The Upper Room - 2013-03-13 (page 1 of 2)

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12:00 AM

-1

Q: Should we petition for a change to the way "Accepted" answers work on Christianity.SE?

On Stack Overflow, accepting an answer provides valuable feedback that a question has been answered. It completes the loop helping us distinguish a satisfied customer from someone who didn't get the information they were looking for. As Jeff says: The question owner is not required to accep...

discussion accepted-answer

The way a self-accepted answer works is just fine. See:

-5

Q: Can the Quran be considered authoritative when it references the life of Christ?

There is a lot of debate on this question. Many historians believe Quran does give a picture to the life of Christ. Quran and Islam recognizes Christ as the mighty prophet and revere him in the six articles of faith of Islam. With this in mind, can the Quran be used as an authoritative source o...

discussion meta

But why was this answer accepted?

2

A: Was Islam originally considered to be a Christian sect?

Yes, there were some people who considered Islam as a christian sect. Most notably saint John of Damascus, who calls Islam 'the heresy of Ishmaelites'. See also this thesis: John Damascene in Context (pdf). Today however I haven't seen any scholar that would think that classifying Islam as a ch...

12:24 AM

@JonEricson So you are actually only arguing that there is a style change not a function change. Perhaps the green check mark should be replaced with "[user's] selected answer"? I'm actually in favor of that for this site. But now it's an argument of which is first. I think it the selected answer is negative then it should be placed where the rating puts it. Usually at the bottom. It is is positive put it first unless a second answer out paces it by 5 votes then it is second to that one.

12:38 AM

@fredsbend Negatively voted accepted answers probably should be deleted to be honest. And yeah, it's mostly a style change. The reputation bonus is fine as far as I'm concerned.

1:32 AM

@El'endiaStarman. What's up with Girl Genius?

El'endia Starman

2:21 AM

@TRiG Ooohoohoo...

5 hours later…

7:41 AM

@JonEricson But would this actually help any new users? That is the real question.

@fredsbend What a fortune! Earning points from the same answer in 3 different places? Hah. I'm Jealous. :)

8:03 AM

@Mawia I suppose I could have been a bit more honest and voted to close at least one of them. But I sure do like that rep. Yeah. I blame the rep. The rep made me do it. lol

2

Q: Is illegal downloading a sin?

There are several places where the Bible says that stealing is a sin. Exodus 20,15 (KJV) Thou shalt not steal. But is downloading software content like games, music, or films illegally (i.e. you don't pay for it while you should) a sin too? Does it count as stealing? Can we tell exactly t...

bible sin ten-commandments

@caleb Considering that you contribute to open software what is your take on this issue?

@Mawia Only 80 rep total. Not a full reaping but pretty good. My highest on one answer in one place is only 50.

1 hour later…

9:10 AM

0

Q: What might be an appropriate term for a long-term, very serious, girlfriend?

In the USA, where I live, it is becoming increasingly common that men and women are making committed relationship decisions, but choosing to remain unmarried. However, they live together, raise children together, and otherwise appear married. They are simply not legally married and they are okay ...

word-choice word-usage

@TRiG Let's see what we can come up with.

9:37 AM

what is a community wiki?

9:49 AM

2

Q: Is modern technology part of the Divine Intention?

These days we have very advanced technologies which our forefathers could not have think of. Are the discoveries and inventions part of the Divine Plan or Intention? Genesis 1:28 (NIV) God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rul...

@fredsbend I came up with this weird idea. Any opinion?

10:00 AM

Already 2 close votes. Will be closed soon. I myself might even vote to close.

@Mawia I'm composing something now. Mostly opinion though.

10:42 AM

@fredsbend Whew.. that one is long. Good though.

@Mawia Thanks. Gotta sleep now. Almost 4am. Bye.

@fredsbend Bye

11:41 AM

@El'endiaStarman That's because a whole bunch of my early questions were bad questions! I have been getting some oldies cleaned up. At the rate of about 1 per week :)

@fredsbend We actually have several real experts in that area, but it's nice to see another. I'm glad to see somebody that actually answers a question rather than just linking too. I added a link for them in this case because I think it's helpful, but it's nice to know that wasn't the OP's first priority.

@fredsbend A bunch of my early questions were "truth" questions. Those turned out to be problematic, and are still problematic to accept answers on. I wouldn't worry about that though on anybodies questions. If you provide good accurate helpful sourced answers, you will get upvotes from me and many others no matter whether the OP accepts them or not.

@JonEricson Because the OP thought it was saying something it wasn't. He near-sightedly read it as support for his cause in the same way that he is willing to take statements blatantly out of context and hijack them as "evidence" for whatever point he wants to make.

Hilariously, even the OP of that answer thought the other one was better and put a bounty on it!

@fredsbend As a community, you guys can actually delete answers. Depending on their vote levels, you might need higher privs to cast delete votes. If questions come up with truly problematic accepts, contact a mod and we can intervene. In the mean time i wouldn't worry about it too much. The biggest issue is self-accepts and those already sort by votes anyway.

@fredsbend I'm not sure about the connection to OSS, but as far as that question goes I think it is easier as a Christian to decide what to do/not do by looking at it from a "follow the law of the land" perspective rather than a "though shalt not steal" perspective. The latter is harder to define when it comes to digital rights, but the former is usually clear enough to follow with a good conciseness.

What to do/not do as an individual Christian is also quite different from what you might feel is best for society. You could for example petition loudly for a change in digital rights laws that made certain things legal that aren't now, but until your change is enacted, you don't have the freedom to do something against the law just because you don't agree with the current law.

12:24 PM

user image

istherewhitesmoke.com

(J/K thanks firebug)

12:43 PM

@PeterTurner nice

@Caleb not sure they can delete accepted answers regardless of vote status (I know the OP cannot delete it)

and 4k (soon to be 20k) is the minimum to delete answers.

3 hours later…

3:45 PM

anyone have thoughts on how to reboot the blog before I post on meta? I think a format change (at least for a bit) has been suggested. Anyone have thoughts?

4:13 PM

Would this be an ok time to ask for help formulating a question? (I don't want to interrupt a blog discussion.)

@MonicaCellio definitely

the blog discussion can move to the blog room if people actually want to talk about it :)

@waxeagle oh, you have a blog room? Cool. Didn't want to derail the conversation you were trying to start here, is all.

@MonicaCellio yep -> chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/2567/eschewmenical-blog-room

no worries and SE chat actually does multiple discussions simultaneously reasonable well :)

So hi. I'm new to your site and not a Christian. I'd like help formulating a question of the "what does Christianity say about X" form. I see questions on your site that do that without getting more specific, but they're older questions. Your FAQ seems to call for naming a denomination. Do I need to, and how specific do I need to be? (e.g. is "Protestant" specific enough? I know there's a whole bunch of subgroups under there.)

@MonicaCellio more specificity than top level divisions would certainly be preferred, but obviously that is sometimes a burden on the OP (We don't necessarily expect folks to understand the finer points of the differences between baptists and Presbyterians). And a lot of times a large group like Protestants or Catholics are in agreement on big issues...

any chance you'd be willing to share the specific question you want to ask?

4:25 PM

@waxeagle Sure. Here's my currernt draft:

How should one reconcile a wrong against another person?

When someone commits a wrong against another person, what is he supposed to do to make things right? Is seeking forgiveness from God sufficient, or do you first need to set things right with the other person? If the latter, what are you obligated to do -- apologize, make amends (what kinds), something else?

Does the answer depend on the type of damage done? For example, is gossip different from property damage, or injury?

Does the answer depend on who was wronged? Is the obligation to a fellow Christian different than one to a …

I found related questions (like this), but nothing that answers this. I might need better search criteria, of course.

@MonicaCellio I think you could ask that just like you wrote it and have a pretty good question. (TBH I'd hope the answers on that don't vary widely)

@fredsbend Are you answering questions for the extra 15 points you get for an accepted answer? I'm just suggesting you answer the question. I'm not asking you to share your feelings of "disenchantment" with the fact that you think I won't accept your question. Maybe I won't. I'm just making the suggestion because I don't want to have a discussion with you in the comments of someone else's answer, where you "paraphrase that famous bard" and where I have to point out the meaning of "semantics"

1

Q: Forgiveness: differences between christian and jewish traditions

What are the main differences (if any) between the understanding of forgiveness in the christian and jewish traditions? In Matthew 5:23 Jesus tells his audience that going to ask for forgiveness is (also) the responsibility of the offender. And in Matthew 18:15-17 the recommendation is (in the r...

@waxeagle ok, thanks! I didn't want to run afoul of what I thought the FAQ was saying.

@El'endiaStarman I don't find it a valid objection. Scanning through my questions now, I don't actually think most of them have a good, clear answer. In a number of them, my own answer is in the top spot. It's up to me which answers I accept and when I decide to go back and accept them.

4:39 PM

@TRiG yeah, Mi Yodeya isn't really set up for comparative-religion questions. I have a good handle on the Jewish perspective and I have the impression that the Christian one(s) is(are) different.

Wow, I have a reason to create an account on C.SE. :-)

@MonicaCellio :) by the way comparative religion would be fantastic as a blog series :). If y'all and the islam folks wanted to participate we could do some interesting stuff with our typical blog format (where we evaluate a variety of christian perspectives on an issue)

@waxeagle interesting idea! Got a link handy for some of your posts like that?

2

A: What topics should we run on the Eschewmenical blog?

Suggestions: A collaboration with Jewish L&U on different approaches to the same text. If/When Islam goes live, another similar post. The Bible as story. Religion: Community, belief, and tribalism. Male and Female: but some don't fit in those boxes. These are all subjects I might be inter...

None of these have actually happened yet.

@MonicaCellio trying to find one with an intro post that's actually been curated properly

grr I haven't done the intro posts properly in ages...

here's a page with 3/4 christianity.blogoverflow.com/tag/salvation

@waxeagle thanks!

4:53 PM

and I'm retagging the others in that series so they show up on that tag

@waxeagle Shouldn't the intro post itself also have the tag, and shouldn't there also be a tag for all your intro posts?

subject-introduction

@TRiG yes on both counts. I should really do a fair amount of updating on tags and intros both.

@waxeagle Isn't it nice to have something to do?

@TRiG yes, unfortunately that's on the priority list below work and about 10 other things :)

@waxeagle Meanwhile, I'm looking for a crash course in svn branching. I really should be doing that.

4:57 PM

@TRiG no svn here so I'm not help.

@TRiG svn copy trunk branch_x, cd branch_x, do stuff, commit, cd .., svn merge branch_x trunk

@Caleb Waaaah. Why are we using subversion 1.4.6?

@TRiG Oh lovely. For that you are going to need some outside tools to save your sanity. There is a python script for doing merges in old versions of subversion that works ok. It keeps data about merged revisions in svn:props.

@Caleb Methinks I'll be doing some updates.

@MonicaCellio that whole series is now tagged salvation so that page I linked should show them all (the intro post will be the oldest one...)

5:07 PM

@TRiG Updating your DB and toolset is WAY easier than learning to merge branches in older svn versions. It's still a lot of work, but if you have that option, take it.

@Caleb Well, I'm the only person doing development work here, so I'm in full control of the dev server, so I may as well.

El'endia Starman

@TRiG POWERRR...UNLIMITED POWERRRR!!! ... At least, until your boss fires you.

@El'endiaStarman yum check-update | less outputs a couple of pages of available updates, but doesn't include an update to subversion. Bother.

@El'endiaStarman Oh, and Girl Genius is back.

El'endia Starman

@TRiG Oh-ho, this is gonna be fun...

@El'endiaStarman A sick joke indeed!

El'endia Starman

5:17 PM

@TRiG And the Baron doesn't get it because it's...illogical. Somewhat. He would never think that the castle was doing that just to give a particular girl a chance to watch her crush fight. :P

@El'endiaStarman Yup! To be fair, he isn't in possession of all the relevant information, so even his powers of deduction aren't quite up to the task.

I've actually forgotten where Tarvek is at the moment. Must backtrack and reread.

El'endia Starman

This has almost certainly been posted in some chat room already, but check the alt-text:

StackSort connects to StackOverflow, searches for 'sort a list', and downloads and runs code snippets until the list is sorted.

@TRiG Tarvek is somewhere in the castle, I think. Maybe.

5:35 PM

@TRiG If you are in full control of the dev environment, why are you even using subversion. Sure 1.6+ make branching 1/2 way sane, but do you have a reason not to be using git?

@waxeagle yay, thanks! (And hey, we got a segue back to the blog discussion. :-) )

@TRiG That means you are using a dumb distro that uses fixed release trees instead of rolling. And you're semi-stuck with the versions of things that were current when the distro release was rolled.

Although subversion is probably one you can tap into a newer tree and just use anyway.

@Caleb Fedora. I didn't set this thing up.

@TRiG Must be quite old then. 13? 14?

(The chap who did has left. And before that, we weren't using source control at all.)

5:39 PM

@TRiG Well the chap did something right then.

Almost any version control is better than none.

(Have I mentioned I learned everything on the job, with no formal training, so my knowledge base is full of weird holes?)

@Caleb cat /etc/fedora-release Fedora release 9 (Sulphur)

^^

Yikes.

Apparently, when he took it out of his attic and brought it in here to use as a dev server, he didn't do any updates first.

Hello @msh210.

@TRiG Ouch.

Sorry dude.

@TRiG Oh, hi. I'm not really here.

@Caleb Meh. Back up all our code in a tarball, wipe and reinstall, install git, put our code back. And use git henceforth. That would probably do it. Getting the svn history into git would be tricky, but probably unnecessary (I rarely refer to it).

@msh210 Your icon keeps coming and going.

@msh210 Jedi mind trick! ;)

5:50 PM

@TRiG Actually it's not too hard to do an svndump of the whole db, then use a git import script to replay the whole thing into a git repository so you keep the history.

@Caleb Right. Time to compose an e-mail to my boss, methinks.

@TRiG Ending up on git would be great and if you're the only one using it and it doesn't have any interface (bug tracker, hook scripts, etc) that hook into the repo it should be an easy switch, only your workflow would change. If you do need to keep to subversion to interface with something, having a new version is going to make your workflow a lot easier in the long run.

@Caleb Bug tracker? Really? In this office?

I've done branching for years on 1.4 and even knowing the ins and outs it's a touch and go affair.

@TRiG Sorry. I use fire up a repo and a tracker before I lift a finger to do any work on anything, even if I'm the only one that ever touches it.

@Caleb Well, I know why and you know why, but does Joe Google know why?

5:58 PM

@Caleb What I want is to produce a version of our CMS which will be slightly different. Any update which goes into the standard one should be copied through to the customised one, but nothing will go back. It's a branch which should pull updates from the trunk, but never merge its own updates back. I'm sure this is possible with our current setup, but I'd probably end up doing it by hand. (We were talking about upgrading anyway.)

@JonEricson No, almost certainly not.

@TRiG Either subversion or git can handle that, it's a pretty standard branch scenario. But making it happen in svn 1.4 or before you either have to manually diff and patch the branch with changesets from main (or use a script that handles this for you). svn 1.6+ or any version of git will handle this pretty much without a hickup, git having more sophisticated tools to deal with merge conflicts if the forks start to diverge a lot.

@Caleb Well, yeah. I'd like to start using branching and merging a lot more anyway, so I can avoid ever leaving trunk in a non-working state. And I believe git and/or mercurial might be the best bet for that.

@TRiG That's a good plan, and you are correct.

WHITE

El'endia Starman

@Alypius RED!

6:07 PM

I still use subversion for a lot of projects, but it's more to tie into other (legacy) tools that I'm not always in control of, and the reasons are quickly dwindling. If you're going to start a new workflow for yourself and make branching a regular part of that (great idea) then just learning on git in the first place is better. Its more adept.

The concepts are slightly different, if you are going to teach yourself one you will be better off for knowing git's branching workflow.

@Caleb trying to talk my boss into introducing branching, we recently had chunks of our software go nearly two years being held hostage by a design change we couldn't get approved.

@El'endiaStarman BLUE

mauve.

@waxeagle Just had to be different

@fredsbend meh those colors were so primary and all caps....

El'endia Starman

6:10 PM

@fredsbend I was actually considering replying with 'OCHRE'...

@El'endiaStarman I was hoping for AMERICA to stand out. lol

El'endia Starman

@fredsbend You mean 'MURICA!

@El'endiaStarman rofl

HABEMUS PAPAM!

6

@PeterTurner that was fast

I figured with no front runner it would be a week or more.

El'endia Starman

6:14 PM

@PeterTurner WHAT.

@waxeagle Same number of ballots as Pope Benedict I think (pundits, who needs em)

@PeterTurner 4-5 votes?

El'endia Starman

Who is it?

@El'endiaStarman I don't think its been announced yet.

all we have is the guardian reporting white smoke from the chapel.

QUOD EST PAPAM?

6:16 PM

@PeterTurner Semper ubi sub ubi.

huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13/…

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle Their servers are probably on their way to being overloaded.

Guardian liveblog

Amazing how much darker it is just a few degrees further south and east of me.

Announcement.

El'endia Starman

@TRiG Yeah, I was a bit surprised too until I remembered that they're several hours ahead of me.

@El'endiaStarman They don't really have twilight that far south. It goes dark a lot faster than it does up here.

(Not that we really have much twilight yet, this time of year, either.)

I heard some announcement in Italian earlier, but I don't know what it was. Just crowd noises now.

El'endia Starman

6:27 PM

Watching both video streams simultaneously. I love college internet. :P

@El'endiaStarman You just be quiet about that. I'm running 1.5 Mbit over microwave. Far from ideal and I am sore about it.

El'endia Starman

@fredsbend [wince] Sorry. >.>

St Peter's Square wasn't quite that crowded when I was there.

El'endia Starman

It's really bad English: We "hab 'em us (a) Papa--mm?". j/k — Narnian 2 mins ago

@fredsbend ouch, that might be worse than I have it at home (756k DSL)

6:29 PM

@El'endiaStarman Well, i'm in the country, so I guess I could say the view is worth it ... almost.

@fredsbend only if you've managed to see Pan-Starrs

Anyone want to place any last-second bets?

Burke FTW. We need a Pope from Wisconsin.

@waxeagle Well I also get 1.5 up which is really nice for work stuff. The ping is pretty bad. Snow and heavy rain slow it to a crawl.

El'endia Starman

For a moment, both of them were focused on the same woman. :P

6:31 PM

@TRiG Dolan (but only if I get 100-1)

@TRiG My money is still on Father Dougal McGuire

@fredsbend We live in hope!

El'endia Starman

NBC is about 10-15 seconds behind the Guardian. Interesting.

@El'endiaStarman gotta have time to bleep the swear words :P

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle Hehe, yes. Although I thought that was 5 seconds. At least, that's what it was after the "wardrobe malfunction" at the Superbowl several years ago...

6:35 PM

@El'endiaStarman The Guardian is using ustream, while I think NBC has a home-grown solution.

did anyone post odds that benedict gets reelected ;)

@El'endiaStarman I could be just cuz it's NBC they seem to do everything a little less than par.

Interesting to see a US TV station and a British newspaper directly competing for live news coverage from Italy. Ain't the Internet wonderful?

@TRiG truly

El'endia Starman

@TRiG I think they actually use some of the same video feeds.

6:41 PM

Conductor it Italian military police band has an awesome red wig.

Perhaps it's actually a plume, but it looks like a wig from the back.

Whatever feed the Guardian is using, it's one that's visible on a screen in the Square. Whenever it focuses on a crowd-member, they wave and cheer.

0

Q: Who is the new Pope?

It's March 13 2013. White smoke has risen from a Vatican chimney. A crowd of cheering people is waiting for the announcement of "Habemus Papam". Who is the new Pope?

El'endia Starman

@TRiG Yeah, I've noticed that. I've seen that happen on the NBC stream as well, so I think there's a set of video cameras that they both have access to.

#Vatican knows how to do suspense #news #pope

Tweeted by john_hooper on March 13, 2013 at 6:38 PM

duel?

@Alypius Why "off-topic"? Surely this is a perfect example of "too localized"!

6:46 PM

too localized? you have got to be kidding :)

@Alypius Localised in time.

@Alypius too localized in timeframe. in like 10 minutes that's 2 seconds in wikipedia.

Roughly how long till an actual announcement?

No. It's asking for information about the new pope. Reopen.

@TRiG should be any minute. usually about 30 minutes after smoke and it's been 40

6:47 PM

@waxeagle christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/14924/…

and pope appears about an hour...

El'endia Starman

> Why do they always have a Papal Conclave, never a Papal Convlex? - Phinla

> We're gonna have to wait about an hour to answer this question, and then to be closed.

@waxeagle The pope is going to be around for a while even after his announcement.

@El'endiaStarman Yeah.

Crowd shouting, "Viva il Papa" for a Pope they don't know yet.

Tweeted by CatholicNewsSvc on March 13, 2013 at 6:46 PM

6:48 PM

@Alypius But his identity won't be a mystery then.

At which point I will ask "who is the new pope", expecting to be answered with "the new pope is ... here is a bunch of info about him"

@BruceAlderman The Pope's true identity is always a mystery.

El'endia Starman

@TRiG It'd be pretty tragic if the Pope was assassinated shortly after his appearance. Speaking of which, the security there must be on-par with the swearing-in of U.S. Presidents and other nation leaders.

@Alypius You can ask about the new pope, but your question was simply an identify this person who isn't even announced yet.

@TRiG lol

6:51 PM

@fredsbend There's a certain amount of truth to the statement.

Getting dark here too now.

@Alypius I think wikipedia would cover that well

Within only a few days

@TRiG esp depending on who you ask

El'endia Starman

@fredsbend I expect the Wikipedia article to be complete within a matter of hours.

@El'endiaStarman If that long.

@fredsbend they probably already do.

@waxeagle No, it's not. I want to know about the pope, whoever it will be.

6:53 PM

@Alypius Well you are just gonna have to wait cuz no one knows who he is. Then when we do the question suddenly becomes off topic.

@Alypius What do we know about him? Why ask us?

@Alypius right, but "who is the new pope?" is either a sentence or a book.

@Alypius Stack Exchange is just not the right forum for that information.

Camera focuses in on an empty balcony.

@TRiG suspensful music ...

6:54 PM

@fredsbend It was at roughly this point that one of our heroes sustained a bruise to the upper arm.

Guardian says,

> Vatican TV keeps zooming in for close-ups on the balcony.

El'endia Starman

@TRiG That sounds REALLY familiar.

Which suggests that's the feed they're using.

@El'endiaStarman Nuclear-armed missiles above Magarathea.

El'endia Starman

That'd make perfect sense.

@TRiG ....nope, that doesn't sound familiar. :(

@El'endiaStarman don't panic

@El'endiaStarman It's a complicated joke about suspense in narrative fiction from the original radio series.

El'endia Starman

6:56 PM

@waxeagle Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. That was actually my suspicion.

@El'endiaStarman but I got it on the second reference not the first, I haven't heard the radio series

@waxeagle The radio series was the best. You have to listen to each episode entirely, because there's usually an extra joke hidden away after the credits.

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle I'm not sure how to explain it, but TRiG's reference had such a feel of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, and then I didn't recognize the second reference.

@El'endiaStarman lol nice.

To make it more appropriate for this room, should they be nuclear-armed missals?

6:59 PM

So who is the new pope?

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle And I've never read the book, nor heard the radio series, and it's been many years since I saw the movie. I probably got it either from internet-culture osmosis (of which there wasn't much) or from having read another of Hodstafer's books: Godel, Escher, Bach: The Eternal Golden Braid.

I'm pretty sure that "who is the 265th pope" is an on-topic question. Just because it can be answered in a sentence or in a book doesn't mean that it should be answered that way. You just give the relevant facts about Pope Benedict XVI from a Christian perspective.

El'endia Starman

@Washu Waiting on the announcement. Should be any minute now.

@El'endiaStarman mandatory. summer. reading.

El'endia Starman

guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/13/…

nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/51133846#51133846

Those are two video feeds of the same event. Guardian is consistent, though jerky at times, and has a live comment/blog feed. NBC is higher-quality, but isn't always streaming, and is 15 seconds behind.

7:01 PM

@El'endiaStarman I've not read Hodstafer. Should do.

Should I just re-post with "Who is the 266th Pope"?

But I went to Dublin last weekend, and visited a friend who took me on a tour of bookshops. I spent about €60.

El'endia Starman

...I just saw one of the TV screens on the NBC stream, and it was the same as the Guardian had been several seconds prior.

@Alypius no.

@Alypius if you'd like to know specific things about the Pope that might not be TL. But asking a general who is is either asking for a single sentence or an entire book, neither of which are considered constructive

El'endia Starman

@Alypius, this site is run by the community. At present, the community is against you. I suggest not trying to get everything you want the way you want it.

7:05 PM

@waxeagle Yes, I just addressed that. See the above comment.

Guardian liveblog: "Here's a gallery of pictures from St Peter's Square today." And the title on the page itself: "Crowds celebrate new Catholic pontiff in St. Mark's square - in pictures"

@Alypius that wouldn't be constructive either.

So which square is it?

El'endia Starman

@TRiG Oops.

(for what it's worth, I disagree with Mason on the close reason, I agree with the close though).

7:06 PM

@Alypius What's the point? You won't get any better--or quicker--information from C.SE than you can get from the Guardian stream. If you're asking for specific information about the man, you'll have to wait until after the announcement.

it's not an issue of topicality, it's an issue of constructiveness at this point

@waxeagle FWIW, I voted "too localized".

El'endia Starman

Light's on, people moving behind curtain.

DOUGAL! DOUGAL!

@BruceAlderman that I agree with

7:10 PM

@El'endiaStarman You shouldn't frame the community as being "against" particular individuals. If someone disagrees with others or doesn't understand why something might be appropriate and something else not, that doesn't exclude them.

@Alypius Against you on this issue.

@Alypius by the way, if you want to dispute the close/delete meta is the place to do so. And please feel free to bring it up there.

because then you can get eyes from outside the small group that's here in chat (who happened to be the primary actors on your question)

@waxeagle no plans to do so

El'endia Starman

@Alypius Well, you've got Narnian, waxeagle, Mason Wheeler, Bruce Alderman, and Jon Ericson, at least, who are disagreeing with you. Like TRiG said, on this particular issue. They are all regulars who have been here for 12-18 months, and you've been here for 1.

Curtains open!

doors open!

7:13 PM

> It’s Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, Argentina.

El'endia Starman

> It’s Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, Argentina.

wow

And perfect time for a Ustream ad-break.

> It's a shock decision: Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires. He is the first Jesuit pope of all time.

the NBC feed froze for me as soon as he said we have a pope

Did I hear: qui sibi nomen imposuit Franciscum ?

7:14 PM

@TRiG first new world pope as well IIRC

Jorge Mario Bergoglio, SJ (born December 17, 1936) is an Argentine cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church. He has served as the Archbishop of Buenos Aires since 1998. He was elevated to the cardinalate in 2001. Early life Jorge Bergoglio was born in Buenos Aires, one of the five children of an Italian railway worker and his wife. After studying at the seminary in Villa Devoto, he entered the Society of Jesus on March 11, 1958. Bergoglio obtained a licentiate in philosophy from the Colegio Máximo San José in San Miguel, and then taught literature and psychology at the Colegio de la Inmacu...

@BruceAlderman Good grief that's fast.

@BruceAlderman Boom!

El'endia Starman

I got the 'Francis' part right! Woo! :P

@TRiG en.wikipedia.org/w/…

The page had been around for some time, they just changed the title.

@El'endiaStarman Great choice. I can't believe it hasn't been taken already.

7:16 PM

> Papacy began 28 February 1998

@El'endiaStarman Since the title change, there have been nine other edit actions on the page.

@JonEricson I'm a bit stunned myself

@waxeagle That's been fixed. But the "Catholic Church titles" table at the bottom still shows "Archbishop of Buenos Aires 1998-present".

Does he lose that title?

yes

@JonEricson I'd imagine he will appoint a new Archbishop for the archdiocese but I'm not sure

7:19 PM

@JonEricson I assume he can't be simultaneously bishop of two discontinuous sees.

he has become the Bishop of Rome

Rocco Palmo (Whispers in the Loggia) speculates: By choosing the name of the founder of his community's traditional rivals, the 266th Roman pontiff – the first from the American continent – has signaled two things: his desire to be a force of unity, and his intent to "repair God's house, which has fallen into ruin"... that is, to rebuild the church.

@JamesT That's some quick speculation.

in English Language & Usage, 32 secs ago, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@simchona meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

El'endia Starman

There he is!

But are Franciscans going to appreciate a Jesuit pope taking their namesake for his papal name?

7:23 PM

I like it. It reminds me of the bit in Dante's Paradiso with Francis and Dominic saying nice things about each other's orders.

@TRiG lmao.

@TRiG at :13

@El'endiaStarman I'm curious whether the answer on your J.SE Q is the sort of thing you were looking for.

My guess is that in taking the name Francis, he is going to be a liberation theologian - focusing on the poor and against any institutions...

El'endia Starman

@msh210 It does answer my question. I personally wouldn't have to worry about being invited beforehand because this is on a college campus in a public room.

@AffableGeek (I read that as "libation".)

7:33 PM

Being an Episcopalian now (was a Baptist) I have no problem with libation theology...

@AffableGeek This makes sense considering he is from Argentina.

@AffableGeek That sounds like a big jump. Why did you make the change?

@El'endiaStarman ok, good to know. I didn't know if you wanted focus on the technical aspects of whether you could attend (which is what I dealt with mostly) or with what to do / talk about or with "is it socially acceptable" or other things. I tried to include what I could, but thought I might have left perspectives out. (And maybe I have, and maybe other answers will fill in the gaps.)

As a Baptist pastor, I felt like the Baptist church places way too much emphasis on the sermon geenrally and the pastor specifically. I wanted more liturgy, less emphasis on me, and more on Christ

And who knows, one of these days, I might want to try out those libations... :)

@AffableGeek I can see that in Baptist culture. Especially in the South. "He is not the pastor; he is my Pastor."

My observation is that Baptist is very 'preach it' oriented and Episcopal is 'teach it' oriented. You agree @Affable ?

El'endia Starman

@msh210 I am waiting because of the possibility of other answers.

7:46 PM

@El'endiaStarman waiting for what, because of that possibility?

@El'endiaStarman, out of curiosity, and (obviously) if you don't mind divulging it, what college are you at?

El'endia Starman

@msh210 Not accepting an answer for some time in case someone else comes up with a better answer. Yours is pretty good, but I'm not going to rule out a better answer.

@msh210 Rochester Institute of Technology! Woo! :P

@El'endiaStarman Oh, for sure.

@El'endiaStarman oh cool. I've heard of that... it's said to be a good school, no?

(checks Wikipedia...)

El'endia Starman

@msh210 Aye, it is. It also has NTID (National Technical Institute for the Deaf), which is the second largest college specifically for deaf/Deaf students (second only to Gallaudet).

@El'endiaStarman Right, of course. That's why I've heard of it.

(Learned about it in a long-ago ASL class.)

New World Pope! Cue the Rush music!

El'endia Starman

7:52 PM

@msh210 Ah, sweet! Have you also heard that I myself am deaf? (studiohack is also deaf.)

@El'endiaStarman I saw that somewhere, yeah.

On C.SE's blog I think.

El'endia Starman

@msh210 I don't exactly make a secret of it...

I don't think I knew studiohack's deaf.

I'm hearing (for what it's worth, which isn't much).

El'endia Starman

@msh210 Hehe. studiohack and I are the only two deaf moderators that I know of.

And amusingly enough, we have a mutual friend that is a student at RIT. :P

@El'endiaStarman Yeah, well, OTINKYAD. There could be dozens. (Not likely, I admit.)

@El'endiaStarman oh, funny, small world

7:58 PM

@PeterTurner Maybe it's just the conspirator in me but that kind of scares me. The title I mean.

@fredsbend New World Order Pope?

Rush is totally awesome though.

@msh210 Kinda what I'm thinking, yeah.

That was a headline I read somewhere a second ago, made me think of the Rush Song.

El'endia Starman

Alright, now I gotta go. Got an errand (that I may or may not do) and a class.

Talk to you guys later!

ciao

8:01 PM

@PeterTurner "New World Man." Pretty good. "Tom Sawyer" is leaps and bounds better. In making you think I mean.

El'endia Starman

@fredsbend "Tom Sawyer"...is that the same Tom as Peeping Tom? (punpunpunpun...)

@El'endiaStarman Well, since Tom Sawyer lived on the Mississippi, and Peeping Tom lived in Coventry, I doubt it.

He's got to make his own mistakes
and learn to mend the mess he makes
He's old enough to know what's right
and young enough not to choose it
He's noble enough to win the world
but weak enough to lose it

I really do hope the new pope is not this at all @PeterTurner

> Oh, the parodies that can now be sung... 'Please pray for me, Argentina...'?

Dmitri Gheorgheni, h2g2

8:51 PM

@Alypius The rep is just a fun benefit. Being selected is better; it lets you know that you and the OP see eye to eye. I intend to answer your question to your satisfaction. That is what makes me happy. The issue is that you never quite seem satisfied with the answers; there's just always something wrong with them in your mind. This makes me think you are stingy with the upvotes too, but that's a small issue.

I commented on someone else's answer not your question. The comment was meant for them, me thinking that the answer could be better. I'm just gonna give it to you straight. You come off as very arrogant and that is very off-putting.

@fredsbend I definately agree that Baptists are preach-oriented. I'd argue that Episcopalians are more "be" oriented meaning its more about the attitude one has while there. Both have their metits.

merits

@MonicaCellio On the night before his crucifixion, Jesus took his disciples to an "upper room" in Jerusalem, and celebrated the Passover. From that, we Christians have our communion / eucharist

9:08 PM

@AffableGeek Oddly, I had a song from that show stuck in my head earlier today. I forget, now, which song it was. Not that one. May have been Dance for Eva and Ché.

(Bah! It's certainly stuck in my head now!)

9:25 PM

@El'endiaStarman :-) Some years ago I visited Hebrew College in Boston (as a potential student), and one of the first-year students I met was deaf. This led all her classmates to learn ASL. It was really cool to see them all talking, instead of her being left out in the cold! A good community must make a huge difference.

10:00 PM

0

Q: Greeting card messages

...for when you can't think of what to say. Sometimes we get questions and answers from new users, and I don't know what to say to greet them nicely while also providing advice or criticism. Narnian seems to do a swell job of providing these: say more Welcome to the site. This appears to be th...

10:16 PM

what does this mean?: "Suggested edits are not allowed on non-tag-wiki posts on meta sites"

Apparently it is by design. I think that should change.

38

Q: Why can't I suggest edits on SE meta sites?

Right as I was going to post this as a possible bug, I finally found this post which says that per-site Metas don't have suggested edits by-design because it's "not needed". However, I've been participating a lot over at Skeptics meta where there is a lot still to be figured out in terms of site...

discussion suggested-edits per-site-meta

10:42 PM

@fredsbend Think of it as an incentive to gain the "edit" privilege. ;)

But it's odd that there is a suggested edit queue for meta.

@fredsbend Meta posts quite often are meant to reflect the personal opinion of the author. Whether they are well written, formatted or correct is usually beside the point. It is rare that editing other people's posts on meta is as constructive as it is on main. For those rare times, there is the CW option.

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