TRPG General Chat

NautArch

10:00 PM

I like that answer :)

Although it seems like I should necro the related question and answer it. Touch shouldn't work through the illusion.

Karelzarath

No, it totally should.

It's just that Adam's arguing that you need to target the creature and not the spell.

LegendaryDude

Touch should. The spell originates as if you were standing where the illusion is.

That's one of the benefits of the spell.

GreySage

@LegendaryDude That's basically the whole point of the spell

LegendaryDude

@GreySage Well, yes. But it also lets you extend your range for any spell you can cast. I count that as a separate benefit, but I guess being able to touch through the illusion is also a range increase.

Karelzarath

So, thought experiment time: Caster or illusion is 80' from you (you don't know which) and the other is 40' away. If the caster's over 60' away, does the Counterspell reaction trigger? If so, does it automatically fail? If not, does that immediately tell you which is real?

LegendaryDude

10:06 PM

"You attempt to counterspell but your magic doesn't respond. Suddenly, you realize the one closer to you is the imposter!"

Karelzarath

But would you even be able to attempt it? Because you haven't met the reaction condition.

GreySage

@Karelzarath If the caster is >60', i'd say the Counterspell triggers, but has no effect. If the caster is <60', the Counterspell happens normally

LegendaryDude

Rules-wise you don't cast the spell

I'm providing an associated (as opposed to dissociated) reason why it would happen that way in the fiction

So you, being a wizard, see this guy cast a spell. You want to counterspell it but when you draw on your power, there is nothing there; no magic in range with which to hit your counterspell.

Shalvenay

hey @Karelzarath @GreySage @LegendaryDude @NautArch @nitsua60

Karelzarath

@Shalvenay sup?

Shalvenay

10:10 PM

not a whole lot, waiting for answers on my question re: pike/maul/greatclub weights (or for a tweet to be directed Jeremy Crawford's direction if need be)

also, wondering how to play out a courtroom narrative that involves issues of law while keeping it interesting and accessible to the audience

(ISTM that the archetype of courtroom drama centers around issues of fact, which are handled quite differently from issues of law, at least in the US system)

GreySage

@LegendaryDude So you would rule that the Wizard can sense that there is no actual magic to thwart, and thus wouldn't use his own resources.

LegendaryDude

@GreySage He can't sense magic.

Karelzarath

@LegendaryDude Rules-wise, does it burn your reaction or not? Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm just trying to feel out how 5e runs.

LegendaryDude

No

You don't ever get the reaction to begin with

Karelzarath

That was my thought.

Anaphory

10:13 PM

@Shalvenay Oh, interesting.

(Not that I have anything to contribute, but just the question is something I haven't really considered before my Courtroom Drama session yesterday.)

LegendaryDude

DM: Sir Tricktenstein is casting a spell. (rolls dice)
Wiz: I want to use my reaction to counterspell.
DM: You attempt to counterspell but your magic doesn't respond. You realize this is an imposter! (no reaction is used)

CTWind

I might say it follows the illegal targeting guidelines and would use the reaction but no spell slot.

LegendaryDude

You can't use the reaction if the trigger doesn't actually occur

CTWind

It's weird with reactions with a trigger that didn't really happen though. So I'm kind of open to almost any outcome :-P

LegendaryDude

That'd be like saying, out of turn, "I make an opportunity attack," when no enemy has moved to trigger it and losing your reaction

Zachiel

10:17 PM

@LegendaryDude Are you telling me I can't waste an opportunity attack on an illusion?

LegendaryDude

@Zachiel No.

The 5e mantra: rulings over rules.

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Find an audience that already listens to SCOTUS oral arguments in their free time.

Karelzarath

lol

Anaphory

@nitsua60 By anlaogy with … POTUS, which I have seen a few times recently for some reason, that's … Supreme Court o't'US?

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 hahahaha xD

Karelzarath

10:24 PM

@Shalvenay Yeah, not sure you can really do both for most players. IMC, I'd do something like: Argument, counterargument, rebuttal, rebuttal, dice rolls with modifiers for the persuasiveness of the arguments, decision by the judge(s).

Shalvenay

@Anaphory indeed

Karelzarath

Unless all the players were really into the whole thing. Then, add detail and draw it out.

Shalvenay

yeah -- part of it is that the court case is something the party is involved in while they're dealing with other stuff, too xD it's not the only thing on their plates

(which could get interesting if the party is doing the lawyering themselves instead of retaining local counsel)

Anaphory

@Shalvenay Do you have examples from fiction where it's about the law, not about the facts?

Shalvenay

@Anaphory not off-hand, no. I've only run into a few fictional examples, and they've all been fact-centric

Karelzarath

10:28 PM

@Anaphory Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney

Shalvenay

(mostly the classics though, I did study To Kill A Mockingbird and Twelve Angry Men in school)

doppelgreener

I got to add a fun ironic note after the first paragraph of this question while cleaning up D&D Tools links.

9

Q: Reproduction of copyrighted content by website users

TL:DR Do I need to restrict users of my site from contributing RPG content that is copyrighted (non-OGL)? Or is there some way to allow the reproduction of such content by users (or even by the whole site) -- such as by a disclaimer or copyright statements -- without endangering the site? As it ...

Karelzarath

@doppelgreener lol, that's awesome.

nitsua60

Yeah, there's POTUS, VPOTUS, SCOTUS, FLOTUS. I've never heard any others than those.

Anaphory

Federal what?

Ah. First.

Karelzarath

10:35 PM

Fort Lauderdale of the United States

THiebert

First Lady

user15026

What's SCOTUS?

nitsua60

Supreme Court.

Karelzarath

Supreme Court of the United States

user15026

Ah, I should have scrolled up :P

Anaphory

10:36 PM

I must have been primed by the SCOTUS and law, thinking “Federal … Law?”

nitsua60

TIL: SCOTUS originated in a dictionary of telegraph abbreviations =) (source)

Karelzarath

@nitsua60 flags @nitsua60's answer as incomplete

user15026

@nitsua60 Huh, neat.

nitsua60

@Karelzarath ???

Karelzarath

Just messing with you.

nitsua60

10:38 PM

@Karelzarath Thought that might be some sort of [citation needed] poke...

So I did.

@LegendaryDude even though my answer's getting no love (which hurts, 'cause I think the proposed method is so good and so simple) I hope it helps.

The big thing I've learned from the half-dozen times I've devised die-methods to simulate other die-methods: If you have a vague idea of what the true distribution is supposed to look like you can very quickly improv a roll to simulate it and not be very far off. Get the mean right, get the vague outline of the right shape, make sure you are including results within one sigma and not outside of three...

THiebert

@nitsua60 i loved it

nitsua60

...get all that in five seconds, and it's hard to be more than a 5 percent off at any point.

@THiebert shucks. =)

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 -- btw, it seems we may have need of some tweeting to be done

nitsua60

@THiebert you might like this one, then. Personally, it's my favorite.

@Shalvenay ???

Shalvenay

or am I asking the wrong ~~bird~~ sheep to tweet on my behalf? (got something for which the only apparent answer is to wrap it up, send it to Crawford, and see if he responds)

nitsua60

10:46 PM

@Shalvenay ~~I'm not a twit.~~ ~~I don't twut.~~ You're asking the wrong guy.

Shalvenay

oh, sorry :)

THiebert

@nitsua60 interesting

Zachiel

@Shalvenay I read that as needing some twisting to be done. My character (depicted in my avatar) would have been really fine with that.

nitsua60

I just started to twitch, apparently, thank you D&DBeyond.

Shalvenay

should I just slap a 50rep bounty on it with a "plz tweet @ Jeremy Crawford" note attached?

THiebert

10:47 PM

Approximates it in a single roll, but it's so complex, I don't think anyone would remember that rule at a table

@shalvenay, the weight question?

Shalvenay

@THiebert yup. Word of God is the only thing that'll do, sadly

THiebert

Would history not be acceptable?

for example, if every edition of DnD had weighted those or similar weapons quite heavily, could a reasonable answer be made from that assumption? or are designer quotes entirely necessary?

CTWind

Mearls might also be the right call for that one- Crawford's the rules guy but things like item weight seem more like a general design choice.

Shalvenay

@CTWind that could be

CTWind

Or maybe a random intern at WOTC. Not sure who holds the esteemed title of Item Weight Declarer.

Shalvenay

10:59 PM

@THiebert -- history would be a distant second considering the fragmented design history of D&D

do you folks think the "how to make courtroom story-arcs involving matters of law interesting to the players?" question is worth tossing on the mainsite btw?

nitsua60

"How to make interesting" seems like it's going to be hard to vote on the answers; it's too close to pure idea-generation IMO. Go back to basics: describe the trouble you're having making them interesting and what resources/constraints you're working with.

Shalvenay

yeah, that's definitely a concern from a mainsite-question standpoint

this may be a case where the only starting point is trial and error :P

nitsua60

Oh, I assumed that was the case. If you haven't tried it and failed, then your problem isn't that you need to make the arcs more interesting, your problem is that you're worried they won't be interesting.

Which problem I don't think mainsite can handle.

Karelzarath

11:26 PM

@Shalvenay Though unworthy of being an answer, my feeling is that the intent was to simulate bulk to keep adventurers from hauling around dozens of them and stretching credulity.

AKA "for balance reasons"

Shalvenay

@Karelzarath yeah, the suspicion I have is they reinvented dimensional weight :P

Dimensional weight

Dimensional weight, also known as volumetric weight, is a pricing technique for commercial freight transport (including courier and postal services), which uses an estimated weight that is calculated from the length, width and height of a package. == Significance == Shipping costs have historically been calculated on the basis of gross weight in kilograms or pounds. By charging only by weight, lightweight, low density packages become unprofitable for freight carriers due to the amount of space they take up in the truck/aircraft/ship in proportion to their actual weight. The concept of dimensional...

Karelzarath

makes the forked sign and hisses

We hates dim weight, precious.

doppelgreener

0

Q: Is there anything like Ring of Arming in 5e?

I can't seem to find anything like 3.5e's Ring of Arming (equips/unequips items as a standard action on activation), which is quite useful. Is there a similar item in 5e or am I doomed to get caught without my heavy armor one of these days?

dnd-5e magic-items

Ring of Arming: grants things more arms.

nitsua60

@Shalvenay I'd take a close look at 2e Arms & Equipment to see how well weapon weights track.

Shalvenay

@Karelzarath well, at least I can understand why carriers charge it -- there's only so much room on the truck to go around :P

@nitsua60 sadly, I don't have one of those at hand

Karelzarath

11:30 PM

@Shalvenay Yeah, but it adds so much complexity to box packing calculations.

Shalvenay

@Karelzarath yeah -- I think the easiest way to do it would be simply "dimensional weight is volume times X, use the greater of real weight or dimensional weight"

nitsua60

@Karelzarath having worked too long loading and unloading FedEx trucks, I can tell you that weight doesn't matter. Once, in hundreds of thousands of packages, did I take note of a thing's weight. (Turns out it was the rear differential for a Ford truck.)

Miniman

@Shalvenay Actually, I suspect that they just didn't care enough to spend any time coming up with a realistic weight. I'm pretty sure Mearls has stated somewhere that he basically doesn't care about encumbrance.

trogdor

@doppelgreener huh, I thought that the thing that gave you more arms was the (something) of the Girallion

Miniman

@trogdor It is, that was a joke.

trogdor

11:33 PM

maybe even like, just a spells called Blessing of

Shalvenay

@Miniman which'd lean to my other thought -- cut the outlier weights in half :P

trogdor

@Miniman ah

Karelzarath

@Shalvenay The worst part is determining if it's cheaper to ship things together or split apart in one of hundreds of possible configurations. Dim weight calculations are key to that.

nitsua60

@Miniman If true, he's dead to me. [brb--have to run all my 5e material through the woodchipper. Back to 2e, everyone!]

doppelgreener

@trogdor i have put 0 research into my assertion of what the ring of arming does

trogdor

11:34 PM

@doppelgreener this is fair, I am having a slow start to the day it seems

doppelgreener

@trogdor [gives ring of caffeination]

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 perhaps I'll have to introduce you to TomMcW over on Aviation (he's a fellow FedEx'er -- used to work the Memphis ramp, now does delivery driving for them over in KS)

trogdor

@doppelgreener lol

nitsua60

@trogdor Me too. And the sun's just set in my neck of the woods =|

Karelzarath

@doppelgreener Does that mean that the ring of disarming makes your arm fall off?

2

doppelgreener

11:35 PM

@trogdor don't wear it past midday

trogdor

@nitsua60 I hope you get a good nights sleep soon then, that usually helps me a lot

doppelgreener

@Karelzarath naturally! or others'. gotta be careful how it's enchanted, or it becomes a use-once item.

trogdor

@doppelgreener it. is. too. late.

you have unleashed a nightmare

XD

Karelzarath

Daymare, surely.

trogdor

(but it still is the morning)

Miniman

11:36 PM

@nitsua60 Ok, I can't find a direct statement, but there's this, at least.

nitsua60

@Karelzarath seems to raise a paradox as to whether you could actually equip it...

doppelgreener

@trogdor well, if it helps, 1pm is also before midday, given flexible choice of the right midday

trogdor

works for me

Karelzarath

@nitsua60 You could, but only briefly.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Also this. So I think it's not like he's ever stated it, it's just an impression I've built up.

nitsua60

11:37 PM

@Miniman [grumble grumble]

Karelzarath

Full disclosure: I have a soft spot for the necklace of strangulation

@Miniman In fairness, how many GMs really track encumbrance that closely?

doppelgreener

nitsua60

@Karelzarath why is it the GM's job?

Karelzarath

@nitsua60 It isn't, but most I've played under tell the players to just ignore it as long as the characters aren't trying to carry something ludicrous, like 22 pikes.

Shalvenay

@Karelzarath I take it said necklace strangles the wearer?

Karelzarath

11:40 PM

@Shalvenay Indeed it does.

Similar to the aptly named boots of walking, which compel the wearer to make an unarmed strike on any prone creatures within their reach.

Because, one day, those boots will walk all over you.

trogdor

@doppelgreener yeah, this kind of thing takes extra clarification

doppelgreener

@Karelzarath that seems like a misleading name

user15026

@doppelgreener That's some awesome ambiguity there

Karelzarath

@doppelgreener How so? Those boots are made for walking.

user15026

Now that song is in my head

Karelzarath

11:45 PM

declares victory

user15026

Man, a lot of people have covered that song.

trogdor

I am pretty sure the first time I heard it was a cover of it

Karelzarath

Some say that song is a fragment of the primal melody used to sing this universe into existence.

Miniman

@Karelzarath Really? Who?

Karelzarath

@Miniman Y'know... them. They. makes vague gestures

doppelgreener

11:51 PM

@Karelzarath well, we'd probably bring up false advertising complaints with the consumer watchdog. we would, but they probably wouldn't exist, due to any attempts at creating one being ultimately destroyed (more or less literally) by testing cursed items.

Miniman

@Karelzarath Oh, them. looks around

trogdor

the same ones who whisper too many character ideas into my brain

Karelzarath

@doppelgreener "We here at Adventurer Reports give the Deck of Many Things a rating of F. Sonja is still trapped in Tartarus, Steve is a lawn ornament, and Mary rode off for her keep with Death itself following her. We cannot recommend this product."

6

trogdor

I have a feeling they would all be wiped out by a Bag of Holding

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