us to support five different departments all running "x" applications for the next 3 years, thats a bit different
 
5:41 PM
@MDMarra Which sort of cripples VMotion/DRS :)
 
@MDMarra right, plus an additional enterprise license for the host, provided the host is only doing virtulization.
 
@longneck No
 
@MDMarra I didn't think that was the case with a standard OS, at least not how our licensing people explained it to us
 
Can you help me understand Microsoft licensing?
 
@BrentPabst Oh, of course... that's finesse.
 
5:42 PM
@MichaelHampton No it blows
 
There's a serious shit ton of misinformation about microsoft licensing in here right now. haha
 
@MichaelHampton Sure... first point this Colt .45 at your head and pull the trigger :-)
 
must be, I guess our MSFT licensing rep was an idiot then
 
@voretaq7 Easy enough to vmotion right before the audit :)
And those licenses arent tied to a specific physical host
 
I'm back! In pog form
 
5:43 PM
@MDMarra but then DRS says "Hey wait this server is overloaded!"
 
So as long as they're deployed/vmotioned in multiples right before the audit you're good
 
@MDMarra yeah that's the rub - your 4 have to be on the same physical host, so if DRS puts a 5th somewhere (or you only have one group of 4 and it splits them 2-and-2) you're technically in violation the way I understand it
I don't think MS would crucify you for it, but... bleh
 
@longneck Enterprise allows for 4 guests and 1 physical install on the same hardware. There's no requirement that you use that physical install license. You can have those 4 guests on ESXi. KVM, Xen, whatever. If you choose to use Hyper-V, you can use the same enterprise license for the host (not a good idea) or you can use Hyper-V Server (good idea).
@voretaq7 Yeah, I really don't think you'd be dinged in an audit for that as long as it's all the same cluster.
 
One day.. just one freaking day, it would be nice if MSFT provided a single one page paper that explained all of the specific options for a specific config or feature
but... that'll never happen
 
@MDMarra probably not - just bugs me that the license says "host" and not "cluster" -- it's more a "Well we found a more serious violation, so we're writing you up for this one too"
 
5:46 PM
user image
2
That's what Microsoft licensing looks like to me.
 
Ok gents, I'm out of here. Back to my Nexus 7k migration
 
@MDMarra ok, we were trying to say the same thing, but you said it better. :)
 
I give MS a fucking shit-ton of credit for being one of the first companies to ADDRESS virtualization in their license (and do it pretty well)
 
@MichaelHampton funny enough thats their internal org structure too
 
I believe it.
 
5:47 PM
@BrentPabst Their entire business model is predicated on people getting licensing wrong
 
@BrentPabst that's an old org chart. The chair isn't on it.
 
@MichaelHampton seems about right
 
You know what would be cool, to get a MSFT rep from the licensing group to write up a canonical answer for the recurring licensing questions that people keep asking about
 
@BrentPabst have you actually talked to those people? They make IT folks seem normal
 
IT folks aren't normal?
 
5:50 PM
@Zypher Yea, used to work with the Tri-State regional team before, they aren't that bad, some are
 
@MichaelHampton we are compared to IT Lawyers
 
either way, that would be really helpful
but SE probably wouldn't like it, opens them up for lawsuits down the road if MSFT changes policies
 
@BrentPabst meh i don't see how it would open us up to lawsuits as long as there was a disclaimer or some such
although MS licensing really isn't that hard if you take a couple hours to sit down and figure it out
 
@Zypher its just finding the info is the hard part
and its a dry read for sure
RDS licensing blows the most though, WinCAL and a RD CAL, hell no.
 
haha
 
5:54 PM
@BrentPabst That's like saying you can be sued for telling noobs to rm -rf /
 
@JoelESalas ...you can
They'd have to prove damages and malicious intent, but if they can do that you're a target
 
@BrentPabst Uh, you know MS Sales Reps go through a month-long course on their licensing, right? I'd be shocked if any 2 reps ever gave you the same answer on anything.
 
@JoelESalas Companies and people are stupid and file all kinds of lawsuites, case in point... theoatmeal.com/blog/funnyjunk_letter
 
@BrentPabst To be fair, if you're connecting from an equivalent version of Windows you don't need the RD Cal (last I looked, MS is as moody as a woman)... So the RD Cal is just making up for the MS Tax you dodged by buying a Linux device. =]
 
Risks of Microsoft Licensing
 
5:59 PM
@ChrisS Right, until you try to do VDI, then you do... its a hot mess
 
Swear to God. I'm going to stop giving my boss suggestions. I think he simply rejects them in order to look like he's doing something.
 
@BrentPabst SA if you're big enough for VDI
 
@Adrian You should suggest that the company defer the espresso machine installation.
 
@MichaelHampton Our espreso machine is around the corner and two blocks away inside the Starbucks.
Reading through a Cisco book. Book says that you must use cross-over cables between switches. o_O
 
6:15 PM
@Adrian errr wassthis now?
how old is that book?
i mean auto mdi-x is at least 10 yrs old now
 
Wiley claims the book is (c) 2012. I'm starting to wonder just how thorough their vetting of the most recent edition has been.
Cisco networking Essentialls
 
hmm i smell old salty bastards living in a cave and writing books
 
@Zypher You mean CCNAs?
 
nah those are the fresh meat
probably CCIEs
 
6:32 PM
@Adrian There's no such thing as a giga-bit cross-over cable... All 4 pairs are both send and receive. =]
I've heard plenty of critiques on the official Cisco books for crap like that..
 
@ChrisS I know. Out of date technical books with recent copyright dates make me irrationally angry.
 
Also, famous one from the CCNA book is that Datagrams are defined as both UDP packets and as what the rest of the world calls the Payload inside an IP packet.
 
(Because apparently even people who are from around here don't know that exists)
 
@voretaq7 Wow, that's crazy cool.
I have to wonder if it really cost all that much more to renovate that place than to build one of their cookie cutter eye-sores.
 
6:49 PM
WTF is this shit?!?
 
@wfaulk: Played with it a little today, pretty cool, pretty buggy at this point though
 
were both your arms so worn out that you had to get your computer to masturbate for you?
 
Anyone happen to have two ADs in the same subnet?
 
@wfaulk Eh, looks like someone got bored so they decided to reinvent the wheel with more syntax than vim
 
7:00 PM
@ChrisS probably - restoration of that much wood is kerspensive
 
@voretaq7 Well I'm thinking that if it was that expensive, then McD would have just sold it instead of renovating...
 
@wfaulk I LIKE IT! So when df tells me / is at 101% full I can just edit the output and make it empty!
(fucking mental defective)
@ChrisS they get lots of revenue from that location
to say nothing of bragging rights
 
@wfaulk `That be awesome
 
bounty!!!
4
Q: Is my Cisco switch port bad?

ewwhiteI've been chasing a packet-loss and network stability issue for a handful of end-users on an internal network for the past few days... These issues surfaced last week, however the location was struck by lightning six weeks ago. I was seeing 5-10% packet loss between a stack of four Cisco 2960's ...

unless someone wants to take a crack before I add a bounty
Client emails... "We have a new port tester that I’m reading the instructions on. Once I’ve read them I will go down and test the ports and let you know if it finds anything."
 
@voretaq7 Yup, seen that happen before. flickr.com/photos/mudder_bbc/435695431
 
7:07 PM
And I don't think a switchport tester exists...
 
@JeffFerland Always disturbed the fuck out of me that McDs in Maine serves lobster
@ewwhite BAD switch port! BAD! GO SEND PACKETS TO THE NULL INTERFACE!
 
hmm, maybe no bounty.
 
@voretaq7 "And you'll have to calculate port statistics in pico-assay-tons this weekend! In Octal!"
Troll packet dad.
 
7:21 PM
@voretaq7 @WesleyDavid Unit cancellation is weird
 
No, TV doesn't come in over cables; it comes in over your fiber optic internet connection, of course.

Someone's messing with you... or maybe just a historical trivia buff. I think I vaguely recall something about "cable TV" from one of my college classes... Ancient European history, or something like that. Learned about a lot of bizzare ancient stuff in that class too... like wires called "rabbit ears" poking out of the Television for wireless support, and heavy, cube-shaped monitors with tiny display sizes in only 256 or 16 or even ***2*** colors. and crazy barbarism like "CRT" display
 
Wait, TV still exists?
 
@WesleyDavid Yeah, it's the precursor to YouTube technology. Still around in most parts of world, but not used much anymore... I think.
 
Dan
7:36 PM
Yo again
 
I seem to recall a tool that would aggregate logs and auto-archive them (compress, move to slower storage, etc) based on rules like time and type of log
Can someone point me in the right direction?
 
@Dan Y U NO WOMAN ANYMORE?
I'm so gender confused.
 
Dan
@WesleyDavid Honestly? It was starting to freak even me out
 
@Dan Lightweight.
 
Dan
@WesleyDavid Pfft
I'm not telling which ones me, though
 
7:47 PM
@Dan Floral pattern in front of the light pole.
 
Dan
@ChrisS Nope
 
@Dan 3 Guesses?
 
Dan
@ChrisS Hang on then
Make it a bit fairer
 
Gentlemen
@Dan dafuq o.O
 
Dan
@LucasKauffman It's what happens when car enthusiasts get together for drinking (There was a fancy dress competition, that was our club)
 
7:53 PM
@Dan Bottom row, far right?
 
Dan
@ChrisS Negative
 

« first day (733 days earlier)      last day (4263 days later) »