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12:01 AM
Hahaha, "A 'floor', and 'room' are not standardized units of measure." @Zoredache
 
Whenever I see conversations like this (Holo's) I feel really lucky to have inherited a good back.
 
I had a good back. Until some bitch failed to yield and I T-boned her.
Entered on 11/23/2011 at 15:34:56 PST (GMT-0800) by Ryan Ch.:
Hi Erik,

This is correct, though the hidden folder cannot be accessed while as Suggested Contacts is also used for autocomplete and can be accessed.

Entered on 11/23/2011 at 15:01:21 PST (GMT-0800) by PLR_3104_48274:
Autocomplete and Suggested Contacts are two separate entities.

Entered on 11/23/2011 at 14:29:54 PST (GMT-0800) by Ryan Ch.:
Hello Erik,

In Exchange 2010 these are stored in the "Suggested Contacts" folder which you can see within Outlook. You can backup that folder if you are worried about losing the data.
Idiots
 
t-boneis not about wild sex, is it?
 
godammit
@syneticondj no, unfortunately not
going around with the support monkey is kind of fun
 
12:29 AM
What I know for certain is that I am overweight. I decided a few weeks ago to get a head start on my New Year's resolution; so now I do at least 500 kcals of work on the elliptical machine. every. damn. day.
 
That's a pretty good start
 
(okay I have skipped a day here and there, but I feel guilty when I do)
I decided I had to take a page from Limoncelli's book and just precompile the decision to the simplest thing possible. Any complexity, any "this day but not that day" stuff just lets me play mental games and outsmart myself into not exercising
 
Yeah, mine's usually "Fuuuuck, I had a really huge lunch. Imma hurl if I work out. I'll do it tomorrow."
 
bingo. and the elliptical machine is pretty forgiving - you can work hard at it, or not ... but the kcal thingy does keep going up as long as you keep moving the pedals
(at different rates obviously)
I won't lie - it's still boring, and I still procrastinate. Sometimes I wait till 10 at night. Podcasts and audiobooks help with the boredom.
 
@Holocryptic The Outlook autocomplete stuff is a pain in the bum. It became absolutely unmanageable with 2010. What a crazy idea to have a "hidden folder" no one is able to access or back up properly. And the hosters make it worse by not providing interfaces for a full mailbox backup, although it would be rather easy to set up.
 
12:41 AM
@quux yeah, I need to find a way to incorporate that. I have tiny ear canals, so my earbuds fall out at the slightest provocation.
@syneticondj I think it was a pain in the ass in earlier versions too
@syneticondj It's such a completely half-assed way of doing things
 
get custom molds made. I did, it's worth it
 
@quux I think I'll have to get something like that, yeah
They should just incorporate the suggested contacts with the auto complete, and quit fucking around with it. It's so many hours of stupid mindless work trying to fix it when it goes wrong
and it always goes wrong
Its the whole cache thing that gets screwed up.
But now users are dependent on it. Like public folders. So MSFT says "We're doing away with PF, but we'll still have backwards compatibility and give you a shitty way of administering it"
Well screw you too
 
I know many users who do not have contact lists or address books anymore but manage everything through autocomplete. That is at least until it breaks for the second or third time.
And hey: who needs public folders when there is sharepoint? har har
 
I hate public folders with a passion. Sharepoint not quite as much, as I haven't dealt with it in full yet, but yeah, I know it's crap too
 
This is probably the only reason you don't hate Sharepoint yet :)
 
12:53 AM
@Holocryptic Sharepoint's above Public Folders in my hate spectrum. And that's saying something.
 
@ShaneMadden ohhh common you don't like being able to overwrite AllItems.aspx from word?
 
@Zypher I love overwriting most things from Word. Mostly screenshots and spreadsheets.
 
@ShaneMadden yeah, I like inlining my screenshots into Word too. It makes it easier for everyone else.
 
The software is there to empower the user - everybody knows that empowerment is a good thing. Why shouldn't it also empower users to break as much as they possibly can?
@Holocryptic we are using OTRS as the ticketing system - it is able to render HTML mails but of course no Word documents. Our users keep sending us mails with screenshots in Word attachments without any hint in mail body or subject what it is about - so we've lost track one time or the other.
 
Haha, that's awesome.
 
1:07 AM
Got to leave - bed time. Good night everyone.
 
Laters
 
 
1 hour later…
2:12 AM
I'm impressed - my wife is smoking through the faces… knows more than I do :)
 
2:28 AM
Some of those are really hard
 
 
2 hours later…
3:59 AM
 
4:21 AM
I hate to saturate chat with pics but I know people will appreciate this.
 
 
4 hours later…
8:07 AM
0
Q: How to warehouse data that is not needed from MS SQL server

I__I have been asked to truncate a large table in MS SQL Server 2008. The data is not needed but might be needed once every two years. It will NEVER have to be changed, only viewed. The question is, since I don't need the data on a day-to-day basis, what do I do with it to protect and back it up? ...

Checkout TT's comment, the phone now runs SQL#
 
G'day
 
good morning
 
8:26 AM
Hi all!
 
hi @bart
 
How is everyone ?
 
@Iain Sick, ugh
 
not too bad thank you, and you? About to head into a departmental meeting and talk about wikis
 
@BartDeVos man sniffles ?
@RobMoir for reasons unknown I'm knackered today
 
8:29 AM
I blame late night SF chat
 
@Iain Jep, with an ear infection to top it all off
 
I could use an early night myself!
 
fun times
 
hope you feel better soon then @bartdevos, got to hate feeling sad like that :-(
meeting time, cya laters
 
@RobMoir Thanks
 
Bring in the hammer!
 
The hammer has been wielded
 
yay! \o/
 
9:24 AM
Is that hammer more Thor or more Timmy Mallet?
(morning)
 
somewhere in the middle if it's me
 
Ah, Timmy Mallet with Thor's hammer. Messy.
 
█▬
 
Woo. Accepted answer on an answer which doesn't actually answer the question. serverfault.com/questions/334047/disable-or-remove-apc/…
 
@TomOConnor it's a better solution though :)
 
9:28 AM
@Iain Totally. Nobody should ever remove APC.. That said, nobody should use PHP either.
 
@Chopper3. That one actually looks like Mario's from Donkey Kong.
 
that's better
 
+4 to Banning.
 
@SmallClanger again, that's about right
 
9:50 AM
We're moving offices in feb and I'm figuring out how much cooling our new comms room will need. Would it be ok if I posted a "Check my working" question, or would that invite too much discussion?
 
pfo
10:01 AM
i find it sad that we cant discuss these things at SF ...
two years ago you could do that
 
on a Gartner call -yawn-
 
pfo
@Chopper3 comes with the fame, right? ;)
 
I think it's for the better, personally
I see SF as a magical place where google will take you
 
@pfo part of some report they're writing about enterprise adoption of non-VMWare hypervisors - short call
 
10:45 AM
Herrow World
 
howdy
 
I would like this week to end
I have too miss the seminar I was due to attend on Friday regarding cloud computing and VMWare :(
 
what was the conclusion about non-VMWare hypervisors? We're quite interested in what MS are promising for windows server 8's version of hyperv. That might well be "good enough" for us
 
I'm sufficiently interested in HV, Xen, KVM, OVM etc. to keep an eye on them but their cost benefits don't outweigh the flexibility and depth of toolset that vSphere does yet, but I'm still watching that segment closely
 
11:04 AM
yep that's about where I see it, though I doubt I know the area as well as you do.
I'm interested in what hyperV is promising in the next version but promises of jam tomorrow isn't any help today.
I suspect in the public sector and with our budgets being squeezed, I probably define "cost effective" different from you, too @chopper3
I know quite a few colleges that are using Xen and seem happy. The other stuff seems to be very much minimal
 
@RobMoir Our choice of Hyper-V comes down to cost vs benefit.
 
pfo
@Chopper3 i think that the hypervisors will be largely irrelevant in 2-3 years time frame
 
The nice features of our HV clusters haven't cost the earth (as we're educational) and we don't have a need for most of the nice features VMWare offers (Despite my desire we use it)
 
pfo
the managment solutions and the ecosystem are the thing that you can sell
i wouldn't be surprised if intel implemented one and shipped it preloaded with the CPUs
 
@ITHedgeHog we're educational too but we need vmotion and storage vmotion
If Microsoft can get their windows 8 version of hyperv to where vmware are now (or even where they were with 4.1) then we can probably switch to hyperv
@pfo I agree... Microsoft and VMware give the hypervisor away and sell you tools to manage them
 
pfo
11:19 AM
yes, and this trend will continue
dunno if you could do one in EFI
 
Not to mention they might get more licence sales from guest OSes too
we do use hyperV for developer environments
 
pfo
it is stuff like orchestrator and site recovery manager that you can do big bucks with.
i'm wondering why vmware is not in the storage virtualization business already
do all the stuff that SVC or datacore & co can do at the VMFS or VM level
but i guess EMC is telling them to stfu about that
 
well EMC own them so they are trying to commodtise the server and OS and get yo spending big bucks on storage and management tools
Microsoft are also happy to make the server hardware a commodity and get you spending more money on OS licences instead
 
pfo
clear as daylight i'd say
but vmware could still reign supreme at the SMB level
and you'd only go the EMC directly to buy scale out stuff or the big iron legacy products
 
 
1 hour later…
12:29 PM
 
 
1 hour later…
1:42 PM
Sometimes I love Microsoft Support, others I just wish I'd never spoken too them
 
2:11 PM
Wheee. sign off on a DL-380. (Hardware glee)
 
3:00 PM
@pfo intel do that already - their chips (and AMD's) do 99% of the heavy lifting of the actual virtualisation these days anyway - obviously they don't provide a means to do the more advanced functionality and that's where vmware etc come in, as does the varience in offering
@pfo orchestrator's a bit rubbish but it's free with VC, cloud director is miles better but spendy - I think SRM's very well priced tbh
@SmallClanger specs please
 
@pfo Zenworks Orchestrator?
Quick people! What arcane magic is necessary to make sendmail understand username+detail@example.com addressing?
 
@Chopper3 G7, 1 * E5649, 12GB + 8 * 300GB 15k SAS.
 
3:16 PM
3x4GB or 6x2GB?
 
nice spec
w2k8r2?
is it your first iLO3 box? it's SOOOO much nicer than previous versions
 
No, it'll be debian on the OS, we're centralising some MySQL analytics work on it. It will be the first iLO3, though. Our c3000 is on iLO2. Looking forward to taking a look at the new one.
 
3:31 PM
If you ever feel the need to clear the screen in chat (perhaps to make it sfw then just run this javascript:void($('#chat').empty()) in you browser's javascript console
 
hey guys!
 
ice wraiths in skyrim are BITCHES
 
@Shads0 Meh, I'm a nord, I just use them to keep my drinks cool.
 
I am too >.> still f&#$ me up at 15 if I don't pay attention
 
True. Hard to spot coming, as well.
Oh, if you're still at 15, you might not have the lvl 3 unrelenting force shout, yet. I recommend getting that. It's basically force push. Hilarious when chucking bandits off mountains.
 
3:53 PM
@SmallClanger Or spooking horses
Hey @Basil
Also, Happy Turkey Day, bitches
 
Rubbish, the booze is cheaper in Skyrim.
 
@pauska Shit you not, I've had that happen to me. Except he asked if the Outlook server was down
 
we had a somewhat similar situation today
one of the managers screamed at support, saying that mails from other co-workers didnt arrive to him.. we checked the exchange logs, and could clearly see that it was delivered to his inbox
 
He had it sorted incorrectly, I bet...
 
4:01 PM
turns out that he has 367543146351 different outlook rules to automatically place mails into separate folders, and he claims to have full control of them, and that the problem must lie elseware
so thats pretty much where we are right now.. he's confident that there is something wrong with the server.
 
Riiiiiiight
 
one of the techs told him to remove the suspected rule, and see if that sorts the problem.. we havent heard from the guy since :p
 
Disable all rules. Send test message. Declare PEBKAC and victory. Leave field of battle.
 
Right. Off for food. See ya in a bit
 
4:06 PM
have a good one
 
Does anyone know of any good sites where I could get an up to date analysis of enterprise class SSD performance? I've been under the assumption for years that they're great for random reads, ok for sequential reads (compared to spinning disk), and the same or slightly worse than spinning disk for writes.
I've been told by 4 vendors over the last week that their disks are fast at writing
 
Look in the archives on the sf blog. I think they have some benchmarks there
 
Any Linux / HAproxy guys here to give some advice? (Not so much HAProxy config.. more linux general question!)
 
You'd get better luck asking a question on the main site.
 
@Holocryptic The issue is that the benchmarks are on the OEM SSDs, where I'm looking to see how they perform when they're used by, for example, HDS or EMC in an array
 
4:19 PM
@WilliamHilsum Hey Wil. SF.Chat tends to pick up around 7pm, although there's less work/sensible discussion and it tends to lean towards memes. And ponies. Lots of ponies.
 
@Holocryptic Thanks, its just a bit awkward for the main site/easier to explain in dialog than a question...
@tombull89 Lol... You escaped Super User as well!?
... Trying to learn Linux all this week and I just seem to be getting no where very fast :(
 
Damn mobile browser makes it hard to respond to people...
 
@WilliamHilsum chuckle, yeah, I've been spending a lot of time on my "trilogy" (m.SO, SF, SU). First two more, really.
 
@basil you haven't been able to find any independently verified benchmarks?
 
@Holocryptic The only independent benchmarks are SPC, and those are for the whole machine. I'm more looking for something that states "SSDs come in two flavors- those that read quickly and those that write quickly" or something like it.
 
4:29 PM
I could be wrong but I would think that reads and writes would be very similar. You could ask @chopper3 hes got pretty good insight on large scale hardware things
 
@Basil EMC has a whitepaper on how they broke the world IOPS record with a huge SSD build
 
@WilliamHilsum nuclear physics next week and rocket engineering the week after then ?
 
what's the question?
 
Ssd performance in arrays
@basil is the one looking
 
@pauska I'm curious about sequential writes, though. Not IOPS.
 
4:35 PM
@Basil I don't have any numbers, but EMC claims that you would save money by buying a SSD array from them compared to the amount of disks you'd need for the same sequential iops
let me check our VNX, maybe I can fish out the real model number
afaik it's samsung SLC
 
Oh, that would be very helpful :) I could try and find a benchmark on the actual SSD OEM
And yeah, EMC's SSD for sub lun tiering is what we're considering
 
FAST Cache or tiering?
(we're using fast cache)
 
fast cache first
tiering is all about iops, and we know ssd goes fast on random small block io
 
we went the fast cache only route.. atleast for now
fast cache + 10k + 7,2k
im a bit unhappy about the tiering.. it puts all new data on the slowest media, and then moves it up after a while.. I think it should have been the other way around
we had to pin certain luns to the 10k disks to get out of trouble when doing large new datasets etc
looks like they've hidden the vendor.. ill put up a screenshot so that you can dig for whatever you want
ok it's samsung.. "SAMSUNG SS160510 CLAR100"
"In October 2010 - Samsung said it is shipping 200GB 3.5" SATA SLC SSDs to EMC. Sequential R/W speeds are 260MB/s and 245MB/s respectively. R/W IOPS are 47,000 and 29,000. The new Samsung SSDs have an 'end-to-end data integrity' function and encryption."
 
thanks!
And yeah, 260 MB/s is faster than a 6GB SAS drive at 10 or 15k RPM
 
4:43 PM
no idea if those are the ssd's we got here, we bought this san a few months ago
 
I'm trying to diagnose an unexplained restart..
I found something like this in my /var/log/secure: userhelper[11958]: running '/sbin/halt' with root privileges on behalf of 'root'
Is there any way to track down why this 'userhelper' was calling '/sbin/halt'?
 
@robinhoode: look at the upper right corner of this chat
 
Ah, gotcha..
I posted a question earlier.. serverfault.com/questions/334507/…
Should I post another?
 
Only if its a diiferent question
Don't double post
 
edit your question with the information you just gave us
cause your question is half way of being closed as it doesnt give enough information
 
4:47 PM
Well, adding that information would be pretty much be changing it's content entirely.
 
So I'm reading through that storagesearch link you send me. I'd avoided them because I thought it was another astroturf blog
but it looks like there's some good info in there
 
Well is it related to the problem you're trying to solve?
 
thanks pauska!
 
@Holocryptic It is related, but I'm not 100% familiar with the rules about what is "related" and what is a "new question".. Also, I'd probably have to rewrite the title, rewrite the question itself, etc.
 
np mate.. good luck. Just keep in mind that FAST Cache doesnt help much if you got 600GB of data thats being constantly written/read (unless you have 12 ssd's wich totals in 600GB of cache).. you'd be better off with ssd's in tiering or as a separate array
@robinhoode No, it would not
Your original question basically states "My car broke down. What is wrong with it?"
if you updated it, it would be "My Car broke down, and there is oil dripping from the cylinder. What could the reason be?"
which one do you think is easier to help you with?
 
4:51 PM
I haven't read the question but if it's that vague then you'd be doing everyone a favor by modifying it and adding relevant info
 
@pauska You're absolutely correct, but I feel that changing the question at this point, given that it's already got 4 different answers, will not attract much attention.
 
@robinhoode Wrong. Editing it will bump it up on the question list.
 
@pauska We'd probably use both.
 
I dunno, I'll give it a shot. Or maybe re-ask another time.
 
Editing your question as it relates to X is fine. Editing question regarding X to then talk about issue Y is not good. You should be fine.
 
4:55 PM
@robinhoode It doesnt matter if you re-ask later, someone will find the old question, even if it's asked by a different account, and refer you to it
 
@Iain haha... well, not quite!
 
@Holocryptic Yeah, that's what I'm saying. My previous question was about "potential intruders". This is more about diagnosing why a particular process was called. The overlap isn't very large (to me at least).
 
@Chopper3 I just have to get a proof of concept working with HAproxy both load balancing and fault tolerance against two web servers - I think I am finally there... it was an error extracting the TAR, so, it explains why it was failing the build!
and... learning Linux, I am getting there - just slower than I would like (I'm not exactly a noob, but, been trying to master it for ages, this is the excuse I need!)
 
sorry - dropped out - as usual this SSD argument falls on into the 'it depends' pile
 
@Chopper3 how so?
 
5:01 PM
one sec
if you have a fixed, pre-known LUN that you know needs either amazing random read on or pretty good random write then they're right, a pair of SSDs will be cheaper (depending on discount level) than a bunch of 15k's - also bear in mind the disk-striping aspects of your array, many won't stripe a LUN over more than say 8 disks
if the LUN's smaller than the available space on that 8 disk block - meaning that if you have say 200GB of high-write data on an array with 128 x 300GB 15k's your data may still only ever be served by just 8 of them - understand? Now if it's being used to dynamically move high-traffic blocks/clusters from slower disks this is ALWAYS a good thing as long as you've got enough ssd to cover this high-traffic data anyway.
if you have a fixed, pre-known LUN that you need either amazing random read on or pretty good random write then they're right, a pair of SSDs will be cheaper (depending on discount level) that a bunch of 15k's - also bear in mind the disk-striping aspects of your array, many won't stripe a LUN over more than say 8 disks if the LUN's smaller than the available space on that 8 disk block
- meaning that if you have say 200GB of high-write data on an array with 128 x 300GB 15k's your data may still only ever be served by just 8 of them - understand? Now if it's being used to dynamically move high-traffic blocks/clusters from slower disks this is ALWAYS a good thing as long as you've got enough ssd to cover this high-traffic data anyway.
 
hold up
 
chopper, your post is jumping around and changing.. whats going on
i was in the middle of it and suddenly everything changed
 
so yes, I agree with a lot of what you put there, but the only way we'd need SSDs for our OLTP workload is with something that automatically moves data between tiers. That said:
 
it was too long - I had to cut'n'paste it in (badly) and I spotted a few typos
@Basil exactly - we use that extensively - it's fricking cool
 
I'm actually trying to find out the merits of using SSDs as a high speed controller cache extension for sequential writes
I was always under the impression that SSDs were best used as read-mostly devices
 
5:04 PM
@Basil: I'm not so sure FAST Cache will help on sequential writes..
 
I can't believe all I needed was "apt-get install haproxy" and I have it :( Now to configure it and hopefully all good!
 
ignoring 7.2k for the moment we have about 66% 10k's, 30% 15ks and the remainder in SSD
 
@pauska no, I suppose not. There is a Netapp cache extension thingie that does though
 
@Basil NetApp doesnt cache writes on flash, unless they've suddenly updated it
 
@pauska it depends how often it's written to, it needs to clear that cache, which is 'expensive'
 
5:05 PM
@pauska that's what they were saying to us
 
@pauska they can now (I think)
 
The way I understand it is that FAST Cache identifies hot spots in your arrays, and redirects read/write to the fast cache
 
I'm trying to find the name of the feature- 2 sec
 
@Chopper3 oh ok. They couldnt a few months ago.
 
you know I'm never very good at knowing what's actually announced/available these days
 
5:06 PM
large sequential writes are usually new data
but for OLTP I'd rather build a tier with SSD+15k+10k
 
@Chopper3 I'm researching a storage refresh
I'll let you know if I find anything cool :)
 
That's be kind of you
 
@pauska We do a lot of everything. OLTP, batch, mainframe, open system
 
@basil: just make sure if EMC can switch the tiering policy up-side down for you.. you don't want the new logs to hit the bottom tier..
@Basil: Then use FAST cache for everything except the OLTP logs :)
 
@pauska Honestly, I dont think they're going to win. There's bad blood here
 
5:08 PM
what are you looking and what's your budget
oh and what interfaces do you want
@Basil with netapp? you wouldn't be the first ;)
 
@pauska We use them extensively for regional offices with modular systems, and their support has been borderline criminally incompetent.
@Chopper3 no, with EMC
@Chopper3 Netapp knows that they need to bring it, so they've been extremely good about the NAS we installed.
 
I'm starting to wish that we went with netapp
I'm guessing that you both read my question about the SAN being covered in construction dust..
 
@Chopper3 We're a petabyte shop with a mainframe, and we have a RPO and RTO of seconds.
 
EMC hinted today that we might have to buy all the licenses for the SAN if we're going to get a new one through insurence
 
@pauska No, actually- I havent been keeping up to date on questions. That sounds funny though :)
 
5:11 PM
such arrogance is new to me..
 
@pauska You should hint to them that you can use your insurance money to buy anything.
 
@Basil already done
 
@Basil really? No fan of netapp sorry
 
the EMC consultants arent a bit friendlier either
 
@Chopper3 I dont pick sides, but they impressed me
 
5:12 PM
they estimated 27 hours installation time for the basic install
 
@Basil we're multi-PB too but your RPO is staggering
 
they sat here for 7 hours, where 3 of them were spent troubleshooting the installer because they used a incorrect timezone
 
@Chopper3 that said, they dont do mainframe or low RPO or RTOs
 
and they REFUSE to give us any kind of rebate, or transforming the remainer hours to other projects
 
what version of ontap? it's that thay bothers me, if you actually get under the hood it's like working on a circa-2001 version of BSD
 
5:14 PM
@Chopper3 Hey, that isn't necessary bad :)
 
@pauska That sense of arrogance and profit-taking is what's caused them to lose some traction chez nous. Even the storage team lead who worked there for 5 years
 
@pauska well if you WILL insist on living at the north pole or whereever you are...
 
@Chopper3 The newest one. Apparently they dont need a fractional reserve for their LUNs any more
 
@Chopper3 offer me a job and I'll come
 
looked at 3Par?
 
5:15 PM
@Chopper3 Yes, but we're on the XP24000 now and 3par again does only open systems
 
I thought NetApp was out of the competition once you mention OLTP
 
@Chopper3 If we separate our mainframe, then the competition would widen to include solutions like 3par
@pauska the benchmarks they put out on the 6200 with SAP are fine.
@pauska And it would let us have 10 staging environments for much less than we currently pay
 
@Basil you're on FICON?
 
@Chopper3 for the mainframe yes
 
narrows the market somewhat then ;)
 
5:18 PM
@Chopper3 only if we dont separate the mainframe. Our policy for years has been no growth on the mainframe. ever.
 
last time I touched FICON was simply for one of my cisco storage certs - been YEARS since I've had to properly deal with it
 
so an entry level symmetrix or something plus a large open systems only offering
 
P9500?
 
that's one option
 
does thinning but not the tier-hopping
 
5:20 PM
the mainframe wouldnt use anything like that
only open systems
 
how about Compellent?
 
theyre a little niche, but we've arranged to meet them
 
their tiering is awesome
but no SSD's when we met them some months ago
 
@SmallClanger Already have that and the first word of ice and fade
 
brb a sec
so anyways, SSD is still read-mostly storage as far as you're all concerned?
 
5:22 PM
found out today that a military bit of [main client] is the biggest user of symantec netbackup anywhere - funny what goes on right under your nose
 
no groundbreaking "use our SSD as write cache" announcements you know of?
Ok, the tech that was described to me was "flash cache" from netapp (essentially the PAM 2 card)
the issue is that the guy explaining it to us claimed that it would help us on sequential writes
where netapp normally sucks balls.
they bill it as random small block IO on their site, though
 
as all cache are really
and I see that they only mention reads.. make really sure that it supports writing (as I said, it didnt a few months back)
 
yup, I need to confirm that with my manager. He's asking why I keep saying things like "SSD is only really better than disk for reads"
aside from "because I said so, and get back to work", there's not much I can say
unless I have a whitepaper
 
well.. SLC nand disks usually have higher throughput than 15k's, but they are also a lot more expensive
you have to do the math on your own.. power usage etc :P
 
pfo
@Basil the netapp PAM card does NO writes at all
u have to get a SSD shelf to absorb writes on SSDs with netapp
 
5:35 PM
@pfo They're claiming otherwise
 
pfo
well i have some PAM cards here ;)
 
@pfo so I need to clarify it and get it in writing :P
@pfo we're looking at the new ones, they call them "flash cache" now.
 
pfo
same thing
PAM2 card
aka "flash cache"
u can read that in any netapp paper that PAM2/flash cache doesnt do writes
really - it doesn't make sense to use ssds for sequential access
 
that was one of the large factors why we went for EMC
 
pfo
yeah, but EMCs storage architecture is totally different so i guess for them it makes sense to do SSD write caching
 
5:38 PM
@pfo that's what I thought, too...
 
pfo
the NVLOG device in a netapp can perfectly fine absorb random write IO and pass sequential writes to RAID-DP which can do sequential writes quite nicely if it has enough free space
 
anyways, I think I have the research I need now. Thanks guys :)
@pfo not as well as another type of array, though
 
pfo
remember that RAID-DP is always a full-stride write since WALF can wait until it can do a that
yeah, i would never intend to run a netapp for high sequential IO
they suck balls at that - weak CPUs and all that.
 
@pfo The man reason we'd want them is that they could help us avoid one of the most common sources of large sequential jobs: vmware VM creations
 
pfo
but their E series is really nice for seq block access
quite cheap and high performance
 
5:40 PM
@pfo they arent still using cheap CPUs in the 6200 are they?
 
pfo
not only there :P
most of the gear is still Xeon 54XXs
so 3 year old CPUs
 
that's the only one we'd consider :\
hey, xeon is used by symmetrix
nothing wrong with xeons in storage
 
pfo
yeah, but symmetrix has ASICS
netapp doesn't
 
it's the celerons that weird me out
 
pfo
but the celerons just run the web interface and all that crap
 
5:42 PM
I meant in the low end netapps
 
pfo
the real work is done in a dedicated application specific integrated circuit
the low end parts are not even real netapps
spiced up single controller design with nvlog sync over 1G ethernet!
no dedicated iWARP/10GE interconnect
 
ok, I need to run for a bit. Thanks all for your help, and I'll be back in a bit
 
pfo
as on FAS32XX and FAS62XX
 
our vnx is stuffed with xeon cpu's
cant remember wich ones right now
 
pfo
yeah, but again - this is not for the RAID part of it
 
pfo
w00t
i so love SAS on the backend ports(in comparison to FC-AL)
 
doesn't scale for clustering though :(
that said I am an FC-geek
 
pfo
here same
but on the front end ports you really only want FC switched fabric
on the back end you want SAS
 
off now - 'night
 
pfo
night!
 
00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

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