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8:00 PM
aw, stupid google image
 
@hobodave, btw, you where offline. If you didn't scroll back, get yourself a couple db9-rj45 connectors and build yourself a serial cable. ossmann.com/5-in-1.html. amazon.com/dp/accessories/B00006IRQA
 
there we go
 
we don't have materials for any of thathere
 
No MacGuyvering?
Anyone try black water? It tastes like...water.
 
@voretaq7 a mains lead from Duckburg?
 
8:04 PM
Ok, how about this. get a 8 paperclips, 4 wires with alligator clips... Two pieces of chewing gum and 6" of duct tape....
 
...and a mullet.
2
If only McGee and Abby were around, I'm sure they could get it working again for @Hobodave...he'd just need a commercial break and a caf-pow.
 
so do I go buy a serial cable?
is that what it's called?
 
Null-modem cable, I think.
null modem cable.
That's what's in the manual I linked to.
It's been awhile since I've had to get one of those...
 
it plugs into my RJ-45 though right?
 
In the long term I think you would be better off buying a couple db9 to rj45 connectors. They will be far more flexible. I have seen routers with unusual wiring, the connectors are easy to reconfigure to whatever you need.
 
8:07 PM
Last time I had to link to a Cisco's serial connection I needed an adapter for my Mac.
 
wtf?
-1
Q: Any free service to redirect a port to some address?

zad0xsisI have a server where I would need to connect, but I can't do it on the standard method due to the network settings, so I was guessing if it exists some service or daemon that could bind the SSH port to some address like for example server1.theservice.com or something in that way. Like localtunne...

 
no, it plugs into the serial port on your computer.
 
will my laptop know how to communicate over that?
I don't have a serial port
 
Serial port or USB<->serial adapter, @hobodave.
And you use a program like Minicom to talk to it.
 
what is all this DB9/RJ45 stuff I see then?
 
8:08 PM
@BartSilverstrim fossil water? Won't the hippies like, throw a tantrum and burn flags or something?
 
Or hyperterm.
@holocryptic: don't know why...plain water is filtered dinosaur piss.
 
I'm confused
 
@hobodave should be DB9 to DB9 -- you may need to get a USB to serial adapter too
 
@hobodave: you'll need a serial to USB adapter and run a program like hyperterm (windows) or minicom (UNIX) to talk to it.
 
@hobodave those are for Cisco devices that have a RJ45 serial port :)
 
8:09 PM
oh
 
@BartSilverstrim "70 million year old source deep within the earth." You're raping mother Gaia to get your black water!
 
Cisco's used a serial interface that looked like a network port. But it wasn't.
 
@BartSilverstrim DISTILLED dinosaur piss.
 
If I drink it she can have it back in a few hours.
 
8:10 PM
Get these... http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00006B8BJ
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000067SNB/
 
why two?
and will it work with os x?
 
I used to use the keyspan adapter for my Mac. Came with Mac drivers.
 
because that is what you need. The usb port to a male db9. Then the female db9 to female db9 wired as a null model cable...
 
And, no that adapter probably won't work with OSX. It is very picky about serial adapters. You'll probably need to go with a keyspan.
 
8:12 PM
why don't they just make a USB to female adapter?
 
@hobodave because some of us need to use the big cable
 
@hobodave, it is wired differently depending on what you connect to.
 
Because most people today ask why they still have serial connectors :-)
 
I am again totally confused
 
So if you had a serial mouse, it would connect directly the the usb adapter
 
8:13 PM
I've been linked to 5 different thins
 
I've still got one of these lying around somewhere bb-elec.com/images/product_images/232BOB1_large.jpg
 
Good luck @hobodave. After getting the adapters you'll want to run something like minicom on the Mac.
 
I'd rather just go out and buy one thing
 
be careful about those usb -> serial adapters
 
That's how I talked to the cisco router before.
 
8:14 PM
... which of course I can't find
 
@BartSilverstrim, I usually just use screen. You don't really need minicom
 
I bought a cheap one, and it BSOD's my win7 laptop if I copy/paste too much
 
Don't need it, but minicom made it nicer to record things.
And it's nicer with the menus.
By the time he gets the parts and such, he'll want something nicer to use to reduce the profanity level.
 
a;slfjasd;lfjasd;lkfjasdfkl;adsf
 
8:15 PM
But minicom isn't available by default is it? Don't you have to install it? screen is built-in.
 
so do I need 3 cables?
 
no, you need a usb to serial adapter, and you need a null model cable.
 
You might find zterm to use? I just used minicom.
What @zoredache said.
Null modem cable, the keyspan adapter, and a terminal program.
 
8:18 PM
@Zoredache and why aren't those jus combined?
 
@hobodave, because that is now rs232 works
 
does it have to be keyspan?
 
Because then you'd have Captain Planet.
Does it HAVE to be? probably not.
I know it works with OS X and has drivers to create the virtual serial port.
 
look up rs232 on wikipedia, and read about the differences between DCE and DTE devices.
 
I don't have time to read up on that
I need to fix shit
 
8:19 PM
@hobodave the keyspan units are the most reliable in my experience
 
thanks @voretaq7
what B&M store is my best bet?
 
...what do you have available?
 
I do wish they made a USB-to-Serial adapter with a push-button to make it null modem
 
maybe Best Buy? Big big maybe?
Serial is a dying breed. You'll be lucky to find them at a BB or Radio Shack.
They don't want to clutter the shelves with them anymore.
Amazon one-day would be your best bet, methinks.
 
@hobodave, you might be more likely to find that CF reader, you mentioned much earlier.
 
8:21 PM
yea
i might go that route
 
Sorry, @hobodave.
 
@hobodave might be more expedient, but definitely get the serial gear - you'll need it again one day
 
what kind of device has no reset switch
not even if you take the lid off
 
well how could it reset it?
the entire OS is on a CF card
what needs to be reset is a software configuration setting stored on the damn CF
even if the Alix board did have a reset switch, it would be ignorant o what's on the CF and just do a low level format at best, still requiring me to get a CF reader
 
it could have a switch that, when you boot it up, the OS loads a default config instead of your custom one
like any sane device. It could hypothetically have that switch inside it as a jumper, like clearing the CMOS.
 
8:27 PM
@hobodave there's supposed to be a little paperclip button hole...
 
@Zoredache BTW, I've had absolutely no problem with off-brand USB-serial devices, as long as they're using the PL2303 chipset (and you install the PL2303 driver before connecting the device the first time)
@Zoredache ...on OSX (forgot to add that)
 
8:55 PM
@voretaq7 on this rower?
router
 
@TessellatingHeckler, or even simpler. Instead of booting a different OS, just give an option a switch/jumper that will perform a network boot. Allowing you to the firmware you want on a tftp server.
 
@hobodave on the alix-based ones yeah -- not 100% sure about that model though
 
yea it has one, but it doesn't appear to do anything
 
If anyone remembers the guy who was trying to RDP into his VMware server that I was complaining about, he now wants to upload a new VM into one of his existing VMs
 
Zore
sigh
type name, tab complete, tab changes focus, backspace to go back and put @ symbol in takes browser back several pages
@Zoredache your "even simpler" is incredibly worse
 
9:02 PM
@voretaq7 I have one of these boards (or a close relative - the 2d3). The switch under that hole just reboots the thing.
 
option 1) it boots to a default config with an IP address. Option 2) you need working tftp, a working config, in a working bootable format
 
If you say so. I already have an environment setup for tftp booting. It would be really easy, for me. I would boot my favorite linux rescue disk, image mount the cf and fix whatever was broken. Easy :P
 
you're a madman
 
MuwahaHAHAahHaHa! Sometimes.
 
the rest of us normal people go "oh no, where's a tftp for windows server ... where's a downloadable boot image from the maker ... which one of these mess of confusing codenames is a compatible image ... ok I've got all that, now it's not working. Now instead of a broken device, I have a broken device, broken tftp and an unknown device image."
 
9:09 PM
tftp for windows, and you called me a madman? This is a bsd box after all, wouldn't you be running your tftp server on a bsd, or at least linux?
 
ok, "where's a linux install, what's the password, which stupid packagemanager does this one have, where's the tftp config, is it working, how do I get this disk image over to it, where are the 'it's not working' logs"
that's an even longer chain of yak shaving again
if I have a broken router, I want to do things which fix my broken router, not things which are unrelated in the hope that they will get me to a state where I can fix the router. {“I know, I'll use regular expressions.” Now they have two problems. - jwz, etc.}
 
@TessellatingHeckler, If you say so. I have that whole linux + tftp + dhcp setup on my bootable USB drive though. I already have the tools ready for that. Therefor, it is very easy.
 
;_;
now you bring bootable usb into it. You're either superman, or a torturer
/checks this is Comms Room not Room 101
but hey, if you think horrible things are very easy ... why aren't these public folders replicating?
:(
 
@TessellatingHeckler, solar radiation is causing interference in the tubes.
 
but it's dark here now
 
10:14 PM
what a painful afternoon
 
did you get things sorted ?
 
yes
had to reformat and reinstall after disassembling
I clearly don't understand VLANs
 
@hobodave They're virtual cables of awesomeness.
 
If this fly is in my office much longer, there will soon be holes in the walls. Keeps trying to land in my water bottle.
@hobodave So, when you configured the device's address to be on vlan 50, that means that only another device that's on vlan 50 can see it over layer 2 (and also needs to be on the same subnet).
 
@ShaneMadden except it didn't wrk that way at all :)
 
10:26 PM
@hobodave Imagine each vlan as its own normal, dumb switch. all the devices plugged into a given vlan can see each other, but not other vlans.
 
that's my understanding
 
customer requests from dumb-ass today: set IE Security Zone setting, mount a SQL Server CD in his VMware host OS, upload a VM image to one of his VM guests
 
what's the difference between tagged, untagged, and excluded in a switch configuration?
 
I'm really tired of teaching a remedial IT course to this goober
 
tagged = the packet gets the vlan identifier attached to it
untagged = no modification of the packet
excluded = not available
 
10:32 PM
I really have no f-in clue here
 
tagged ethernet frames have an additional 32 bits field after the source mac. The describes the vlan and the frame is associated with.
If you want to do some quick reading see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.1Q.
 
I have done plenty of reading
it makes perfect sense in theory
the practical application of it completely evades me
 
untagged in vlan x = all traffic on the port will be classed in vlan x even though the traffic over the wire is not vlan tagged.
tagged in x = network traffic which is tagged for with vlan x is allowed on this port
excluded = network traffic which is tagged for vlan x is ignored on this port
(HP Speak)
 
@hobodave Essentially, a device that's in only one vlan will get an untagged port on that vlan. A device that's on multiples like your pfsense box will get the port configured to allow it to tag packets into multiple vlans in the switch.
 
@ShaneMadden understood
ok so my router WAN ip is 63.149.16.1
 
10:36 PM
@hobodave, the switch trunk port you are connecting to, must also be configured with the same vlan information and vlanID, and tagging.
 
the vr0 interface ip is 172.22.1.1, and I've added VLAN50 on vr0 to have 172.22.50.1
my switch has a static IP of 172.22.50.10
 
which vlan on your switch has that IP? Assuming the stock config, that would be vlan1
 
that's what is weird, I don't understand what "Management VLAN" means
and "Management port"
and how they are different
my router is plugged into port 22
my laptop into 13
 
management vlan means "traffic must be in vlan 50 to get to the mgmg ip", I think management port means "you can only manage it from port 21"
 
does that look "correct" ?
they must not be mutually exclusive, because Im not in port 21
 
10:39 PM
The port you are connected to is probably on vlan50 then.
 
it has this description which confuses me
 
in that case, I don't understand management port either.
 
Management Port - Using the drop-down list, select the port that is connected to the network for management access. The selected 'Management Port' will be auto-configured to be an untagged member in 'Management VLAN' and the port will be excluded from previous untagged VLAN (if any).
what is an "untagged member in 'Management VLAN'"
 
it means all traffic coming in on that port will be allowed to talk on VLAN 50 even if the traffic does not carry the "vlan 50" tag
 
ah
that makes perfect sense
 
10:40 PM
that means any ethenet frams on vlan50, will go to that port without the additional tag.
 
and since it can only put traffic with no tag into one place, if you had it set to go to another VLAN, it will overwrite that with the management vlan
 
(which implicitly cuts it off from untagged access to the old native vlan, probably 1)
 
now I tagged port 22 in VLAN50, so that's the reason I can access my switch?
 
@TessellatingHeckler Beat me to it! ;)
@hobodave Is your NIC still set to tag? If it's not, then your traffic will be on that port's untagged vlan.
 
I don't know what my NIC has to do with it
Im in port 13
my router is in port 22, which is tagged 50
 
10:42 PM
Because your NIC can emit tagged or untagged frames, and the switch has to know about such things.
 
@hobodave, in the network configuration on your computer you can set which vlan your traffic will go to, provided the switch doesn't block it.
 
it is not tagged
so why can I get to it
why are we talking about my laptop?
 
so the switchport 13 needs to be Untagged into vlan 50
 
@hobodave What's that port's untagged vlan, then? you're on that.
 
because we assume that's what you are managing things from
 
10:44 PM
@ShaneMadden it isn't
port 13 is excluded from vlan50
yet I can access my switch
 
O_O
wifi -> router -> switch?
 
no
 
black magic?
 
I showed you my exact configuration
this is why I don't understand wtf is going on
 
@hobodave, you showed us part of the configuration. We would also need to see the vlan screens to fully understand
 
10:45 PM
What the... I don't even...
0
Q: It is possible to run a virtualized OS on a datacenter facility?

Juan Pablo ContrerasI want to know if it is possible to run a virtualized OS over a datacenter service. (i.e. to have a Windows Server at Amazon EC2 and two linux instances running on an installed virtualization engine like vmware...)

 
@WesleyDavid WHYYYYY
is the correct response
 
See vlans -> vlan configuration, vlans -> vlan ports, and vlans -> participation/tagging.
 
Do not put a real picture of yourself as your avatar. I will point and laugh if I see you in the grocery store.
 
@WesleyDavid Yes, absolutely is the correct response.
 
10:46 PM
the interface is spread across like 8 screens
 
@hobodave That's what the command line is for ;)
 
@WesleyDavid All aboard the closeboat!
 
@hobodave, you could always ssh, do a show config and post that.
 
it doesn't have one
this is a smart switch
HP V1810
 
Chris Thorpe just answered and contradicted me. I'm all huffy now.
 
10:48 PM
@WesleyDavid 4 answers now.
I'm on board the close boat with @womble
 
sorry for spam, just 3 more
 
@hobodave: what is it you're trying to do?
or did I miss that?
 
VLAN Ports I'm not sharing unless you ask for it, it's a screen per port
 
That's the most pictures in a row this room has ever seen without at least one being of Rebecca Black.
 
that's a screen per vlan, you have shared the ports
 
10:51 PM
or boobs
 
@TessellatingHeckler I was not explaining what I pasted, but what I didn't
I understand the difference
that middle menu item on the left titled "VLAN ports"
 
so you should only be able to manage that system via port 21, or port 22 with tagging. (unless you have a router setup, that is actually moving packets between vlans.
 
@Zoredache my router is in port 22
 
why does that matter?
 
10:52 PM
This new router you are trying to setup is in port 22?
 
@Zoredache yes
 
what's your router got to do with your laptop managing your switch?
 
@TessellatingHeckler I'm sorry but we seem to have some severe issues communicating, and I'm sure it's my fault, but I can't help getting frustrated so I'm going to ignore your most recent questions.
 
@TessellatingHeckler, one of his earlier question was how was he managing the switch since the management vlan is 50. Only two ports should be able to access vlan50 given those screen shots.
 
sorry, I see, I thought you were trying to understand how you can manage your switch, before working on why you can't manage your router
 
10:54 PM
I'm trying to set this up the "right way"
 
@hobodave What's the management IP/vlan config look like? (sorry if I missed that screenshot)
 
@hobodave @ShaneMadden <-
 
@hobodave It's often easier to set devices up to where they need to be in isolation, before connecting them; cuts down complexity and moving parts.
 
thanks @Tess
this is as simple as it gets Shane, Router, switch, laptop
let me try to explain my end goal
at minimum I want my SIP phones on ports 1-8 in a separate VLAN for simple QoS purposes
they are going to go in 172.22.200.0/24, and utilize an ALG within my router
I'd like to also have my router and switch only accessible via the "management" vlan50, on 172.22.50.0/24
at this point I don't really give a damn about anything else
in the process, I'd also like to understand what I'm doing, and why it works
right now I have my router with two LAN interfaces, one is on the physical interface 172.22.1.1 and the other is vlan50 172.22.50.1
 
what is the IP of your workstation?
 
11:01 PM
172.22.1.10
 
ok, then things ARE working right? If you do a traceroute to your switch it hits the router first right?
 
yep, two hops 172.22.1.1 then 172.22.50.10
I'm sorry if it wasn't clear, but things are working right now, but I just don't understand how, or where to go from here
 
If you want to truely secure your managment vlan, on the router you would firewall rules on what can access vlan50.
 
ok, that makes sense
 
You might add another couple virtual interfaces on the router for the other 3 vlans.
 
11:05 PM
does the switch port my router plugs into need to be "Tagged" in every VLAN?
 
Well every vlan that you want to reach the internet.
If you had something you needed to be completely isolated, or you had some other router you wanted to handle the other vlan, you might not tag them.
 
@hobodave You're not thinking of VLANs like virtual cables of awesomeness yet. Every VLAN you tag onto a port is a virtual cable plugged into a virtual NIC that's plugged into that port.
 
well my phones, and my workstations need to access the internet
 
@hobodave, and that is working right now, correct?
 
I haven't tried the phones
but my workstation is
I'm using it to type here
 
11:13 PM
The phones are to be connected to the physical ports 1-8?
 
they will be
oh yes, "to be"
 
I doubt those will work right now. Since you haven't mentioned setting up a interface on your router for vlan200 and you haven't tagged your router port for vlan200
 
I just finished that I think
I added VLAN 200 to my router and gave it the 172.22.200.1 ip
forgot to tag the port though
 
Is vlan200 the vlan you planned to use for the phones? You also probably want to change ports 1-8 to un-tagged on vlan200
 
so ports 1-8,22 should be tagged 200
and all others should be excluded
why untagged?
:-\ I thought I was just beginning to understand this
 
11:16 PM
tagging is only for trunks (ports that have more then 1 vlan like your router)
 
how will the phones stay separate then?
 
they will be on vlan200, and no other port is on vlan200 other then the router.
Does anyone know of a online white-board application?
 
the phones have to be configured for vlan200?
 
@hobodave, well that is what I think you said you wanted them to be....
 
I thought that the switch would just tag them 200
is it the same thing?
 
11:19 PM
@hobodave, can you be more specific about what you mean?
 
not really
I thought that tagging ports 1-8 was needed to put the phones into their own vlan
 
no
 
you're still confused somewhere
 
but you're saying I shouldn't? and that the phones should tag their packed themselves?
@TessellatingHeckler definitely
 
UNtagging ports 1-8 is needed to put the phones in their own vlan
the tagged/untagged tells the switch how to handle the network data, not how to change the network data
 
11:21 PM
so the switch doesn't tag packets?
ever?
 
And people wonder why chat doesn't work for complicated technical support discussions...
 
ok, your switch has 5 vlans right/ (1,10,20,50, and 200). You need to basically imagine that you have 5 separate switches...
 
making a port untagged says to the switch "take the traffic, expect it to have no vlan tag markings, and treat it as if it is in vlan x", so the phone traffic, which will have no vlan markings, gets into vlan 200 inside the switch
 
Seriously, 5 minutes with me and a whiteboard and all your confusions would be solved, @hobodave.
 
When a port is untagged for vlan200, image that what is plugged into that port is directly attached to the vlan200 switch.
 
11:23 PM
ok I think I get it
that's why the switch warns me with a giant error if I try to "untag" a port in multiple VLANS
 
the tagging comes into play when a port needs to be attached to many of those virtual switches.
 
the "untagged" terminology just confuses the shit out of me
so you group ports into a VLAN by "untagging" them
 
the tag, is a header added to the packets to that trunk port that identifies which virtual switch the frame belongs to.
 
and you share a single port amongst many VLANs by "tagging" it?
 
11:24 PM
@hobodave, yes
 
@womble does anything work for complicated technical support discussions?
 
@hobodave, or to be more precise you tag the non-default vlans.
 
I'm gonna have to come back to the whole default concept
 
@TessellatingHeckler, a whiteboard and face to face discussion is probably the easiest way.
Oh, and add some good equipment and a copy of wireshark.
 
@TessellatingHeckler A whiteboard.
 
11:26 PM
so I want 1-8 untagged 200
and 22 tagged 200
 
@hobodave, I think that is what you want based on the requirements I believe you have described so far.
 
@Zoredache That's an incredibly high caveat concentration you've got there.
 
Well I was going to add 'as I understand it' as well, but I thought that might be going over the top.
@womble, there is a chance he wants something completely different then what I think he wants.
 
:P
 
@Zoredache Yeah, I know -- I took your caveats to mean "You haven't explained things well" not "I lack the skills to know if I'm right"
 
11:34 PM
FML
I just tripped over my laptop power cord and knocked it off a 4ft drop
 
@hobodave, btw, aside from the confusion about configuration, how are you liking that netgate router? I am thinking about grabbing one to test that out.
 
not counting my own idiocy? I like it so far
 
I kinda wish they had an option with more memory..
 

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