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Ben
12:00 AM
Well from my research, that's likely your best bet.
It follows a high siulationist playstyle
 
@Ben interesting. I believe it may have been either BESW or Greener who actually thought it wouldn't be that great for me b/c it leaves integration ,if you will, up to the table, but with the right DM I suspect that could be overcome
@Ben that's what I've heard about it as well
what other systems should I be looking at as well?
 
Ben
Yeah. I wouldn't go so far to say that it is or even isn't what you're looking for, but it's a system that's open enough that it might suit your needs.
Though I've never had too much experience with it personally.
 
yeah -- it's mostly a matter of finding someone willing and able to DM it for me
hey as well btw @nitsua60
 
Ben
Ahh so you're not looking to run it yourself
 
@Ben no, would rather learn how to play in the system first before I take the plunge and DM something with as many moving parts as GURPS
 
Ben
12:10 AM
That's fair :)
 
maybe DuckTapeAl will have some time sometime soon :)
 
12:36 AM
> I use many different things. I use charcoal pencils. I use colored pencils, pastels. I use a little watercolor sometimes. I use pen and ink, and I use something a little different for each book because that way it is always interesting for me to make the pictures. (2004 interview)
 
@Shalvenay hiya
 
@nitsua60 how're things going?
 
Busier than a one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest, as my dad used to say.
 
@nitsua60 heheh
 
@nitsua60 If I don't miss my mark, you said you might want to chat with me round about nowish, but it sounds like you're busier than expected.
 
Ben
12:48 AM
@BESW Howsit
 
[wave] Hey, what's new?
 
Ben
Not too much. As you might have noticed, I've suggested GURPS for Shalvenay
Though it was suggested that might not be ideal?
 
I don't know much about GURPS, but I am under the impression it's about as much a physics engine as D&D, and that's not good for him.
eg, D&D says "Acid deals X damage" and maybe adds that the damage is halved against stone or something like that. To which Shalv demands to know what acid it is and why there aren't any rules for what happens when you add bleach.
 
Ben
Ahh I see. Well I'm about as knowledgeable about it as a first-time googler, so I'll try get a bit more information. My source might be a bit more knowledgeable and should be able to clear it up.
So @Shalvenay, this might be a bit of an odd question, but is there a specific structure you're basing your knowledge on, (e.g. our own - like earth) or are you just querying the rules to get an understanding of the environment that you're in?
 
I'm of the opinion a good system for him would provide generic tools that let him use his own understanding of the world instead of a set of rules that tries to model it for him.
 
12:57 AM
@Ben I will query the rules first, but I tend to fall back to RL to fill the gaps
 
Ben
@BESW Well correct me if I'm wrong, but if you use a generic system, and @Shalvenay then fills in the gaps, then that would require an open explanation so that everyone would be on the same page? Or am I reading into this the wrong way?
 
No, you're right:
in Not a bar, but plays one on TV, Sep 10 '15 at 4:06, by Shalvenay
@BESW and I do research, to the point where I will expect more research from other players than they are willing to put in
No system will solve all his challenges, but he's hoping to find a system that doesn't actively fight him.
 
Ben
Well one option I'm seeing is that if the group is willing to cooperate, then they can build the "engine" together. Start with an assumption, and build the rules from there
But the problem with that is it takes up game time.
The other option is that @Shalvenay creates it, and then shares with the rest of the group?
 
@BESW I had hoped that by Thursday I'd have some breathing room. I was wrong. (I've got a project for school due Monday, am taking students on an all-day trip on Sunday; had hoped to be pretty-well done with the project during the day today so that I'd be able to do proofing and submitting on Saturday, but that's not there yet.)
 
No worries.
 
1:10 AM
@BESW I think much of it we'v already mentioned, though: I had been wondering if you had thoughts on pacing.)
 
Ben
The other option however @Shalvenay, and not to be a stick in the mud, but sometimes the world just doesn't have that knowledge. For example, in the era in which D&D is primarily based, "magic" is the most common answer for most questions that don't have a better one.
"What sort of acid is it?" "It's Centipede acid" "But what happens when I add bleach to it?" "...what's bleach?"
 
@Ben right -- but that then puts a ton of pressure on your magic system to explain things
 
Ben
@Shalvenay Not really.
"Why'd that happen?" "Magic!" "Ok, but what sort of magic?" "Magical magic?"
 
In-character ignorance is not, in Shalv's view, the same as the world actually not operating according to quantifiable principles.
 
@BESW exactly
 
1:21 AM
He expects a setting where organising principles of physics/magic/whatever exist and are internally rigorous, regardless of the extent to which they're known by the world's inhabitants.
And he operates on the assumption that a game's rules about magic will reflect those organising principles.
...I'd like to see him in an Ars Magica game.
 
@BESW yeah -- that could work. (I tried reading the handbook for it once -- had trouble digesting the lore, but I suspect that if I was introduced to the system in a more practical fashion, it'd work OK)
 
Did I ever link you the article "Tropes, Facts and Empiricism" by Daryn Lehoux?
I thought of you back when I first read it.
 
I think you did, and I may have read it, but not particularly thoroughly
 
It's... informative toward some of the underlying challenges you face, I think. Not a solution, but another angle to look at the problem from.
 
Ben
1:38 AM
Again, magic, while for the most part fundamentally understood, is not completely comprehendible. Like science. We know what goes into a certain chemical, and we know how it might react to certain objects, but on the same token, we just don't know what else there is in the universe; if we're alone or not; or even why we are the only ones in existence, as far as we can understand. But that's developing into philosophy more than anything
 
Mm, and Shalv is more engineer than mathematician.
(The awesome thing about maths is that if you poke it with a stick it turns into philosophy.)
 
1:55 AM
@Ben yeah -- incompleteness bugs me far less than inconsistency
@BESW exactly
 
 
1 hour later…
3:07 AM
@Miniman I need to pull the trigger on this *Curse of Strahd* character tonight. My goal is melee-centric capable of dealing as much radiant damage as possible, with healing as second priority. I think I'm going with Ftr 1/Cl many. Variant Human with Heavy Armor Master, dueling style, wielding a shield and a war pick (which, like the sun's rays, will pierce your eye). Then Light domain on the cleric side. I haven't actually crunched any numbers on it, but I'm happy with the concept.
A little bummed that it's Life cleric, not Light that grabs the +1d8 radiant damage to weapon attacks at Cl8,
Acolyte background. I'm thinking it's a little like the Robert DeNiro character from "The Mission".
 
Ben
@Shalvenay Well I pity your lack of ignorance haha.
I'll look into it, and then get back to you :)
 
3:33 AM
@nitsua60 Yeah, that bugged me too - I'd prefer to see the choice between "fighting cleric" and "casting cleric" separate to domain.
It's like the arbitrary restrictions on fighting styles for rangers and paladins. Why close off choices?
 
I guess at least in the Ra and Pa cases you could argue the ones choices honor the "flavor" of the class. Here, it's in direct opposition, it'd seem =\
 
hello?
 
@Masakan hiya
 
hey
um
sorry for only coming when i need help but
is there anyway to utilize whips with sneak attack?
 
@Masakan system/edition?
 
3:41 AM
3.5 naturally
dnd
 
sorry, only played one or two sessions of that edition--no help here
 
Ben
Can you give me a situation that you're trying to implement this? And why you think it would/wouldn't work?
 
well i know that there are plenty of ways to leave someoen flat footed
the problem comes when you realize you dont get 3 attacks with whips until way late in the game esspecially if you go for a sneak attack build
so it comes from a lack of damage
while i know i can get at least 3 attacks before level 10 with the help of snap kick
right now this is my class layout which im very happy with right now
Rogue 1
Bard 4
Battle Dancer 1
Bard 4
Virtuoso 10
the only problem comes from lack of damage and attacks
craven fixes the damage part more or less
but it would be so much more viable if i had at least one mroe attack
cause i will just have a full attack of 2 for the longest time
and wont get a 3rd attack until level 18
 
Ben
@Masakan You've got "Bard 4" twice there... is that intentional?
 
its just a level chart
basically getting it at separate interfals
4 levels of bard a break for battle dancer
then back to bard until 11
 
Ben
3:51 AM
Ohh I see.
Forgive my ignorance but why do you need 3 attacks for this?
 
higher damage output
or do i even need it?
 
@Masakan Are you asking about using whips with sneak attacks, or getting more attacks with whips?
 
Ben
Well you can always achieve more damage with more attacks, sure. But a sneak attack has more chance to hit, and depending on your skills/feats, you can even increase the damage that way. However I don't see why an extra attack is so important?
 
i know how to get sneak attack with whips
but is there a way to get more outside of bab progression
 
Ben
More what? Attacks or Damage?
 
3:58 AM
Cast haste on yourself, dual wield, certain feats.
As a bard, casting haste is going to be easiest.
 
Ben
For more attacks, yeah, what Miniman suggested.
 
@Masakan To be completely honest, for 3.5, you're going to find much more help in the guides that litter the internet than here. That's where all the expertise is. For example, for your current problem: giantitp.com/forums/…
 
Ben
For more damage, feats like "Craven", "Deadly Precision" or "Telling blow" might help
 
i know about craven its literally a first level feat for me
and yes i frequent that guide often
but the thing is im trying to figure out of there is a way since whip dagger is like one of the best weapons for bards
or if i should just go for a more traditional fighter build
or rouge weaponry
 
@Masakan In that case, no one who's here is going to be able to tell you anything you haven't already read.
 
4:08 AM
fair enough
i just thought i would ask
 
Ben
No harm in that :)
 
Ben
4:51 AM
Riddle me this...
In 5e, there are rules about what weapons a creature can't use, depending on their size, true?
However there is nothing about what a creature can use - this is only assumed through omission. I.e. it doesn't say that a Medium creature can't wield a greatsword, so therefore there's nothing stopping me.
By that extension, as player characters (RAW) only extend to medium size creatures, weapons like the greatsword must be wielded with 2 hands.
Now following the rules of omission, there's nothing saying that a Large creature can't wield a greatsword with one hand, due to it's size and increased strength (given that the stats still meet the minimum requirements). No?
 
i think that worked in 3.5 as well
 
D&D tends to be an "exception-based" rule system. That means a general rule is true in all cases unless and until a more specific rule defines an exception.
 
@Ben No. There is a rule that says that a greatsword requires two hands to wield.
 
D&D 3.5 talked explicitly about handedness of weapons scaling with the relative size of the weapon to the wielder. If 5e doesn't, then the general handedness rule is probably assumed to be true regardless of relative size--though 5e is also big on the GM handing down ruling exceptions herself to fill in those weird gaps that always arise from play, and this seems like a good opportunity for one.
 
No exceptions to that rule exist.
 
5:08 AM
Then I'd agree, it falls into the realm of GM fiat to say otherwise.
5e seems very content to leave edge cases to GM fiat rather than trying to anticipate them itself.
 
@BESW This isn't really an edge case, though.
@Ben Also, this kind of argument is a little ridiculous:
 
If PCs are typically medium-sized, wouldn't weapons rules for non-medium players be edgy?
 
@BESW Any Large player character is either using something they made up, or a spell with clearly defined effects.
So it's either not an edge case because it's clearly defined, or because it's outside the rules completely.
 
Ben
5:31 AM
@Miniman Well as a basis, I'm using my answer about using the effect of a Growth potion, on my question about this.
A Potion of growth makes you grow a size. Medium to Large as an example. This is RAW
But there's nothing about your capabitlity, or incapability with your equipment.
Not that I've been able to find anyway.
@Miniman although I do appreciate that.
Putting it another way, a Small creature, like a Gnome or Halfling, can't use a greatsword. However, if they were to use a Potion of Growth, they would then be able to, for the duration of the potion's effect
 
@BESW Slashing weapons are edgy. (Piercing weapons are pointy, Bludgeoning weapons are blunt.)
 
Ben
5:46 AM
badum-tss
 
6:13 AM
@Ben It uses the effect of the enlarge/reduce spell, so your weapons deal an extra 1d4 damage.
 
Ben
@Miniman I'm focussing more on the physical capacity, rather than the performance
 
7:03 AM
@Ben I think you're missing my point - that is the effect.
Your weapons are bigger, so they deal an extra 1d4.
 
 
3 hours later…
Ben
9:46 AM
So you're saying that the weapon grows with the character?
 
That is the common assumption.
 
10:49 AM
Tonight's dinner was just pasta and freezer veggies, but I made a sauce of Greek yogurt, garlic, and lemon juice.
 
 
2 hours later…
@Miniman No, I can't. Then again, my PHB lists them in the weapon table =)
 
The sad part is, I know there are more tweets that I missed.
 
@Miniman I'd edit the SA compendium quote into your answer if you're seeing any sort of pushback. Twitter's for suckers =)
 
@nitsua60 I mean, I tried to do things properly and reference our canonical question, but that didn't go so well.
I didn't want to prove it in that answer because we already have that question, but what can you do I suppose.
Although, as it turns out, I misjudged the commenter - they know the truth of the matter, and were just pointing out that the answers on that question don't support it as well as they should.
 
12:49 PM
I think there might be two problems: (1) if one follows the link in your answer you get to a (correct) answer that starts with "unarmed strike isn't a weapon." If the reader is lazy and stops reading there, they' come to the opposite-of-right conclusion vis-a-vis your answer. (2) Even reading the full thing, I don' t think that's a very strong answer, and a closely-voted second answer describes it as very muddy waters.
 
So, fair complaint.
 
Yeah--that other question needs a rock-solid answer: "Yes. [SA Compendium blockquote]" That'd be much better.
If you post it, I'll upvote =)
 
@nitsua60 I guess I'll add that and link to it (I was typing that before you said you'd upvote it, I was even going to suggest you post it).
 
Nah, I'm working on other things. (All evidence to the contrary... =) )
 
@nitsua60 Thanks for the helpful suggestions!
 
1:15 PM
Glad they were... helpful =)
 
1:32 PM
0
Q: How should we use Community Wiki, Part III

mxyzplkIn the beginning, RPG.SE was Community Wiki crazy. We used it for everything. We have an old Meta question on what to use CW for. But then we realized list questions were bad and CW was being used as a dumping ground for bad questions. So now CW is anathema. Some hunt down and kill old CW questi...

 
 
1 hour later…
2:33 PM
After reading those questions on Community Wiki, the feature seems super pointless.
 
It seems like an idea that sounded better than it turned out to be.
 
Yeah.
I feel like, on a less tightly-moderated stack, it might be useful as a way to sweep poor questions and answers under the rug without deleting them, maybe, but it doesn't seem really useful here.
 
3:07 PM
I posted an answer to that effect.
 
3:48 PM
@DuckTapeAl Looks good to me. Nice writeup!
 
Thanks!
 
 
2 hours later…
5:48 PM
Hello, everyone!
In D&D 4E, if there's a ritual caster in your party, is there any reason at all to go for ritual scrolls rather than writing rituals into your ritual book? They seem to cost the same and have the same effect, but scrolls are used up after casting the ritual :/
 
That seems like an excellent question for Main. :P
I'll go grab my book.
 
I considered posting it, but I figured there must be something obvious I was missing!
 
It's totally kosher to post questions that seem obvious, as long as you've read the relevant section of the book and are still confused.
 
It came up in my last game, when the PC wizard specifically asked for ritual scrolls rather than for ritual books he could copy.
I did read through the ritual sections afterwards and still wondered what the point of scrolls was. Unless it's just for those rare parties without ritual casters (or with non-RC-PCs who also want to use rituals)?
 
I'd suggest asking that on main, with the extra context that your player is asking for scrolls instead of books.
Are they just buying the scrolls so they can copy them into their own books?
 
6:00 PM
No, they're just buying them to use them.
 
Huh. Weird.
 
But that's also impossible, right? You can't use ritual scrolls to copy into books?
"Limitation: Even though a ritual scroll lets you
perform a ritual, you can neither master a ritual from
a scroll nor copy a scroll into a ritual book."
 
Oh, yeah, that's true.
Sorry, my last three DMs did weird things with rituals, so I don't know the ritual rules as well as I should.
Maybe because it's slightly cheaper?
 
I've played 4e with another group for 5 years, and scrolls literally never came up once
 
Since you only have to pay the market price, and not market price + 50gp + the cost of performing the ritual?
 
6:06 PM
It isn't though. Market price and component cost is the same. That's the first thing I looked for :P
50gp?
 
"You can buy a ritual book
for 50 gp."
The book itself costs 50gp, plue the value of all the rituals in it.
 
Yes, but if you have the Ritual Caster feat, you also get a free Ritual Book. And then you don't need to buy additional books, since you can copy from other ritual books into your own (which is what you get for paying the market price).
 
Ah, I see. My DM that ran rituals as written ruled that you generally bought each ritual book separately.
 
otherwise you'd be running around with a huge stack of ritual books, each 128 pages long but with rituals on only about 5% of the pages
 
But the market price + cost of the ritual part still stands.
Oh, wait, derp.
 
6:10 PM
Yes, those two costs are the same no matter if it's a scroll or (copied from) a book
 
These rules are pretty scattered.
 
The only difference I could find with a quick search on the Compendium is that using a scroll takes half the time it takes to use Ritual Caster
 
I'll ask on main. Thanks for talking me through it though, it helped me get the rules straight ;)
@diego Yeah, but casting time genereally doesn't seem to be an issue when you're using rituals. You usually have enough time to cast it.
 
Might seem like an obvious thing, but have you asked them?
 
Anyone know if, in 5e, initiative counts as an ability check that's covered by the Bard's Jack of all Trades?
 
6:20 PM
It's possible that they have misunderstood the rules, and are going to be unplesantly surprised down the road.
@UrhoKarila Yes. Lemme find the link, we have a question on it.
 
34
Q: Does Bard's Jack of All Trades grant them greater initiative?

GMNoobBards get the ability "Jack of All Trades" which reads: Starting at 2nd level, you can add half your proficiency bonus, rounded down, to any ability check you make that doesn't already include your proficiency bonus. Since your initiative roll is based purely on your dexterity, and it sa...

 
34
Q: Does Bard's Jack of All Trades grant them greater initiative?

GMNoobBards get the ability "Jack of All Trades" which reads: Starting at 2nd level, you can add half your proficiency bonus, rounded down, to any ability check you make that doesn't already include your proficiency bonus. Since your initiative roll is based purely on your dexterity, and it sa...

Aww, beat me to it.
 
Neat
6
Q: Can you gain a proficiency bonus, without being proficient?

Patrick vDI'm asking with a particular eye on the Rogue's level 11 feature, "Reliable Talent": Reliable Talent By 11th level, you have refined your chosen skills until they approach perfection. Whenever you make an ability check that lets you add your proficiency bonus, you can treat a d20 roll of...

 
The more of Crawford's tweets I read, the less I think of him as a designer. :P
 
Seems like you can therefore get Reliable Talent working on initiative. This seems... strange?
 
6:22 PM
@DuckTapeAl Oh, it's because they don't know any better. Why they did it wasn't really the question, it was just that their actions made me realize I didn't know the difference myself.
 
@UrhoKarila It's super dumb.
@Ravn Ahh. We've had a few questions where a DM was like, "My players are doing something weird. What are they planning?", so I sort of assumed.
 
@DuckTapeAl I'm not sure I'd be ok with a player getting a worst-case of 17 on initiative, but I honestly think that the idea is kind of hilarious.
 
@UrhoKarila Why 17?
 
@DuckTapeAl Reliable Talent ensures that the worst-case base roll is a 10. +2 for half proficiency from Jack of all Trades, and +5 from DEX
 
@UrhoKarila ...why +2 for half proficiency?
Wouldn't it be a range from 1 to 3?
 
6:28 PM
@DuckTapeAl It should fall in there. At level 11, though, when RT kicks in and you can start adding proficiency to initiative, the proficiency bonus is +5. Dividing by 2, (I'm assuming truncation) yields a +2 as the half-proficiency bonus
 
@DuckTapeAl At Lvl 11 when the Rogue gets Reliable Talent their bonus is +2, it would get up to +3 eventually though
 
@diego Might be up to +5, depending on when they do their Bard dip, but the result's the same
 
I see. So, at level 11, they get the minimum 17. That makes sense.
It was the level assumption that I was confused about.
 
6:43 PM
whoa more than 1 active user
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith It happens
Occasionally
 
When I used to be on in the 7-9am EST range Itd be bumpin
but the times I can get on now a my new job in the late afternoon EST are rarely happening
 
7:10 PM
The effort I spent making the question post actually answered my question!

The four benefits to ritual scrolls:
1. Anyone can cast them; often irrelevant, but might be useful.
2. They require less time to cast; also pretty much irrelevant, since rituals are mostly done OOC anyway.
3. They don't need to be copied/mastered; this matters a lot to groups with very little downtime, since it takes 8-24 hours to do this.
4. They kind of make for better treasure drops; having one-offs drop rather than permanents is just a bit more exciting
 
8:00 PM
close votes
0
Q: Dangerous animals shadowrun havanna

dennis schützim leading soon a small adventure in shadowrun and I dont know much about havanna expect the current politcal situation. I have an idea but I need an dangerous animal of Havana for that. Ty.

 
 
3 hours later…
11:01 PM
On one hand, I like hitting the daily rep cap. It puts me one step closer to getting Epic, and it's a bunch of points.
On the other hand, I hate hitting the daily rep cap. I lose so many points!
 
hey there @DuckTapeAl
 
Hey, @Shalvenay.
 
how're things going?
 
Pretty fine.
Built a new computer earlier this week.
It's very shiny. :D
Yourself?
 
11:29 PM
nice :D doing alright here, wondering if you're still game for GMing GURPS sometime or another...
 

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